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Liz Wolfe: We’d like to thank Vital Choice for supporting our podcast today, and we encourage you to visit their online store at vitalchoice.com. You’ll find an amazing array of some of the world’s best seafood, including wild Alaskan salmon, halibut, tuna and cod, as well as sustainably harvested shellfish. They’re not only delicious, but vital choices for your health. You’ll also find grass-fed organic Wagyu beef, live fermented foods to promote gut health, wild organic blueberries, and dark organic chocolates. Eat better, think better, and feel better with deeply nourishing foods from Vital Choice. They’re offering our listeners 15% off any order using code BALANCEDBITES. Remember that orders of $99 or more ship free.
Liz Wolfe: Hey friends. Welcome to Balanced Bites podcast number 174; all about challenges, part deux! Hey Diane.
Diane Sanfilippo: Hey!
Liz Wolfe: How are you.
Diane Sanfilippo: I’m well thank you. How are you?
Liz Wolfe: {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
1. What’s new for you from Diane & Liz [1:57]
Liz Wolfe: I’m cordial. I’m feeling very cordial. So, what’s new with you, friend?
Diane Sanfilippo: Um, let’s see. I think, basically the only news I’ve got for folks is that my next event is in Salt Lake City, Friday, January 23rd I’ll be at the Sugar House Barnes and Noble. So if you’re in the area, or perhaps you have friends who live in the area, definitely come check it out or share the information with them. You can RSVP on the website sidebar. We just like to get a headcount estimate, so we can make sure there are enough chairs and books and all that good stuff. So I think that’s pretty much it. I’ll be at Sundance, the Film Festival, that weekend, which I’m really excited about.
Liz Wolfe: Are you serious?
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah! I’ve gone to it in the past, maybe twice. I have a friend who, it’s like her thing. Every year, she plans. And she keeps me on the email. Every year, I get the email about Sundance, and most of the time I haven’t been able to go, I’ve been doing other things. But this year, I was like, alright, I’m going to go. I haven’t gone in years.
Liz Wolfe: You’re going to see Joaquin Phoenix and Mariah Carey and all those people with their chunky, furry boots.
Diane Sanfilippo: You know what’s really funny though? You think everyone is a celebrity when you’re there, because you’re all wearing boots, and a big puffy coat, and sunglasses, and a cute hat, and everybody looks famous, so it’s actually kind of funny.
Liz Wolfe: {laughs} Celebrities are going to be coming up to you like, oh my gosh, I have Practical Paleo.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing} Can you imagine?
Liz Wolfe: You better get paped. You better get paparazzied.
Diane Sanfilippo: Oh that would be hilarious. Paparazzied? Paleo Paparazzi?
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: No. I’m sure that will not be happening. But, yeah, I’m looking forward to it. I haven’t gone in a long time, and it’s freezing, and I’m not a skier or a snowboarder, so anyone who wants to tell me all the best places to do those things, it won’t be helpful. {laughs} But if anybody knows a cool natural grocer or hippie grocery store I could check out while I’m up there, I’ll have a rental car, and that is kind of up my alley. Browsing a grocery store? Yes. {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: Listen. If you see Joaquin Phoenix, tell him I applaud him trying to adapt a Thomas Pynchon novel, but he didn’t do so well with it.
Diane Sanfilippo: I will say exactly those words.
Liz Wolfe: Ok.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yes. Still remember exactly what you said.
Liz Wolfe: Tell him to try Mason and Dixon next time.
Diane Sanfilippo: Ok.
Liz Wolfe: Because I don’t think I’m ever going to finish that book. I need just a movie. {sigh}
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} We did have dinner one time at a table next to Robert Downey, Jr., and RDJ is definitely one of my friends’ favorites.
Liz Wolfe: Oh, he’s cool.
Diane Sanfilippo: That was pretty fun. But that was many years ago. So hopefully, yeah, hopefully we’ll see a lot of films, and not freeze our butts off. And I don’t know, if you’re there and you think you see me, you probably do so come say hi.
Liz Wolfe: {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: Don’t just stare at me and be like, is that Diane?
Liz Wolfe: Yeah, this makes no sense, this is not a Whole Foods or a podcast.
Diane Sanfilippo: This doesn’t make any sense at all! No, that will be fun. So yeah, that’s it. That’s all that’s new with me. What is new with you and your brewing uterus. {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: {laughs} My brewing U? Oh man, this could be funny. Well, in concert with the brewing of the U, I’m working really hard on Baby Making and Beyond. I just had a really good phone call with Meg the midwife about it yesterday, and it’s going to be so awesome. I feel like when I’m really passionate about something in my own life, that’s going to be when the good stuff starts to pour out. That’s probably a bad analogy, thinking about childbirth pouring out.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, don’t. {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: {laughs} Yeah. But you know, when I made the skincare guide that was right at the tail end of years of working to heal my skin and my digestion and everything like that. This is perfect, so it’s going to be really exciting. And I did want to let people know, also, that we did change the name to the Skintervention Guide to the Purely Primal Skincare guide to kind of make room for maybe more goodies, more products, you know skincare products, which I’ve been talking about for a while, which is well into the future, just to make room for all of that. So it’s now the Purely Primal Skincare Guide, but it’s exactly the same. And we also have a ton of really cool stuff coming up with that, probably I don’t want to say for sure this summer, but summer/fall there will be an enormous update, and everybody that owns it will get it. So that’s exciting.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yay!
Liz Wolfe: Yay. And other than that, I’m just drinking a cup of raw milk, hanging out, and interestingly, while I have chosen to imbibe. No, that wouldn’t be the word. To utilize raw dairy throughout my pregnancy, that is not necessarily the recommendation we’ll make in Baby Making and Beyond, we’ll talk about it in BMB and discuss the ins and outs of it. But the program will give those types of recommendations, and ins and outs, and what you need to know. But I will also share what I chose to do, which is not always going to be exactly aligned with I guess the ideal, or whatever.
So it should be interesting. Because nobody can say that they’re perfectly aligned with any one thing, I don’t think, and even I made some deviations for different reasons. So you’ll be able to kind of hear my reasons for the way I did things while I was pregnant, and you’ll also be able to hear kind of an overview of what we see as conventional recommendations, even natural hippie/crunchy recommendations, those types of things. So it’s not in any way centered around just one philosophy. It’s not like you must do this, and then you must attachment parent, and then you must breastfeed. There are definitely ideals, but we explore all of it, because the fact is, motherhood is not {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: Not black and white.
Liz Wolfe: It’s not black and white. Pregnancy is not black and white, preconception is not black and white. And we want to support everybody, not just try and push people into fitting a mold that maybe I would consider the way I would do things. So we’re working on doing something broad, but still keeping it centered in the really, truly healthy myth busting type of stuff that people need to be aware of. I can’t remember if I said this last week, but I just went to a birthing class, it’s required to use the birth center that we’re using, and I died twice.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: I chewed off two of my fingernails, and I’m not a nail biter. The entire nutrition section was atrocious; and if this is the state of mainstream modern pregnancy nutrition recommendations, then we are missing a huge opportunity. So I just realized how much this is needed, and I’m really excited about it.
