Podcast Episode #203: Micronutrient nerd-out with Jayson and Mira Calton

Topics:
1. Introducing Mira and Jayson Calton [2:13] 2. The Micronutrient Miracle [9:26] 3. How to tell if we’re absorbing nutrients [13:46] 4. Supplements versus whole food approach [16:58] 5. Everyday Micronutrient Depletors [21:32] 6. Becoming sufficient in vitamin C [26:02] 7. Blood testing micronutrients [27:37] 8. Competition between micronutrients [29:51] 9. Micronutrient synergy in whole foods [33:50] 10. Top 5 micronutrient deficiencies [37:49] 11. Plant versus animal sources of nutrients [45:23] 12. The micronutrient perspective [53:33] 13. Micronutrient multivitamin Nutreince [58:45] 14. Prerelease promotion of Micronutrient Miracle [1:09:36] [smart_track_player url=”http://traffic.libsyn.com/balancedbites/203_final.mp3″ title=”#203: Micronutrient nerd-out with Jayson and Mira Calton” artist=”Diane Sanfilippo & Liz Wolfe ” color=”00AEEF” social=”true” social_twitter=”true” social_facebook=”true” social_gplus=”true” ]

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Balance Bites: Episode #203: Micronutrient nerd-out with Jayson and Mira Calton

You’re listening to the Balanced Bites podcast episode 203.

Welcome to the Balanced Bites podcast with Diane Sanfilippo and Liz Wolfe. Diane is a certified nutrition consultant, and the New York Times bestselling author of Practical Paleo, The 21-Day Sugar Detox, and co-author of Mediterranean Paleo Cooking. Liz is a nutritional therapy practitioner, and the best-selling author of Eat the Yolks and The Purely Primal Skincare Guide. Together, Diane and Liz answer your questions, interview leading health and wellness experts, and share their take on modern paleo living with their friendly and balanced approach. Remember our disclaimer: The materials and content within this podcast are intended as general information only, and are not to be considered a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.

Diane Sanfilippo: Hey guys! Welcome back to the Balanced Bites podcast. I’m super excited today; I’m already giggling and chuckling over here because I have my good friends, Jayson and Mira Calton as my guests today on the show. But before we get into the interview, let’s hear a word from our sponsor.

Diane Sanfilippo: Pete’s Paleo is a friend of the Balanced Bites podcast. They’re bacon is insanely delicious, and sugar free, and their premade paleo meals make your life so much easier when everything is getting busy and getting real food on the table is still a top priority, as it should be. Pete’s paleo is now offering a 30-day gut healing kit containing bone broth, gelatin gummies, instant organic soup packs, and an E-cookbook. It’s the perfect complement to any anti-inflammatory diet. Get yours today at guthealingkit.com. Use code GRABACUPPABROTH to get $25 off; that’s an amazing deal. It’s GRABACUPPABROTH, C-U-P-P-A. And you can grab that code at any time at BalancedBites.com to just read and make sure you’re typing it in right. You can also use code BALANCEDBITES to get $5 off any of their regular meal plans. Check out PetesPaleo.com today. Pete’s Paleo; bringing fine dining to your cave.

1. Introducing Mira and Jayson Calton [2:13]

Diane Sanfilippo: Alright, so I have had the pleasure of interviewing Jayson and Mira already for the show. On episode 23, we talked about their first book, Naked Calories; on episode 75, we talked about Rich Food, Poor Food. And in between there, a few times I’ve traveled, I don’t know, I guess we could say parts of the world together, on the low-carb cruise, and then we were in South America last year. Needless to say, I’ve gotten to know these two really well, and they’re some of my favorite people in this whole nutrition-sphere. They are micronutrient experts. So, just to give you a really quick bio, and then I’m going to let them talk more about themselves; the Calton's are among the world’s leading experts on weight management, lifestyle medicine, and micronutrient deficiency. It’s their belief that becoming micronutrient sufficient is the first step toward preventing and reversing many of today’s health conditions and diseases. They appear regularly on national TV, and are the authors of the new book, Micronutrient Miracle. Welcome!

Mira Calton: Aww, thanks!

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Jayson Calton: It’s good to be here again.

Diane Sanfilippo: I remember our first interview, and then the first time we met in real life on the low-carb cruise, I remember, and I think I joked about this last time, too. I was like, I don’t know about that Mira, she’s so bubbly, I don’t know if we’re really get along. {laughing}

Mira Calton: And now we travel together!

Diane Sanfilippo: And you really are bubbly, this is your normal; Mira only has bubbly or sleeping, I think.

Jayson Calton: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: Is that right, Jayson?

Jayson Calton: It is absolutely true. And you know, you and I are really so much alike. It’s no surprise to me that you get along with her, because it’s strange for me to get along with somebody so bubbly, too.

Mira Calton: {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Jayson Calton: It just works.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, and Jayson and I actually have the same birthday, so we’re not surprised that we do all get along really well. And I joked and I sent this in my email recently to my emailing list, how Bill and Hayley are really good friends of mine, and when I first met them, I was like their third wheel, and then when I met you guys; this was all before I met Scott, so I was a third wheel to everyone. And I was very quickly a third wheel to you guys, because you’re just really easy to be around and spend time with. So that’s just a little bit of background on how we all know each other.

Mira Calton: Well we were nervous to have the fourth wheel when we met Scott.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Mira Calton: We were like, are we all going to get along in this little car?

Jayson Calton: {laughs}

Mira Calton: But actually, it’s so much fun traveling with you guys, because we all like the same thing. Going out, having really good food, and touring the world.

Diane Sanfilippo: And relaxing and eating.

Mira Calton: {laughs} Yeah!

Diane Sanfilippo: I mean, it’s like pretty much {laughs} anybody who likes to eat is a good friend to me.

Mira Calton: I don’t think I’ve ever sat at any table with people that actually stare at their food, and go, oh my god, no, no, no, this flavor, no this flavor!

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, we get way too excited. Well, why don’t you tell our listeners; I did mention that we have episodes 23 and 75; so if you guys are like, I want to hear more about these two and get a little bit more of their story, because I know we’re going to kind of be a little bit brief with some of your background. But why don’t you give people the high level overview of who you are and what your background and experience and all that stuff is so that we can get into a bunch of questions. We have a ton of questions from our listeners.

Mira Calton: Ok, ladies first so I’ll go. Now, I’m a licensed certified nutritionist. But I came to nutrition because when I was 30, I was a publicist in New York City, I was diagnosed with advanced osteoporosis. So I had 80-year-old bones at the age of 30, and basically given no hope. Told that I was going to have to be on medication, and that I had to have my family take care of me. Which, I did have them have to take care of me for a while. But then I started to look into nutrition, and figured out, the way a lot of people here have probably also become interested in nutrition, that you can heal your own body.

I worked with Jayson for 2 years at micronutrient therapy, which actually the protocol for that is actually in the new book. And in 2 years, we reversed my osteoporosis. So I got so interested in it, I went back to school, became a nutritionist, and now it’s my passion.

Diane Sanfilippo: I’ve heard that story so many times; I’m not kidding that I get goose bumps every time you even get to the resolution of it, even without the full story that I know more about. It’s like, just hearing that, I did. I just get goose bumps. Because I can hear how your voice also changes as you go through the story.

Mira Calton: {laughs} You know me that well.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah! And it’s like a devastating story and also the most positive, too, because you’ve come through it and done so much with that struggle. I think that is what so many people listening can relate to that they’ve gone through or are going through these major nutritional health challenges and feel like they don’t know how they’re going to come out of it.

Mira Calton: Yeah, I have to say, the one thing that has changed my every single day experience is, we get to open emails from other people who are also sending in those stories. And that’s really being able to respond to those people and help them right away; that’s really what keeps us going. Because this is a lot of work; you know, all this is a lot of work, but it’s those stories, and helping those people, and reversing other women’s osteoporosis; it’s really exciting.

Diane Sanfilippo: So Jayson, why don’t you give a little background on your experience and where you come from with all this stuff?

Jayson Calton: Sure. Well, you know, I’ve been in the nutrition world for about 25 years now. I guess that’s a long time.

Mira Calton: {laughs}

Jayson Calton: You know, as far as my education, I majored in molecular and microbiology, or pre-med, and I have a PhD in human nutrition, and I sit on a bunch of boards, and I do a lot of publishing work, and all that kind of stuff. But I think for me the most important thing about my background is I just really love to work with people, and I’m always fascinating with how much you can do; how much you can improve your health with nutrition. That’s what really got me into this field. I was just amazed at what proper nutrition could do for the human body.

