Podcast Episode #210: Paleo Perfectionism, Diane’s Wedding, Gelatin Brands, and Vitiligo

Topics:
1. What’s new for you from Diane & Liz [1:51] 2. Something new that I’m into: Poached eggs and coffee drinks [10:08] 3. Details on Diane’s wedding [14:31] 4. Stress less about paleo perfectionism [24:11] 5. Help with vitiligo [36:55] 6. Vital Proteins versus Great Lakes collagen peptides [44:48] 7. #Treatyoself: Kyra’s Bake Shop and brioche French toast [48:20] [smart_track_player url=”http://traffic.libsyn.com/balancedbites/21020final.mp3″ title=”#210: Paleo Perfectionism, Diane's Wedding, Gelatin Brands, and Vitiligo ” artist=”Diane Sanfilippo & Liz Wolfe ” color=”00AEEF” social=”true” social_twitter=”true” social_facebook=”true” social_gplus=”true” ]

   

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Balance Bites: Episode #210: Paleo Perfectionism, Diane's Wedding, Gelatin Brands, and Vitiligo

You’re listening to the Balanced Bites podcast episode 210.

Welcome to the Balanced Bites podcast with Diane Sanfilippo and Liz Wolfe. Diane is a certified nutrition consultant, and the New York Times bestselling author of Practical Paleo, The 21-Day Sugar Detox, and co-author of Mediterranean Paleo Cooking. Liz is a nutritional therapy practitioner, and the best-selling author of Eat the Yolks and The Purely Primal Skincare Guide. Together, Diane and Liz answer your questions, interview leading health and wellness experts, and share their take on modern paleo living with their friendly and balanced approach. Remember our disclaimer: The materials and content within this podcast are intended as general information only, and are not to be considered a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.

Liz Wolfe: Hey everyone! It’s me, Liz. I’m here with the freshly married, Diane Sanfilippo!

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Hey!

Liz Wolfe: Hey friend. Congratulations.

Diane Sanfilippo: Thank you.

Liz Wolfe: Let’s have a word from our sponsors.

Liz Wolfe: Our podcast sponsorship today comes from Vital Choice, an online purveyor of the world’s best wild seafood delivered right to your door; because juggling a busy life doesn’t mean you should have to forgo healthy meals. At vitalchoice.com, you’ll find wild Alaskan salmon, halibut, tuna, sable fish, and cod, as well as prawns, crab, and scallops. You’ll also find grass-fed organic Wagyu beef, free range heritage chicken, fresh frozen organic berries, and dark organic chocolates. Make a vital choice by eating the highest quality food you can. Vital Choice; come home to real food.

1. What’s new for you from Diane & Liz [1:51]

Liz Wolfe: Alright. We’re back. Diane; what’s new with you? {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: I know the whole world has been watching the hashtag #docandflipsgetmarried.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} I was like I don’t think anyone is going to get this except the gym. Yeah, those are.

Liz Wolfe: I don’t even get it, by the way.

Diane Sanfilippo: it’s just our nicknames. Yeah, just our nicknames at the gym. Doc and Flips. I think when I first started there at Brazen, there was at least one other Diane, so they just, I don’t know, someone started calling me flips. Sometimes they call me flippers. My mom is Ms. Flips or Mama Flips. {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: That’s cute.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. So, and actually they call me that so much that I think some people didn’t actually know my name, so it was pretty funny. Um, yeah. So, that’s it. We got married. I’ll wait to get into some details because I think we have a question about.

Liz Wolfe: Oh yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: The wedding, and I don’t know what other updates I have. We’ve got the 21-Day Sugar Detox coaches program is reopening for enrollment for a short period of time soon. We’re putting some of the finishing touches on that program. I was going to release it, and then I decided there was a little bit more I wanted to do for it so we’re adding a little bit of content to it and then we’re going to release that pretty soon. And then, let’s see what else?

{Laughs} basically the wedding pushed a bunch of projects back as well. Turns out you can’t get married and release two big projects at the very same time. Who knew? {laughs} So the new website will probably launch pretty soon. I know I’ve been teasing about that for a little bit, but for people who are on my emailing list, as a celebration of the launch, I’m giving away a Practical Paleo quick and easy eBook that has a whole bunch of quick and easy recipes kind of combined from all different areas of some of my cookbooks, and the blog, and different things like that. So everyone can get those all in one place. And that will be free when we launch the new website, so I’m super excited about that. And that’s pretty much it. What’s new with you my friend?