Diane Sanfilippo: That’s awesome. I like the idea, too, of kind of exploring everything that’s been explained to pregnant women, about what they should do and what they shouldn’t do, and all that stuff. I do think it’s valid to share what you ended up doing, because I think sometimes, it’s important for people to see all the sides and make their own decision, but it’s nicer for people to see, where did you deviate from what you would recommend to everyone. Maybe somebody’s not comfortable making that same choice. Maybe somebody’s not comfortable eating raw dairy, maybe they’re a little bit afraid of it.
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: I think it’s important for them to not feel afraid. I think the biggest thing that happens when women get pregnant, not from personal experience, but from experience in coaching people and having them come to both of us with a lot of questions, is that that’s the biggest emotion that becomes apparent when they start going to different appointments, or reading books, or talking to people, it’s just fear. There’s so much fear mongering around it, and I think that there are certain things that we need to have the myths dispelled on, but I think there’s also areas where it’s like, look. If this is stressing you out; if it’s stressing you out that you're craving carbs, and you want to eat gluten free bread, and you feel like it’s not paleo, to do that.
Liz Wolfe: {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: You need to first calm down. The very first thing we need to have everybody do is not be so afraid, and I think that will be cool to see all of your recommendations. I’m really excited about the program. We don’t have anything that we’ve been recommending, and we get asked about this stuff all the time.
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: So I’m glad that it’s coming from you.
Liz Wolfe: Yay!
Diane Sanfilippo: Yay.
Liz Wolfe: And It’s more than just, eat this for a healthy baby. It’s not just that. It’s everything. Because pregnancy and parenthood is everything. It starts before you get pregnant {laughs} and it continues for the rest of your life. So there’s so much more than just, you need this much lecithin.
Diane Sanfilippo: You can interview my mom if you want, about that. {laughing}
Liz Wolfe: I would love to interview the big M. Love her.
Diane Sanfilippo: Love her.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah, it’ll be exciting.
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2. Shout Out: Melissa Joulwan and her Well Fed magazine [11:30]
Diane Sanfilippo: Alright, our shout out this week is to our girl Melissa Joulwan of The Clothes Make the Girl, and you guys may know her as the author of Well Fed and Well Fed 2. I was super excited when I saw she posted recently about Well Fed magazine. It’s a Well Fed paleo recipes primal inspired food for people who love to eat, and she put it on her blog recently, so if you check out http://theclothesmakethegirl.com/ it was from January 6th. And I think, I don’t know if she said it’s just one edition right now, and they’ve pulled recipes from both Well Fed and Well Fed 2, so if you own those books, she was saying in her blog post you don’t need to get the magazine, because you have all the recipes. But the cool thing is it’s making it available in checkout lanes in places like Whole Foods, and some other natural grocers like Sprouts, Molly Stone, etc. So it’s just a really cool way to spread the word a little bit more.
And I think she and her husband, whoever else is on their team working on things like design and aesthetic, as you all know it’s a huge thing for me. I think information should be conveyed beautifully, cleanly, and clearly, and I think she is one of the best when it comes to just picking an aesthetic and just going with it. I know we’ve got lots of friends who are great at that too; I always love Bill and Hayley’s work of Primal Palate, and Nom Nom Paleo, the design that they all do is fantastic too. I think this is great. I think the magazine looks amazing, and I think it will really introduce people who are in that checkout line who just want to see a bunch of awesome looking food. You know how many times you; well, I; I don’t know about you.
Liz Wolfe: {laughing} yeah, hold on.
Diane Sanfilippo: Pick up a magazine, and I’m almost blown away at how magazines like Gourmet or Cooking Light, even though I don’t cook lightly, for example, you flip through these magazines, and it’s almost like they’ve written a cookbook every single month, because there are so many recipes in them. I’m like, how are they doing this? But seeing a Well Fed magazine just kind of right up against them, I think that will be really cool and it just kind of brings things out in a more accessible way to people who maybe weren’t ready to put down $20-30 for a book. But I think it looks like the price tag might be under $10. I can’t tell exactly. It’s definitely not as sturdy as a book would be and all of that for people who are like, well I have the book, why is now in a magazine? It’s not as sturdy, but I think it’s going to be awesome. And it looks beautiful. So congratulations to Melissa Joulwan.
3. This week in the Paleosphere: US News & World Report on paleo diet [14:06]
Liz Wolfe: This week in the real food paleosphere. Let’s talks about blah, blah US News & World Reports blah, blah. {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Yet again.
Liz Wolfe: Yet again. Us News & World Reports, who are clearly on the vegan payroll. Yet again, they rank paleo poorly.
Diane Sanfilippo: Somebody must be shoveling money from the DASH diet into the US News & World Reports. I have not done the research.
Liz Wolfe: {laughing} They take money from factory farms.
Diane Sanfilippo: I have not dug into this, but I’m curious to know where they’re getting this information. But any who. Proceed.
Liz Wolfe: So once again, they ranked paleo poorly on the best top diets of, was it 2014? Was it a review, or was it going into 2015?
Diane Sanfilippo: I believe it was, it’s the 2015 report, but it’s based on 2014 information.
Liz Wolfe: Alright, so this is what they say. The US News & World Report rankings are based on evaluations by a panel of doctors, nutritionists, and other health experts. {sigh}
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: Since we all know that doctors..
Diane Sanfilippo: Does that mean Jillian Michaels? {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: Yeah, exactly. But also, I have an MD friend of mine who says, we got no nutrition information in med school, so I’m just not sure where we decide that doctors are necessarily experts in dietary approaches, but I digress. For each diet, the experts evaluated short term and long term weight loss, ease of adherence, and how the advice stacked up against current dietary guidelines. So basically, we evaluated how close to what we already recommend this diet comes, and then we ranked it accordingly. {sigh}
Diane Sanfilippo: And if people lose weight on it. Like, is everybody trying to lose weight? Maybe a lot of people are, but not everybody is. Anyway.
Liz Wolfe: The experts also considered health risks, so I’m not sure what that means. Maybe cholesterol, I’m not sure. But it says, when it comes to paleo or the caveman diet, the verdict is that eating the way our hunter/gatherer ancestors did is not very realistic. This was so bad.
Diane Sanfilippo: This was the introductory sentence of the whole article. Which I am laughing, because just from the editorial side of things, it’s like, they introduce how the analysis is done, and then it’s like, when it comes to paleo. They’re either doing that just because they know paleo is the number one searched diet, the number one selling dietary cookbooks out there are paleo. That’s what people are coming to, so it’s like they have to address it, even if they hate it. Even if they don’t like it.
Liz Wolfe: That is exactly it. We see these different media outlets kind of jumping on board, and then we see the ones jumping on board using the search term, but being contrarian, because maybe they have a relationship with General Mills or Dean Ornish. You know?
Diane Sanfilippo: Right.
Liz Wolfe: And you know what’s interesting is now that, yeah I know, people can say what they want about Dr. Oz. I am very much pro think about what you’re doing before you do it, even if Dr. Oz said it was ok, so I’m pro he can say whatever the heck he wants. But with him, tilting towards the paleo stuff and supporting that a little bit, I almost feel like some of the chips are falling that way now, which is really interesting to me. But that’s neither here nor there. But yeah, they’re totally just taking advantage of the search term, but being contrarian about it. For sure.