At the very beginning of my career, I was involved in bodybuilding, which is kind of all these weird things, but what you see is that you can create an amazing change in the body with nutrition. That’s kind of what got me into the whole thing. And now, after working with thousands of clients, I’ve seen that nutrition can obviously affect muscle growth; but it can also obviously affect rebuilding of the bones, and pretty much every health condition and disease that we’re all suffering from. So it’s a real passion of mine to educate people about the power of micronutrients.

Diane Sanfilippo: I love when we all do spend time together, we bounce around on our topics from, I know you guys are huge wine buffs and I’m totally not a drinker. I want to drink, and I try.

Jayson Calton: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: And on our last vacation, I was getting indigestion. I’m like, this is so annoying! But I love that it’s so ingrained in your, every fiber of who you guys are, and it’s the way we are too; Scott and I, like health and wellness is just part of who we are. We talk about things that are maybe silly; we were gambling in the casino, and then we end up talking about nutrition and dorky topics because it’s just stuff that we love to talk about.

Mira Calton: {laughs}

2. The Micronutrient Miracle [9:26]

Diane Sanfilippo: I love to talk to you guys about this stuff; I love to do it in this context, so I’m really excited we have so many good questions from our listeners. So I’m going to dig into some of the questions. I know throughout today’s interview, your new book, Micronutrient Miracle; do you want to just quickly touch on what’s new and different about that book, because I know our listeners probably have, if they don’t have Naked Calories or they don’t have Rich Food, Poor Food, tell them a little bit about the new book and why you wanted to create it and just a little bit of background there.

Mira Calton: Well, Naked Calories talked about theory, basically. It was why micronutrients are so important. And Rich Food, Poor Food basically told you what foods to eat for it. But we kept getting like thousands of letters going, what’s your protocol? And what do you actually do for the diet? How do I put all this together? So that’s what we did with this book. This book is completely different in that it is, it’s a 28-day protocol for building micronutrient sufficiency to rebuild your health. It could optimize your health in all sorts of different ways.

The cool thing is, we had it; so we have a standard protocol, or a signature protocol, which is just for micronutrient sufficiency. But then we also focus on 8 other condition-specific protocols. So there’s my protocol that I use for osteoporosis. There’s one for autoimmune; for digestive health; there’s a ketogenic protocol, blood sugar regulation, fat loss. We go into a whole bunch of different things, and that really focuses on just the micronutrients that have been shown in studies to be the best for preventing and for reversing and for healing that condition that that person wants to go in at. It’s very, very focused and personalized, which we’re enjoying.

Jayson Calton: Yeah, the other thing we did with this book that was different is, we really gave the people all the tools that they need to identify their personal micronutrient deficiencies. So in our first book, we had our significant kind of micronutrient sufficiency analysis, which we still have in this book, which gives you a kind of a personal score where you fall on deficiency/sufficiency, and that’s great to know. But with this one, we dig even deeper, and we look at the health conditions that you’re suffering from, and the related micronutrient deficiencies that science has shown could be causing or could be at the root of those problems so you can start to understand exactly what micronutrients you want to focus in on. We look at the medications that you're taking, we look at the foods that you’re eating so we can identify some of the antinutrients. And by the time you’re done with all this kind of busy work; which, you know, it does take a little bit of time but we’ve made it relatively easy to do, you’ve got a really personalized clear picture of your micronutrient sufficiency level; it’s not just kind of an overview.

Diane Sanfilippo: I love it. That’s awesome. I know with Practical Paleo, one of the things that makes the book so user friendly and why people do love it so much in terms of meal plans; which, I don’t personally follow meal plans because it’s so stressful for me, but I also don’t have a health condition that I’m working on healing. It’s something that people find so useful and just provides so much clarity, because if you come from a doctor’s appointment, for example, with a diagnosis of a certain health condition, or you go through your quiz and you discover, ok here’s what I want to focus on, then of course, the answer is, ok what next and who’s going to hold my hand through it? Instead of necessarily spending thousands of dollars on a one on one support system from a naturopath or something like that, we have these resources that can take people so far right from a book. So I think that’s awesome; I’m really glad you guys structured it in that way, I think it’s really going to help a lot of people, so that’s awesome.

Jayson Calton: We actually learned a lot from you on the way, on how to structure it.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Good.

Mira Calton: We had many conversations about that.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, yeah.

Jayson Calton: So successful and people did it so well, we thought, that just really, really works.

Mira Calton: And we always wanted to do an osteoporosis one, because we get that question so often, obviously. So once we started to put that in the book, we were like, wait a minute, we can’t just focus on osteoporosis people!

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. And the thing is, I’m sure as you’re going through it, and the same thing happened with me in Practical Paleo, it’s like there are a lot of similarities but there are nuances that are different, obviously. So I think that’s great. I don’t have a protocol for osteoporosis, so I think it’s going to be a great way for people to just take control of their own health. And I’ve seen a bunch; I’m not the first to do it, I’m sure, and I won’t be the last to structure things in that way, but hey, when something is really helping people, of course take that path. I think that’s fantastic.

3. How to tell if we’re absorbing nutrients [13:46]

Diane Sanfilippo: Ok, we have a lot of questions that are about different specific health challenges, but I want to start with a few of the more general ones. So this one is from Pencils and Pancakes on Instagram, and she wants to know; “how do we know we’re actually absorbing nutrients?” and I think she probably means partially from food, but also from supplements, because I know a lot of people are wondering, am I even absorbing what I’m taking if I’m taking supplements?

Mira Calton: Yeah, there’s a couple of things here. If you’re urine is a bright color, you’re probably taking an excess of some of the B vitamins. A lot of people have that after taking a multivitamin; that’s a common thing. And that basically means it’s rushing in and out of you. So that’s one sign. Additionally, if you’re taking something in a hard shelled multivitamin, chances are you’re not absorbing as much as you could. The absorption test that they do on these multivitamins have proven that only about 50% of them actually disintegrate in your body. So if that’s how yours has been taken, because a lot of them have things like shellac and wax, because they want them to last longer.

Also, if you’re not feeling well, chances are; you’ve got two options. Either you're not getting enough in, or you’re not absorbing what you are taking in. Because you shouldn’t feel ill; you shouldn’t have a disease. So if you are having symptoms of something, then you probably are likely not getting in your micronutrients that you should be absorbing.

Jayson Calton: Yeah, there’s been a lot of research on this topic, and I think this is a good place to start, especially when we’re talking about micronutrients, because the majority of people get their micronutrients, when they feel they’re not getting enough from their food, from a supplement, and they go to the store and they buy a multivitamin, and they think, we’ll I’m going to take it and I’m probably going to get some benefit from it. I’m going to absorb it. But there was a study actually done not too long ago, published in the Journal of Pharmacy and Pharmaceutical Sciences that Mira was talking about, and it literally looked at 49 multivitamins right off the shelf, and like she said, 51% didn’t absorb in a 20 minute period.

And let’s just give some names of those, because a lot of times people are like, well maybe I’m taking one of those. Because it was a published study, peer reviewed, some of the big names that didn’t disintegrate at all were the Kirkland’s Significant Formula from Costco, and another real big one that a lot of people might take is the GNC Mega Man. So it’s not necessarily the most popular multivitamins are the best; you’ve got to really look at whether or not you can absorb. And we’ve gone a lot into this in what we call our ABCs of optimal supplementation guidelines, which we have a whole chapter of in the book. We go over every single aspect that can affect absorption.

Mira Calton: Yeah, some forms are better absorbed than others, as well. Absorbed and utilized in the body, so that’s another thing. You want to make sure you’re using the best forms, always. In the book, we have an actual outline of exactly which form we like for which micronutrient, and why we like that form, and which study we refer to on that form. So that’s another thing that has to do with the absorption; is it a form that is actually absorbable by the body.

4. Supplements versus whole food approach [16:58]

Diane Sanfilippo: Awesome. So of course we have big discussions on this show about getting as much nutrition as possible from our food. So we have a question from Jessica, she said, “I have heard time after time it’s always better to get micronutrients from whole food sources.” She’s curious how your supplements or any other vitamin supplements on the market, how they compete with whole food. I know that you guys have done a lot of extensive analysis on different diets and how they stack up. Do you want to talk a little bit about that?

Jayson Calton: Well first, we are also, as you know, whole food people. We have a three-step plan for micronutrient sufficiency. The first step and the most important step is the eating what we call rich foods, or foods that are rich in essential micronutrients. The other two steps are looking at your lifestyle, and of course supplementation. So I will say that I don’t know if we will ever create a supplement that will even hold a candle to the power of real food. So we like you and her, this woman, we believe that you should be getting it in through real food. But the problem is our real food, or our rich food of today is not the food of our ancestors. It just isn’t. We’re not even playing the same game.

So what we call food today is food that has been grown in micronutrient depleted soil. It may be food that’s been grown from genetically modified seeds. It could be food like cattle or chickens that were raised in unnatural environment and fed genetically modified feed. It could be food that was grown on a different continent and shipped over to us. So all of these things affect the micronutrient levels of the food.

