Podcast Episode #371: Copper IUDs & Histamine Intolerance

Topics

1. News and updates from Diane & Liz [1:53]
   1. Keto Quick Start book tour
   2. Transcendental meditation course
2. Easy breakfast ideas [10:24]
3. Listener question: Copper IUD [14:45]
4. Listener question: Histamine intolerance [20:09]
5. Favorite workout moves [27:19]

Balanced Bites Master Class

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You’re listening to the Balanced Bites podcast episode 371.

Diane Sanfilippo: Welcome to the Balanced Bites podcast. I’m Diane; a certified nutrition consultant, and the New York Times bestselling author of Practical Paleo and the 21-Day Sugar Detox. My newest book, Keto Quick Start, will release on January 1, 2019. I live in San Francisco with my husband and fur kids.

Liz Wolfe: I’m Liz; a nutritional therapy practitioner, and author of the Wall Street Journal bestseller Eat the Yolks; The Purely Primal Skincare Guide; and the online program Baby Making and Beyond. I live on a lake in the mystical land of the Midwest, outside of Kansas City.

We’re the co-creators of the Balanced Bites Master Class, and we’ve been bringing you this award-winning podcast for more than 7 years. We’re here to share our take on modern healthy living, answer your questions, and chat with leading health and wellness experts. Enjoy this week’s episode, and submit your questions at http://blog.balancedbites.com or watch the Balanced Bites podcast Instagram account for our weekly calls for questions. You can ask us anything in the comments.

Remember our disclaimer: The materials and content within this podcast are intended as general information only, and are not to be considered a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Before we get started, let’s hear from one of our sponsors.

Diane Sanfilippo: Today’s podcast is sponsored by Perfect Keto. Dr. Anthony Gustin and his teams have created a line of supplements that are super clean and effective, no matter what your dietary needs. I’ve been blending their MCT oil powder into my matcha latte lately. Not only are MCTs; medium chain triglycerides; a premium source of your body’s preferred type of energy, and help to fuel your brain and body, but there’s also no added taste. It makes your coffee or matcha wonderfully creamy. Check them out at PerfectKeto.com and use the code BALANCED for 20% off at Perfect Keto; and their sister site, Equip Foods.

1. News and updates from Diane & Liz [1:53]

Liz Wolfe: Alright. So, Diane, what’s happening over by the Bay?

Diane Sanfilippo: Well, plans are underway for the Keto Quick Start tour, which I’m super excited about. I think those of you who listen to this show pretty well know that touring, once my books are done, is my favorite thing. I think a lot of people don’t love it. People don’t love to travel.

Liz Wolfe: a lot of people…

Diane Sanfilippo: Most people.

Liz Wolfe: Or your person that’s on the podcast with you right now? {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: I think most people don’t love to do it.

Liz Wolfe: It’s hard. It’s grueling.

Diane Sanfilippo: I think it’s fun. It’s the best part of writing a book for me. And I think that’s how I know that live events are the thing I need to be doing more of. Because it’s the thing I always feel; I’m exhausted by it, but I’m also totally energized by it. Not in a; I will be done with the event, and I’m like; let me go somewhere quietly and eat a hotel picnic on my bed by myself {laughs}. I don’t want to talk to anyone.

But in terms of feeling motivated and fired up about the work that I’m doing, nothing does that like actually getting in the room, hearing the questions, talking to people, connecting, hearing your stories. All of that. That to me is the reward for the super isolating work of writing a book. There’s no other word to describe it. It’s just super isolating.

But, I’m really excited. I think it’s going to be fun. So we’re fleshing out the dates. And I was chatting with Liz about maybe coming to see her, and roping her into at least one thing with me, maybe two? We’ll see what happens.

Liz Wolfe: One, maybe two?

Diane Sanfilippo: What?

Liz Wolfe: One; maybe two?

Diane Sanfilippo: One, maybe two.

Liz Wolfe: Hey, while I’m here. Why don’t we just do one more event in a city close to you.

Diane Sanfilippo: I’m like, Liz. Just come on. Just come with me. It will be fun, they said! So yeah. Stay tuned for that. Of course, we’ll announce it here. I do want to recommend that you head over to www.blog.balancedbites.com at the top of the website, I’ve got a little place for you to drop your email. We’ll be having some fun preorder bonuses. Some special shopping lists for some stores that we love and what you can buy there that’s keto friendly. So just kind of getting all that planning underway. So I hope to see you at one of our tour stops. And that’s kind of the update on that front.

