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You’re listening to the Balanced Bites podcast episode 243.
Welcome to the Balanced Bites podcast with Diane Sanfilippo and Liz Wolfe. Diane is a certified nutrition consultant, and the New York Times bestselling author of Practical Paleo, The 21-Day Sugar Detox, and co-author of Mediterranean Paleo Cooking. Liz is a nutritional therapy practitioner, and the best-selling author of Eat the Yolks and The Purely Primal Skincare Guide. Together, Diane and Liz answer your questions, interview leading health and wellness experts, and share their take on modern paleo living with their friendly and balanced approach. Remember our disclaimer: The materials and content within this podcast are intended as general information only, and are not to be considered a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.
Liz Wolfe: Hey everyone. It’s Liz. My voice is back!
Diane Sanfilippo: Yay! It sounds so pretty.
Liz Wolfe: Does it?
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.
Liz Wolfe: Well thank you friend, Diane, co-host Diane.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: Somebody wrote into Instagram, I think saying, “Well now I can tell you guys apart.”
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} For once! Look, if you’ve been listening for 243 episodes and you cannot yet tell us apart, I don’t know how to help. I don’t think we sound that much alike.
Liz Wolfe: We don’t. We don’t.
Diane Sanfilippo: Ok.
Liz Wolfe: Anyway.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: Let’s hear from one of our sponsors.
Liz Wolfe: The Balanced Bites podcast is sponsored in part by the Nutritional Therapy Association. The NTA trains and certifies nutritional therapy practitioners and consultants, including me, I’m an NTP, emphasizing bio-individuality and the range of dietary strategies that support wellness. The NTA emphasizes local, whole, properly prepared nutrient dense foods as the key to restoring balance and enhancing the body’s ability to heal. Nutritional therapy practitioners and consultants learn a wide range of tools and techniques to assess and correct nutritional imbalances. To learn lots more about the nutritional therapy program, go to NutritionalTherapy.com. There are workshop venues in the US, Canada, and Australia, so chances are you’ll be able to find a venue that works for you.
1. News and updates from Diane & Liz [2:17]
Liz Wolfe: Diane; what are your updates this week?
Diane Sanfilippo: Alright, updates. So, I guess I’ll just give a little life/fun thing, update first, because I know I like hearing little personal insights from my podcast hosts that I listen to. So my sister was in town last week. For those of you who don’t know, I have an older sister. She lives in London; she teaches yoga there. So if you’ve ever wondered, and you’re one of our listeners from London, or anywhere in that area and you’ve gone to a class with Lisa Sanfilippo; yes, that is my sister.
Liz Wolfe: You sound like you’re from London!
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} I don’t know this reference.
Liz Wolfe: That’s ok.
Diane Sanfilippo: Ok good. That’s pretty classic, that I don’t know your references. So we went out for sushi, I posted a picture to Instagram, of course, because if you’re eating sushi you have to post it to Instagram. {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: If you’re in San Francisco, eating sushi is on your Instagram.
Diane Sanfilippo: It’s just a thing. So the place we ate at, if anybody is coming to the area of lives here, it’s called Tataki, it’s on California street, and it’s amazing. They have sustainable seafood, yadda, yadda, yadda. Delicious. Ok, so for the first time probably almost ever in our adults lives; and this happened, I feel like this happened to you and I a bunch when we would travel together because it made absolutely no sense because you and I really do not look alike. Maybe one day we would have both been wearing, I don’t know, jeans and a black shirt. But that doesn’t actually make people look alike, we’re just perhaps dressed alike.
So the waitress asked if we were sisters, and I thought it was kind of sweet, because we’re never really together in situations like that. We don’t see each other more than a few times a year. Basically, we live so far apart and when we’re together it’s family events and we’re just kind of at our parent’s house or whatever. So that was really cute. I was like, yes, we are sisters; and how nice of you to notice. So that was neat.
I don’t know. I just thought it was fun, because you and your sister look a ton alike, so I feel like that’s kind of a …
Liz Wolfe: We do?
Diane Sanfilippo: I don’t know, just like a; you don’t think? I think you do.
Liz Wolfe: I don’t know, I feel like we don’t, but that makes me really happy that you think we do.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, I think you do. I think you do. So that was it, that was just a cute little update, and we had a blast. I took her to World Market; do you guys have a World Market? Cost Plus World Market?
Liz Wolfe: Yes, but I haven’t been there.
Diane Sanfilippo: Ok, so for anybody who doesn’t know what World Market is, it’s sort of like Pier One meets Pottery Barn, but all sort of better. No better necessarily quality wise than Pottery Barn, but you know how Pier One, you could walk in there; at least this happens to me, and you feel like you like everything but then when you really get it up close and you’re trying to make a decision, you’re like; hmm, I don’t know about that. It’s a little too interesting. There’s too much going on.
Well, World Market takes it down just one notch, and everything there; I basically could just bring a suitcase and just live in that store {laughs} between some of the fun food that they have and whole living room set ups, and pajamas, and random stuff. So I took my sister there, and she had a really fun time. And that makes it sound like she’s about 6 years old {laughs} but she’s not, she’s older than me. But she just was having a blast looking through, and she had a fun time being a tourist in San Francisco, so that was really fun.
Anyway, I digress. So business updates, I want to let you guys know I’m doing Facebook live videos. Not on any kind of schedule yet. You guys, I’m not good with scheduling. Liz and I, we both laugh at the fact that we’ve been doing this podcast for almost 5 years now, because how we get it together to sit together and record this every week I do not know.
Liz Wolfe: {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Because scheduling us both is a massive challenge, but we’re dedicated so we find the time. But getting that scheduled is kind of tricky. But just stay tuned over on Facebook if you’re there; make sure you have a little; I don’t know, you get the notification when I’m on there. And if you want to ask questions, that’s a perfect place to do it. So there’s that.
