Sleep Issues as a Mom, & Keto, Fat Loss, & Genetics

Podcast Episode #381: Sleep Issues as a Mom, and Keto, Fat Loss, & Genetics

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Sleep Issues as a Mom, & Keto, Fat Loss, & GeneticsTopics

  1. News and updates from Diane & Liz [2:03]
    1. Keto Quick Start released
    2. Tour stops
    3. Balanced Bites Spices
    4. Balanced Bites Meals
    5. Liz and the croup
  2. What we ate for dinner [8:51]
  3. Keto, fat loss, and genetics [13:21]
  4. Being a mom and sleep issues [25:20]
  5. Something new that I'm digging [36:21]

Balanced Bites Master Class

The Best Fat Intake For The Top 3 Genotypes: Which Are You?

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Sleep Issues as a Mom, & Keto, Fat Loss, & Genetics Sleep Issues as a Mom, & Keto, Fat Loss, & Genetics Sleep Issues as a Mom, & Keto, Fat Loss, & Genetics

You’re listening to the Balanced Bites podcast episode 381.

Diane Sanfilippo: Welcome to the Balanced Bites podcast. I’m Diane; a certified nutrition consultant, and the New York Times bestselling author of Practical Paleo and the 21-Day Sugar Detox. My newest book, Keto Quick Start, just released on January 1; wohoo! I live in San Francisco with my husband and fur kids.

Liz Wolfe: I’m Liz; a nutritional therapy practitioner, and author of the Wall Street Journal bestseller Eat the Yolks; The Purely Primal Skincare Guide; and the online program Baby Making and Beyond. I live on a lake in the mystical land of the Midwest, outside of Kansas City. And I am super excited that Diane’s book just came out!

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} I’m like, why is she so chipper today?

Liz Wolfe: So excited! We’re the co-creators of the Balanced Bites Master Class, and we’ve been bringing you this award-winning podcast for more than 7 years. We’re here to share our take on modern healthy living, answer your questions, and chat with leading health and wellness experts. Enjoy this week’s episode, and submit your questions at or watch the Balanced Bites podcast Instagram account for our weekly calls for questions. You can ask us anything in the comments.

Remember our disclaimer: The materials and content within this podcast are intended as general information only, and are not to be considered a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Before we get started, let’s hear from one of our sponsors.

Liz Wolfe: Today’s podcast is sponsored by Vital Choice wild seafood and organics. America’s leading purveyor of premium, sustainable seafood and grass-fed meats, and a certified B corporation. Their popular Vital Box program delivers top customer favorites directly to your door. Any mix of wild salmon, fish, and shellfish that you prefer. Vital Choice offers a wide range of wild seafood; from top shelf Alaskan salmon and halibut, to Portuguese sardines and mackerel. Plus, mouthwatering grass-fed meats and poultry. Be sure to save 15% on one regular order with the promo code BBPODCAST or get $15 off your first Vital Box with the promocode BBVITALBOX.

1. News and updates from Diane & Liz [2:03]

Liz Wolfe: Ok, so Diane. What’s happening over there?

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: I got a nice little present in the mail from the publisher.

Diane Sanfilippo: Woop-woop!

Liz Wolfe: A little book called Keto Quick Start.

Diane Sanfilippo: I mean, it’s not that little.

Liz Wolfe: It’s big.

Diane Sanfilippo: It’s kind of big.

Liz Wolfe: It’s quite large. Quite comprehensive.

Diane Sanfilippo: It was called Keto Quick Start, and I was told I could write a small book. And then I realized…

Liz Wolfe: {laughs} This should just be keto. Keto bible.

Diane Sanfilippo: Not really possible. I resisted calling it Practical Keto, because I didn’t want people to compare them. And in hindsight, I’m like; I probably should have just called it Practical Keto. Because it doesn’t have all the therapeutic meal plans, but I do address all different health concerns and kind of what to tweak and be aware of on keto.

Anyway. I’m excited. I’m glad that you got it. I know that you're not a keto eater, but I think there are probably lots of meals in here that might look appealing. And somebody else can cook for you to enjoy! {laughs} For those of you who might be new to the podcast, Liz is a self-proclaimed non-cook, so that’s not a dig. But anyway.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah, not a dig at all. It’s a fact.

Diane Sanfilippo: Anyway. So the book released, and my tour kicks off tonight, if you're listening to this episode the day that it airs, here in San Francisco. Then I’ll be heading to Orange County to Huntington Beach. I actually signed books there last year, as well. Heading down there tomorrow; January 3rd and 4th.