What’s going on over by the lake?

Liz Wolfe: Well, I don’t think I’ve even told you this, yet. I am done with my transcendental meditation course that I decided to take. I’d been thinking about it for a long time. Getting interested in meditation, but I have not been able to make a go of any of these apps or any of these things that are supposed to hep you meditate. I’ll turn on the Calm app or the Headspace app, and I’m like; what am I doing? I’m literally just thinking about what I’m going to eat later. Am I supposed to be zoning out? Am I supposed to be concentrating? What’s the take home? What am I supposed to be doing here?

So I like to learn from experts. And I know you can take; transcendental meditation sounds woo. It sounds kind of like freaky, complicated, I don’t know. It just sounds; the word transcendental is intimidating. But the reason I’m so interested in it is because it’s a technique. It’s not a philosophy. So you're not buying into; oh, you should eat this way, and you should live this way. There’s no lifestyle. There’s no philosophy around it. It really is just a technique so that you can kind of transcend that surface level bubbling of distractions and daily life. You can kind of get a little bit deeper using a really simple concept of a mantra that you actually get from the person that’s teaching you in the TM course.

You do have to pay for it. I understand why they want to do it this way, because they want to kind of keep the instruction of the concept pure, to ensure that everybody is getting the same instruction. Because I think with a concept like this, it’s something that could be very easily diluted, and misinterpreted, and passed along incorrectly.

So I had just gotten to the point; it’s been about a year since I went to the cardiologist for the heart palpitations that I was having, and the cardiologist telling me they were stress induced. And since then I’ve been on this journey to just get as many tools in my toolbox as possible. So I started out with a therapist. And then when I was ready, I layered on exercise. And then I was ready to tackle meditation.

In part, because I don’t know if we’re going to have another kid. But I recognize I have no business having another one unless I take this opportunity in between children to give myself as many tools and ways to cope as I possibly can. So I decided to go ahead and take the course. It was a pretty low time investment. It’s 4 days in a row, an hour and a half each day. And my husband happens to be in town this week, so I was able to make a go of it without having to get a babysitter.

So, the first session you have one on one with the instructor, and that’s where you kind of meditate for the first time with your mantra. You receive your mantra and whatnot. And by the way, I don’t think I’m supposed to tell people what the mantra is, but I think what I’m saying right now is publicly available information. Sorry, Transcendental meditation people, if it’s not.

And then the next three are group instruction. Each time, you kind of learn a little bit more, and get a little bit better versed in what you're doing and why you're doing it.

And it was really cool, the first time I meditated in that first session, I did so for 20 minutes. And I could have sworn it was 5 minutes. So it really is a technique that actually has me feeling like I’m doing something productive. That I’m actually meditating, and having the desired effects, versus kind of sitting there with the Headspace app on, kind of wondering what I’m supposed to be doing. So I’ve been really happy with it, and I’m glad I did the course. It’s something I’ve been thinking about for quite some time, but wasn’t really ready to make the financial investment. So that’s been good.

Diane Sanfilippo: I love that.

Liz Wolfe: Did you think I was going to tell you I was pregnant? {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: I did not.

Liz Wolfe: OK, good.

Diane Sanfilippo: But that sounds exciting. I feel like there’s all these things I want to try and do, and I feel like that’s now on the list, because it sounds awesome. I keep not being able to add to the list until I finish some kind of project. Which I know is the worst. But that’s going on my list. When this book goes to print. Because that sounds super practical and useful. And I love it. I totally want to try that.

Liz Wolfe: Another thing that’s cool about it, is it has been studied in pretty decent detail. So I feel like there was a good amount of scientific evidence to back up the practice. And I liked that, as well.

Diane Sanfilippo: Do you find; if you could name one tangible benefit to your everyday life that you kind of notice yourself; I don’t know, perceiving things differently, or responding or reacting, or not reacting and just responding. What do you see as the biggest tangible outcome? It’s only recent, but.