I know I’ve had a couple of people asking; if you’re on my email list, you’re not sure if you’re on the list or not, because sometimes people have opted in or asked for an eBook or my healthy shopping list. If you’re on my email list, you’re getting an email once a week. Usually it’s on Wednesday unless something goes awry early in the week for me and I can’t get it finished up. But usually Wednesday and it’s coming from [email protected]. So make sure you search your inbox, and spam and all that stuff. I just think you have heard me say this before; I recommend, this is what I do with newsletters. I have them filtered to a newsletter folder, and I check the newsletter folder once a day just to see what’s going on, and this way it doesn’t kind of flood the main inbox. This is for Gmail users, assuming. I assume everybody’s on an iPhone and uses Gmail.
Liz Wolfe: My dad still has hotmail.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, {laughs} there’s probably another way to do it everywhere.
Liz Wolfe: Oh, and my husband has Yahoo; embarrassing!
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing} That is embarrassing.
Liz Wolfe: {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: So that’s what I recommend, because you want to make sure you can see them when you want to and I would just check and make sure that you’re getting them. So you’ll be getting them once a week.
Anyway; upcoming event; PaleoFx. I’ll see you guys there, and the Badass Business Entrepreneurs Mastermind event. Only about 5 seats left there. So if you’ve been listening, and you’re like; I want to do that! And you just haven’t grabbed a ticket, grab one because they’re almost gone.
And then, just, you know, same old same old; Master Class updates, moving along so BalancedBites.com/MasterClass if you want the details on that, and if you want to find out when and if we’ll be able to open the beta launch to some of y’all, our lovely listeners. And that’s it. What’s up with you, my friend?
Liz Wolfe: Did I make any notes in the document about what’s up with me?
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} You did. Do you want me to tell you what’s up with you?
Liz Wolfe: No, I totally got it.
Diane Sanfilippo: Ok.
Liz Wolfe: So, a while back I talked about trying to go to Washington DC with Beauty Counter; and I’m going.
Diane Sanfilippo: Wohoo!
Liz Wolfe: Yeah. So, this airs on Thursday. I will leave on Sunday and be there Sunday through Wednesday freaking out, because this is the first time I’ve ever left my sweet baby.
Diane Sanfilippo: Ooh, yeah!
Liz Wolfe: And I’m still nursing, and my breasts do not pump effectively. There; I’m telling the world. So, let’s just hope that all goes well and I survive two full days and two half days away from her and we figure something out, and she doesn’t wean because I’m not ready for that yet. But it was just such a good opportunity. And actually my sister; me, my mom, and my sister are all doing this Beauty Counter thing. And my sister gets to go, too.
Diane Sanfilippo: Ooh, that’s nice.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah, we’re the delegates for our respective states; or among the delegates, so that’s pretty cool. We’ll spend a day kind of seeing what’s up around DC, which will be cool. It will be a little bit repetitive for me, just because I actually {laughs} in a past life; you always talk about your past lives, and what you used to do. In a past life, I was an intern in Washington DC for a political action committee, thinking I would go into politics. Nothing ever came of that. But I’ve lived there for a while and seen everything, but it will be really cool to see it from a different perspective, now that I’m older and wiser, and of course to see it with all of these really amazing, motivated, dedicated women that are working to change things in the cosmetics industry. It should be really neat. But again, hopefully I survive it. I’m sure I will be a weepy mess leaving my little girl.
Diane Sanfilippo: Aww.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah, it’s going to be hard. But I just feel like; you know, you’ve got to do it eventually, and if there’s; I don’t know, this seems like a good reason to do. I’ve got some support with my sister being there, so if I’m a mess, she can support me. We’ll see.
Let’s see what else; so, ok I think we get to move back into our house soon, which is fantastic.
Diane Sanfilippo: That’s very exciting.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah, you probably saw my Instagram
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: {laughs} Where someone in my household used dish soap instead of dish detergent in our brand new Bosch dishwasher, which was a huge splurge for us. This really quiet, self-drying, beautiful Bosch dishwasher; we were like, should we do it, or should we just put back in our current dishwasher that’s moldy and probably wouldn’t go for $25 on Craigslist, or should we get a new one? And we went ahead, and we got the new one, and of course the second time we use it, we. We.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: We put the wrong soap in. But all is well. We actually were about to start the dishwasher and leave the house, but luckily we stayed long enough to see the soap pouring out of the dishwasher. Anyway.
This whole moving back in; we were talking about this before we started recording. It’s fraught with all these challenges, because we moved out 4 months ago, and my kid was barely moving back then. She was a lot easier to keep tabs on, and now we’re moving into this basically new ground floor, and now I’ve got to baby proof. I mean, we’ve got to put gates everywhere, and outlet cover things everywhere, and corners and tacking furniture to the wall. It’s just crazy how fast things change.
Diane Sanfilippo: A lot going on, for sure.
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm. So nothing work related. Hopefully people wanted some personal updates. {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} I did.
2. This week’s shout out: Chris Masterjohn’s new podcast [11:47]
Liz Wolfe: Alright, I think we have a shout out. And this is a particularly exciting one, is it not?
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Exciting for me. I nerd out on this stuff. Our buddy, I’m going to call him our buddy. I think he’s our buddy.
Liz Wolfe: I think so.