And I’m going to give you guys a quick rundown, as I’ve done in many episodes of just all the cities that I’ll be at. So if you hear one that’s anywhere near you, I would love to meet you. Boca Raton, Florida. Dallas, Houston. Los Angeles. Seattle. Portland. Washington D.C. Charlotte. Las Vegas. Denver. Kansas City. And Phoenix. And Liz will be with me in Kansas City, which will be super fun. Cassy Joy Garcia will be with me on a few. I’ll have Emily Schromm with me in Denver. Mickey Trescott in Portland at the one that’s at Barnes and Noble. So lots of good guests. Orange County, I think I’ve got my friend Beth from Tasty Yummies, and in LA my friend Robyn Youkilis. So super fun. We’ll just have a special guest situation. I love that.

Other big updates; some of you may have seen recently I released Balanced Bites spices, a rainbow spice pack so you can try the flavors in much smaller packs. They’re bags. I don’t know what the inventory will be like at the time of this episode airing. We sold out on a flash sale quantity that I had. I’m trying to get more back. But I just don’t know, so stay tuned and look for that.

And, a lot of you probably saw over on Instagram, but this will be the first official podcast mention of some meals I have coming out. Mid-month they’ll be releasing. I should have, at the time of this airing, something up on my website over at for preorder on the meals. If you don’t see it, maybe it will be up in the next day or two. But it should be there at some point during the first week of January, at the very latest, I hope. But I’m super excited.

It’s going to be frozen meals that folks can get nationwide. I don’t really know what all to say about it, other than I put it out into the universe initially 10 years ago. And I’ll talk a lot more about it on a future episode, really where this came from. But some people know I used to have a meal business here in San Francisco. And this is a full circle moment for me. Because the opportunity arose very recently that I had been putting this into the universe for a long time. And it came up while I was away in Hawaii. And I was like; yes! This is absolutely something I want to do.

So anywho. Those are coming. They’ll be ordered online. They won’t be in any stores initially. I don’t know what the future will hold. I think that will be amazing. But it’s a whole other undertaking to get that figured out. But yeah. That’s a lot going on. It’s insane. But yeah, that’s it.

What’s going on over by the lake? Besides sitting down and reading Keto Quick Start? Because obviously, that’s at the top of the list right now.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah, other than that. Not a lot’s been going on. You caught me on an interesting day. We’ve been; my daughter had a cold that turned into croup.

Diane Sanfilippo: Eek!

Liz Wolfe: So any mom that has dealt with croup is probably like; oh god! So I was probably up just staring at her last night. Got maybe about 3 hours of sleep. So I might be a little slow on the uptake today. But usually the third night is the worst, so hopefully we are on the upswing now. Fingers crossed.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. For anybody who ever is like; how are you doing all of this stuff? I’ll always remind people, I don’t have kids. Because I know full well how much time and energy and attention really goes to caring for your little ones. And I think it’s obviously the most important thing. And I don’t want anyone to ever be like; I don’t know, thinking that I somehow fabricate more time. Not having kids is something that gives me a lot of additional time to focus on other things. I just feel like a lot of people are like; how do you do all that stuff? First of all, I have a team. Second of all, I don’t have kids. Don’t forget how much attention that requires. You know? I’m saying that in a way to honor it.

Liz Wolfe: And unpredictably. Thank you for that. I think part of the hardest thing about it is how unpredictable it is. I do try and schedule my weeks, and schedule the training I’ve been trying to do three times a week. And it’s funny. People ask me; geeze, you train all the time! I don’t know why they think that. I train for one hour three times a week. And that’s still hard.

Diane Sanfilippo: It’s like the only thing on your stories, though.

Liz Wolfe: That’s very true.

Diane Sanfilippo: It’s really all people see.

Liz Wolfe: And I do and try and put it up there fairly consistently. Because people seem to enjoy it. But the unpredictability of it. I had the whole week planned out, and then she’s sick. She can’t go to preschool, and things have to shift. And you don’t get to sleep. And you're like’ when am I going to catch up on the sleep. So it’s definitely interesting.

You have to kind of preemptively set yourself up for success, which is completely impossible.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing}

Liz Wolfe: So it’s like; I should have been banking sleep for the last two weeks when I could, instead of watching the Marvelous Mrs. Maisel. Ugh. And now I’m at a deficit. But it’s ok. It is what it is.

2. What we ate for dinner [8:51]

Liz Wolfe: Alright. Let’s do a little thing called what I ate for dinner last night. Diane; what did you eat for dinner last night?