Liz Wolfe: That’s a good question. I might have to report back on that, because I haven’t been doing it for very long. But I do think; number one, I think I gain a lot of self esteem from actually doing it. I feel like I’ve taken a short amount of time to myself, and that’s always a good thing. I do think my default tolerance level for just the general BS of any given day is a little bit better. I feel like I’ve got a little extra wiggle room before I hit that wall and feel like I’m just over it. So that’s good. But I’ll definitely report back.

2. Easy breakfast ideas [10:24]

Liz Wolfe: Alright. Let’s give folks some easy breakfast ideas. I like this. I like this question.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: I like this segment. So my easy breakfast ideas. And actually, I had this twice in the last two days, is a breakfast wrap. We’ll say usually about two eggs from pasture raised chickens. Sometimes some sautéed onion if I’ve got that sitting in the fridge. Usually a couple of slices of avocado, and sometimes a little sprinkle of cheese, sometimes a sprinkle of hot sauce. And I will either use a Siete foods cassava and chia tortilla, or a, I think it’s Coco-Nuco coconut meat wrap. Which I love with eggs. It’s kind of like a sweet and savory and it’s super good.

Diane Sanfilippo: That sounds really good.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: I’m a big fan of those tortillas, as well.

Liz Wolfe: The coconut ones, or the Siete foods ones, or both?

Diane Sanfilippo: The Siete ones. I really like the chia ones; my favorite are the coconut cassava. But yeah, I think they’re awesome. That sounds really good. I should probably start making breakfast wraps.

So my big thing is breakfast salad. I think a lot of people … {laughs} Any time I talk about kale or salad…

Liz Wolfe: I’ve made friends with kale. We’re at peace with each other now.

Diane Sanfilippo: I’m really glad to hear that. Next up, avocado toast.

Liz Wolfe: {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: But I was super into arugula for a long time, and decided; let me just try baby kale again.

Liz Wolfe: Who says that? “I was super into arugula…”

Diane Sanfilippo: I say it.

Liz Wolfe: Foodies say that. Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: Listen. Listen, Linda.

Liz Wolfe: It’s good.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} So culturally relevant. Quoting a YouTube meme-ish video. But baby kale, I'm into it. I like the idea of changing up your leafy greens. I think I’m going to have to move towards watercress at some point.

Liz Wolfe: {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: I feel like watercress is the new kale. We’ll see.

Liz Wolfe: It totally is.

Diane Sanfilippo: I don’t know if it can be cooked. I don’t know. Can it be cooked?

Liz Wolfe: Everything in the hipster district of town in sprinkled with watercress. Everything.

Diane Sanfilippo: I remember glamping when I was a kid. I’m going to call it glamping, because there were cabins and running water, which is how I like to camp {laughs}. I’m not into the tent thing. I’m not outdoorsy, really. But I remember we were at Frost Valley YMCA camping place. It was like, dad’s and daughter’s thing we used to do. And we used to always see watercress growing by the side of these rivers. I just remember always being like; what is that? It kind of looks like food, and it kind of looks like weeds. That’s all I remembered about watercress. And now it’s literally everywhere. It’s the new thing.

Well, I’ll get there, and I’ll report back. But I’ve been into the breakfast salad thing with baby kale, or arugula, it just kind of depends. Bitter greens are so good for you, you guys. They’re great for your liver. I know we talk about liver detox sometimes. Maybe we’ll talk about it more as time moves on. But bitter greens are just such a great food to be eating. And if you're eating keto, you want to be getting tons of leafy greens. So eat it. Do it.

I like fried eggs on my salad, so you can get the runny yolk, some bacon, all the goodness.

Liz Wolfe: Such a good sauce. Runny yolk.

Diane Sanfilippo: Oh, the best.

Liz Wolfe: Yep.

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3. Listener question: Copper IUD [14:45]

Liz Wolfe: Okie dokie. Two questions today. We’re going to talk about copper IUDs, and we’re going to talk a little bit about histamine intolerance.

First question. “Hi ladies! Love the podcast. I’ll save you the backstory, and just jump in. I’m looking to start a family at the start of the new year. So I’ll be taking out my copper IUD. I’ve had this same IUD for 6 years, and I’m wondering if there are some things you might recommend doing after removing it to help my body recover, and just create a healthy strong environment for conception. I recall Liz mentioning she had an IUD and removed it because it didn’t agree with her. Mine doesn’t seem to be causing me any problems aside from longer, heavy flows approximate 5-6 days every month.