Liz Wolfe: Well, we have turkeys that you might hear at some point during this podcast, since I just noticed that the door is open. Turkeys walking around gobbling. Other than that, it’s pretty much lots more of the same. Although, not so much because with this baby, she’s changing every single day. It’s something new and I’m just shocked, and it’s hilarious because when she was first born; I was like, oh my god, I’m never going to get anything done. And now I’m laughing at myself because when she was first born she used to take naps, and she’s forgotten what those are, it appears.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: So it’s like not only do I not get to work during nap time, I also am basically chasing her around now. She’s no longer immobile. It’s funny because; well it’s not funny because nobody cares, but whatever. People like to talk about their kids. There was this one time when she was really little and I knew she couldn’t move.

Diane Sanfilippo: Because she’s not really now, by the way. {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: Well, I mean, she’s a giant baby now! Oh my gosh. So I lay her day, just on her back on our bed on the edge of our bed, underneath the fan rotating really slowly.

Diane Sanfilippo: Very smart.

Liz Wolfe: And I was like, she can’t move, and she loves staring at the fan, so I went and took like a 10 minute shower, which was probably the last shower I took. This was months ago.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: And she just lay there and watched the fan the whole time. And now if I leave her; if I look away, she is missing.

Diane Sanfilippo: Wow.

Liz Wolfe: I have no idea where she went. So it’s just; it doesn’t get any easier, it just gets new kinds of hard.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} I appreciate your honesty about it. I really do. Because I think a lot of people; it’s not that people don’t say that it’s hard. I think people either, either they don’t want to talk about it or they complain, and I feel like you’re very matter of fact. Like, this is difficult. This is definitely difficult.

Liz Wolfe: It’s really freaking hard.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: I think that; I’ve been thinking about this, because it’s the most difficult and yet most expanding, incredible, scary thing that I’ve ever done, and it’s many kinds of wonderful. But also there are sometimes where I’m just like; if anything ever hurts this little being and I can’t do anything about it, I will die. And I don’t like that feeling. I really don’t like that feeling. And I feel like, before we decided to; hey, let’s see if we get pregnant! Oh, I’m pregnant. Before we decided to do that, if somebody had explained to me how hard it is, and had been honest about it, feel like we would have been too scared to do it. So that’s why people don’t tell you how gut wrenching it is, because if I had known that, I would have been way too chicken to try it. {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: This is very possible. I’m sure also that some of the people that might be bold enough to say that, because they’re not worried about scaring you, almost forget because our parents, you know what I mean, they would have the wisdom to be able to say; oh yeah, this is how it feels. But they’ve done it for so long that they’re hardened to it, maybe a little bit. You know? It’s not that they’re; they’re always going to be sensitive to it, I’m sure. But they’re so used to it that I don’t know that it would occur to other new parents to say that to someone. I don’t know.

Liz Wolfe: And I could be, I might be the only one that feels this way. I don’t know.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: But there are those moments where I just look at her and I’m like, if I had known how bad this was going to hurt, and how hard this was going to be, this kind of love to feel for something, I definitely wouldn’t have done it, and that’s why I’m glad I didn’t know because I’m so glad I did. If that makes sense.

Diane Sanfilippo: It does.

Liz Wolfe: That’s not regret talking, it’s more if I had known how hard, you could never have made me understand how hard and different this type of love is on top of telling me how hard it is.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: So it’s just one of those things where, I would not go back or change anything, and I’m glad for where I am, but man it is like…

Diane Sanfilippo: Intense.

Liz Wolfe: It’s intense, yeah. That’s exactly; it’s intense. So there you go.

Diane Sanfilippo: Well thank you for sharing that.

Liz Wolfe: Thanks for always listening.

Diane Sanfilippo: It’s very honest, and I really appreciate it. I really do. I think a lot of our listeners are pretty young women; I mean, I think some of them are older and have kids, and some are older and don’t have kids, and I just think a lot of the young women listening will appreciate that insight, as well.

Liz Wolfe: I hope. And we’re trying to infuse some of that in Baby Making and Beyond. It’s hard because you don’t want to; you want to be objective so people can find their own way, because this is not; like pregnancy nutrition, fertility awareness. That type of thing; this is editorializing on being a parent.