Diane Sanfilippo: You're going to give this one to me first. Ok.

Liz Wolfe: I am. Because I didn’t eat dinner last night; I was dealing with croup. {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: No, then you're going to have to go back two nights. You can’t get out of this one.

Liz Wolfe: I’ll think of the last night I had dinner.

Diane Sanfilippo: Everybody wants to know what you ate. Two days ago is hard to remember.

Liz Wolfe: It is. But I’ve got time.

Diane Sanfilippo: That dietary recall.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs} That’s a nutritionist joke.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} It totally is!

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: So last night, I’ll take my time describing it for your benefit, ok Liz?

Liz Wolfe: OK.

Diane Sanfilippo: Ok. Last night was like BB spices extravaganza. So, I took some chicken thighs. I’m going to really tell this story. They were partially frozen still, but the upside about chicken thighs is that because they have a higher fat content, you can kind of cook them; I don’t know, with an inexact science, I’ll say. They hold up; they won’t get dried out, and they’re pretty good.

So I seasoned them with taco and fajita blend. Cooked them in some ghee with some fresh chopped up garlic, and just kind of let them go until they really cooked through. While watching Vanderpump Rules, in case anyone is wondering. James is the new Jax, also. Liz, you really need to catch up on Vanderpump Rules instead of whatever Marvelous show you were watching that sounded much more adult.

Liz Wolfe: I really do.

Diane Sanfilippo: So, I’m cooking the chicken thighs. A bunch of lime juice; just kind of packing in the flavor. I also made a limey ranch dressing. So instead of using lemon juice, I had sour cream, I had lime juice, my Balanced Bites spices ranch blend. I put a little bit of super garlic in there, too. I like to really up the garlic factor. So that was super yummy. And a whole bunch of cilantro. And just ate it with some greens, which is kind of typical for us. We just throw something over whatever greens, like arugula or kale. Last night we actually just used some arugula.

So yeah. Just kept it pretty simple. Meat and greens. Pretty classic around here. What can you remember from maybe two dinners ago?

Liz Wolfe: Well, it was carry out. But it was really legit carry out.

Diane Sanfilippo: What was it.

Liz Wolfe: We had a Christmas sing over by my favorite Thai restaurant. It’s called Lemongrass. It’s in Overland Park, Kansas. And they have legit; like a really cool menu. And they’ve got some traditional Thai dishes on there that are really fun and interesting. Not the best for carry out, but if you're dining in you can try some of that fun stuff.

So I got massaman curry with extra veggies. I actually don’t do a whole lot of meat in restaurants when I don’t know the source of it. So if I’m going to a nice local place, and I know the farm or whatever, I’ll get meat. But usually when I do the Thai food, I’ll just do no meat extra veggies. And it was super yummy.

Diane Sanfilippo: That sounds good.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: We talked about the fact that we both have Thai places called Lemongrass Thai. Not that that’s an uncommon name for a Thai restaurant, but I think it’s funny.

Liz Wolfe: They do a really good job. And I know they source locally as much as they can. You can’t ask for miracles in Kansas City, but it’s pretty good stuff.

Liz Wolfe: The Balanced Bites podcast is sponsored in part by the Nutritional Therapy Association. The NTA trains and certifies nutritional therapy practitioners and consultants (including me; I’m an NTP), emphasizing bio-individuality and the range of dietary strategies that support wellness. The NTA emphasizes local, whole, properly prepared nutrient dense foods as the key to restoring balance and enhancing the body’s ability to heal.

The NTA’s nutritional therapy practitioner program and fully online nutritional therapy consultant program empower graduates with the education and skills needed to launch a successful, fulfilling career in holistic nutrition. Registration is now open for February class, and you can learn more and save your seat by going to Don’t forget to check out the NTA’s annual conference, Roots, happening March 1 through 3 in Portland, Oregon. It’s one of the most empowering and educational holistic nutritional events of the year, and all are welcome.

3. Keto, fat loss, and genetics [13:21]

Liz Wolfe: So today we have a question from Jamie about keto and genetics, and fat loss. So triple whammy. “This year, I tried keto and it did not work for fat loss, which is what I was hoping for. But also, for more energy and brain power. I almost wonder if I was just going too hard. I started having guilt about even eating veggies. Everything has carbs, and the more I didn’t lose weight, the more I wanted to restrict. Eventually I stopped because I could tell I was obsessed. Then I had some testing done, because I wondered if something was just wrong with me, and that’s why it wasn’t working. Nothing major showed up, but my question today is about keto and genetic testing.