Diane Sanfilippo: So do you want to read on?
Liz Wolfe: Yeah, yeah. So one expert concluded that a true paleo diet might be a great option. Very lean, pure meats. We’re still on the freaking lean meats thing. Lots of wild plants, but the problem, according to the report, is that it’s too difficult to follow in modern times.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: The experts say that in avoiding dairy, grains, and other main stays of the modern diet, paleo followers may miss out on key nutrients. And the panel concludes, if you’re not careful about making lean meat choices, you’ll quickly ratchet up your risk for heart problems. {laughs} This is just so funny!
Diane Sanfilippo: You can’t even read it with a straight face!
Liz Wolfe: No!
Diane Sanfilippo: It’s hilarious to me, because this is, we’ve almost never seen an article, and maybe I’m just not doing the research to find those articles, correct me if I’m wrong. But when they tout a diet that’s low in animal products, or a diet that removes animal products, they don’t say, oh and by the way, you will be missing key nutrients.
Liz Wolfe: No.
Diane Sanfilippo: They actually never talk about that, because it’s so widely accepted and popular to tell people to avoid red meat, or meat in general, and to avoid things like saturated fat, which means getting rid of fats that are rich in the fat soluble vitamins that so many of us are missing, with vitamins A and D primarily. They never even talk about it, it’s just completely ignored.
Liz Wolfe: I’ve just never seen a study from a reputable source that could not be adjusted for confounding factors that really actually showed what we’re talking about here. There’s some little asterisks where it says, a diet purely based around meat, which we don’t even necessarily know the source, because to this point I don’t know that we’ve had any studies about grass-fed or pasture raised meat, but maybe that asterisk where it says, we need to make sure we’re getting adequate amounts of chlorophyll, I think was what there was a recent conversation about this in the paleo world, and I’m forgetting where it came from, but to balance dietary iron. Things like that. {laughs} So it’s like, I’ve just never seen a single thing that actually affirms modern nutrition dogma. That’s why I wrote Eat the Yolks. Go read my book, everybody.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing}
Liz Wolfe: But unfortunately I’m not a doctor, so I’m not an expert, apparently.
Diane Sanfilippo: We don’t have to continue on this if you don’t want to, I just thought it was funny and interesting, and people always kind of post it over to my Facebook wall, and I’m sure they’re going to share it on yours.
Liz Wolfe: yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: Saying, oh, what do you think? It’s like, well what do you think I think.
Liz Wolfe: {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: Mainstream media is almost never the place to go for accurate information. Of course, every now and then; didn’t we see last year the reversal of saturated fat in Time magazine?
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: Wasn’t that kind of the first of owning up to the fact that this whole myth has been busted. Yet, this gets perpetuated. Largely, part of why its perpetuated is, first of all, myths around us trying to recreate paleo times, and secondly that it’s too hard. And I think the problem there, and this is part of what we’re talking about today with the whole challenge thing, part of the problem there is we don’t see paleo as a diet in terms of, it’s a short period of time, you only do it for a little while. We see it as this perspective on how to choose what is food for the human body, and what really might not be.
I think when they talk about it as a diet where it’s meant for a dietary intervention, perhaps, or for specific healing on a specific condition. They look at is as just a short period of time, and if it doesn’t rank best for weight loss, it’s like, you could do a million things to lose weight, and that doesn’t mean they’re promoting health. Or, you could do something that’s really easy to maintain; it also doesn’t mean it’s the best for health. I think that’s really the big thing that’s missing. And when they say the experts also considered health risks; it’s like, well I would really love to see how all this stuff measures with looking at the real overall health of the participants in each of these approaches.
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: And how do they feel? How happy are they? Are some of their blood markers looking good, the ones that might actually tell you a story, not just looking at cholesterol but also looking at something like triglycerides; and then also looking at the person. The biggest thing that I see happening with, I think we’ve seen this when we talked about Bill Clinton and Anne Hathaway for example who had come around on the whole vegan thing, and decided not to be vegan anymore, and are kind of going more the paleoish way. I think that is, if anybody would look at Bill Clinton in the last, what, 5-plus years where he was kind of eating this vegan or very plant-based diet.
Liz Wolfe: Wasting away.
Diane Sanfilippo: Wasting away! And I think there’s just a threshold where you have people who are naturally lean, and that’s fine, but when you have somebody who looks gaunt, and does not look vibrant and healthy, at least to me. I’m sure there are people who thought he looked vibrant and healthy to them, but I don’t see that. If somebody doesn’t look robust to me, if I look like I’m a small female that could squat more than this large male, {laughs} I’m just kidding. No but seriously, I think there’s this physical attribute of just looking more robust, that people really dismiss because they just have it so hard wired that that is the right, healthy way to eat. Low fat, avoiding animal products, those things are bad for you.
Unfortunately I think it’s come up over the last 30 years when we did introduce really unhealthy forms of meat.
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: And that stuff came into the food supply, whether it was fast food chains and the pink slime burgers, or tons of processed meats. And I’m not even talking about Applegate organic turkey, I’m talking about really processed, something like a bologna or a salami that has BHT and BHA and all these different preservatives. Not even just celery salt and salt, things that are traditionally used to preserve meats. I’m talking about the synthetic types of preservatives, that that stuff isn’t what I recommend as a healthy form of a choice of meat.
So that’s kind of where this whole thing sways. It’s funny to watch them continually bash paleo, and yet it continues to be probably the most popular growing segment of the way people are eating, even if they are just “dieting”, it’s taking over everything, and I don’t think US News & World Reports has really much to do about it.
Liz Wolfe: I wonder if it’s just one of those things where they don’t want to reverse their stance on something that they’ve said before, and then people are going to cry foul.
Diane Sanfilippo: Maybe.
Liz Wolfe: But there’s also that gluten deficiency issue, Diane.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: We don’t want to get gluten deficient.
Diane Sanfilippo: Oh, it’s so amazing. I had this conversation with my mom really briefly the other day. We were talking about how vegetarianism was really popular for a long time, and I’m very acutely aware of how it looks from the outside for us to be paleo and eschewing grains, and just saying, we don’t eat them, and we don’t think they’re the best thing in the world to eat all the time. I kind of step outside myself sometimes to think of how that looks to other people, and put on that hat of how did I look at my sister when she, long ago, was like I’m vegetarian, I don’t eat these things.
Again, people just really never talked about what they were missing from their diet. The thing is, we’re not in that same situation. Removing grains from the diet doesn’t remove vitamins and minerals that we can’t get elsewhere, that we shouldn’t be getting elsewhere. We should be getting them from animal foods that are much more bioavailable to us than they would be in grains. I think it’s just a really different perspective. But because it’s “difficult” for some people, and I think primarily it’s difficult for the agricultural industry, that we want to not eat those things, that’s really why this is more of a problem than anything else for news outlets like this.
Liz Wolfe: Amen.
Diane Sanfilippo: Amen! Can I get an amen! {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: I don’t even know. That’s not an accent. I don’t do accents.
Liz Wolfe: That was like a little bit of Mr. Hanky with a little bit of…
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing} Yes, it totally was! Hidey-ho!
Liz Wolfe: Ok.