We looked at pretty much every diet there was; we looked at vegan diets, vegetarian diets, paleo diets, high carb diets, low carb diets, weight watcher diets, all of them. And every single one of them, and here’s the real truth; all diets, across the board, fall short in some micronutrients. So to go out there and say, well I’m going to follow a diet that’s going to give me everything that I need, I don’t have to worry about supplementation. That’s kind of honestly what we were crossing our fingers and hoping to find

Mira Calton: {laughs}

Jayson Calton: Because then it would be a much easier book just to write a book, hey this diet does it all! But we didn’t find one. In fact, I think the best where it was around 56% sufficient at a normal calorie range of around 2000 to 2500.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, and I think, for some people if that’s their mission, that they don’t want to take any supplements or there’s something going on with their body that they can’t, I’m sure there are ways that people can be super calculated. They’ll eat adrenal glands and liver and brain and kidney, and really eating completely nose to tail eating every vegetable, but it’s almost like you can’t even sit down and eat that much food all the time, and then sourcing it and cooking it. I know very few people who would take it to that level, so the answer then for them is that it’s not really possible within this realm unless that’s literally going to be 100% of your life and your time is dedicated to spending time sourcing and cooking food in a certain way to build this diet.

Mira Calton: Our goal was sustainability and being realistic about the world that we live in. {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: Right.

Mira Calton: So, you know, if that’s somebody’s goal and they want to sit there and say, ok, I’m falling so short on this one specific micronutrient, find food that has this one micronutrient that’s not blocking another micronutrient because of micronutrient competition. You know, there’s a lot of science that this person is going to have to go through in order to figure this out.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yep.

Mira Calton: if that’s your realistic life, then bravo. But for the vast majority of us, it’s just not realistic.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, and I think what we see typically is, people do want to eat real food, they want to eat healthy things that are nutrient rich; but, there is a limit to what’s practical for everyone to accomplish and a limit to what’s practical even for what we’re going to feed our families. I know even if there’s a mom or a dad who’s like, ok, I’m willing to eat adrenal glands because I’m eating low carb and I’m not getting a lot of vitamin C, so I’m going to eat adrenal glands. Well, good luck sharing that with the family, and making that workable every day.

Mira Calton: Right.

Diane Sanfilippo: Hey; people can do it.

Mira Calton: Not only that, the other thing is people sit there, and they’re like, ok well I got it all, I did the math, and I plugged it all into one of these food counters, and it looks like I’m 100% sufficient. Well then life hits, and you have to take out, what did you lose from stress? What did you lose from exercise?

5. Everyday Micronutrient Depletors [21:32]

Diane Sanfilippo: So why don’t you talk about some of the everyday micronutrient depletors?

Mira Calton: EMDs! {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. {laughs} I know that’s a big one, and we do have some questions about that in terms of exercise, so why don’t you touch on that, because Liz and I have talked a whole bunch about how stress depletes nutrients and people are thinking they’re getting enough, but truthfully, some of our nutrients kind of stay with us longer and some of them are really quick and easy to deplete. So can you talk a little bit more about that?

Mira Calton: Yeah. First of all, EMDs are everyday micronutrient depletors. They’re things that sneak into your life that take away the micronutrients that you think you ate and should still be in your body and able for use. They come in things like food; so those are your antinutrients, those are things like phytic acid and oxalic acid, lectins, tannins, trypsin inhibitors, alcohol, caffeine, those things. And then there are the things in life that are also robbing you of micronutrients, and those are things like stress, if you live in a big city with pollution, your exercise.

Stress is a really big one, because it just affects you so quickly. You just get depleted so rapidly from being in a stressful situation. And the micronutrients that you deplete, that cause that fight or flight reaction in your body, it’s pretty amazing because in studies, they’ve done tests where they’ve made them sufficient in these same micronutrients that get depleted when you feel stressed, and when they tried to stress out the people who were sufficient, they couldn’t. Their body did not react to the same stressful situations. So it’s pretty amazing; that’s vitamin C and omega-3 those studies were done on.

But that’s just amazing to think, your body will deplete really rapidly the vitamin C and the B vitamins; but if you just have enough of them, then you don’t even feel the stress in the first place.

Jayson Calton: Yeah, let’s talk about some specific vitamins that are dealing with stress. Mira mentioned the vitamin C, and we’ll tie that back into exercise in a minute. But when you're looking at vitamin B1 and vitamin B5, they help fight off stress by maintaining proper functions of the adrenal glands .A lot of people have adrenal fatigue, and obviously these glands are very important in fighting against stress. Also, vitamin B6 and vitamin B9 help to equip you to better deal with the stress that you do experience by aiding in the formation of chemicals called neurotransmitters, which are necessary for balancing your emotions.

So that’s why a lot of times people say, well go take a B-complex if you have a lot of stress. And that’s good starting advice, and then of course in the Micronutrient Miracle we’ll start to talk about how the B families relate to one another. If anybody has ever been to a big family gathering, you’ll know that there are certain members of certain families that get along…

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Jayson Calton: And then certain members that don’t, right?

Mira Calton: {laughs}

Jayson Calton: So the Bs are exactly the same way. And it’s really fun to think about, wow just take a B-complex, but it doesn’t work that way necessarily when it comes to absorption. So again, going back to that same question; it’s not necessarily just throwing everything together that’s going to get you the best absorption. You’ve got to know which ones are compatible and which ones aren’t.

And then when it comes to exercise, remember that exercise is just another form of stress. In fact, when we talk about muscle growth, we talk about being able to stress the muscle to a certain extent so that the body responds by building a bigger and a stronger muscle. Well, it takes a ton of micronutrients to orchestrate that event; it’s going to take calcium, it’s going to take magnesium, and one of the interesting things about vitamin C is that if you are sufficient in vitamin C, research has shown that you’ll burn 25% more calories doing the same exercise as an individual who is deficient in vitamin C.

Diane Sanfilippo: That is really interesting.

Jayson Calton: Yeah.

Mira Calton: Isn’t that cool?

Diane Sanfilippo: That’s really interesting.

Mira Calton: Quick little hack of how to burn your calories faster.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. Well really interesting, too, because we know that people who have more muscle mass burn more calories at rest; and that’s kind of like, ok, so people can gain muscle mass, but at a certain point you’re like, this is the body I’m going to have, how do I burn more? {laughs} I mean, getting sufficient in your vitamin C.

Jayson Calton: With the same effort, that’s what really.

Diane Sanfilippo: Interesting, yeah.

Jayson Calton: A lot of times, people go into a health food store, and they’ll say, ok how am I going to burn this fat off? And they’ll use things like ephedrine and caffeine and aspirin and all kinds of fat burners. But think about it; vitamin C has a 25% greater fat burning.

Mira Calton: {laughs}

Jayson Calton: That’s huge for an essential micronutrient.

Mira Calton: It’s more than the other ones.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.

Jayson Calton: Really, it actually is, if you look at the research, they’re not seeing that kind of result from all these potential harmful fat burners.

6. Becoming sufficient in vitamin C [26:02]

Diane Sanfilippo: So how easy, and how difficult is it for us to become sufficient in vitamin C, just either eating food or supplementing. How do we get there? How do we know that we’re becoming sufficient in vitamin C?

Mira Calton: Well, obviously always err on the side of taking some, you know, of supplementing with it. It’s not a micronutrient that you’re going to OD on. Basically you get loose stool if you take too much, so you’re going to know you’re taking too much. Additionally, it doesn’t have a lot of competitors, so the good news is you can pretty much take it any time with anything, and you don’t have to worry about that either.

Jayson Calton: Yeah, there are some micronutrients that compete with each other, and then there are some that we call these universal micronutrients, and of course vitamin C is an antioxidant, so it’s just good for you. The overall RDI, or the minimum amount that basically we think you need in order to prevent scurvy, which isn’t saying much.

Mira Calton: {laughing}

Jayson Calton: Is 60 mg. There’s a lot of people; Linus Pauling was huge into vitamin C, and really kind of perpetuated the mega dosing with vitamin C, and that’s typically around 1000 mg mark or more. But you don’t need that much to become sufficient.

Mira Calton: Additionally; yeah, if you’re wondering if you're sufficient, I guess we could talk about how you’d know for a fact. If you really, really want to know, you’re what we call a calculating client, and you’re one of these people that, you know they just want to see it on paper, if you want to know if you’re sufficient, go get a test. And the best test out there is the SpectraCell blood test, in our opinion.

7. Blood testing micronutrients [27:37]

Diane Sanfilippo: We do have a question, someone was asking, is there a test, and is it a blood test. Will that be an across the board micronutrient test?