My APOE is E3/E3. What the practitioner said is that means my body likes/needs a balanced plate of carbs, protein, fat, and that is probably why keto did not work for me. I don’t know much about this, but I’m curious if there’s any validity to this. What’s also interesting is that I do really well fasting. I can fast for 24-48 hours with zero struggle. So I naturally thought keto would be perfect for me. It’s like fasting without fasting. Right? Isn’t that what they say? Maybe not?

When I do a 24-hour fast, I most definitely have carbs with a meal I have, and it’s a large meal. So maybe my body does need carbs when I eat. Just curious if you know anything about this. If it’s true, and if so, does that mean keto is not for me? I’ve already preordered your book, and plan to do it regardless because I know the food will be yummy and I like to eat.”

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} I love that.

Liz Wolfe: Love that. “The last year I’ve not had much movement outside of occasional walking and yoga due to a foot injury. I try to get 8 hours of sleep. I’m taking some daily vitamins, but no prescription drugs. I’m not sure if this is applicable to my question, but I have the info so I may as well share. The testing I had done says I have the MTHFR mutation, low omega-3s.” Oh, goodness. Lots of language here. “Sat to unsat fat ratio too many saturated fats; not sure I care about their opinion on that because the fats I consume are healthy fats. Low vitamin D at 35. B12 at 709. Folate 8.4 and Co-Q10. She said these are from the gene mutation, and that my thyroid is in the national average, but lower than she likes to see at 1.71. she wants it between 2 and 2.5.”

A lot of info there.

Diane Sanfilippo: OK. A lot of info.

Liz Wolfe: I give this one to you.

Diane Sanfilippo: Ok, so a couple of things going on here. Really interesting; first and foremost, I really don’t address some of these gene issues in Keto Quick Start, because it’s a quick start book. It’s really the basic information. And there’s always new research coming out about the nuances. Especially now that keto is becoming a lot more popular. And we can figure out more things about why certain things work for some people and not for others.

One of the things I will always stand by is if you do something for a period of time, especially in a very healthy balanced way. Which I do want to address what was happening with her mindset issues here. But look; not everything works for everybody for a variety of reason. One may be physiological; one may be emotional and mental. For some people, the obsession with restricting and being scared of carbs and all of that.

To me, that mindset issue is like a; this is not working for you. For a lot of people, it’s a relief. It feels like freedom. It feels easier to eat this way. And I think that’s a great thing. And for other people, it doesn’t. It feels obsessive. It feels overly restrictive. It feels like; oh my gosh, I’m scared to eat kale. I talked about this on an episode with Cassy Joy on her show. We were like; alright, chill out with the kale.

So there are a few things going on. I will say this; I’ve done some research on the whole APOE thing. And with her markers, with E3/E3 being what she comes in at. And you guys can check out Dr. Alan Christianson; he is known as somebody who has been in the low-carb/keto world for a long time. And he does talk about how a lower to moderate fat diet might be more relevant for somebody with your genetic makeup.

So, in this case, maybe eating something that looks a little more like Zone. Which for a lot of us, doesn’t feel good and isn’t that effective. Because it doesn’t feel good; those two things kind of go hand in hand. I could talk more about that too. But that might be a better approach for you.

This is a big myth about keto and fat loss; a lot of people feel like keto is the only way to lose fat or it helps everybody lose fat. And it’s just not true for a variety of reasons. So I think this is valid; you're experiencing it in your N=1 where you feel fine eating carbs. You feel fine fasting after that. A lot of people don’t. So, I say go with what is happening for your body.

I do want to address this idea of; I did keto, it didn’t work for me for fat loss. With this listener set aside; if you're listening and you're like; I tried keto and I didn’t lose any body fat. And I really have a significant amount to lose; I’m not talking, as we’ve said over the years on this show; 5-10-15 pounds. If you have over 30 pounds of fat to really lose, eating keto can be really helpful. And I do think it’s important to be eating high quality foods. To be eating a mix of different types of vegetables in there.

In the book I give you a list of keto foods. I show you kind of the real-real on how many carbs are in different foods. When you look at the meal plans, you can see. There are plenty of veggies in there, and you're still going to come out to your roughly 30 net carbs a day. Which not everybody needs to be eating that low of carbohydrate intake to be in ketosis. And to have this be effective for you. Just something to keep in mind there.