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4. I’d like to try the 21-Day Sugar Detox, but I feel like I’d fail on day 1 [26:27]
Liz Wolfe: Alright, so I guess we could do some questions. What do you think?
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.
Liz Wolfe: Ok. Alrighty. So, like I said before, this week we’re continuing to talk about nutrition challenges like a 21-Day Sugar Detox or a strict 30 day paleo challenge, and we’re getting more into the nitty gritty tips and tricks, practical application of these challenges in this episode by taking specific questions. So, without further ado. Amber says, “I’d really like to try the 21DSD, but I feel like I’d fail day 1. I’m totally dependent. I tried doing low carb once, and I made it 3 or 4 hours.” So, should I combine these questions or just start there?
Diane Sanfilippo: I guess we could start there. I think this kind of, hopefully, I don’t know if Amber is a listener, it’s a question that came in from Facebook. Actually, it’s not even a question. {laughs} I think that’s just basically a statement. But I do want to address it, because I think some people are really intimidated by the whole process. And I think if that’s where you’re at, like we talked about last week, it might not be something that you take on as a 21-day challenge. Maybe your challenge is 1 day at a time. If you feel like you would fail 3 to 4 hours in, what is it about that challenge that makes you feel like you wouldn’t be able to do it?
And if low carb doesn’t work for you, the 21-Day Sugar Detox doesn’t have to be low carb. It’s really not designed to be a specific range of carbohydrates, and it absolutely depends on the type of activity level each person has. Generally the people who don’t feel great eating lower carb either just have a different constitution, or sometimes you're more active, and it doesn’t necessarily mean you have to work out for an hour a day to be active. You might just have a slightly more active lifestyle. You might be chasing kids around, you might be doing housework all day, you might be doing farm work all day, or for a couple of hours.
Liz Wolfe: {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: It really just depends. But I think the big thing that is going on there is usually just a mindset and, do you even want to do it? If you don’t want to do it, that’s fine. But if you’re dependent on things like sugar and refined foods, if this idea that you feel like you can’t do low carb or you don’t want to, if for you that means you eat healthy forms of carbohydrates, then ok. {laughs} There’s no reason to say I have to give up those things. But if you're doing it to the point where you’re just constantly eating lots of refined foods and refined sugar, then I think it is worth exploring. I think the challenge that is beneficial is kind of putting you in a situation where you have to chose healthy forms of carbohydrates, and recognize that while you get those carbohydrates in your body macronutrient style, you’re also getting micronutrients, and over the long term, getting the micronutrients with the macronutrients is what will keep you from having those cravings. Because when your body is craving more sugar, it’s really not saying, I just need sugar. It needs the nutrients that come with carbohydrates in nature, as well, which are those B vitamins, minerals, even vitamin C a lot of the time, is really found in food that have carbohydrate.
I think it’s important to kind of look at all those angles. And also, if you’re apprehensive, review the materials ahead of time of any challenge, and see what you can do to introduce just some of the changes to your lifestyle ahead of time, and see if you can get yourself kind of prepared and like weaning off of some of the things that you were eating, and getting used to it, and then you might be able to give yourself your own challenge where it’s just 3 days at once, or maybe it’s 7 days.
Recognizing too within my program, the 21-Day Sugar Detox, you will find out in what to expect day by day where I go through actually how you feel each day, that days 3-5 or 4-7 roughly are the hardest. So for people who are like, I do really well, but on days 3 or 4 I always want to just give up, it’s like, that’s how everyone feels. That’s when it becomes hard. But if you know pushing through a few more days of eating really healthy, nutrient dense foods, your body is going to start to respond and things will feel differently, I think that will help a lot, as well.
Liz Wolfe: Correct me if I’m wrong, but you have a few supplement recommendations as well just to maybe get people over that “coming off of refined sugar” hump.
Diane Sanfilippo: I do. Glutamine is a really great one. A lot of people are afraid to try supplements; they’re like, oh, I just want to do it without all that stuff. Truthfully, the folks who try the glutamine, and I do give recommendations on how much to take in the book, and generally it’s the powdered form of L-glutamine. What it does, it’s an amino acid, but your digestive system sort of recognizes it as an end-form carbohydrate, so it sort of gives your body the fuel it’s looking for without giving you the sweet taste, and without giving you the desire to consume the thing that will also be nutrient depleting. So instead of you reaching for sugar, your body gets quieted with that craving, and you can just kind of proceed and eat your real, whole food.
I cover all of that in the book, but that is one that I recommend. Anybody can do a little digging and a little research on what L-glutamine is, what it does, and how it works. Even if you were to Google glutamine and sugar cravings, I think you’d see a lot of great information on that.
5. How do I transition to normal eating after the nutrition challenge is over [32:30]
Liz Wolfe: Lovely. Alright, so next up is a question that quite a few actually asked. These ones in particular are from Christine and Shaun, but a lot of people echoed them. “My question is about transition. I do really well during challenges, especially when I do it with a group or as a contest. But after I fall off, I often go off the deep end. How do you find balance? It’s the same feeling when you graduated from college.” {laughs} ”You’ve been going about a regimented schedule your entire life and now it’s done.” I was not so much on a regimented schedule in college.
Diane Sanfilippo: NO.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah, they did college the way you were supposed to do college. Good for you.
Diane Sanfilippo: Oops.
Liz Wolfe: {laughs} “Now you need to make your own choices for yourself. How do you continue past the food challenge, and maintain the same integrity?” Yikes.
Diane Sanfilippo: Alright. Well, I’m going to answer this, and then if you have thoughts.
Liz Wolfe: You have much more experience than I dealing with large groups going through challenges, so I’ll throw stuff in as I see fit, but you go right ahead. {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Alright. And her question here was, how do you find balance. And it’s like, how does one or how do I? Because we kind of all have our own ways about this. I think, there are a few different things that I generally recommend. For starters, some people are pretty much dying to eat all of the things at the end of the challenge. They plan their day 22 to be this pizza and cake festival with wine and all of the things. And for some people, that really helps them to {laughs} insult their system so badly that they can then observe the effects very intensely. Not what I would recommend, but the first time I ever did anything like a Sugar Detox, I kind of did the same thing.
I have told this story before, but for those of you who haven’t heard it, it was the day after I did a no sugar thing for 3 weeks, and I was hungry, hadn’t eaten lunch yet, and stupidly at the time, this was many years ago, I got candy from the candy store that was in my neighborhood. It was a nice little candy store {laughs} it was just such a horrible experience. I ate the whole bag of candy, it was probably a quarter of a pound of gummy candy, licorice, and all kinds of crazy stuff. You guys, I wrote this program because I was the candy girl. I love candy. And I have not purchased candy in many years. Not that way, at least. Anyway, I ate the whole thing, and probably less than an hour later, I think I was almost completely passed out from the spike and crash of my blood sugar.
At the time, you were just talking about raw milk, I had raw milk in the fridge. I don’t drink it anymore, it doesn’t work well for me, it gives me acne. But I drank a cup of the milk, and I was like I need to get some sugar in my body, quickly. One glass wasn’t enough, I had another glass. I was having flashes in my mind of passing out on my kitchen floor, alone, like the cat coming over and being, you know.