Mira Calton: It’s across the board, and the cool thing about it is it actually tests how the micronutrient is functioning in the body. So rather than just testing the blood to see if it’s in there, it actually tests to see if the factors it’s supposed to create, or if the enzymes it’s supposed to work on, all these things that it tests to see if those functions are happening, so you can tell down the line if it’s actually working and if you’re body is absorbing it rather than it just being in the blood. And the problem with that; were you going to tell them the story about the calcium in the blood?

Jayson Calton: No, no.

Mira Calton: Oh, I’ll tell them then.

Jayson Calton: Yeah.

Mira Calton: The problem with {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Mira Calton: He looked at me funny. The problem with that is, for example with calcium, if you just get a regular blood test, your blood can show that you’ve got plenty of calcium in your blood. That doesn’t mean your bones are absorbing it. We had a woman who was vegan who went and got her blood work done, and they told her that her calcium was great, and her vitamin D level was bad. She had just finished reading our book, and she was like, that’s not possible, because I don’t eat foods that contain calcium. And I’m vegan, so I eat a lot of things that have phytic acid, and oxalic acid, and I shouldn’t have any calcium in my blood. She was like, so I went back and got a DEXA scan, and I found out I had advanced osteoporosis, and scoliosis already. So it showed enough calcium in the blood, but obviously it was just leaching it off of the bones. So the regular blood test is not the one to get at your doctor’s office. It’s a specialized test called a SpectraCell that we recommend.

Jayson Calton: Yeah, and just again to focus in a little bit more in depth, because I know everybody listening really like the in-depth knowledge on the micronutrients.

Mira Calton: {laughs}

Jayson Calton: Vitamin C is one of those water soluble vitamins; so there’s fat soluble vitamins and there’s water soluble vitamins, and you really want to be taking it twice a day. Research shows that it goes through the body in about 12 hours, so if you are going to be using a supplement, you definitely want to have one twice a day.

Mira Calton: Twice a day.

Jayson Calton: And you get vitamin C in both doses.

Diane Sanfilippo: I’m taking that. I’m guess that my Nutreince has vitamin C in both doses {laughs}.

Jayson Calton: {laughs}

Mira Calton: {laughs} Hey, we wouldn’t leave the one that does calorie burn out!

8. Competition between micronutrients [29:51]

Diane Sanfilippo: So, quickly do you guys want to touch on; you don’t have to get into all the details of the behind the scenes of how you formulated your own multivitamin. And we’ll talk a little bit more about that before we wrap up the show because we have a lot of questions here I do want to get to, but because you’re talking a little bit about the micronutrient competition issue, what are some micronutrients that folks are typically taking together in supplements that they’re finding out there or they might already be putting together themselves that are some of the biggest no-no’s, that you see that people are taking together that truthfully, when it comes to competition, they really shouldn’t be taken together in the way that they are out there.

Jayson Calton: I think one of the big ones, and again because we’re coming from that background of osteoporosis.

Mira Calton: {laughs}

Jayson Calton: A lot of our research kind of stems from that, I think magnesium and calcium is a big one. You see that a lot, and there’s research that shows; so, there’s competitors and there’s synergist, right. So when you're formulating something, whatever it is, whether a multivitamin or any supplement, you try to use the research. And the problem is there’s research showing that magnesium helps the absorption of calcium. So it stands to reason that you’d put some magnesium in your calcium pill. So does vitamin D, by the way.

The problem is what they’re not looking at and what they may not know or just not care about is that calcium basically blocks the absorption of magnesium. So it works only in one direction. So if you’re taking something that has calcium and magnesium together.

Mira Calton: Those bone building complexes.

Jayson Calton: Bone building complexes, and you think you’re getting the magnesium that you need every day, because you see the 400 mg or whatever is there on the bottle; you’re probably not. So you definitely, while it can help the absorption, I think vitamin D does it better, and so we separate those two. So that’s kind of a no-no.

Mira Calton: There’s a bunch of other ones. Basically, the B9 folate and zinc, you don’t want to be taking those together. Lutein and beta carotene; that was one that we always talk about the studies on that, because they would always put them together in eye related studies, because both of them have been shown to help vision, especially age related macular degeneration. And when they finally separated them out; in one study the scientists actually called it earth shattering or something like that, because he’s like it improved their eyesight 76% of the time. Just separating those two micronutrients.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.

Mira Calton: So it’s really one of those, that’s one of those if you do have any sort of eye vision problems, make sure you’re taking lutein and beta carotene. Additionally, one thing is that 6 mg of lutein, for anyone listening, is really the amount you want. 6 mg is the amount they’re showing is actually helping with age related macular degeneration.

Zinc and copper; you don’t want those in the same formulation. Let’s see; some of the B vitamins; you don’t want B5 and B7; and you definitely want iron. {laughs}

Jayson Calton: That’s what I was just going to say. Iron is the most competitive micronutrient. It competes with 10 different micronutrients. Now, you’ve probably seen a big trend of taking iron out of most multivitamin formulations, and that’s…

Mira Calton: Good.

Jayson Calton: An attempt of multivitamin manufacturers to try to help with the absorption. So you definitely do not want; that doesn’t mean you don’t need iron. A lot of times people will come back and they’re doctors will tell them that they’re anemic or they’re low in the iron. If you do do that, you want to be taking your iron in the afternoon, kind of between or away from your other supplementation. And it’s a good idea, because most iron is non-heme iron on the market today that we’re going to be taking in supplement form, you might want to take some extra vitamin C with that, because that will help with the absorption of iron. So there are kind of good tips on some synergies and some competitions. We could go on forever, and it can get complicated.

Mira Calton: Yeah. And one other thing is, synergies don’t work if you still have competitions in play. So that’s one of Jayson’s; one thing we realized along the way. It doesn’t matter if you start throwing the synergist in, because the synergist can’t help unblock somebody. He can’t pull the other micronutrient off the guy, and say, ok get in there.

9. Micronutrient synergy in whole foods [33:50]

Diane Sanfilippo: And what you’re talking about is pretty much when we’re looking at supplements, but how then does this come back to whole food sources of nutrients? I know we talk about a lot of things; like, ok let’s talk about yogurt for example, from a grass-fed cow, which we all agree on this show is a healthy source of nutrition. It’s going to be rich in calcium, right, at least to some level. Vitamin K2 if it was from grass-fed cows, which we know is helpful for calcium absorption; but is there also some magnesium in there? How does it work if you’ve got nutrients that do come in a whole food that can be competitive but we know that in the whole food it’s kind of a better way for our body to digest and absorb it. Is it because there are so many other things in there? Why is it that our body seems to do really well with it when it is in a whole food if we can get it there?

Jayson Calton: First of all, great question, and I think we have to talk about this. Because food has just this innate wisdom in it. Here’s what a lot of people don’t realize; there is no food that contains all the micronutrients like a multivitamin does. There’s no single food that contains all of these micronutrients at these levels. So it’s no wonder that most multivitamins have all these competitions to them.

So when you're talking about a food like grass-fed yogurt, or really anything, you’ll find higher amounts of specific micronutrients. You mentioned K2 in there; that K2, that food knows to pair that K2 with the calcium because it needs to; K2s job is to move the calcium out of the arteries and into the bones where it’s needed. But in most supplements, the formulators don’t even put K1 in there, they certainly don’t put K2 in there.

Mira Calton: {laughs}

Jayson Calton: They haven’t thought about it. We’re in an infancy in micronutrient and supplemental science in general. So that food is designed, however you want to think about that, so much better than supplementation. And yes, sometimes food will have certain competitions in it. Things like cod liver oil, you know cod liver oil has got a lot of vitamin A, but it’s also got a lot of vitamin D. And those two are natural competitors, but nature uses these competitors to make it so you don’t get a toxic effect that can sometimes happen with certain fat soluble vitamins being taken in too high of quantities. So nature uses the competitions to balance. But formulation, or supplement formulation, these competitions can then work against us.

So yeah, they do exist in nature, but the majority of food is just made in such a way that they harmonize perfectly, and you can imagine why. We’ve been eating these things, and nature knows a lot more than we do about how the micronutrients work.

Mira Calton: However, in today’s day and age, because there’s so much more stripped, we want to make sure that you’re getting enough. So the whole thing about, why would I need a supplement rather than eating more food? Well the food has those innate competitions. So if you're goal is to fill in those gaps, you can’t necessarily fill in those gaps when the food still has the competition. So what we look at is adding it on top in a way that you could actually absorb it, so that we’re filling in all those little holes just to make sure that you’re health can be achieved.