I chose the copper IUD because it doesn’t have hormones, but I’ve heard it creates low-grade inflammation in the body. Is there a time period you would recommend waiting between removal and conception? Any hot tips? I’m sure I’ll be fine. Quite healthy; eat a paleo diet, exercise regularly. Just looking to support my body in this big transition.

Liz, if you need a tester or experiential review for the Baby Making and Beyond program, I’m all in.”

Well, thank you for that offer. We do; I would imagine, this gal, she listens to the podcast, she’s hopefully on our email lists and is on the beta tester list. Because I think, as of the airing of this podcast, the beta window will have closed. We will have taken in all the beta testers that we are going to have, and we’re going to be starting up work with them. So, let’s have fingers crossed for that.

I think; my gut here, and I feel like my mission, I’ve been trying to articulate my mission with Baby Making and Beyond to myself kind of constantly, because it’s all I ever think about. And today what I was thinking is; my mission is to really keep people from freaking out. To wit, I would say, if you feel good, and you weren’t bothered by your copper IUD, I’d say it’s probably not affecting you negatively, and you can just have it taken out.

I’d give it 30 days, because it does cause kind of a low-grade inflammation level in your cervix, and you want a nice, happy cervix. I mean, who doesn’t want a nice, happy cervix? But I think there are quite a few reasons to do so. So I’d give it about 30 days. And just focus on zinc-rich foods. If there was any issue with the copper in the IUD, you’ll want to counter that with good zinc intake from your diet. I don’t think it’s necessary to supplement.

And just basically focusing on the type of recommendations that we make in Baby Making and Beyond. A fertility diet, super foods, the proper supplementation. Whether or not you have a copper IUD, I would definitely recommend starting with a solid prenatal as well as potentially a phospholipid supplement. Start getting a good amount of choline. If you can do four egg yolks every day, then that’s great. If not, you might look for a choline supplement.

You could also look at DHA in phospholipid form if you're not getting enough EPA and DHA from your seafood intake. So I would count that up; double check. Because that’s going to be a really good way to keep inflammation in balance. Eat some liver. Make sure you're getting enough folate. Because a lot of people don’t know that folate does the important work before many of us even know we’re pregnant. So that’s another big one, as well.

I know there are folks that really get kind of spun up about the copper IUD. And I understand. I think there are a lot of reasons why people might not tolerate a copper IUD. Just having a foreign object in your body for extended periods of time can cause people a lot of issues. But not everybody. So just because some people have really negative experiences with the copper IUD does not mean everybody will.

My views on the copper IUD were kind of formed in hindsight. If I remember correctly, it’s been so long now, I need to go back to some of the writing I did about it when it was first going on. But I think the inflammation caused by the copper IUD might have led to some abnormal paps that completely resolved after I had it removed. I have not had one since. So I think I probably wouldn’t go back and do that again, but I do know many people for whom it works really well.

The funniest thing about my experience with the copper IUD is that it was inserted by a near-sighted gynecologist on the brink of retirement, and his name was Dr. Bush. So.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing}

Liz Wolfe: {laughs} You didn’t know you were going to get that one today.

Diane Sanfilippo: I mean, if we’re all about puns, was it today or last night where you saw the pun about the T-shirt that was like; a doula who is at your service. {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: Yes! That was so good. Diane, ok folks. Diane had actually a really wonderful post on her Instagram requesting information on business run by women of color. Which was really cool to see all the responses that people came through and left. It was really neat, so I highly suggest everyone go and check out that thread.

One of the responses was about a midwife who had been wearing a T-shirt that said something like; Midwife at your Cervix. I just thought it was the best thing I’d ever heard in my whole life. {laughs} The universe knew I needed to see that that day.

Diane Sanfilippo: it’s good stuff.