Diane Sanfilippo: Chris Masterjohn; yeah, Chris Masterjohn who a lot of you know we interviewed a while ago; many moons ago about cholesterol. Which if you haven’t heard that episode, I don’t have it at my fingertips to see what number it is; awesome episode. I feel like we are totally self indulgent when we have guests like Chris on the show. But Chris Masterjohn has his own new podcast. It’s called the Daily Lipid. And if you’re super nerdy, definitely check it out. If you’re a nutrition consultant, an NTP, etc. if you’re one of our everyday health conscious folks, check it out if you’d like to, but I would say it’s definitely more for the practitioner minded people. He definitely gets a bit more scientific than we do, and is going to be using lots of jargon, stuff like that. But check it out either way and see if maybe it’s your flavor; maybe it’s not.
I laugh, because I can picture Chris; who is just, he’s a very happy guy.
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: I mean, if you’re ever around him, he’s just kind of jovial. He just has that sense about him. And when he’s recording his episode, he kind of laughs along the way. I don’t know if he’s laughing at the findings in the data, or laughing at himself, or what he’s laughing at, but I definitely find myself laughing right along with him. You know, I know what he’s like in person, and I can just picture it with his really cheerful smile. I don’t know, it’s just so endearing to me how much fun he has talking about nutrition nerdiness. So anywho, check it out. The Daily Lipid, it’s a new podcast, it’s loaded in iTunes. I think they’re pretty short, the episodes, so you guys should enjoy that.
Diane Sanfilippo: Pete’s Paleo is a friend of the Balanced Bites podcast. They’re bacon is insanely delicious, and sugar free, and their premade paleo meals make your life so much easier when everything is getting busy and getting real food on the table is still a top priority, as it should be. Pete’s Paleo is now offering a 30-day gut healing kit containing bone broth, gelatin gummies, instant organic soup packs, and an E-cookbook. It’s the perfect complement to any anti-inflammatory diet. Get yours today at www.guthealingkit.com. Use code GRABACUPPABROTH to get $25 off; that’s an amazing deal. It’s GRABACUPPABROTH, C-U-P-P-A. And you can grab that code any time at www.BalancedBites.com to just read it and make sure you’re typing it in right. You can also use code BALANCEDBITES to get $5 off any of their regular meal plans. Check out www.PetesPaleo.com today. Pete’s Paleo; bringing fine dining to your cave.
3. More about pee and overhydration [14:41]
Liz Wolfe: Alright, so this episode we’re going to answer some follow-up questions that mostly came in via BalancedBites.com. So, thanks for coming to BalancedBites.com; I guess I shouldn’t say thanks for coming to your website.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: But, thanks for going.
Diane Sanfilippo: I could do that.
Liz Wolfe: Thanks for going to BalancedBites.com.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. And there were definitely a bunch of questions that I think were more targeted towards you, Liz. Which we’ve grabbed a bunch of them for this episode, but in the future if you guys have a question, if you know that it’s Liz talking. Which generally if it’s about skin care, or pregnancy, most of those are Liz wheelhouse questions. But I do recommend hopping over to RealFoodLiz.com. She typically does have episodes up on the blog, as well, so you guys can ask the questions over there.
I know that seems a little bit confusing, but if it’s really specifically one that you’re coming in saying this question is for Liz, it’s much better to go ahead and post that on her site, because she will see it much more easily, because I do obviously own BalancedBites.com. So Liz doesn’t have her eyes on that every day the way that I do.
Liz Wolfe: I do not work for, contrary to what many people thing.
Diane Sanfilippo: Contrary to; yeah.
Liz Wolfe: I probably should. {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} I‘m like;
Liz Wolfe: Pew, pew, pew.
Diane Sanfilippo: No, I was adding up my payroll today, so {laughs} no, I cannot hire you. {laughs}.
Liz Wolfe: Alright.
Diane Sanfilippo: Anywho. So questions. We’ve got a bunch of follow-up questions, and just so you guys know we’re grabbing these from the blog primarily. We may grab a couple from Instagram here and there, but we are so thankful that y’all are joining us over on the blog to keep the comments and questions running over there. It’s just so much easier for us to keep track of them than all over social media. Though of course, we do like to chat with you guys all over the place. So, there we go.
Liz Wolfe: Alright, first question from Stephanie. This was a comment from the blog. “I too am interested to hear more about pee from Liz. I’m a super hydrator; aka super pee-er. TMI? Never! So I’d be interested in much more information on hydration for sure. Thanks for all you do ladies, and stay well.”
I got a ton of people tweeting, Instagramming; “more about pee, Liz! Let’s talk about urine!”
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. I feel like any time you throw out something that’s contrary to popular belief…
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: It gets a lot of questions. So yeah, as I sip on some water, go ahead and tell me about why I should stop sipping on my water {laughs}.
Liz Wolfe: That’s good. Yeah, stop it. No, you shouldn’t stop sipping on your water. I just keep thinking back to {laughs} I don’t know. There used to be this guy that worked in this building that I worked at in my other past life when I was a media buyer; media buying assistant, and he used to just carry around a gallon of water. {laughs} Like, I lift bro. this is my water. And it was always kind of funny. He was very nice.
But that’s kind of the image I think of when I think about the overall just conventional wisdom advice around hydration, which is just, “More is better! More water! All the water! All the time!” And really what I think we’re struggling with here, or the push/pull is between conventional wisdom, and we really don’t think of it as conventional wisdom. Because whether you’re, you know, on the food pyramid side or the vegan side or the paleo side, you know water is important to life, obviously. But people really, really, really go way overboard. And as with many things, more is not necessarily better. There’s that U shaped curve where too little is bad, and too much is bad, too.
So I did make a video on this ages ago, and then I got knocked up, and then I had a kid, and then I had a kid, and it just hasn’t gone up yet. But I will upload the video soon. I can’t even remember what I said in it, but I guess nothing has really changed in the conventional recommendations around hydration since I made the video, it’s still relevant.