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10. Top 5 micronutrient deficiencies [37:49]

Diane Sanfilippo: I love it. So we have a question here from R. Bateson; that’s the Instagram handle. “What are your top 5 micronutrients that you would say everyone is missing out on, and what do they do for us to make us awesome,” which is what {laughs} the question is. “If we are getting them.” So I know that’s a really hard one for you guys to narrow it down, but if you had to just; at least they didn’t say 3, they said top 5.

Jayson Calton: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: So what would you call out as your top 5 micronutrients? I’m going to guess vitamin C has to be in there, maybe?

Mira Calton: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: You tell me.

Mira Calton: We’ll put it in there for that reason. Ok, I actually would probably not have said vitamin C otherwise, because it’s not very deficient in a lot of diets, so I tend to look at which ones we’re mostly deficient in.

Diane Sanfilippo: Alright, alright, so make it a fair game. Your top 5.

Mira Calton: Ok, top 5. Which one do you want to chose? Magnesium I guess. Magnesium is extremely deficient; it has so many functions in the body. And we’re all really cranky without it. We can’t go to the bathroom properly, we don’t sleep well. Everything goes wrong when your magnesium is low. You get cramps, you get horrible PMS, so I’m just going to do that.

Jayson Calton: So if she’s going to do magnesium, them I’m going to have to correlate that with calcium. Because those two balance each other out. And it’s interesting, because calcium and magnesium balance each other in more than one way. They balance each other when it comes to constipation; so too much calcium can make you constipated, where as magnesium can balance that; or if you have too much magnesium and not enough calcium, then you can go the other way with loose stools. So those two are really important in that way. Also magnesium and calcium deficiencies have been shown to be the causation of cravings for sugar and for salt. So those two, and we’re dealing a lot with that, people have all kinds of cravings these days. And then not to mention, calcium is also imperative for, like we mentioned before, muscle contraction and bone formation, and a host of other things. So calcium has to be in there too.

Mira Calton: Popular micronutrients; I think E is really cool. I know its such not a cool thing to say.

Diane Sanfilippo: Well, it’s got to be your top 5 that we’re missing; so if we’ve got those two then…

Mira Calton: I think everyone is missing E because of the fact that E is not usually put properly into multivitamins.

Jayson Calton: Or is calcium and magnesium.

Mira Calton: Or supplements. Yeah. So I would say E, because no one is really getting all 8 forms, and most of the studies are showing now that the 4 forms that nobody else is putting in their multivitamins, the tocotrienols, they’re really, really fascinating. And they’re being shown; nobody ever talks about vitamin E for bone formation, but one of the tocotrienols is really amazing in making sure that your bone formulates properly, and that it can’t degrade. So I think that’s one that we’re going to start to see some really interesting research out of in the next period, because no one was actually looking at them at all.

Jayson Calton: Tell them what the 8 forms are.

Mira Calton: Oh. So there are 8 forms {laughs}.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing}

Mira Calton: There’s alpha, beta, gamma, delta of both the tocopherol family and the tocotrienol family. And unfortunately, most multivitamins put Dl-alpha tocopherol, which is really bad.

Jayson Calton: Synthetic.

Mira Calton: That’s the synthetic one singular form of one part of the family. And that’s actually been shown, in recent studies, to cause cancer. So at least if you’re going to, you want a D not a Dl; Dl would mean synthetic. So you want a D- if you’re looking on your label, and then you should be able to see both the tocotrienols and the tocopherols in there, because that will really make sure you’re getting all of the benefits.

Diane Sanfilippo: Alright, you have two more you can list out as your favorites that you think we’re missing.

Jayson Calton: It’s hard, it’s hard. I need more than top 5!

Mira Calton: {laughs}

Jayson Calton: Let’s talk a little bit about, ugh.

Mira Calton: K2, K2!

Jayson Calton: Alright, Mira mentioned it, so we’ll talk about K2.

Mira Calton: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Jayson Calton: So K2, it really is kind of the X factor. There’s two forms of K, right? K1 and K2. We call it vitamin K because the word coagulation spelled with a K, which is a German derivative was what they found this vitamin did; it coagulated the blood. But that was vitamin K1. Now vitamin K2 we find in a lot of great grass-fed meats or dairy; food like what we were talking about with the yogurt. We also find it in fermented foods, like natto, and one of the best sources for Americans to get K2 is Gouda cheese. Specifically Gouda because it’s the bacteria that makes the Gouda cheese that makes the vitamin K2.

Now, our body’s internal system in the gut can make vitamin K2; but in recent research, we’re starting to realize that we’re not making as much as we used to, and that stands to reason with all the gut issues that we’re facing and the microbiome. There’s going to be a lot of research coming out about that. K2 is important, and I mentioned it before, because it’s the director. Without K2, the body doesn’t know what to do with calcium. It just sits there in the arteries, and can calcify. And this is really where the scare with calcium has come in. People are like, you don’t want dairy, you don’t want to take too much calcium because it can calcify in the arteries. That will not happen if K2 is available and is there to tell it to go into the bone. So it is very, very important. It’s got to be in the top 5 list.

Mira Calton: Well, then let’s just do D.

Jayson Calton: yeah.

Mira Calton: Because obviously D is, you know, D is amazing. One of the cool things that people don’t know about D; you start to see D is being supplemented and put into a lot of products these days because the people are so vitamin D deficient. In fact ,vitamin D deficiency causes rickets, and of course everyone thought that rickets is just like scurvy, and that’s so far in the past not happening anymore. Well there’s a new epidemic of rickets in the UK, because of the fact that vitamin D is so deficient. So they’re starting to add it into a whole lot of products. The problem being that they’re adding in vitamin D2, and in studies, vitamin D2 has actually been shown to lower vitamin D levels. D3 is really what you want to be taking. It’s the form you’re going to get out of all the great food you're eating, and that’s really what you want to have.

Jayson Calton: That’s a really, really important point. Because a lot of times people will say, well I’m probably not taking D2. But that’s a lot of times what they’ll add to dairy products.

Mira Calton: Yeah.

Jayson Calton: And yeah, the research did show that at the very beginning, within the first few days, we saw an increase in vitamin D levels in the blood. But over a period of time, after about a week or two, we actually saw lower vitamin D levels than they started out, when you’re supplementing with the vitamin D2.

Mira Calton: Make sure to check your dairy products.

Jayson Calton: Yeah. Not a good long term thing; you definitely want D3. And just a little fun fact; 96% of Americans, according to the USDA statistics, are deficient in vitamin D.

Mira Calton: Oh wait, I want to do a fun fact then!

Jayson Calton: Alright you do a fun fact.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing}

Mira Calton: I’ll do a fun fact. Women who are vitamin D deficient are on average 17 pounds heavier.

Diane Sanfilippo: So interesting.

Mira Calton: Just get D deficient ladies. Get sufficient I mean.

Jayson Calton: {laughs} Don’t get deficient.

Mira Calton: Don’t get D deficient, get sufficient.

Diane Sanfilippo: Just so you guys know, who are listening, this is like they’re normal personalities. I know Mira sounds really excited to talk about this stuff; that’s her normal personality. I’m just clarifying that for anyone who’s like, she can’t really be like that. This is just normal; she’s very excited and happy about micronutrients. {laughs}

Mira Calton: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: I love it. It’s so adorable. You guys crack me up, because Jayson is like, he has his very, I don’t know, calm, doctory demeanor.

Mira Calton: He gets giddy about micronutrients.

11. Plant versus animal sources of nutrients [45:23]

Diane Sanfilippo: I know he does, I can hear it. I love it. Ok, this isn’t a question that somebody asked but I think it’s a good topic because you just started talking about it, and we get questions about this all the time, and you started touching on it with talking about your vegan client that you were working with. We get questions and confusion from people about plant versus animal sources of nutrients. So you mentioned non-heme iron being the main source of supplementation, where as heme iron is probably more bioavailable to us. Beta carotene versus retinol; K1/K2; omega-3 from plants versus from animals. Can you explain a little bit more about why we cannot really get what we think we’re getting from some of the plant sources? Which, again that’s like the beta carotene, the non-heme iron versus the heme. What is it about these different forms of nutrients that makes it so that they really are not the same to us as humans?

Jayson Calton: Yeah. First of all, again a great discussion. And see, you people have been discussing this, and they didn’t even know they were talking about micronutrient stuff. So, this is all falling in our wheelhouse. Let’s talk about omega-3 first, because I think omega-3 is that supplement that so many people are being told to take, and this is really confusing. You go to the store, you look at omega-3 oils, and you see something like a flaxseed oil, and you think to yourself, well that’s great! This is high in omega-3s! And so that’s what I’m going to take, not necessarily even thinking that it’s from a plant source or an animal source. Or maybe some people are if they are vegan, they are saying, ok I can get this essential micronutrient in, see I don’t have to eat the meat. So what’s wrong with it, or what’s right with it?