I wanted to address the; “eventually I stopped because I could tell I was obsessed.” First of all; gold star. I think that’s great. I think it’s really good to identify when a way of eating becomes more triggering and unhelpful for you. Because regardless of what it’s doing for you physically. Even if this was working for you; the fact that you became obsessed and unbalanced as a result I think would be a sign that it’s not working for you on the emotional side. Does that make sense?

So for a lot of people, keto works really well on the emotional side for a lot of people because it helps our appetite and our hunger not be as intense. And for people who have struggled with dieting and losing weight for years, potentially on low-fat, higher carb diets, the stimulation or the feeling of hunger also triggers anxiety, stress, feelings of worry, feelings of “I don’t know what to choose to eat next.” We have to eat, but it feels like I need to choose this thing that will nourish me, and make me not hungry anymore. And also somehow contribute to me losing body fat.

That’s this decision that we make that’s kind of at odds all the time. We’re eating, and we want to lose body fat. And one thing that really happens with keto on the upside is that for so many people, it’s this relief. Like; I’m just not as hungry all the time. Or my appetite seems to be less intense. So that’s a big upside for a lot of people.

If you can fast for 24-48 hours, while eating whatever it is that you're eating, I think that’s great. If you feel good fasting; fasting is a really effective tool. But it’s definitely not for everyone. And I definitely thing that if you're finding what works for you, and your genetics are obviously kind of lining up with that, then that’s great.

Now, what’s going on with your thyroid, I think that that’s something that could be as a result of a keto way of eating that wasn’t working for you. I think it would be good to just track that over time, and see where it comes out over time. You're really going to have a lot going on there in terms of what’s going on with your stress level. If you're not getting healthy exercise. If your body is not able to handle stress that’s happening. If you do need to eat some more carbs for your personal constitution. So I would kind of deal with all of that and getting a little vitamin D exposure if you can get some sun. I don’t know where you live, but this time of year it may be a little bit tricky.

So we’ll put the link in the show notes to this article from Christianson about The Best Fat Intake For The Top Three Genotypes: Which Are You?, so you guys can check that out on those details. But I think that’s kind of what I wanted to address there. Because the obsession about vegetables; this is a big thing.

Liz, what’s so funny is you and I, years ago when we were teaching seminars. I feel like we’ve run the gamut, we’ve gone back and forth and come back again. But do you remember there were days when we were like; I don’t know, vegetables seem super overrated. It’s almost like we were thinking carnivore-ish for a while. And then we go back the other way, and we’re like; I don’t know, maybe vegetables are pretty good. {laughs}

I’m just laughing because we’ve definitely been there. I think we were kind of anti-fiber for a while. Which I’ve seen a lot of folks today on the carnivore tip, and they’re pretty anti-fiber. They think vegetable matter and lots of fiber is very, very disruptive of our gut health. Which is interesting.

Anyway. Folks who are eating keto a lot of times get scared of veggies. To the point where then the plate becomes meat, cheese, meat, cheese. {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: {laughs} Sounds amazing.

Diane Sanfilippo: It’s delicious. And let me just say, I’m not a hater. I’m not opposed to it. But then it also becomes fat bombs and all these other things. And if that’s what you want to eat, and you feel good eating that, I have nothing really much to say about it. I’m like; whatever feels good for you. But if it doesn’t feel good because you want to eat a big leafy green salad, you can eat a leafy green salad. I don’t count leafy greens. I don’t count lettuce, arugula, spinach. None of that gets counted. Because it has barely any carbs. So for everybody who is kind of freaking out; eat your greens. You will be fine. When you get into things like beets, and butternut squash; yeah, there might be some limits. But you can still roast a little butternut squash and have it on your salad. And be in ketosis, if that’s the goal.

So I need people {laughs} there’s a girl who is on out Keto Quick Start launch team, and somebody was asking her what her biggest piece of advice is. I’m sorry, I didn’t jot down her handle, but maybe she can comment on this. But they were like; what’s your biggest piece of keto advice? And she’s like, chill the F out, everyone.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: I was like, we need to start a hashtag; CTFO. I won’t say it. We have a clean, non-explicit podcast, but it was like. Everyone just chill out. Yore going to be fine. Eat the foods, you’ll be fine.

Liz Wolfe: Eat the foods; you’ll be fine.

Diane Sanfilippo: Anyway. I think that was a really good question. It’s such an interesting topic.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah, it is.

Diane Sanfilippo: There are also, I forgot to mention this one other thing. There are also some people; and I think Leanne Vogel has been talking about this a bit. There are some people whose genetic makeup, besides the fact that some do better with lower fat or higher fat, don’t process saturated fats as well as others. And I think if this is something you're really getting into, and you're eating keto super high fat, it would be good to know. But I don’t like for people to go down the genetic rabbit hole, unless you're really slamming your head against the wall figuring out your own body.