I guess what I have to say is; I don’t know, the fitness and wellness community is just so into hydration. And like I said, yeah dehydration is of course bad, but overhydration is just as bad. It’s not actually bad; it’s definitely not good. Remember as real food people, we’re actually coming from a place of extremely water rich foods, and I don’t know if you ever notice, if you kind of have a, whatever you want to call it, a cheat day or a treat day or you eat something processed; let’s just call it that. If you eat something processed where the water has basically been processed out of it, you’ll always be really, really thirsty after you eat it. And really, that’s because our foods are supposed to contain water for the most part.
Chicken contains a ton of water; veggies, fruits, a ton of water. So once we switched to a diet based around real foods, we’re actually upping our hydration anyway, and that’s something I think people don’t often think about.
What else did I want to say? Oh, you know what’s really interesting, is actually a sign of overhydration is having a constant feeling of thirst and a really dry mouth. So if you’re drinking a ton of water yet you’re still thirsty, you might actually be dealing with overhydration. What I usually tell people is, just go with your thirst. Because not only is the convention advice around hydration from absolutely zero evidence; I mean, you can Google this. 8 glasses of water per day myth, or whatever the conventional advice is. It came from absolutely nothing, as many of our conventional nutrition recommendations did.
And the issue with being so obsessed with hydration; and again, like I said in the last episode, if you’re peeing clear and you’re peeing a lot, that’s really a sign that you’re probably taking in a little bit too much water. Because it manipulates the electrolyte balance at the cellular level, which can affect how your cells generate energy, and that’s a fundamental aspect of metabolism. So, again, I just tell people to go with your thirst, and replenish from exercise with something like a mix of water, lemon, pinch of sea salt for electrolytes, and coconut water for glucose. Sodium requires glucose for absorption in the intestine, and so that’s why we actually like glucose for this reason.
I don’t know what else to say, other than just put some context around these conventional recommendations for hydration and realize that there’s just absolutely no proof whatsoever that peeing clear and drinking a gallon of water a day is necessary or beneficial.
Diane Sanfilippo: I think there are a lot of confusions around the topic essentially the same way people want a prescriptive amount of food to be eating every day.
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: Or a prescriptive macro ratio or whatever it’s going to be; because we’ve been talking about that so much the last couple of months, even. And the truth is, this is just not one size fits all. There are tons of people who are listening who really are probably under hydrated and need to be drinking more water. And there are plenty who are listening who don’t need to be, and I do think that you’re thirst is a really great way to figure out if you need more water. I mean, the same way you get hungry and need to eat, I think a lot of times people do probably reach for food when they might be thirsty, but I think that’s not likely as common as we think within a real food community. I think there are a lot of people who may be bored, or stressed, or what have you, and are snacking and yeah, grabbing a glass of water would be a great idea if you’re eating when you’re not hungry. {laughs} That could be a good idea.
But yeah, I’m kind of with you. When I was doing my macro based plan, there definitely was a recommendation to be drinking a lot more water, and a part of me felt sort of guilty for not drinking more water.
Liz Wolfe: {laughing}
Diane Sanfilippo: Or like, {laughs} really. Or like it’s not working because I’m not drinking enough water. But then the stronger part of me felt like; I drink water when I’m thirsty. I can’t curse on our own show, but I would like to. You know, I just, I drink when I’m thirsty and I listen to my body. And if I was getting headaches and felt just a lot of other signs of dehydration, maybe I would up the ante, you know, with the liquids. But I’m with you; water-rich foods.
And hey, we had some gluten free pizza this past weekend, which was delicious {laughs}, and we were so thirsty.
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: And we pretty much know; I mean, I don’t know if we eat gluten-free pizza even once a month, but let’s just say it is. Anytime we do it, we’re so thirsty for the rest of that evening and into the next day. So, who knows if it’s just maybe the sodium content of the pizza or the fact that it’s totally not water-rich food. But very interesting.
And you know, the whole point of the discussion is just for people to not go too far the other way.
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: You know, just because some is good in a good amount is good, doesn’t mean more is always better. That’s kind of the moral of every story we tell, right?
Liz Wolfe: Yes. So in another past life.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing}
Liz Wolfe: {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: I love hearing about these! I didn’t know about these last two jobs of yours.
Liz Wolfe: I know! Well, now I’m just now thinking about how disparate they all have been.
Diane Sanfilippo: Mm-hmm.
Liz Wolfe: So, I worked for an energy company and; this is going to be controversial but I wasn’t there for long. But I worked as a land administrator for a company that does fracking. I’m sorry; cold bed methane. And, for a very short period of time, so please forgive hippies. But I think about it as a lot of what we were doing with these wells required a ton of water to maintain the machinery and to deal with the chemicals that were used in the drilling; I don’t know a whole lot about it. I didn’t stay that long.
But I think of water as; obviously it’s incredibly important to the overall functioning of the human machine, but we talk about this in the podcast, we talk about it in the Balanced Bites Master Class; real food comes with the components that are required to use it and digest it, so our bodies do need water to continue running and digest these foods and process them and all of that; so when the foods have all of the water stripped out, yeah, absolutely. You need to add some of that substance to keep things going; but when your food comes with a ton of water, you’re just naturally going to need a little less just in the course of your every day. If you’re exercising; if you’re doing something strenuous, which includes pregnancy, the hydration demands of pregnancy are greater than they probably are for someone who is not pregnant and sitting at a desk most of the day. Like you said, it varies from person to person.
But it’s just one of those things that is contained in a lot of real food in adequate amounts to digest properly and keep us running; keep us functioning.
Diane Sanfilippo: Word.
4. Orthorexia and paleo [25:58]
Liz Wolfe: Word. Alright, next one. This one’s from Katie. “I’m totally struggling with orthorexia, which honestly might be the root of a lot of my health issues. Maybe you could talk about this within the paleo community.” Ding, ding, ding, ding!