Liz Wolfe: Like when Miranda choked and she calls Carrie that she’s going to die alone. {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: Exactly. Oh, exactly. That’s exactly the vision that I had. So, for me, that was the thing that actually got my brain to realize how big of an impact that stuff was having on me. But in small amounts, it doesn’t have the same impact. But I was like, holy cow, that is what I’m doing to myself all the time, maybe on a smaller scale. So for me, that was a huge awakening, and it was great. It was a great experience, I have that story to tell. {laughs} But, it’s not what I recommend for everyone.
What I normally recommend is that, as you ease out of the program, the next day, usually there’s something that you’ve been eyeing, and you’re like, oh that dark chocolate over there that’s not 100%, but it’s like 80%, I’ve really wanted to have that for the last week. Or a glass of wine, which is a huge one. A lot of folks are like, it drives them nuts to not have that glass of wine for that much time. I think having the one thing that you miss the most, and just see how your body feels in response to that. And, I don’t know. Everybody’s got something different in a different way they want to rebalance when they come out of something like a Sugar Detox, but I think it’s most important to just recognize what your habits are, around your choices. What a program like this does is it forces you to get out of your own way, and it forces you to remove a lot of the emotional eating. Most of us don’t sit and emotionally eat steamed broccoli.
Liz Wolfe: {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: Or, even steamed broccoli with butter, which is yummy. But most of us don’t emotionally eat the foods that are included on a program like this. Most of us if we have something where we’re just bored, or lonely, or tired, something that’s going on that’s not real hunger, we’re not generally eating the foods that are included. So when those feelings hit, when people say, oh a craving hit mid-afternoon. Why did the craving hit mid afternoon when you’re on the program? Was it because you didn’t eat enough at lunch? Because you didn’t eat enough fat, which is a big one that people are missing. Was it because you’re tired, you're bored? There are so many reasons why people feel like they have cravings to want to eat those foods again, and I think that’s just something to be acutely aware of.
The one thing I think is a perfectly legitimate way to reintroduce foods is, on the Sugar Detox we eliminate most fruit. There’s some limited fruit, they’re not very sweet fruits, they’re either a little more tart or bitter or just a little starchy without a lot of sweetness, but they’re not very sweet. So if you want to reintroduce some sweet fruits, I absolutely have no problem with fruit. I don’t think fruit is a bad thing for people to eat now and then. A piece of fruit a day is definitely no big deal. I think making sure we’re not abusing it for sweet cravings all day long, and again, displacing other foods with it.
And also, just from a culinary perspective, I got pretty burnt out trying to develop recipes without using any other fruit when I was working on recipes for the program. Because I was like, I’m a creative person, I want to use all the ingredients! What if I wanted to use some orange juice, or use some pineapple, or mango, or anything like that, and those things aren’t included on the program, because they are very weak. But I do think reintroducing some of those very natural nutrient dense forms of sugar, those are really good ways to go. But everyone really has to find that balance for themselves, and I do think that going slowly is important.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with coming back to a reset now and then, if you feel like you’ve gotten off tract, because you haven’t put your attention on it. And I don’t mean attention in a, I’m going to be super controlling, manipulative of my food, kind of way. I just mean, even for me being on vacation for a couple of weeks, I didn’t want to say not to things. I didn’t not want to have the gelato on the ship, or I didn’t want to not enjoy a glass of champagne or something like that, but I know I don’t feel great physically when I eat that way when I’m home. When I’m on vacation, it may or may not affect me the same way. I know that I don’t feel great when I do that, even if in the moment it brings some pleasure.
So I think that’s something, if you get off tract over a period of months, and you’re like, well I want to come back to this program, I don’t think you should feel badly about that. As we mentioned in the previous episode, if you’re one of those people for whom it alleviates stress, for you to say, I’m following this program, these are the rules, and that’s that. It’s no big deal. But if it’s totally stressing you out, then that might be a different situation.
What have you seen, Liz, or maybe when you did a challenge. I know you’ve done at least one challenge, in terms of being able to transition sort of back to normal, more broad way of eating.
Liz Wolfe: I just see the biggest difference is in mental state. I think fear plays into it a lot. Like, I’m so afraid I’m going to screw up. Or identifying yourself as a person who can’t do the right thing for extended periods of time. I don’t know, sometimes there’s a little bit of reverse psychology that helps a little bit there. But it really just depends on what works for the way your head works.
Diane Sanfilippo: Mm-hmm.
Liz Wolfe: So it’s like, for me personally, generally I allow myself to have anything I want any time. If I want something, I get to have it. But that kind of takes away the feeling of urgency, where I can’t have it but I want it so I have to get it. I never want anything that is all that bad.
Diane Sanfilippo: That’s so interesting, because I’m like, I don’t get that way.
Liz Wolfe: Not everybody does.
Diane Sanfilippo: I just love that we have such a different perspective on it, but we’re totally fine with how we each operate. I think that’s so important for people to hear, because people beat themselves up for being on one side or the other, and wishing they were on one side or the other. You know?
Liz Wolfe: Yeah. There’s just this social narrative. Just kind of back out for a second and look at this as like an observer, from a bird’s eye view. The narrative that we get from probably before we’re even old enough to know what we’re listening to is, oh you can’t stick to your diet, oh fell off the wagon. Did you already fail in your New Years’ resolution? Top reasons diets fail. I can’t … We get this from the media, we get this from every angle for longer than most of us can probably remember. So just think about where that narrative comes from. Is it really your narrative? Is it really how you operate, or is it something you’ve imposed upon yourself because you just kind of assume that all of these messages that you’ve gotten since time immemorial are true about you? Because they don’t have to be. Those are just really profitable messages.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, I think that’s absolutely true. I would say that’s one of the reasons why when somebody says, oh, I messed up on this day and ate something that wasn’t included we’re like, ok. Learn from it, move on. You didn’t fail because, what I think the biggest take away from my program at least is just to teach your something about how to chose foods that feel good for your body, and how to get you away from sugar and sweet things all the time. Because that’s the biggest one, when people are having trouble making those decisions.
And like you said, if you have the mindset of, I can have whatever I want when I want it, and then I don’t want it because I don’t feel like it’s off limits, at some point, people can kind of create their own rules again, not in a rigid scary way, but you know you and I have dined a million times together, and for me one of those rules is I don’t want to eat gluten. I’ll ask about it, I make kind of a deal about it when I’m at a restaurant, trying to find out where it is, whatever. But if something has cheese on it, I’ll ask about it or kind of push it off, but it’s not as big a deal to me.
So in this question, how do you find balance, I think it’s about finding the things that you know feel good for you or don’t feel good for you, that you know either trigger you to have some habits created or some habits moving forward that you don’t want to continue or the opposite. Does having the rules make you more crazy? So then you learn that the challenge isn’t the best thing for you. I think everyone just has to kind of find that balance within what feels, it provides them with the most calm. And that was kind of the point I was saying last week about, for me, having a program where I’m like, this is what I’m doing, does make me calm, and for you, not having that rigidity makes you calm. And I think that’s great.
6. Best way to plan meals when you have a long commute [44:42]
Liz Wolfe: Ok. How about this one from Bet.
Diane Sanfilippo: Alrighty.