Liz Wolfe: I just had that test done just for fun. And I’m trying to pull up my little…

Diane Sanfilippo: Was it fun? {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: I mean, it was a blast. Having 75 vials of blood drawn. I can’t find it, but I remember kind of being surprised at my results, as well. But also just kind of being like; oh. I kind of have a natural proclivity for this kind of combination of food at this point in my life, and maybe there’s a reason for that. So it’s interesting stuff.

Diane Sanfilippo: Mm-hmm.

4. Being a mom and sleep issues [25:20]

Liz Wolfe: Alright, ready for the next question?

Diane Sanfilippo: Mm-hmm.

Liz Wolfe: This one is from Elizabeth about mom and sleep problems. Oh, ho, ho. How appropriate.

Diane Sanfilippo: Did you write this one into the show? Elizabeth?

Liz Wolfe: I didn’t, that I remember. But I was up {laughs} for many, many hours last night. And I also discovered in the process that there is an end to the internet. I reached the end of the internet while sitting there.

Diane Sanfilippo: What was there? Justin Bieber and the cat memes.

Liz Wolfe: {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: Sorry. It was funny though, because I read everything I wanted to read. And I was just scrolling and scrolling. And I just started to read these really total click-bait articles, where it was like; 28 worst botched plastic surgeries of 2018.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: And I was like; what am I reading? Is this Hollywood life? Perez Hilton? It was actually Fox News, which I thought was funny. {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: That’s amazing.

Liz Wolfe: It’s like; they really know how to suck people in there. Alright, that was not political commentary. We’ll just move on from that. Ok, this question is from Elizabeth. “I love your podcast. The episode I recently listened to discussed hormones and sleep. One frustrating thing for me is I’m a mom of 2 kids and I don’t think I could get 7 hours of sleep, no matter what. I feel frustrated because I don’t know what to do. And it seems like if you can’t get 7 hours, there’s nothing to be done to help. Any tips on how to compensate?”

My first thought about this is; don’t get stuck in the all or nothing mentality. Because that is so me on so many things. An example would be meditation. Some folks might remember I took a meditation class. I learned the transcendental meditation technique. And it became really difficult almost right away to do two 20-minute sessions every day. Morning 20 minutes, evening 20 minutes. I wasn’t able to do that, so I basically haven’t been doing it. I was actually talking to my lovely therapist today, and she was like; do it for 5 minutes in the morning. It’s still good stuff.

Even more so, I believe that would apply with sleep. If you can’t get 7, but you can get 5.5, that’s better than getting 2 hours, right? So just pat yourself on the back for whatever level of sleep you can get. Look at your sleep hygiene. If you are legitimately going straight to bed when you possibly can, and not staying up and watching Zachary Levi on the Marvelous Mrs. Maisel, then good on you. But if there is stuff that you can cut out between when you're done for the night and when you actually close your eyes to try and fall asleep, like an hour of TV. I know that’s decompression, and it’s my favorite, favorite thing. But if we’re being honest with ourselves; that’s not necessary. If you want to get up an hour earlier and watch that in the morning, it’s probably even better for your hormones to transition that. If you have to watch it, and you have to pick between night and morning, watch it in the morning and wake up an hour earlier and go to bed an hour earlier.

Make sure the other sleep hygiene stuff is in place. Like when you wake up in the middle of the night, or when your kids wake up in the night, that you're turning on a blue-light blocking light. I know people are really into blue-light blocking glasses. But what we’ve done is we’ve gotten light bulbs and nightlights from and we’ve been using them since my daughter was born. Any time we wake up in the night, we’re not turning on regular lights.

Of course we’re trying not to look at screens. One of the things we had done with the baby monitor is; you can also get at these little orange/amber, you can cut them to size. So you can basically cut these flexible plastic amber colored sheets to fit over the top of your baby monitor. So if you turn on the baby monitor, and you have to check it, that blue light is going to be filtered out a little bit more. You can put that on your phone, as well. They have phone covers for that, too.

So I really think trying to balance being realistic with the ideal is really, really important. And not feeling like if you can’t do all of it then you can’t do any of it.

Some people, also, get by just fine on 6.5 to 7 hours. It’s probably not ideal for most people. But if you're feeling like you're functioning ok, then don’t be too hard on yourself for not getting what you feel like is the ideal amount of sleep. This is a season of life where it’s really, really hard and really unpredictable.