So you’ve got AA, which is your omega-3. What happens in the body is you get an elongation that takes place. So there’s 3 forms of omega-3 let’s start there. You have your regular omega-3, AA, you have something called EPA, and you have something called DHA. So probably most people have heard of these different forms. Plant forms of omega-3 do not contain EPA or DHA. They just don’t. Now, the argument on the plant side is, don’t worry about it because the body has the innate ability to elongate this fat out to EPA, and then further elongate it into DHA, and that’s the order that it goes. It elongates out EPA to DHA. There are some circumstances where DHA can circle back around to EPA, but it’s very rare.

That’s why we always recommend if you’re taking, even a fish oil, or a krill oil, or an animal based omega-3, you want to find one that either completely separates the EPA and DHA out so you can absorb both, because, again as you might imagine they are competitors. Or, find one with higher levels of EPA, because your body will eventually elongate that out to DHA.

Mira Calton: Basically, when it’s in a plant source, like the beta carotene versus the fat, the A soluble vitamin, the fat soluble A vitamin that’s in meat, it just doesn’t convert as well. So basically with as this really long conversion process to make it into the one that’s already available in the meat. So it’s 21 to 1 for example from beta carotene to A. So the problem with that is; imagine how much you would have to eat of those darn carrots to get the same amount that you would just get in the little bit of something that has the vitamin A.

Diane Sanfilippo: Same thing, so what Jayson was talking about was kind of comparing something like flax or chia based omega-3 to a fish based omega-3; it’s not that it doesn’t have omega-3, it has omega-3, but the type of omega-3 in the plant based forms have to go through this conversion process that, for a lot of different reasons we’re just not that efficient at.

Mira Calton: Exactly.

Diane Sanfilippo: Like you just said Mira, for the vitamin A forms, it’s for every 21 units we’re getting 1 in the useable form. So in the omega-3, is that the number you were looking for, Jayson, the omega-3 conversion?

Jayson Calton: Yeah, and for whatever reason, the actual conversion is 5-10% efficiency rate to the EPA, and 2-5% efficiency rate conversion to the DHA. So you can see you’d have to take a lot of that plant based omega-3 to get any of the EPA and DHA benefit.

Mira Calton: So when somebody says take a teaspoon of omega-3, and they say I’m taking a teaspoon of flax, it’s not the same thing as taking a teaspoon of fish oil. It drives us absolutely insane when we’re watching a study, like news reporters. We actually did a thing on this last year; there was this big news report of how vitamin A, or beta carotene, or vitamin A was really good for something. It was actually good at fighting the cancer, the effects from the sun to give people skin cancer. And in the report, they said, so this is really great news, you just have to eat your carrots and sweet potatoes. And I was like, no!

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} How about your liver and your egg yolks!

Jayson Calton: Yeah, that’s not vitamin A. That’s preform vitamin A.

Mira Calton: Yeah, I’m glad you brought it up because again, it’s the form that you’re taking, and understanding that not all forms perform the same in your body.

Diane Sanfilippo: And I just want to throw one thing in there, because there are some people listening who; we have plenty of listeners who we’ve definitely talked them off the freaked out place, this ledge they were on about sardines that they were scared to eat them, or any kind of fish that they’ve been freaked out about. We’ve gotten tons of people; if nothing else, Liz and I will go down in podcasting history for getting people to eat sardines, or take some kind of, you know, cod liver oil, or something like that.

But, there are people who are legitimately allergic to this stuff, and there are people who are also allergic to fish so severely that they can’t even do the fat, because we know typically the allergies are to proteins. But algae seems to be a form of non seafood based omega-3 that does contain some EPA and/or DHA, and so I don’t know if there’s any data that you guys have on that specifically, but that’s just one I want to mention to people really only if you have an allergy, and that’s the reason you can’t do fish. Eating fish or taking a super high quality cod liver oil. I know Liz has mentioned an extra virgin one recently that she’s been liking, but is there something more that you have to say about that or is that kind of…

Jayson Calton: No, I think that’s a really great point. And this is a relatively new kind of occurrence with the omega-3 coming from algae, and it actually has really good absorption levels.

Mira Calton: Yeah.

Jayson Calton: And again, coming from the fact that there is higher amounts of the EPA over DHA, if you look at the ratio of EPA to DHA in the algae, it’s a far better ratio than what you’ll find in some of the fishes, which tend to be closer to 1:1. And the other interesting thing is, people are always thinking, algae, algae, that’s a vegan source of it. And I guess it theoretically is, but I was reading a research paper the other day where algae is considered by some scientists to actually be an animal. The way that it works, it’s kind of like, let’s just keep calling it plant.

Mira Calton: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing} Yes, let’s call it a plant.

Jayson Calton: But at the end of the day, it may fall into the realm of that gray area.

Diane Sanfilippo: Right. Well, and I think that could be, the fact that it does have this form of omega-3 might be a hint that it’s slightly more of an animal than a plant, it just looks more like a plant. It’s almost like a tomato; looks like a vegetable, but it’s really a fruit. I don’t know. I’m just making this up.

Jayson Calton: {laughs} Yeah! That is the best source for a vegan vegetarian, if you feel comfortable with that source, definitely do algae.

Mira Calton: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: I just wanted to throw that out there for people, because we do definitely have a broad range of listeners and we don’t want to alienate anyone.

Mira Calton: No, and in the Micronutrient Miracle, we actually talk about the fact that we had vegetarians go through the program, obviously had a lot of paleo people go through the program. We’ve got low-carb/ketogenic dieters go through the program. So that’s one thing we were really sensitive to when writing the book; we always gave a vegetarian or vegan alternative. Not our personal choice, but diet is a personal thing and who am I to say what somebody else should be believing in.

12. The micronutrient perspective [53:33]

Diane Sanfilippo: So, we know that your platform; at least I’m going to make this statement {laughs} and you can alter it.

Mira Calton: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: Your platform is very much like, because you guys are so steeped in this micronutrient world, any health challenge or struggle, really any issue that people might come to you with, your first line of defense is always to get the body to a place where it’s sufficient micronutrients; because even something like adrenal fatigue, thyroid health, we have questions about all these different specific health issues, you guys always have the foundational believe that if you’re giving your body the fuel it needs in the form of micronutrients. I mean, people will talk about macros all day, right; protein, carbs, and fat. And it’s like, it’s kind of to the point where it’s not really a relevant. It’s really about getting yourself the nutrition, the vitamins and minerals that you need, so that in the event of any kind of stressful scenario whatever it is, disease-wise, your body can handle it.

Just tell me if this sounds right to you, that this is really what you believe. Because if you look at two different people dealing with the same insults, for example, two different people in a stressful situation and one physical body, we know there’s a mental health aspect to all of this stuff, right. But a physical person dealing with the same issue as somebody else who is sufficient in micronutrients versus insufficient, you guys are like, alright this person is going to have a way better shot and will probably be doing way better if their body has all those vitamins and minerals to carry out the functions of a normal balanced body. Is this your; is this my summary sounding accurate to you? {laughs}

Mira Calton: {laughs} Yes.

Jayson Calton: It’s perfect.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing} It was wordy.

Jayson Calton: In fact, you should travel around and say exactly that.

Mira Calton: I could sit in my seat.

Jayson Calton: You made it so simple for people. It’s exactly what we’re saying. That is absolutely true; we approach everything from the micronutrient perspective first; that’s kind of our, I guess it’s a unique way of looking at things, and it’s because we just realize how powerful they are, and when we look and you dig deep into the research, and we’re not talking about nutritional research, we’re just talking about research on stress in general from psychologists, and they’re really looking at what the causation is.

I mean, there was a study I think; did you mention that study? They actually took two groups of people, made one sufficient in the Bs and the Cs, and the other one wasn’t, and they literally tried to rattle them. They tried to stress them out.

Diane Sanfilippo: Oh yeah, yeah.

Jayson Calton: And the researchers were like, we can’t even stress them out!

Mira Calton: {laughs}

Jayson Calton: We can’t even get them to that position. So, the science is there, the research is there, and you’re right, we’re finally getting to that point in nutrition where we’re finally getting past all the super…

Mira Calton: In-fighting.

Jayson Calton: yeah, the in-fighting about what kind of diet we should be doing, what kind of carbs, fats, and proteins, and we’re getting down to the nitty gritty about what really makes a difference. And what we’re really understanding is all food delivers two things; calories and micronutrients. We need the calories for our energy, and we need the micronutrients to create that environment in the body, like you said, that will allow the body to do what it’s supposed to do.