Diane Sanfilippo: Yes! This is a good one.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: So I just have a couple of notes here and then I may go off notes. But I do think this is a good question; we talked about it a bunch in the context of food eliminations and how often we’ll see folks get more and more restrictive, or just strict with their food choices in an effort to be eating a “better” or “cleaner” or more “perfectly paleo” diet. And we’ve even seen some people abuse protocols, like the autoimmune protocol or AIP, when it’s really sort of the orthorexia in disguise.
I think that the big thing that people need to understand is that there is not any such thing as one perfect diet. So striving for that and continuing to feel the need to have perfect control over what you’re eating, it definitely can be a big problem. I think; you know Liz, you and I were talking on a recent episode about how avoiding bad quality oils is your number one priority when you're dining out. Mine tends to be avoiding gluten and then kind of second to that or maybe even third, checking in on the oils. Not that I don’t agree that it’s a very important element, but just knowing what our bodies react to differently and where our values stand for every item that we’re choosing and also the types of restaurants that we might go to where we do or do not know what they’re cooking with.
But I think where this becomes a problem is when you notice that you’re no longer able to socialize with people who aren’t eating perfectly paleo, where you maybe start to fear leaving the house because you don’t know what you’re going to be able to eat, and I think that’s really the opposite of what we try to empower you guys to do with the information that we share. We don’t live like that. Like, Liz and I have very normal lifestyles where it’s not a challenge to incorporate with our families and our friends who don’t eat this way. And I think that we want to set that example that it’s not about everything being super strict.
Now, with the caveat here of; if you’re struggling with the health challenge and you’re working with a practitioner who wants you to follow a specific plan, and it is kind of restrictive; I think for a certain period of time, follow what the practitioner has you doing. I also think there’s a period of time where you might end up with a practitioner; where, if it’s like 6 months to a year and you just keep getting more and more restrictive, and you're not figuring things out, it might be time to find someone else to work with, because you may be working with someone who doesn’t understand that food is not the only thing causing your health problems. And in fact, it may not even be the thing at all, if you’re at a certain point with your emotional stress and other physical stressors, etc.
So, kind of on a few tangents here, but I do think that it becomes this sort of fear based way of sort of moving through the world where we think that if eating paleo is good, and other ways of eating are maybe not healthy, like the idea that it’s a binary decision, that something can either be healthy or not healthy and that’s it. And I think there’s a lot more gray area than that. And I think the gray area is each of us, the landscape of our own bodies, our constitution, creates some of that gray area. I think how our mindset is around when we’re eating, what we’re eating, and knowing what we know about ourselves.
So for the people who feel like maybe you’re very quick to give yourself a pass and you end up eating a lot more things that don’t make you feel good, that’s not who I’m talking about here. I’m talking about the people like Katie who is probably somebody who, when she goes out she ends up maybe not eating as much because she’s just afraid of the food and feeling like it’s just not healthy or it’s not the perfect choice for her at the time, and so that does become this issue around just a high level of control that is driven through fear. I think that’s kind of the root of everything for all of us.
The more we can learn, the more we’re educated about our choices, the more we’re educated about the way that we operate best in the world, the more we can be empowered and not have this orthorexic mindset. Which, I don’t know if we need to define orthorexia, but it’s basically this compulsion to eat perfectly. It’s a fear of not eating healthy or perfectly healthy food. Does that seem like the right…
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: The right description.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, it’s kind of like striving for this perfectionism, basically, with healthy eating.
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm. There’s a lot of talk about it, as well; I see in media outlets kind of mistaken; not mistakenly but, I don’t know, wrongly classifying something like paleo eating or real food eating as orthorexia. This is something totally different; it borders on life-altering obsession. Like can’t eat anything without being overwhelmingly concerned and paranoid about the consequences and whether it’s ok and how it’s going to affect you and all of these things. It’s a difference.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, and I think that’s where the fear comes in and being paralyzed by being able to make choices. We try and give you guys tools to make better choices through, but if you’re still feeling paralyzed then that’s the kind of situation where I would say step back and bit and try not to be so restrictive.
Somebody who is worried about orthorexia for example is not the type of person I would say, “Yes, take on a 21-Day Sugar Detox.” Because if you take on a food challenge, and you feel like you’re dealing with orthorexia, then all you’re doing is giving yourself even more limitations and constraints, and that’s only going to feed into it. And I think there are some people for whom those challenges become kind of a disguise for the orthorexia, and I think that’s not something I want to encourage. I think the tools are great for people who need the guidance, but for somebody who really doesn’t need it and is using it or abusing it in that way, I think it’s important to be careful.
So you know, I think sort of the upside here, because she’s asking about this in the context, obviously, of the paleo community which is what we are part of. People like myself, Robb Wolf, Chris Kresser, obviously you, Mark Sisson, none of us are teaching perfectionism as the goal. None of us are. So I think, if there’s anything I do want to say about having this position that somebody might put me in of authority, which I think is sometimes hilarious, and sometimes like, wow thank you, I appreciate that. But I take it very seriously, and I do think it’s important. You know, we’ve been talking about this stuff almost 5 years on this podcast, so we’ve been those voices for people. And I do think that it’s all of our responsibility to make sure that’s not the message that we’re sending.
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: You know, that it’s not; we’re not trying to create a fear based situation here. And you know, Mark Sisson talked about this last year at PaleoFx, this whole, “what can you get away with” is really the better mindset of; well if you can add back some of these foods, then you basically should. And you should have no reason to be afraid.
And I think there might be some people who throw around the word orthorexia just in criticism of paleo. You’re friends are like, “Oh, you’re being orthorexic because you’re not eating gluten and you’re not celiac.” So, you know, it might just be a lack of understanding of how serious that word can be. So yeah.