4. Listener question: Histamine intolerance [20:09]

Liz Wolfe: Alright, next up. This question is about histamine intolerance. “Any information or thoughts on histamine intolerance? I’ve been hearing about it a little bit on the internet, but not seeing any good information and not sure who to trust on the matter. A little background; before going paleo/real food based eating, I would get hives and itchy skin all the time. Doctors told me I produce too much histamine, and had me take Zyrtec daily. Now that I’ve been eating real foods for the last four years, I’ve not had to take Zyrtec to help. However, lately I’ve been getting itchy at times, and I always struggle with acne and hormonal skin. Although, Beautycounter has helped some of that as of late. I would love to know your thoughts.”

Since I basically talked on the last one, do you want to jump in with any thoughts? {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Yeah, I can throw out a few notes here for Colleen. A couple of things; first and foremost, by switching your diet over to real food, you're definitely, obviously serving yourself well by stripping out tons of refined foods. Which, the problem with that is they’re most likely just promoting inflammation in your gut. And if you're dealing with a histamine intolerance, chances are, it’s rooted in something else. It’s an immune response. So if you're finding that you're reacting to foods that other people don’t react to, then there’s usually some other root cause. It’s not necessarily that you can’t or shouldn’t ever eat sauerkraut, for example.

So, just so people know what we’re talking about with high histamine foods. In general, foods that have been fermented are high histamine. Vinegar containing foods, cured meats, anything that’s sour like sour cream, aged cheeses, citrus fruits, some vegetables like tomatoes and avocados. Smoked fish. There are a lot of foods that are high in histamine, and a lot of us would never identify them as a source of any problems. We’re eating those foods all the time.

So there could be a couple of reasons why you're suddenly experiencing this reincrease in your response. The first could be an increase in your stress, which will increase leaky gut. If there’s anything going on in your life that is promoting leaky gut; and you can go back to Practical Paleo if you have it, look at the digestion section where I talk about leaky gut. There are a lot of things that contribute to leaky gut, whether you're taking non-steroidal anti-inflammatories, whether it’s, as I said, stress. You're drinking more alcohol. Whether you’ve increased your exercise, which could be increasing stress. Which could promote leaky gut for some people, if it’s just too much for you.

Or you could have added some things to your diet; that you're attempting to be really healthy, but maybe you're eating too many fermented foods now, and it’s just too much for you. It could also be that you're experiencing small intestinal bacterial overgrowth. We’ve talked about that a bunch on the show, if you want to do a quick search for SIBO. Or on the homepage of www.blog.balancedbites.com there’s a whole guide to SIBO there, as well.

But all of these different factors can play into this sort of reigniting of a histamine intolerance. In terms of getting itchy or having issues with acne or hormonal flareups. It’s all connected, so it’s really hard to know; chicken or egg. Is it that you're eating too many of these foods, and that’s just the intensity of that histamine load is too much for you? Or is it that there’s something going on that’s causing your gut to not really be balanced. So then any amount of these high histamine foods is really causing a problem.

So that’s really where I would look to focus. Just kind of chipping away at the factors we know promote leaky gut. Working on your stress, your sleep. Your blood sugar regulation, your digestion. And really kind of getting yourself back to balance.

And then at the same time, you can look at; did I start eating more sauerkraut every day. Am I eating more leftovers now than I used to? Leftovers can definitely be a source of higher histamine. That’s something that usually when people are told to eat a low histamine diet, they’re recommended to eat more freshly cooked foods and not rely on leftovers as much. So maybe you started meal prepping, and your food is ready one day for the next three to four days. That’s something that could be promoting that response in you, as well.

Just all different things to consider. I do think that there’s probably a way to balance and manage it. If you're doing the best you can to kind of keep your gut from being leaky, or having any type of inflammation. If you realize; wow, I’m just drinking two kombuchas every day now, and I didn’t used to do that. They you can definitely rebalance your diet, and not take in quite as many high histamine foods, and you should see some resolution there.

But I would recommend; there’s a great article. Dr. Amy Myers, who has been on the show several times. She has an article from, it’s about a year ago, 2017, all about histamine intolerance. I would definitely recommend checking that out. It’s very comprehensive. And she’s going to say a lot of what I just briefly touched on now. But if you're looking for a little bit more in-depth, kind of all in one place, definitely check out her website. It’s AmyMyersMD.com.

Any thoughts on that?