Diane Sanfilippo: Mm-hmm.

Liz Wolfe: But I’m trying to sensitively add my experiences and things I wish I knew at the very beginning and stuff like that without making people feel like; this is how you should feel, or this is how you should do it. Because I have no judgment for people who are doing what they’re doing with love, even if they do something differently than the way I’ve chosen to do it. But it’s just one of those things, man; you have to. It’s not just about what you eat to have a healthy pregnancy and have a healthy baby. This whole thing is this emotional, just visceral; there’s so much more to it than just, well how do I get my liver in when I’m having morning sickness.

Diane Sanfilippo: Mm-hmm.

Liz Wolfe: It’s not about that. And I think maybe that’s a little bit of what’s been missing in other pregnancy programs, is just, I want to connect with people on the emotional level with this stuff, because otherwise, why are we even doing it?

Diane Sanfilippo: Agreed. Yeah. I think that’s how people connect and why they want to learn from you, so I think that matters.

Liz Wolfe: Well shucks.

2. Something new that I’m into: Poached eggs and coffee drinks [10:08]

Liz Wolfe: Alright, so, do you have a new thing you’re into lately?

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} So, for people who follow me on Instagram, and you kind of half taught me something about this when you came to visit and we were working on the workshop, which will come out at some point {laughs}. I don’t know what the status is. Our designer was on vacation for like a month. But, you had me prying eggs, which your method was like a poach/fry blend. But I’ve been poaching eggs lately, and I wouldn’t say I’ve 100% mastered the technique, but I’m into it, and I’m working on it, and I’m trying to get it figured out. We always loved poached eggs at restaurants, but just never made them at home. I think I was totally intimidated.

But I’ve been into it, and my little cheat; I’m going to do a Periscope video on it at some point, so if you didn’t download the app yet, download it, this way you can watch it and ask questions live. That’s the whole cool thing about that app; it’s not the same as a YouTube video. You can watch anybody’s video; but with Periscope you can watch it and ask questions live and actually interact, so I think that’s super cool. Also, freaky for some people, but I think it’s super cool. {laughs}

Oh, so this little hack that I do when I’m home for poaching eggs is we have an electric tea kettle, so basically I’ll put hot water in the tea kettle and then turn that on to boil, which then it boils in what, one or two minutes, instead of waiting 10 minutes. So for people who are like, oh but it takes to long; I’m with you, I usually like to fry or even scramble eggs because scrambled is super fast. But the little tea kettle situation helps it move along a lot faster.

I’ll show you guys all the combination of tricks that I’m doing when I do the video, but that’s what I’ve been into lately, and I’m totally loving it. Because quite frankly, I’m not the best at frying eggs. I’m pretty good at scrambling eggs, but we eat fried eggs all the time, and I think I almost always overcook them, at least for Scott’s taste. I don’t mind them a little crispy on the edges, but I think he prefers them not to get crispy. Anyway. Not that he’d ever send them back to the kitchen and say he’s not eating it {laughs}. But I always feel badly, and I’m like sorry! So, that’s what I’m into. What about you? Do you have a new think you're into lately?

Liz Wolfe: Kind of. I can’t remember if I’ve already said this, but I don’t think I have. I’ve been blending coffee; we talked about chameleon cold brew the other day. Just like a room temperature or cold cold-brew coffee with some Vital Proteins collagen peptides, which I think we have a question about those coming up in a minute, so we’ll talk about those more, and some of the goat’s milk mineral whey from Tropical Traditions.

Diane Sanfilippo: That sounds fancy!

Liz Wolfe: It’s super fancy, so you know every once in a while I’ll go in and buy all the things from Tropical Traditions; because I’m like; ohh! Goats milk this, goats milk that! Just because as far as dairy goes, we tolerate that in this house better, the goat’s milk stuff. So I got this mineral whey, and it tastes like chocolate, like cocoa a little bit. So it’s just really, really, really, really, really good.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: And so I’ve been blending all of those together, and it’s almost like this; it’s like a chocolate milkshake a little bit. It’s so good.

Diane Sanfilippo: And for people who drink real chocolate milk shakes, they would be like; no Liz. No it’s not. {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: They’d be like no; no it’s not. But there’s just something about it that’s so good.