Mira Calton: Yeah, if you think about a math equation. For example; osteoporosis, a lack of calcium plus a lack magnesium plus a lack of K2 plus a lack of D equals osteoporosis. Now, on the other hand, hypertension equals calcium, plus magnesium, plus potassium. So basically, it’s just a plugging in game. Whatever your specific micronutrients become deficient in your life lead to very different health conditions. It used to be that just C lead to scurvy, and D lead to rickets, and it was really obvious what was wrong with you because it was a single micronutrient deficiency. But today our lifestyle, these lifestyle diseases. The cancer, the diabetes, the high blood pressure, the heart disease, all these things have those math equations of which specific micronutrients are deficient. Thyroid problems, adrenal fatigue. And if you just start looking at those; that’s why it’s the first thing we do in the new book, is ask you to look at your condition, and then focus for the rest of the book on those specific micronutrients.

It’s very scientific, and it’s really fun for us to play this game with people, because I can ask somebody do you eat this, do you eat this. We can ask a whole bunch of questions, and then Jayson and I can sit here and be like, oh I bet they have this condition. You can play that game, you know what they’re going to be deficient in.

Liz Wolfe: We are thrilled to have Paleo Treats back on our sponsor roster. We love their treats, from the Mustang bar to the Bandito and everything in between. They have been serving the paleo community since 2009, and were recently recognized by FedEx as one of the top 10 small business in America. Which of course, speaks to how much paleo and healthy eating is growing, but it also speaks to how passionate our friends Nick and Lee and the Paleo Treats team are about what they do. Use the code BALANCEDBITES one word, no space at http://www.paleotreats.com/ for 10% off.

13. Micronutrient multivitamin Nutreince [58:45]

Diane Sanfilippo: I love it. So, we had a ton of questions, so for those of you listening who submitted more specific health concerns, and how do micronutrients relate to it, that’s the overarching theme is that they always relate to it, because it’s about supporting your body’s functions from the ground up. I think really getting into the book, Micronutrient Miracle, that’s where you’ll be able to see, as Mira and Jayson have laid out, different conditions and what the nutrients are that you really need to be focusing on and how to do that through nutrition changes, lifestyle changes, etc., because I have so many more questions here that we will not have time to answer all of them.

Mira Calton: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: Obviously, you guys, you have a micronutrient multivitamin supplement that you developed called Nutreince, and do you want to tell people a little bit about how and why you developed it? Because I’ve been taking it now for a couple of weeks. I’m notoriously terrible at taking supplements.

Mira Calton: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: But I wanted to recommit myself, because I do believe in it. I just do; I believe in it. Either you guys are just really convincing, or whatever it is, I think it’s important that we are not burying our heads in the sand about whether or not we need the nutrition. It’s just, for some of us, it’s easier to remember to take things than others.

Mira Calton: {laughs}

Jayson Calton: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: But why don’t you talk about the micronutrients and; sorry, I keep saying that, the multivitamin that you have, and just give people a little bit of information about that. Because I know we did have a lot of questions about the quality of different supplements being important, and all that good stuff.

Jayson Calton: Sure. First, we did not start off to create a multivitamin.

Mira Calton: {laughs}

Jayson Calton: A lot of times; and it’s very hard, as an author, and you know, if you come out there and say, yeah micronutrients are so important, and by the way we have a multivitamin. So people will be like, oh you just want to sell your multivitamin. And you know, yeah, I’d be very happy to sell my multivitamin. But it didn’t come in that order. We didn’t have a multivitamin and then we wrote a book; we were able to reverse Mira’s advanced osteoporosis, and in that process we learned that any multivitamin we could find out there wasn’t going to fall into what we call our ABCs of optimal supplementation. It wasn’t going to get around the problems with absorption; it wasn’t going to get around the problems with the beneficial quantities and the forms that those micronutrients those multivitamins were using. And it certainly didn’t address micronutrient competition and synergy.

So we literally were stuck. We had to go to the drawing board, and we had to try to develop something. And we worked at it for several years. And I don’t know if anybody has ever tried to put out any kind of a product or supplement, but it is not an inexpensive thing, and there’s a big risk as to whether or not anybody is going to even want to take it. So we started very small with Nutreince. We started to create small runs of it, and we gave it to our private clients, and started to use it ourselves, and people who took it just saw such dramatic results so quickly, sometimes within the first few days, and we said, well we’re really onto something here. Obviously we know that creating, or separating the competitive micronutrients out was something really important, and that’s what helped Mira the most. So we went to the US government, and we applied for a patent on that technology, called it anticompetition technology, and after 6 years of them researching it, and digging into it, and answering questions about it, they finally granted us that patent.

Mira Calton: So here’s the fun thing about it; {laughs}.

Jayson Calton: Ok. {laughs} That’s the boring stuff.

Mira Calton: No; no, no, no, I love when you. I just want people to know; it’s a drink. So it tastes fantastic; there are 4 different boxes and different variety of flavors so you can pick something you enjoy taking.

Diane Sanfilippo: Jayson got all the, you know, sciencey stuff and then Mira’s like, I’m going to make it taste really good. {laughs}

Jayson Calton: {laughs} Yeah!

Mira Calton: {laughs} Exactly!

Jayson Calton: She did! I was like, we don’t even need flavor in this.

Diane Sanfilippo: Well, that’s Jayson! You and I are right in the same spot. I do the unflavored; I’m good with it.

Mira Calton: I tried some of them; I was like, hell no. I am not doing this for the rest of my life. So literally, we have all these different flavors you can make now, and then I also, we put them into protein shakes, you can make smoothies. I know you’ve been making some fun smoothies I’ve been seeing on Instagram.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yes.

Mira Calton: So it’s great. It’s two packets, so the micronutrients in the a.m. are completely different than the micronutrients in the p.m., so we got rid of the competition problem. And it’s really absorbable, because you pour the powder into liquid, into water, and you get a very absorbable beverage. So we got rid of all of the problems that we had seen, and basically, it’s delicious and it works. It has all the forms that we wanted, too. We could not find anybody; if you look at your products right now, you’re not going to find 600 mg of calcium; you're not going to find 400 mg of magnesium. They’re really big, they’re really bulky, they wouldn’t fit into a pill, so that’s another reason that you’re really going to get everything that we desire in this product. And we are small enough that we get to go back to manufacturing any time a new study comes out and put in a better form or a more upgraded formulation, and we’ve done that twice or three times already, because we take it ourselves, and we want to be healthy.

Jayson Calton: Yeah, and I’m sure people listening now know about the folate issue, and the 5MTHF version of folate; that’s something that we’ve updated with Nutreince, so we have 400 mcg of the 5MTHF in there. We also have both forms of vitamin K2; we didn’t mention there’s MK4 and MK7. Most supplements, if they include it at all, only include one form and we have both. We have all 8 forms of vitamin E, which Mira mentioned earlier, but again you’re never going to find a multi with all 8 forms.

Mira Calton: Yeah.

Jayson Calton: So, it’s really our baby. It’s kind of an evolution of our work, and we’re really proud of it. So thank you; thank you for mentioning it, and thank you for taking it.

Diane Sanfilippo: I think that that’s, just the fact that you guys developed it for yourselves, I can {laughs} speak for them, they take it, they walk the talk. It’s something that they find obviously critical and valuable to everyday life, so I’m impressed by the development of the supplement, and I think that of all the supplements out there, I think our listeners know, I really don’t take a lot of things, and if you look at anything I might take every day, right now this is the only thing I take every day besides eating food. Hopefully I’ll be able to maintain it, just habit-wise. That’s part of it, is getting it to be part of my everyday life and kind of creating those habits, so I think that’s a really important thing.

But we get a lot of people who ask questions about digestive issues, and that’s the one thing I’d like to mention as well is that because it’s a liquid form, it’s something that I feel really comfortable recommending to people, because not only will you not have an issue digesting and absorbing it, but you won’t pass a lot of it through, like what Mira mentioned about the excess B vitamins. I definitely had that experience in that past with a multi that I took years ago from a practitioner that was in capsule form, and it was like you tear open the pack of like 6 pills, which I also hate swallowing all those pills, but that’s one really important element there. I think a lot of people who have issues with digestion, it’s important to know that that’s the way you can take it.

I do find; I remember we talked about this really early on, I don’t remember if you had the natural when we first met.

Mira Calton: Nope.

Jayson Calton: No, we didn’t. We started with a flavored one.

Diane Sanfilippo: Ok, so I was like. I remember when we met, you had Nutreince, it was all sweetened with stevia, and I don’t have a problem with that as a type of sweetener for folks. I personally don’t care for it; not because I have a moral obligation; because my palate does not like it. I find it off-putting to my palate. So I remember saying to you guys, not only did I not like stevia, but I was like I think folks in the paleo community would prefer something unsweetened and unflavored. And frankly, the recent formulation s even more palatable, it seems milder, and less, that sounds weird, less vitaminy. I’m able to drink it in about 5 ounces of water no problem without flavoring. It doesn’t taste strange to me at all.