Liz Wolfe: I feel like we could spend a whole episode on this concept.
Diane Sanfilippo: We probably could. I would love to hear what people think about it. I would love to hear how people deal with the questions or sort of accusations if they do get some that are along these lines. If you guys ever feel like you’re getting to that place where you’re taking it too far because I think for people who are really new, I feel like that’s a little more common.
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: And I think there are some people who get there within the first one to two years where they take it even more extreme, and then I feel like what we’ve seen in the last maybe 6 or 7 years of doing this stuff is that most people do come around to relaxing {laughs} on it.
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: Because they realize they're not going to die if they eat something that wasn’t paleo. And in fact that might feel even great doing that once they’ve kind of healed their bodies a bit. But anyway.
Liz Wolfe: There’s so much; oh man, going on for people. It’s like; it’s not just about food. It’s about; I mean, your emotional state growing up, where you can exert control in your life and where you feel out of control. There’s just so many layers to these types of struggles.
Diane Sanfilippo: yeah.
Liz Wolfe: And it takes some patience peeling back those layers, and figuring it out, and I think for me it took a while but I did relax, I was able to kind of let go. There’s definitely light at the end of the tunnel. You just have to be really willing to explore all of these dark corners to figure it out.
Diane Sanfilippo: Agreed.
5. Adaptogens during pregnancy [35:47]
Liz Wolfe: Ok, so this one is from our friend Jenny; yay Jenny! “You guys talked about adaptogens in the latest podcast, and I’m curious about your thoughts on taking those during pregnancy and/or breastfeeding. Seems that if there’s ever a time to boost your adrenals in preparation for collapse it’s during this phase of life. I’m pregnant with my second, and I’d love to be better prepared for the loss of sleep, etc., than I was with my first. Of course, all the bottles say ‘check with your practitioner before taking during pregnancy or breastfeeding’ and I’m just curious about what you guys might do.”
So, Jenny also actually stopped by RealFoodLiz.com to ask this question, and I don’t know if my internet is fast enough to pull up what I said to her.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing}
Liz Wolfe: {laughs} No, I don’t think it is. Basically what I said was; I’m not entirely sure. I just don’t recommend a whole lot of things in pregnancy that are not really, really tried and true or aren’t just basic nutrient building block type things. I guess pre-pregnancy you can probably play around a little bit with adaptogens if they’re part of a larger overall quest to mitigate the effects of stress and also stop stress from popping up and from being a huge impact in your life. What; I think maybe it was that podcast that Jenny is talking about where I said something like; you can’t expect adaptogens to treat stress. You have to be getting rid of the overall stressors. They’re a good way to help your body deal with more acute stress, but they can’t fix the long-term effects of chronic stress.
So, I think what I said to Jenny was something to the effect of, I would really just focus on loading up on nutrients so that your body can deal with the inevitable stress of pregnancy and the postpartum phase because those are just hard. They’re grueling. That’s the word for it; they’re grueling. And part of that is inescapable, just because we don’t have those villages that maybe people had in the recent past, and the very distant past as well. It’s in a way inevitable.
And I think that to the degree you can keep things really relaxed, do as little as possible for as long as possible, whether that’s a few weeks of maternity leave or a few months, then do as little as you can. Don’t stress yourself out with trying to get your body back, or whatever you want to call it. Really just be kind to yourself. Load up on nutrients.
I have some slightly different supplement recommendations when it comes to specific nutrients, and getting them from real food versus supplementation, so I’m a little more liberal with the different sources of supplements you could use; for example, fat soluble vitamins in breastfeeding than I am during pregnancy and pre-pregnancy. So load up on the nutrients, I guess while you’re pregnant. Get them as much as possible from real food and whole food based prenatals. If you go into pregnancy a little bit depleted, there are a couple of prenatals that are not based around whole foods but that are still effective and well designed you can use. Make sure you’re getting vitamins A, D, K2, and especially a little bit of E as well. And I think vitamin C; I really think that’s the way to go about it.
If anybody disagrees or is really well versed in adaptogens during that time of life, I’d be glad to hear from you. But to this point, it’s not really something that I get into and recommend.
Diane Sanfilippo: Ok. I mean, I’m with you on that. I wouldn’t know what to really advise someone who is pregnant or breastfeeding. And I think; was I talking about taking some adaptogens, because I do take them now while I’m dealing with kind of a stressful time just working on a big project. But that is aligned with taking lots of other measures to kind of get my stress in check, and that just sort of helps and supports the process. You know.
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: It helps and supports the brain chemistry alongside the lifestyle changes, which truthfully the lifestyle changes are primary. I mean, we talk about food and nutrition all this stuff all the time, but nutrition is not more important than lifestyle and vice-versa. Because you know tons of people who don’t eat maybe as well as some people that we know and they can be healthier because they just have less stress and a better, positive mental outlook and all of that. So yeah. I think good tips.
You know, if you work with a naturopath, that’s somebody that might be good to ask. Where it says check with your practitioner; perhaps your medical doctor may or may not know. I’m not going to lump them all into one category; we do have lots of MD’s who are kind of along this more integrative, holistic approach. But if you are working with someone who has that mindset, definitely ask them. Go for it.
Liz Wolfe: You know what, that brings up something interesting. So given this is a really stressful time; pre-pregnancy, pregnancy, postpartum, breastfeeding, all of that. It’s wonderful to stick to a whole, real food diet. But keep in mind; this is just total blasphemy, I’m sure. Keep in mind that when you are chronically irreversibly stressed during that time where you are not sleeping, where you are convinced that you are going to completely ruin this tiny thing, you have no idea what you’re doing, you have no idea why you did. You’re just; my god, what have I done? Really depressing. Your body is not just burning through nutrients, your body is burning through glucose. And I really think there’s a huge argument for allowing your body to have a little bit more of the simple easily digested quick fuel during that time. Tons of fruit, maybe even a little bit of sugar, some gluten free pizza.