Diane Sanfilippo: It sounds pretty good, actually.

Liz Wolfe: That’s my jam.

Diane Sanfilippo: Alright, sounds good. Let us know if you try it.

Liz Wolfe: We are thrilled to have Paleo Treats back on our sponsor roster. We love their treats, from the Mustang bar to the Bandito and everything in between. They have been serving the paleo community since 2009, and were recently recognized by FedEx as one of the top 10 small business in America. Which of course, speaks to how much paleo and healthy eating is growing, but it also speaks to how passionate our friends Nick and Lee and the Paleo Treats team are about what they do. Use the code BALANCEDBITES one word, no space at http://www.paleotreats.com/ for 10% off.

3. Details on Diane’s wedding [14:31]

Liz Wolfe: Alright, onto questions then.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yes, yes!

Liz Wolfe: So, this is from Megan. Or Meegan; Megan. And I think this is a question echoed by women the world over who have been following your hashtag.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: “Diane, I’m dying to know what kind of food you served at your wedding, and what was the day like? Give us the details!”

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Inquiring minds want to know.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah!

Diane Sanfilippo: Oh man.

Liz Wolfe: Loved your dress by the way; so Grecian.

Diane Sanfilippo: Thank you! Ok, what details should I give? We knew we wanted to do something really simple. We did a backyard barbecue type of wedding, and we had about 60 people there. We ordered from Mighty Quinn’s barbecue, which I’ve posted a whole bunch on Instagram whenever we’re eating barbecue. It’s a pretty clean barbecue; I’m pretty sure their sauce is organic, they use organic cane sugar in it. It’s not corn syrup and soybean oil and all that kind of stuff. So it’s pretty clean as far as barbecue goes. And I think they also source their proteins kind of one step above baseline, if you go by the guide in Practical Paleo, so I think they kind of have a little bit of that thought process to the meats that they’re doing.

So, you know, ribs and brisket and chicken and coleslaw and that kind of stuff. So it was really yummy, and as Liz said we had a hashtag. I think a couple of people posted pictures of their plates; which I was pretty impressed. They looked nice. They were really colorful. So that was the food.

I had one rib and some sides; I don’t know, I was just running on adrenaline. It’s not that I didn’t have time to eat, I just kind of didn’t feel like eating. I just wasn’t really hungry. But I’ve eaten that food a million times, so it wasn’t a big deal. And then we actually had gluten free cupcakes from Kyra’s Bake Shop in Portland. I called them up one day; or I sent them an email to find out if I could get cupcakes from them. Because, for those of you who watch Cupcake Wars, like I do, while you tidy up, which you’re not supposed to do according to Marie Condo’s tidying up method, {laughs} you're not supposed to have music playing or, probably even worse, Cupcake Wars playing in the background on Hulu. But, I’m a Cupcake Wars fanatic even though I really don’t bake at all, I just enjoy watching the show. And Kyra’s won it three times; I don’t even think they’ve been in gluten free challenges, I think it’s just been straight up regular challenges. So I was like; well, I bet her cupcakes are pretty good.

So they shipped us cupcakes separate from the frosting, which I knew was going to happen, so I was prepared to pipe the frosting on it. If anybody is having an event and you want to do a gluten free cupcake thing; they were really yummy. Everyone loved them, nobody was like; eww these are gluten free; these are terrible! Everybody was like, those cupcakes were awesome. But yeah, I had fun piping the frosting on the morning of the wedding with one of my oldest friends, we’ve known each other since we’re 5 years old, and the two of us have had baking shenanigans since we’re probably 8. Neither of us can really bake. We’re both pretty good cooks but neither of us really bakes. We used to try pretty hard, so we were just laughing. We were like, of course you’re here when I’m trying to do this cupcake thing, so I get her roped in helping me fill these piping bags with frosting. I’m saying those words, and I know what they mean, but it’s like…

Liz Wolfe: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} I’m texting Brittany Angell, and she’s like oh my gosh! Because she already had a vacation planned so she wasn’t able to come. But, yeah it was just really funny. Anyway, that was really fun. And I know people were like; oh my gosh, I can’t believe you’re doing that. I don’t know; I didn’t have it in me to deal with hiring a wedding planner or fussing over a million details. For me, if I sprint and do things more last minute, and I just do something then if it’s not perfect; I know this is totally crazy but this is my personality. If it’s not perfect and I messed it up, I’m like; whatever, I did the best I could do. Versus if I pay someone a ton of money and something isn’t up to my expectations or hopes, then I’m super disappointed and I spent a whole bunch of money.