Liz Wolfe: Alrighty. “What’s the best way to plan meals, when you essentially have to pack all of them with you because of a 2.5 hour one way commute?” Whoo.
Diane Sanfilippo: Can we talk about her job? No? Ok.
Liz Wolfe: {laughs} “Also, how should you exercise if you’re just starting the challenge, and just starting to exercise.” Because, you don’t know. Beth might have to drive into the city in order to record a podcast with one Diane Sanfilippo, and that might be 2.5 hours away. We just don’t know.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} I see what you’ve done there.
Liz Wolfe: Need more information.
Diane Sanfilippo: So the advice I’ll give here is what I would do if I were going to an all day seminar, which I’ve done this many times. This is kind of the standard approach that I’ll take. I’ll prep food, whether it’s the night before. If this is for you every day of the week, she didn’t say, it’s a commute but is that an everyday commute or a few days a week? But if you have it every day, I would definitely do a weekend kind of batch cooking session where you’re cooking things ahead of time, and you make sure that you have things that you can grab and go throughout the week, and that maybe just need to get warmed up a bit.
I would definitely try and make your breakfast warm, if that’s the case, and eat that at home or eat that, like a crustless quiche or something that you can kind of handhold, or wrap in foil or whatever you're going to wrap it in and take that with you and have that be warm food.
Lunch I would do some kind of cold meal. I generally would do a big salad, and I would keep any ingredients off the salad that are going to make it soggy ahead of time, and just keep them in a little separate compartment or container.
Liz Wolfe: Have you seen those mason jar salads that people are doing?
Diane Sanfilippo: I have. I mean, that’s just not big enough for me.
Liz Wolfe: That’s not a lot of calories in there.
Diane Sanfilippo: I would need a gallon sized mason jar. Yeah.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: Unless you’ve got a quarter of a cup of olive oil in there, you’re going to be hungry in 10 minutes. {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: {laughs} Unless it’s literally a salad made of avocado, egg yolks, and steak.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, I’m not a big fan of those at this point just because, again, I would need a gallon sized mason jar for my salad. I’m not even kidding, I make really big salads. {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: {laughs} What normal people brew kombucha in, that’s what you would use for your salad?
Diane Sanfilippo: Oh, totally. Yeah, or you make a salad and someone thinks you're sharing it. I’m like, no no, that’s mine. {laughs} But that’s what I would do. I would kind of put that stuff all together. I would try and do something that might be cold. You can definitely put cold packs in. I have these big cooler bags that I use, and there are plenty out there. I would definitely pack a cooler bag and have that ready for you, and have snacks whether it’s jerky, or if you can eat nuts, have some nuts. Kind of have smaller portions of maybe leftovers of other meals. A stew or something slow cooked, if you like those and those are great for traveling because you’re not going to lose any of the textural components of food that you might have cooked differently.
I used to take chicken thighs or chicken legs pretty often because I like to eat those whether they’re warm or cold. So I think those are good ideas too. Generally just packing a cooler bag and taking it. I would pack a bag that does not look like a lunch bag. {laughs} It is a big bag, and just bring that with me for the day. I think that can be really helpful. You’ll definitely be able to keep it cold enough in the car.
And then, how should you exercise if you’re just starting the challenge and just starting to exercise. Specifically for the Sugar Detox, I have materials in the online program of ways you can exercise. There’s an exercise guide that’s perfectly fine for at home, and uses little to no equipment. And then there’s also a yoga guide, which my sister wrote. So if you’re looking for yoga that’s supportive of detox, she created some different flows or I don’t even know, I don’t do yoga {laughs} It’s yoga poses, what is yoga all about, something like that.
Liz Wolfe: {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Anyway, so. I know. Theoretically, I want to do yoga, but then I just don’t go.
Liz Wolfe: I love it so much, but that’s because I’m really bendy naturally.
Diane Sanfilippo: Nope, I’m not.
Liz Wolfe: So whenever I go, they always ask me if I used to be a dancer. Although, maybe they’re asking me if I used to be a pole dancer or something.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} That’s likely it. Well, I’m totally the opposite. Everyone thinks I’m a gymnast or a swimmer, so I’m like, neither and thank you. But that’s what I would recommend checking out. Also, if you’re not on the Sugar Detox, you don’t have access to those materials, you and I always talk about walking. We love walking as a great form of exercise and just movement in general. And you know, I would just find something that you think is fun.
For me right now, the idea of coming back to the gym and just going into a class and being able to train with my own headspace right wasn’t going to happen, so I have one of the coaches at my gym who I just love, she’s one of my favorite people in the whole world, I have her training me right now, because I just couldn’t get my head on about doing this stuff on my own, or even going to a class and pushing myself at all. And she pushes me in the right way, not too much. For me that was a decision, but if you’ve got classes, maybe you want to take an aerobics class, or Zumba, or kickboxing, or if you want to do Crossfit, whatever you want to do, just get started into it slowly. But I wouldn’t try and freak your body out with something too intense right away.
Liz Wolfe: Agreed. My only secret to this type of thing making it easier is repetition. It’s not going to kill you to eat the same thing every day for breakfast for one week. You know.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, totally.
Liz Wolfe: Quiche every day for breakfast, whatever it is every day for lunch, and like a chunk off a giant roast and some sweet potato or whatever every day for dinner. It gets boring, but then you get used to it, and you start to like it.
Diane Sanfilippo: Or, you get used to it, and you’re like, well what if I just put some hot sauce on it, or what if I just added this other leftover thing that I have, and you end up having different meals.
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: If you follow me on Instagram, I post a lot of what I’m eating all the time, and it does not look that different from day to do. You know, it’s usually a big salad for lunch, and something with eggs or sausage or something for breakfast. Don’t stress yourself out on having to make things so different all the time.
Liz Wolfe: I bought the big salad.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
7. Can you address how the Advocare 24-day challenge is not healthy [51:10]
Liz Wolfe: Alright. This one is from Allie. “It would be nice for you to address how the 24-day challenge from Advocare is not a healthy challenge. I’d refer all my members to either the Whole 30 or the 21-Day Sugar Detox because it’s just about eliminating crap and eating real food. I just want them to experience real change to their health, not a masked quick fix with crap supplements that just make you poop all the time.”
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: I love it. “Every other box sells this stuff, and we refuse and get crap about it, have lost friends over it, and it’s sad, but in the end we stand behind our beliefs and a natural approach. Would love to hear your thoughts on this type of MLM challenge.”
There’s like, ok for example. I have been using essential oils for a long time. I don’t really talk about it, because don’t love the MLM stuff.
Diane Sanfilippo: Because it’s fight club.
Liz Wolfe: {laughs} But I mean, this is completely different to me. I think there are many different ways to boost your health. I happen to think that aromatherapy can be a really excellent one of them. I do not think that about Advocare {laughs}. And I think this is a really great question. We talked about it a teensy bit in the last episode. I can’t remember how much we actually said. But some people have to make money, and some people feel like you give the people what they want. I think there’s total legitimacy to that. You can’t stop people from doing something that they want to do just because you know it doesn’t work. Or maybe it does work, but you know it doesn’t work with the body the way ideally a weight loss program or health program should.