Liz Wolfe: The only note I had made about this is Chris Masterjohn just did; I think it was a podcast, or a video, on vitamin A for allergies. And I don’t know how much he addresses this, but I think one of the major points was that vitamin A deficiency and histamine release in the body, which may be a little bit different from dealing with histamine from food. But it still might be interesting to make the connection and kind of understand what he had to say about this.

So maybe Google Chris Masterjohn vitamin A and allergies. Or vitamin A and histamine. Something like that. Because I think there is some interesting stuff there, as well. And, I do like vitamin A. I’m not saying go supplement with vitamin A. But I do think vitamin A from real, whole foods, animal foods, is helpful for acne and hormonal stuff for a lot of people. So it might be worth looking at.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. And immune health. For all of that. For sure.

Liz Wolfe: The Balanced Bites podcast is sponsored in part by the Nutritional Therapy Association. The NTA trains and certifies nutritional therapy practitioners and consultants (including me; I’m an NTP), emphasizing bio-individuality and the range of dietary strategies that support wellness. The NTA emphasizes local, whole, properly prepared nutrient dense foods as the key to restoring balance and enhancing the body’s ability to heal.

The NTA’s nutritional therapy practitioner program and fully online nutritional therapy consultant program empower graduates with the education and skills needed to launch a successful, fulfilling career in holistic nutrition. If you're interested in learning about holistic nutrition but don’t necessarily want to become a practitioner, check out their new Foundational Wellness course. To learn more about the NTA’s nutritional therapy programs, resources, and to enroll in their free course, Nutritional Therapy 101, visit http://www.NutritionalTherapy.com.

5. Favorite workout moves [27:19]

Liz Wolfe: What do you say we talk about our favorite workout move, Diane?

Diane Sanfilippo: Ok.

Liz Wolfe: Are we thinking favorite in terms of I hate it so good? Or like, I actually really like doing this.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing} I was thinking the exact same thing.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: I’ll do both.

Liz Wolfe: Both. Ok. You want to go first?

Diane Sanfilippo: I’m just going to go for it, yeah.

Liz Wolfe: Ok.

Diane Sanfilippo: My favorite that I’m terrible at but I always feel it after, so I think it’s good. Any kind of leg raises or knee raises when I’m hanging from the bar and I have to be super controlled. Not like I’m kipping, toes to bar. Because kipping and toes to bar are easy. But just trying to leg raises; ooh. My abs, I’m really feeling it.

But then something I love to do; I love a good ball slam. {laughing}

Liz Wolfe: Yeah!

Diane Sanfilippo: Get your aggressions out. It’s a good one.

Liz Wolfe: I like that. This is tough for me. I feel like also I have this pu-pu platter now because I’ve been working with a trainer for a long time and I’ve been exposed to so many different types of moves, movement that I didn’t really know before. I mean, who doesn’t love a good clean and jerk.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing} A ball slam. Clean and jerk.

Liz Wolfe: Good old ball slam. Something you can drop the bar, like those two.

Diane Sanfilippo: I was going to say; a hang power clean is really nothing like it. But yeah. I was just thinking in recent moves. You like a good clean and jerk. {laughs} So what don’t you like?

Liz Wolfe: The one that I hate it so good is for sure the Airdyne. And maybe I’m just saying that because I did it today. I did six intervals, like 1 to 3. So 15 seconds on the Airdyne, and then 45 seconds of rest times six.

Diane Sanfilippo: That’s like a reverse Tabata almost.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs} And it just was so awful. But you feel it. You get that feedback. And every once in a while, you just need to feel a little crushed. Not every workout.

Diane Sanfilippo: Wait, 15 seconds of work, 45 seconds of rest?

Liz Wolfe: Yes.

Diane Sanfilippo: Ok.

Liz Wolfe: And it was not nearly enough. 15 seconds on, 45 off, for 6 minutes.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. It sounds easier than it is.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah. The Airdyne is just brutal.

Diane Sanfilippo: Brutal.

Liz Wolfe: It’s so brutal. I think those would have to be my faves. Alright, well that’s it for this week then. You can find me, Liz, at http://realfoodliz.com/ and you can find Diane at http://dianesanfilippo.com. {laughs} I said that funny. Join our email lists for free goodies and updates that you don’t find anywhere else on our website or on the podcast. While you’re on the internet, leave us an iTunes review. See you next week.