Don’t be so obsessive perfectionist that you’re; excuse me. I’m not entirely recovered from my throat issue last week. You don’t want to be some completely like; “oh gosh, I have to be perfect; real food, paleo, whatever so I can breastfeed so I can be healthy for this baby.” You also need energy. You need your body to be able to recruit energy quickly so you can respond the way you need to respond, so you can generate energy effectively during that time.
So don’t be afraid of a little bit of, you know, treat type stuff. Full fat ice cream, some Haagen Dazs. Stuff without a lot of wonky ingredients. Don’t just think about being as paleo as you possibly can; think about getting in tons of nutrition, but also tons of just fuel for your body, because that’s a tough time and you really do need it. Especially during those first couple of weeks. Years; let’s be honest, years. The thing that I would mostly just try…
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing}
Liz Wolfe: {laughs} Try to avoid is bad fats and highly processed foods; corn syrup, things like that. But you know, you go to a Natural Grocer’s, those places are stuffed full of gluten free, fairly clean treats and stuff like that. So just go for it. Fuel yourself above all.
6. Question about poop [43:24]
Liz Wolfe: Next one?
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. Do you think we should jump to a poop question next?
Liz Wolfe: Oh, yeah!
Diane Sanfilippo: Let’s do this poop question.
Liz Wolfe: For sure.
Diane Sanfilippo: I love a poop question.
Liz Wolfe: You love a good poop question. Alright, this is from Shan via your website. “So what causes pellet poop, but not the rocky hard type and hard to pass, just pellet poop like grapes? Frequency once every two days. My sister had them for over 6 months now; it’s really bad because since last July we’ve been desperately trying to figure it out, but have no answers. Nothing worked for her.”
More information; do you need more information here?
Diane Sanfilippo: Um, you can read this. Yeah, go ahead.
Liz Wolfe: More info; it is affecting her in these ways. {laughs} You’re grape-like poop is affecting me in the following ways.
Diane Sanfilippo: Mm-hmm.
Liz Wolfe: Ok, so “can’t chew well, she has difficulty chewing, weak teeth, very sensitive to hot foods and liquids, poor gum health, gap in the upper front teeth and tooth pain. I can’t figure out the cause for her; she’s never seen doctors. This started last July and it stresses us out so much because nothing seems to work or it worsens her symptoms. We’ve tried so many things and it’s really frustrating.”
Diane Sanfilippo: So the one thing we didn’t get as far as background information on this, and I didn’t dig back in, but I’m pretty sure we would have had this entered into our document here if it was in there, is what she’s eating and what her whole situation is kind of as a history in terms of any illness or things like that.
So let me just clarify this; what she’s describing is constipation. I mean, it doesn’t have to be rocky and hard and super hard to pass. If it’s pellets and it’s happening once every two days, then you're constipated; for sure.
It’s not normal to only eliminate once every two days in this type of form. That’s not normal; we should be going every single day at least once a day. That’s normal. And since last July; so that is, you know, she’s over 6 months, we’re almost approaching closer to a year now and I think this question came in pretty recently. So, approaching close to a year now. That’s a really long time.
So a couple of things that I would say for her to look back at; number one, did she have an illness right around the time that that started, and if so, was she taking antibiotics at the time because if she did, and she wiped out a bunch of her gut flora and changed the bacterial landscape in her gut, that is going to significantly impact the way that she is digesting food. Also, and probably most obviously, what is she eating and what is different now than it was at that time? So if that’s the time that she changed over from eating perhaps a Standard American Diet or conventional wisdom healthy diet to paleo, if she went from eating a lot more starchy carbohydrates to ditching all of those and going meat, vegetables, fats and fruits, then she may be missing a lot of the carbohydrates that are starchy for feeding the gut bacteria and getting some bulk into the stool. I mean, that is something that we really do need if we’re having this problem.
But a lot of what she’s describing here; we are not medical professionals, we are not doctors, we’re not diagnosing anything, but a lot of what she’s describing with the weak teeth and the sensitive gums and all of this pain, it can be nutrient deficiencies. It can be happening from just not digesting and absorbing nutrients from your food. Difficulty chewing; I don’t really know what that’s about. I don’t know if she is just having pain in the jaw when she’s chewing; if her mouth is dry and she’s not able to chew and break down food because of the lack of saliva; if she means more swallowing, a lot of this stuff could also point to celiac disease. Some people think about digestive and GI issues as being more often related to diarrhea, but constipation is actually very, very common, and it’s a very common effect of celiac disease.
Shan said she has never seen doctors. Well, why? Why is she not going to a doctor about this issue? If she’s experiencing all of these significant medical symptoms, then I would definitely recommend getting to a doctor. Of course, if she can find a naturopath or someone who is going to take her down hopefully a slightly more holistic route to work with diet and lifestyle first and maybe some supplementation, that’s all really important. Getting some good starchy carbohydrates into her diet, you’re going to get the soluble fiber from that. So I’m talking about squash, sweet potato, you can do this with fruit as well. Thinking about fruits that are softer; something like a banana or a mango versus blueberries. So you’re going to get more soluble fiber from that than you will from something that just has more surface area of skin, so blueberry is going to have more insoluble fiber because of that skin versus a banana which is more soluble fiber, it’s going to help bulk what’s happening with her digestion.