So I’m just like; I’d rather save the money, spend an hour or two of my time. I enjoy learning new things. I’m like; I will figure out how to pipe these cupcakes. I don’t think I’ve ever piped anything before except a deviled egg out of a Ziploc bag. So I had to figure that out.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} I was like, how hard could it be, right? The first couple were a little janky, and then, I piped 120 cupcakes so by the end, they looked really good.

Liz Wolfe: What is up with you and Hayley wanting to do all this work for your own beautiful weddings? {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: Because I just; because I can’t be bothered to involve one more person.

Liz Wolfe: I know.

Diane Sanfilippo: And then it’s like; they’re coming at me with more questions. I’m just like; I just know what I want, and I just do what I want.

Liz Wolfe: I’ll do it. Yeah; let me do it.

Diane Sanfilippo: It really wasn’t a big deal, though. Honestly; 120 cupcakes sounds like a lot, but it really isn’t that many when you see it all on the table. And then, yeah I did the flowers too. I had no plans for flowers, and we got into New Jersey on Tuesday, and I went to the flower shop in town and ordered flowers for a couple hundred bucks, made my bouquet, and made the centerpieces. It was fun. Scott helped me out. We did all of our errands together that week, and that’s the stuff that marriage is. You know? The wedding is fine and it’s fun, but the day to day; one of Scott’s really good friends. One of his oldest friends, actually. He and his wife gave us a piece of advice, and they were just like; you know, marriage is like running errands with each other and having it be that much better because you’re with each other. You know?

Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.

Diane Sanfilippo: Just little stuff like that. We were just kind of laughing because that’s what we did all week. We had things we could have done separately. We had one car we borrowed from my parents, and we could have borrowed another. But I was like, let’s just do everything together. He even came with me; he didn’t come into the salon, but he came when I got my manicure and he went to Starbucks; you know, at that time. He came with me to pick up the dress, waited upstairs. You know; just everything together, and it just made the whole week feel a little more special and like everything was part of the wedding, you know.

So that was it. We had a little short ceremony in my parent’s front yard, and then the reception in the back yard. Shot some photos in a local park that we have gone to many, many times walking the dog. Unfortunately, we had already brought Harper to California, so we couldn’t have her in any of those pictures.

Liz Wolfe: Aww!

Diane Sanfilippo: But if people want to see them, I think; well I posted them to my personal Facebook page, but I think what I’m going to do is post a little blog post up about the wedding and stuff, just so if anybody wants to see pictures, they can see them there. I’m not going to share the 12 preview pictures that I have over on Facebook probably, or Instagram. But I’ll put them in a blog post and I’ll share that. So it was great. Everything went great, and we had a really nice time. It was mellow, and it was great.

Liz Wolfe: So I want to ask you a question.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Yes.

Liz Wolfe: About {laughs} about, I think we’ve talked about celebrating, and paleo, and how you know, all of that in the past. But I just kind of wanted to bring it up, because you and I were talking off the air a little bit more about your wedding, and everything you ate and stuff. It just happens to be my birthday.

Diane Sanfilippo: I can’t believe we’re recording on your birthday, I feel so bad making you work today. Sorry friend!

Liz Wolfe: I’ve been really trying to not have a birthday.

Diane Sanfilippo: Aww.

Liz Wolfe: So, it’s fine. I mean, it makes me feel normal, which is great. But I have; oh my gosh, watch me get excommunicated from nutrition, but this morning I got taken out to breakfast, which was wonderful, and I had the gluten filled brioche French toast from Room 39. And I hurt now; I hurt.

Diane Sanfilippo: Was it awesome at the time?

Liz Wolfe: But it was spec-freaking-tacular. It was amazing. And you know what; it’s not, I think maybe a couple of years ago, if I had done that it maybe would have sent me into some kind of crazy tail spin for the rest of the day, week, month, year. But I’m good, you know. And I think the mental game around food is something that I’ve got a pretty good handle on at this point.

Diane Sanfilippo: Mm-hmm. We actually; the next question is about kind of this exact topic, so this is kind of a good segue.