The other thing I would recommend is doing what I don’t do, but tell myself I should be doing. Which is banking sleep where I can. I got 3 hours of sleep last night, but the last two weeks I could have been, like I said earlier, not watching an hour of TV beforehand. I really need to be more suspicious about things when I feel like we’re on a good roll and I start watching more TV at night.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: Something’s around the corner that I really need to be banking sleep for.

Diane Sanfilippo: Spoken like a true 6.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah, spoken like a 6 for sure. So the other thing I wanted to throw in here is really more regarding; I don’t know this mom’s situation. So in the ancestral health community, often times we find people that are very possessed of attachment parenting. And I think that is great. I love attachment parenting. I’ve learned a ton about attachment theory. And doing research with our research team for Baby Making and Beyond.

But what I want to say to folks; if you have two kids and you're really struggling with night wakings. Or a sleep situation that’s not working for you. I want people to understand that there is a middle ground between responsiveness to anything and everything, and digging out what might be unnecessarily disrupting sleep.

An example of that would be if your kid is waking 6 times a night, and you feel like they need you and you have to go in there 6 times a night, maybe rather than kind of taking that more extreme what they often call attachment parenting side, even though this is not something that’s actually even a part of attachment theory.

You know how; this is how you have to do paleo. It’s like, this is how you have to do attachment parenting. There’s actually several different ways you can interpret the same principles. If your kid is waking 6 times a night, it’s great to be responsive and go in and help. But you could also take a second and think; what might be going on here. How can we better attack it, versus putting a Band-Aid on the situation and responding in one way when perhaps what is really going to help everybody get more restorative sleep is to do a little bit more digging.

And I know this is a really tough topic. And I’m just speaking off the cuff, so probably I’m bristling feathers already. But what I would recommend is folks go and listen to the podcast that I’ve done with the Modern Mamas. I know, Diane you and I both have been on the Modern Mamas podcast a few times. And when I went on it to talk to Jess and Laura, I went on to talk about aware parenting. Which is very much founded in attachment theory. Very scientifically sound. Something I was really, really profoundly grateful to discover that really helped us attack the sleep issues we were having while still maintaining a really strong emotional connection that was really cemented in responsive parenting.

So, if something that’s keeping you from sleeping could be looked at in a different light to help everybody get more sleep, that might be worth listening to. It might be worth looking into aware parenting. Things like that. I don’t know if that’s the problem here, but you never know.

Diane Sanfilippo: That’s super interesting. One of my friends who has a baby who is under 2, and a kid who is in kindergarten. She was just telling me about this. This is super practical, and I have no idea the reasons why the kid might be waking up a bunch or sleep is getting disrupted. But she was having issues with her kid constantly waking up too early and coming in and waking her up. There wasn’t anything wrong, it was just he didn’t know what time it was. He couldn’t tell time. He woke up, and thought, “I go wake up mommy now.”

So, she got some kind of clock. I don’t know what it’s called. But it’s basically a green light clock. Where if it’s not green, you play quietly in your room or go back to sleep or whatever. Unless; I’m sure there’s a way to explain if someone is hurt or whatever is happening. But I was like; oh, that’s so fascinating. Because if you're in that stage where the kid can understand this and that, but can’t necessarily tell time or whatever, and they can see the clock. I just thought that was such a cool idea. I don’t know; is that weird.

Liz Wolfe: I think it’s definitely interesting. We don’t use it; my daughter pretty much wakes up; this didn’t used to be the case. But when she was waking up all the time, she was way too young for an “ok to wake” clock. But she wakes up pretty much between 6:45 and 7:30 every morning on cue. I think that’s pretty reasonable. But I do have friends who use the “Ok to wake” clock.

I don’t know what the blue light situation is, but potentially something you could do, if you look up those “ok to wake” clock and there are any kind of lights that you're uncomfortable with or it’s making it so the room isn’t blacked out, you could also get one of those rise and shine type clocks.

Diane Sanfilippo: Like the sunrise ones?

Liz Wolfe: Yeah, the sunrise ones. That maybe that’s the signal that a kid can wake up. Which is probably a little bit different from emotional release type things that are keeping kids up during the night or their fears or other things like that. And yeah, that’s a whole nother thing. Where it’s like; secure attachment is what everybody wants.