80% of the dry weight of our elimination of our stool is bacteria, so probiotics need to come into her body. Again, I’m just really picturing that she got hit with some antibiotics or some kind of massive stressor to her system that would have wiped out the bacteria. She could have been traveling, anywhere; traveling abroad, had eaten something that caused major bouts of diarrhea that would have blanked that out, and she needs to get some probiotic content into there, whether that’s through food or a supplement. I’ve got one linked on my website, it’s called Prescript Assist. If you go to BalancedBites.com/Shop, just if you want to find it more easily, you can find it that way or just find it anywhere. I believe it’s sold on Amazon. But if she’s not getting enough out then that’s something I would definitely look into, because this is of utmost importance.
One of the other things; I mentioned celiac disease; hypothyroidism is a huge reason for constipation, but there’s just so many things that go into that until you kind of attack the dietary component to this along with the probiotic component, I wouldn’t say; oh, get tested for hypothyroidism, you’re probably… I wouldn’t say that you’re hypothyroid unless you’re kind of doing everything right and that’s not working. That’s when you might have a more clinical issue going on. But I think all of that is worth looking into.
I don’t know why, also Shan, you’re taking the responsibility to figure it out for her. And I’m not saying that that’s bad of you as a sister; it’s very loving and caring, but for more than 6 months if somebody is constipated, that is a medical issue. So, I mean, I’m just trying to give you guys the weight of this so that you understand that this needs to be something that you’re getting more help with. Because it is toxic to our bodies to not eliminate regularly. We’re just allowing what we’ve eaten to sit longer and longer in our colon. And that’s the kind of thing; I do not like to be somebody who tries to scare people about anything, but that is the type of thing that leads to things like diverticulitis and colon cancer. If we’re constipated chronically.
So, it’s extremely important. I take this stuff very seriously. I take poop very seriously. {laughs} It’s really a serious thing if somebody; back when I was working one on one with people, if somebody was constipated before I even dealt with anything else, I’m like; we have to get to the root of this constipation. It’s really critical. So that’s kind of my full thought on that. I don’t know if you have anything further that you want to add to that. But that is what I’m thinking.
Liz Wolfe: Very good. I think we should wrap it up with that.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. And hey, whatever happened over 6 months ago when it started, it could also have been a physical; not physical. It could have been an emotional trauma as well, so when I mentioned an illness or something, it could be a bad breakup, somebody passed away, something like that. So I’m just kind of throwing that out there, too.
Liz Wolfe: And see a doctor; we are not doctors. We can give you ideas to take to your doctor. But for something super serious, don’t rely on a podcast.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, for sure.
Liz Wolfe: For ultimately treatment.
Diane Sanfilippo: And constipation is that serious, and when I say constipation it’s not like one day randomly you just didn’t go and something was off and then you kind of get back on track. Same thing with diarrhea; randomly here and there it’s not, that’s not what I’m talking about. Bouts over and over of diarrhea multiple times in a day for multiple days; problem. Not going to the bathroom every single day at least once for more than a week or so; I’m just throwing this number out there, but that’s not ok. We definitely need to be getting help there.
Liz Wolfe: Very good.
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7. #Treatyoself: kombucha and kale chips [53:31]
Liz Wolfe: Ok, so do we have a #treatyoself of the week?
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: This is really sad if this is your treat yoself, but I want you to go for it.
Diane Sanfilippo: I’ve sunken to a new low that this is a treat. Mind you, we do this every week now, ok, so sometimes it rotates about who’s talking about a treat. But we’re talking about treats every single week. I am a creature of habit; I don’t have a new treat every week that I’m taking in.
Liz Wolfe: Right.
Diane Sanfilippo: Or even every other week. Alright, so with that said, it is a new low to be saying that this is a treat.
Liz Wolfe: {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: But kombucha and kale chips.
Clip: Three words for you; Treat. Yo. Self.
Diane Sanfilippo: Like, a mango kombucha; I like the synergy one. It’s kind of sweet to me. If someone else drinks it and thinks it’s not sweet I apologize. And a bag of kale chips; I do like the Trader Joe’s ones, partially because they’re less expensive than the $50 kale chips at Whole Foods. {laughs} I really think the kale chip industry…
Liz Wolfe: {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: Is one that people have been very wise to find themselves manufacturing dried green leafy vegetables.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: That can be purchased very cheaply and sold very inexpensively. But Trader Joe’s has them for a pretty reasonable price. So kombucha and kale chips. I find that that is like a comfort food and a treat and I recognize that that’s strange. But I’m going with it, and that’s been my treat recently.
Liz Wolfe: Sounds good to me, in a really weird way.
Diane Sanfilippo: You don’t even like kale; it doesn’t sound good to you.
Liz Wolfe: Well, I like; I do like kale chips, actually.
Diane Sanfilippo: They’re different.
Liz Wolfe: They’re crumbly, they’re salty; add a little brewer’s yeast, they’re super good. Tastes a little cheesy. I get it; I totally get it. But I’m not going to prepare them because it takes like 87 bunches of kale to make an acceptable amount of kale chips.
Diane Sanfilippo: Oh, that’s not really true, but the way that they make them, these companies who have figured it out with the cashew or sunflower seed or whatever they’re using to make them kind of thick and more than that crispy just thin, falls apart thing that happens when we make them at home.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: Whoever figured that out; genius, gold star for you.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: Thank you very much, I love ‘em. I love ‘em.
Liz Wolfe: I love it.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: Alright, I think that’s going to be it for this week, yes?
Diane Sanfilippo: Yes.
Liz Wolfe: Yes. You can find me, Liz, at http://realfoodliz.com/ and you can find Diane at http://dianesanfilippo.com. Join our email lists for free goodies and updates that you don’t find anywhere else on our website or on the podcast. While you’re on the internet, please leave us an iTunes review. See you next week.