So I don’t know. To me, I would be like, maybe just don’t be so passionate about it. Just say, no, we don’t do that because it’s not part of our business model. Because I know it’s hard not to get really fired up about something that seems so ridiculous, but then again, do you really need to lose friends over it? I don’t know. That makes me sad. I don’t want Allie to lose friends over that.
Diane Sanfilippo: Well, I think the losing friends over it generally has more to do with the friends being so adamant that it’s the way, and it’s amazing, and how could you judge me for wanting to sell it. And at the end of the day, when I look at what’s in those challenges, at lot of times it has a shake or a meal replacement, it has a bunch of supplements. All it is is a way for people to monetize a diet.
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: And, you know, I know that you and I, we would much rather educate people and give people tools for learning, and tools for figuring out what works for themselves, and I might recommend supplements, but they’re not mine and it’s not a way for me to monetize what I’m recommending to people. And we all have to make a living with what we’re promoting out there in some way, but at the same time I think when these challenges force people to spend tons of money, it’s so hard. Because we know that people can make these changes to their food, or they can pick up a couple of supplements if they think it might help them, like what I was talking about with the glutamine. Go ahead and grab it on Amazon, or whatever.
But I think when you have a plan like this, it just sets people up for that diet mindset so much more than a lifestyle and nutrition change. So if you’re requiring that they buy the pills and all of that; I have known plenty of people who have done a doctor assisted program, and it had supplements, and it had special food you were supposed to buy, and they did it. And it really worked. But you know what? They don’t learn how to eat in their own life normally. They don’t learn how to move through normal social settings, like we do on something like the Sugar Detox, because I tell people, here’s what to do when you go to a party, and here are the decisions to make. When you’re really just eating more of your regular food, and you’re not just relying on a cleansing supplement or a shake for this meal. That basically just, as much as I like taking thought process away, this takes too much away. You know what I mean?
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: it puts too much reliance on the supplements and the program, and not enough reliance on the individual and their ability to make good decisions. I think we trust people a little bit more than that. We have faith in them to see what the guidelines of the program and go ahead out there and do it, and not say, ok for breakfast you have to drink this shake, because otherwise you’re going to make a poor decision. I don’t need to do that for people. I’m looking at everything that this program is about, and there are just so many supplements, that I would never even do it. Because I just wouldn’t; no. {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: It just would never work for me.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: It’s just a way for a gym owner to truly monetize. I know; retail is fine. Sell products that you believe in. if people believe in this, let them believe in it. If they’ve had a really good experience with it, just let them have it. I don’t like when people want to just pit up against each other and say, well my thing works and yours doesn’t. Whatever. If theirs works, whatever. You know? But I think at the end of the day the best thing we can sell to our people and our members of gyms and whatnot is education and empowerment. Giving them the education and coaching, giving them the education on nutrition, and empowering them to go on and make their own decisions, and I think that’s really the most important thing.
8. [56:40]
Liz Wolfe: Agreed. Alright, this is a quick one, from Kathleen. “Maybe you could address gender. Or rather, sex. I have zero men joining the Facebook group, and many women complaining about their husband’s lack of support.”
By the way, I’m trying really hard to remember the difference between sex and gender. I’m reading a book called Gender-Neutral Parenting right now.
Diane Sanfilippo: You can report back to me on that.
Liz Wolfe: It’s very fascinating, so the question is, “Maybe you could address biological male versus female. I’ve notice zero men joining the Facebook group, and many women complaining about their husband’s lack of support.”
I believe she’s talking about the 21DSD Facebook group.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.
Liz Wolfe: So you have mostly women in your group.
Diane Sanfilippo: Indeed. We’ve talked about this a lot in the past, just going paleo and not getting support. I don’t have a ton of advice today on it. Do you have some stuff you want to throw out there?
Liz Wolfe: It sucks when your spouse isn’t supportive. {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: I don’t know, because I really only got together with Scott. I don’t have direct experience. I can tell people, just before we hear your 2 cents on it, if you’re not sure what to do, that Facebook group, you’ll get a lot of support from other women telling you what their experience has been, and they will be able to help you with your experience. But yeah, what do you think about that?
Liz Wolfe: Well if you’re not married yet, or you’re not down that rabbit hole yet, make sure you choose someone who is supportive of you no matter what.
Diane Sanfilippo: But if you are…
Liz Wolfe: But if you are…
Diane Sanfilippo: What if you’ve been married for like 10 years, and you got married eating beer and pizza together, and now you want to make a change.
Liz Wolfe: Very true. I think you have to be compassionate of the person who is giving you a hard time. Which probably sounds like the exact opposite, because it’s probably the opposite person feels like the victim there. But you have to be compassionate about, when you’re making this huge change and your significant other is seeing that, it can be really unsettling and scary. Almost like when you reorganize the living room, and your toddler is screaming for hours because the couch is in a different spot. Things are scary for people, and it might help just to be compassionate to them, and support them. Not to say necessarily, you can do this with me, that would be great. But, babe this has nothing to do with me trying to make your life hard or anything like that. I love you, and I know you can support me in this. I know it’s scary, I know it’s hard when things change.
But, that’s kind of the place I would go first. I always try and operate from a place of compassion. Clearly, I don’t always succeed with that. I think that’s important. But there are a million reasons why people become afraid of change. Especially when someone is trying to change their life for the better, it can just be scary. So that’s kind of where I would start.
And as far as, I don’t know why more women tend to become involved in challenges like that, other than the fact that diet changes are marketed to us, probably more aggressively and I think from a younger age than maybe to men. I think it’s probably social in some ways that the tendency is a little bit different. Then again, I know a lot of guys that have done the 21-Day Sugar Detox.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. I think that men are much more private about their overarching health changes. What I’ve seen very traditionally; I mean, we do have a good handful of guys that go through the program, and I think we have a question here a little bit later, well it might have to be our next question because we’re coming up on an hour, we have one from Jeff. But I just think that they’re much more private about it in general.
Liz Wolfe: And that might be social, too. Kind of like they feel ashamed about it.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, I think they just want to do their thing, and I think a lot of them do take on a challenge like this, but then they just don’t need to talk about it. You know? They’re not like us where we need to talk about every feeling that we have about our bangs, or what we’re eating, or whatever it is.
Liz Wolfe: And social generalizations {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: It is, but that’s what I’ve seen. So I’m just speaking from that experience.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: But I like what you said about the compassion. And also that kind of goes back to when I was talking about, just kind of looking at it, step outside yourself for a minute, and just consider what this is doing to them. And if you did previously eat very differently, and all of a sudden, now you're changing things, that’s different for them too. What if you used to cook dinner every night for both of you, and now you’re just not doing it, and you're seeing it as like, well I’m doing something healthier, but at the same time, it’s creating a lot of change that they maybe didn’t sign up for or ask for. So, I think it’s just about being sensitive to that, and just kind of moving forward and making sure it’s your thing and not trying to impose it.
Be open and kind when they have questions about it, and try not to beat them up for what they’re going to choose to eat, because that’s probably a really hard situation when you sit down with some salmon and some veggies, and a really healthy looking meal, and they’re not ready to make that change. It’s not going to be comfortable if you have this argumentative attitude about it.