We want trust with our kids; we want them to know to their core, in their soul, that we love them and we’re there for them. That’s not an intellectual thing, it’s an instinctual thing. And you can achieve that by being responsive. But that doesn’t mean that your kid has to never be upset with you or never express strong negative feelings. It’s just important that you're present for those as much as you are present for the happy ones. There’s a lot to the aware parenting stuff, and stuff I talked about on the Modern Mamas podcast. But many different angles here that maybe stuff could be edited with the kids, like you were saying, and maybe get folks more sleep. And sometimes, there’s nothing that can be done, and you just have to give yourself a little grace and alleviate some of the stress around the situation that’s just making it worse.

Diane Sanfilippo: Today’s podcast is sponsored by Perfect Keto. Dr. Anthony Gustin and his teams have created a line of supplements that are super clean and effective, no matter what your dietary needs. I’ve been blending their MCT oil powder into my matcha latte lately. Not only are MCTs; medium chain triglycerides; a premium source of your body’s preferred type of energy, and help to fuel your brain and body, but there’s also no added taste. It makes your coffee or matcha wonderfully creamy. Check them out at and use the code BALANCED for 20% off at Perfect Keto; and their sister site, Equip Foods.

5. Something new that I’m digging [36:31]

Liz Wolfe: Ok. Something new we are digging. Let’s talk about something new we’re digging. Diane, you start. As always.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} You always make me go first.

Liz Wolfe: I know.

Diane Sanfilippo: So, actually, interestingly we just had our Perfect Keto sponsor ad that came in here. But I’ve actually been really loving, from their sister company, the Pure WOD preworkout. So many of you know Liz’s Instagram stories months ago inspired me to get back into the gym and be working with a trainer. And I don’t know; Scott was drinking the preworkout. And I was like; what does it taste like? And he told me it tasted like lemonade. I was like, ok maybe I’ll try it. And I tried it, and I really like the little bit; there’s a little bit of zing of caffeine from green tea. I like this blackberry lemon flavor. I don’t know what the other; there’s a goji berry flavor. I’m not sure what that one tastes like.

Basically it has some BCAAs, which are typical in a preworkout. A little bit of that, caffeine from green tea extract, like I said. There’s also some creatine and carnitine. There’s coconut water powder, but it’s still really low carb. I think it’s essentially a 0 carb product. A little bit of protein; 4 grams of protein.

I don’t know. I’ve just been enjoying it. I like the way it tastes. I like the little; I get a little tingly feeling. Like my muscles are like; yeah, we’re ready to go! But not a crazed feeling. And especially when I’m working out in the morning. I actually have been having that, because it does have some caffeine, and I have not been also having matcha on the days where I go workout with a trainer. Because that would kind of be like a double whammy.

So I’ve been into that. I’m digging it. If people are working out and like having a preworkout drink, maybe try it. Obviously, we have a coupon code from the podcast so you can still use the came code, BALANCED, for Equip stuff. But this wasn’t like a paid for, separate thing. I just happen to pick up using it. I really like it. I think I’m going to be bringing it with me on tour so I can have that little extra push when I’m going to do some hotel workouts, especially, because I’ll be on my own. It does really make me feel just more ready. Which I like. So there’s that.

Alright; are you ready?

Liz Wolfe: I have one.

Diane Sanfilippo: OK! {laughing}

Liz Wolfe: Something new I’m digging. This is skincare related, is that ok?

Diane Sanfilippo: I guess so. No, of course. Tell us everything.

Liz Wolfe: I’ve been using a mandelic acid. I guess you wouldn’t call it a toner. Mandelic acid treatment. Mandelic acid is kind of like a peel type thing. It’s like glycolic acid, which a lot of people have heard of, or lactic acid, which a lot of people have heard of. And it helps you kind of destick and exfoliate your skin chemically. But the molecule size is bigger than with glycolic acid, so it tends to be a little bit more gentle and better tolerated.

So I’ve been using basically it’s mandelic acid is really the only main ingredient. I think other than that it’s like alcohol or something like that. Maybe some glycerin, I can’t quite remember. But I’ve just been smoothing it on with a cotton ball a couple of nights a week to try and just exfoliate a little bit better. My skin has just gotten a little bit dull in the winter. And I’m liking it. I feel like it’s concentrated enough, but it’s not so powerful that it’s causing any redness or irritation. Which I try and be more careful about in the winter, just because my skin is dryer and the air is dryer, so I’d be more prone to that versus in the summer and spring when I can usually get away with using something a little bit stronger. So I’m liking it.

Diane Sanfilippo: Cool.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah. That’s it for this week then. You can find me, Liz, at and Diane at Join our email lists for free goodies and updates that you don’t find anywhere else on our website or on the podcast. While you’re on the internet, leave us an iTunes review. See you next week.

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