Mira Calton: Yeah, we’ve been working really hard on tasting different micronutrients to see which ones will make it almost clear, like water taste, and you really can, and there’s so many different options out there for formulators, that you really can sort of get geeky in a lab and try things and drink a lot of odd things during the day. But it’s amazing how much you’re able to play with those types of things. And we did it because of people like you. I think you mentioned it, and then we went and made the natural for you.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Jayson Calton: Yeah, I think you scared us, actually.

Mira Calton: {laughs}

Jayson Calton: I was like, oh my god, we have to do something for the paleo community! So we were talking about the Nutreince natural, which has no sweeteners and no flavors.

Mira Calton: Right.

Jayson Calton: It is literally micronutrients. That’s it.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Jayson Calton: And when we first went to the formulators on us, they literally laughed at us. They were like, there is no way you’re going to make this palatable. It’s going to look like mud, it’s going to taste horrible. And we’ve been working on it; like Mira said, we’ve continued to reformulate it. And it’s pretty good now. In fact, it really doesn’t bother me at all.

Diane Sanfilippo: No, I have no issues with it taste wise whatsoever. And I love that, you know, I don’t have a lot of friends that I can off the cuff be totally brutally honest with and they do something with that information.

Mira Calton: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: I’m brutally honest, and if you ever want a flavor sampler over here; I don’t hear that well, but I taste really well {laughs}.

Jayson Calton: {laughs}

Mira Calton: Do you have an allergy to ragweed?

Diane Sanfilippo: I don’t know. Would that make me allergic …

Mira Calton: People with an allergy to ragweed taste stevia like metal.

Diane Sanfilippo: I don’t know if I taste it like metal. But if it’s at all related to parsley; I can’t stand parsley.

Mira Calton: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing} Parsley is the devil to me. So, I’m just telling people honestly, I drink the natural either in some water, it does have a lightish yellow orange color to it; like egg yolk color almost, not texture, just totally water texture. And I really don’t taste it. Or I mix it with some kind of shake or something like, and yeah, I’m finding that it’s totally palatable, no problem at all. Awesome. I’m really excited; I think this is awesome that you guys are finally getting a little bit more of your protocol and having the details for different folks in different plans in the book that people can go through and read other people’s stories. I know that was a really important part of this book for you, to share people’s stories. Anything else you want to tell people about the release of the book, which I guess when this episode initially airs, the book technically releases just a few days later. You have a special?

Mira Calton: I do!

14. Prerelease promotion of Micronutrient Miracle [1:09:36]

Diane Sanfilippo: Prerelease promotion right?

Mira Calton: Totally. And we wanted people to be able to not have excuses why they couldn’t get healthy. A lot of people say, you know, high quality food is too expensive. Or it’s going to be too many changes, and I don’t know where to find all these things that I need. So we went to these companies, and we were like, you guys are great companies that we love, and we want you guys to give back to people. We want to make it easy for people start a program and get their health supported. And we asked these companies to give of their selves; give of their products to people who bought the book. We were not only surprised, we were floored. We were absolutely floored by how generous some of these companies were.

So the cool deal here is, if you buy a copy of the Micronutrient Miracle, and you send us the receipt before August 31st at midnight eastern time, you get $200 in same as cash gift certificates to go and spend at some of our favorite places. And they’re going to deliver to you those groceries to your house, so you get, and I know your people definitely know these companies.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Yeah.

Mira Calton: Like $50 at US Wellness Meats. So if you shop at US Wellness Meats, you get a free $50 for buying the book.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, Vital Choice is another one, they’re one of our awesome sponsors. We absolutely love Vital Choice.

Mira Calton: Who doesn’t? {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} It’s awesome.

Mira Calton: It’s where you get your sardines.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yep.

Jayson Calton: And just to kind of make sure everybody understands this. We’re not selling the book. You can go and buy the book anywhere, you can buy it on Amazon, you can buy it at Barnes and Noble; you can buy the hardcover version, or you can buy the kindle version.

Diane Sanfilippo: Oh, somebody did ask me that. I didn’t know if they could do the kindle.

Jayson Calton: Yeah!

Diane Sanfilippo: Oh, cool.

Jayson Calton: $9.99 on Amazon right now.

Mira Calton: The book is only $14.99.

Jayson Calton: Yeah, the book’s $14.99.

Mira Calton: Which is insane!

Jayson Calton: We should also mention Kasandrinos.

Mira Calton: Yeah.

Jayson Calton: Because he’s giving $25 towards either their amazing organic olive oil or their new soaps and also their spices. So that’s amazing.

Mira Calton: Wild Things seafood and steaks; another place that has great seafood and great quality meats. They’re doing $50.

Jayson Calton: $50 same as cash gift certificate, and lastly Thrive Market, which is kind of like the discounted Whole Foods online, is giving a 2 month membership and $20. Is that right?

Mira Calton: Yep.

Jayson Calton: Or $30>

Mira Calton: $20 and a 2 month membership.

Jayson Calton: $20 and a 2 month membership. So you can have whatever you want delivered there. And they’ve got great, nontoxic home goods. They have good toothpaste, deodorant, laundry stuff.

Mira Calton: Yeah.

Jayson Calton: So you get anything you want there. This is, again, same as cash.

Mira Calton: Never been done.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} I know, you guys are crazy. I remember when Rich Food, Poor Food released and you did a whole bunch of coupons. It’s such a genius idea because it’s a way to break down the barriers, as you said Mira. It can be cost prohibitive, but we all want people to get started. We don’t want people to not have a way to get this good food into their homes and try something new and have their best chance at making the plan work.

I explained this; if you’re on my emailing list, you got an email from me a couple of weeks ago, now, by the time this airs, explaining why these companies would do something like that. Why would a company give away $50 or $25 worth of product for nothing? This is real, there’s not a gimmick here. But if you think about the benefit to that company of introducing themselves to you, it’s their way of extending a handshake and saying, hey, get to know us! They want to put out that good will because they believe in what Mira and Jayson are doing, they believe in this whole real food paleo movement. They’re obviously a huge part of it, because the products that they sell are totally aligned.

We’re a small community compared to the public at large who’s buying Kraft and Kellogg’s. You know what I mean? For them to say, here’s a gift, come get to know our company, not only because we want to support this book because they know it’s so important for people to learn this information, but it’s their way of saying, ok you haven’t had a chance to try the products before, we know you can’t walk into your local grocery store to try them, we want to give you the chance to try them. I think it’s a really great investment on their part from a marketing standpoint, just from a goodwill standpoint. So I think it’s awesome.

If you guys are listening and you’re like, I don’t know if I should do it, just, I mean, $10-14 to buy the book and send the receipt in! I’m not kidding you, I was thinking on our walk the other day, I was walking the dog and I was like, should we be buying that? I’m like, I think I should probably buy it! {laughs} Tell my parents to buy a copy so they can get all these coupons. It’s kind of ridiculous.

Mira Calton: My mom bought a copy; my sisters have all bought a copy. I’m not kidding! I can’t give them the gift certificates.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.

Mira Calton: It doesn’t even go through us; we’re not handing them out. So it’s automatic.

Diane Sanfilippo: Right. It’s awesome. I’m really impressed, and I’m excited for you guys. So we’ll have links for where you can click to get all that information because you do want to just click; hop over to BalancedBites.com, we’ll have the episode for this show, I think it’s episode 203, but just look for the episode on the website and then I’ll have a link for you. I might be able to put a link somewhere else on the website, but I’m not sure, I think I’ll have the new website up by then, so just click on the episode listing and you’ll be able to click and make sure you have the right information and all the details to send in your receipt and all that and get the awesome gift certificates.

Thank you guys so much for taking, it’s been over an hour, but I’m sure we could have talked for 3.

Mira Calton: I could just sit here with you!

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, we could have talked for 3 hours, I’m sure, I had a lot more questions from folks. But maybe we’ll be able to bring you back in in a few weeks or something when everything calms down from the flurry of the release of the book, but I’m really psyched for you guys, so congratulations on the new book.

Jayson Calton/Mira Calton: Thank you so much!

Jayson Calton: It’s been so much fun.

Mira Calton: And thank you so much for sharing this information with your tribe; we really, really, really appreciate it.

Diane Sanfilippo: So CaltonNutrition.com is the main website for the Calton’s in the future, but I will definitely get you guys all the details over at BalancedBites.com from this episode for the special release of their book and all that good stuff that you can get. That’s it for this week. You can find me, Diane, at http://dianesanfilippo.com. Don’t forget, you can find Liz at http://realfoodliz.com/. Make sure you join our email lists for free goodies and updates you don’t find anywhere else on our websites or even on the podcast or Facebook or Instagram. While you’re on the internet leave us an iTunes review. We’ll see you next week.