Liz Wolfe: Yup. I get ticked off and offended when my husband says, you want to go work out? When really he just wants to come hang out with me. {laughs} “Oh really, what’s that supposed to mean? You think I didn’t do squats today? You think I didn’t do that while you were gone?” I get upset.
Diane Sanfilippo: You think I’m not carrying this thing around, and it’s like, I’m wearing a weight vest around all day.
Liz Wolfe: Oh, yeah, why don’t you do some squats with 30 pounds of amniotic fluid on your shoulders.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: But you know, some things, it’s like, babe I’m going to cook a healthy dinner. Well what’s that supposed to mean? All my dinners my entire life have been unhealthy? What are you trying to say?
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, like instantly they’re put on the defensive and feel like it’s a judgment on them, even if that’s not what you intended.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah for sure.
Liz Wolfe: Totes.
8. Diane’s Kitchen tip: Browning a roast for slow cooking [1:02:42]
Liz Wolfe: Ok, so it’s time for Diane’s kitchen tip, and I actually have a question for you to answer, if that’s ok Diane.
Diane Sanfilippo: Ok.
Liz Wolfe: OK. So, I know that you’re supposed to sear meat that you’re planning for a roast, or whatever, you’re supposed to sear it on all sides before you put it in to slow cook, right?
Diane Sanfilippo: I don’t slow cook, but ok. I’m just kidding! {laughs} Yes.
Liz Wolfe: But you're supposed to do that?
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.
Liz Wolfe: So my question is, I get we’re supposed to do that to maybe seal in flavor or something like that, you can correct me if I’m wrong. But also, I never understand how long you’re supposed to keep the meat on one side before you flip it over. Are you supposed to have to really work to get it up off the bottom of the pan, or should the meat naturally release from the bottom of the pan before you flip it?
Diane Sanfilippo: Oooh. Good question. I like that.
Liz Wolfe: Thank you.
Diane Sanfilippo: Ok, so a couple of things here. One, the idea of it sealing in juices, I believe this was something I learned from either Alton Brown or America’s Test Kitchen, or one of the nerdy food podcasts I listen to that that theory is not quite a true as we thought, where it’s sealing in the juices. But, what it actually does, you know the browning affect is called the Maillard Reaction, where it’s actually browning some of the protein, which we know if we’re charring them too much, that may not be healthy to just eat charred food all the time. But the browning effect is what develops some of that flavor, because it’s changing the structure of the proteins on the surface of the meat. But it does add a ton of flavor. What will happen over time if you’re slow cooking it is that the browning will actually kind of disappear, so you won’t even see it anymore because the proteins get so broken down in any kind of slow cooking liquid or anything like that. So you don’t see it anymore, but some of the resulting flavor will always be in the dish.
When you’re searing meat, you want to have enough fat in the pan to make sure it’s not going to stick, but generally it should give from the pan when it’s done searing on one side. So if it’s sticking too much; this happens a lot with chicken, although chicken is not a type of meat that you would generally sear the same way, to brown it like you would a different type of red meat or pork. But if it’s sticking, it’s just not ready yet. You didn’t sear it long enough. And you generally would sear over a medium high heat, or a high heat depending on the pan and how big the cut of meat is. But around 1-3 minutes, depending on how big that cut is. If it’s a big roast, 2-3 minutes on a side is probably fine. It’s not super scientific in terms of, generally if you’re searing a pork chop or a steak, you really have to watch it and be a little more careful with making sure you’re doing it evenly on both sides, so you don’t have an unevenly cooked piece of meat. But with a big roast that you’re about to slow cook, it’s really about developing the flavor, it’s not about super even cooking, so I wouldn’t be too worried about that. But generally, I would guess around 2-3 minutes. I would generally set a kitchen timer, that’s what my microwave is best used for, and I set that timer, and I just turn it each time.
One other thing I wanted to mention that was kind of a cool thing I learned also recently listening to America’s Test Kitchen, so if you don’t listen that’s a good podcast if you’re into cooking techniques and gadgets and all that good stuff, was that the purpose of fat in the pan was to create a connective layer between the pan and the meat. So if you think about the unevenness of the meat against the pan; it’s almost never super flat, right?
Liz Wolfe: Uh-huh.
Diane Sanfilippo: So the fat that’s kind of just sitting there heating up is creating the conductor between the pan and the meat. Isn’t that cool?
Liz Wolfe: That’s so cool!
Diane Sanfilippo: I never thought about that. And I was like, well isn’t that neat?! As I sizzled my egg this morning in a whole bunch of ghee. I thought that was pretty cool. So yeah, just make sure you have a good amount of fat in the pan when you’re doing that to make sure you get a good tasty sear on that meat.
Liz Wolfe: I love it.
Diane Sanfilippo: Awesome. Send me some food, I’ll give you my address, you can make me something delicious.
Liz Wolfe: {laughing} Good luck with that.
9. Liz’s tip of the week: holistic point of view on the linea nigra [1:06:48]
Diane Sanfilippo: Ok Liz. What’s your tip for us this week?
Liz Wolfe: Alright, so this isn’t so much of a tip as a really cool tidbit. And this one is actually from Meg the midwife. Meg is so smart, and there’s been this mystery called the linea nigra, I probably say it wrong, but it’s basically that line on pregnant women that will go, sometimes above the belly button, but from the belly button down towards the pubic bone. And it’s just that little brown line that appears in pregnancy. And I never really understood what that was for, and even my mother-in-law, who has been in maternal fetal medicine for 30 years had no explanation for it whatsoever.
I asked Meg about it, and she said, well there is kind of a holistic perspective on what it’s for, and that is to give the baby a little bit of a guideline of where to crawl to get to the chest when they’re first born.
Diane Sanfilippo: Shut up!
Liz Wolfe: Is that fascinating or what?
Diane Sanfilippo: Get out.
Liz Wolfe: I just thought that was amazing, and my mother-in-law did too, which is cool, because she’s very much on the conventional medical side of things. She’s a hospital administrator. She was like, wow, that makes sense, as this biological adaptation to enable to baby to crawl up to the breast. Because we all know that the breasts go through some changes and some darkening when you first give birth, and that is basically meant as a bulls eye for the baby to crawl up to.
Diane Sanfilippo: That is crazy!
Liz Wolfe: I think it’s so cool, right?
Diane Sanfilippo: The body is really cool.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: Hmm. Interesting. Alright.
Liz Wolfe: I know. Got to love Meg the midwife, she just knows all the things.
Diane Sanfilippo: Is that going to be her actual Instagram account? Because now that you’ve said it, I think it should be.
Liz Wolfe: I know, she probably should.
Diane Sanfilippo: Just go tell her that. Just text her real quick.
Liz Wolfe: I’ll ask her about it. Right now it’s Meghanne_Reburne.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, you should tell her to just make it Meg the midwife. I think everyone will be able to find her like that.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah, I think you’re right.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: Meg, if you’re listening to this, I’ll probably talk to you before that. So yeah, pretty cool though.
Liz Wolfe: You can find Diane at http://dianesanfilippo.com, and join me, Liz, at http://realfoodliz.com/. Join our email lists for free goodies and updates that you don’t want to miss. And while you’re on the internet, leave us an iTunes review. We’ll see you next week.
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