Liz Wolfe: Oh good. Ok good. Well should I just read the question?

Diane Sanfilippo: No, keep saying what you were going to say. But I just; it’s a good one.

Liz Wolfe: I’m sure the discussion is going to go like this; well, if you can tolerate that type of stuff, do it; and if not, then don’t do it. So I think maybe for you, it’s just gluten is not something you really tolerate.

Diane Sanfilippo: I don’t really know, actually.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: I think I get exposed to it, and I actually think I have other foods that are even paleo-friendly that I do worse with. Or quasi paleo-friendly.

Liz Wolfe: Quasi? I just watched Austin Powers, by the way.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} For other reasons. Well, let’s do this question, because I actually have a couple of thoughts on it partially about what we tolerate and partially about how we make choices and our specific style of developing our own habits around that.

4. Stress less about paleo perfectionism [24:11]

Liz Wolfe: Ok. This is from Katie. Katie says, “I recently completed the 21DSD with great results. I was feeling very bad before I started it, and had a horrible sugar addiction. I learned so much about nutrition while on the detox, and I’ve totally revamped my eating habits. I’ve been on Weight Watcher’s on and off for the last 12 years, and it was always a temporary fix for me before I would resort back to my old habits and put on the same 15-20 pounds.

I’ve now moved into a paleo approach, which I love because I’m not counting calories, or points, or constantly worrying about food. I am, however, having an issue with paleo perfection. I’ve always been sort of an all or nothing kind of person where, if I was on Weight Watcher’s and I went off plan during one meal, I would say to hell with it and go off plan for the rest of the week. I’m eating probably 80% paleo now, but I do drink beer 2-3 times a week, and will also have pizza 1-2 times a month, as well as dairy free ice cream sometimes. I’m having trouble being ok with these choices, because I usually end up feeling sort of guilty afterwards, or feeling like a failure. But I think it’s hard to be paleo perfect 100% of the time. How do I transition into this new lifestyle without feeling guilty or stressed about being paleo perfect? Thank you!”

You’re right; that’s exactly the question.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, it’s a good one. And so I was like, wait a minute, we have a good question. So there are a couple of things that I think; what you mentioned, Liz, about how do you feel when you do that stuff? For me, just looking at this; having ice cream, or pizza, or beer. Of course I would say; if you feel ok eating regular pizza, I’m not one to be like, no you don’t. {laughs} No you don’t! No!

Liz Wolfe: It’s going to kill you; it’s not paleo.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. I mean, I think there are some good gluten free options, but the gluten free options aren’t necessarily healthier. Sorry, there are loud motorcycles outside, back in the city.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: The gluten free options aren’t necessarily healthier, but they’re gluten free, and for some people they don’t have the same ill effects, you know, ill after effects if they’re eating the gluten filled, as you call them. So that’s one thing.

The other thing, too, is of course; the same with the beer. Gluten-free beer, cider, etc.; if you can find other options, but again, if you’re not having ill effects. I do think sometimes the ill effects take years of on and off to actually pinpoint. Like, people go paleo, then sometimes they reintroduce things a little bit at a time, and don’t notice that that’s the thing that’s causing this weird other problem with their health that kind of nags on. So whether that’s like a nagging cough, or nagging acne, or some kind of weird pain in your body.

That’s one of the reasons why when I say to reintroduce something, I have you go with a full on insult with the reintroduction where you’re eating that thing at every meal after you reintroduce it, because it’s the same thing like when you exercise regularly. You might have a little bit of soreness from that exercise; but let’s just say you don’t exercise and then you go hard and you run a 5K the next day. You’ll actually feel what that exercise is doing to you more so than you would if you went for a walk, or ran one mile.

So when it comes to figuring out how the foods feel, of course there is this sense of; well yeah, if you eat a whole pizza and drink a 6-pack with it, you’re probably going to feel pretty crappy. And that’s not what I’m saying; do that all the time. But to really see how that stuff affects you, sometimes having a little bit now and then doesn’t illuminate the situation as well as having it kind of in a more intense way right after you’ve eliminated it. So that’s one thing.

To your point, Liz, I do think that for people; so what I was going to say about habits, and I’ve talked about this a few times based on what Gretchen Rubin writes about in her book, Better Than Before. She talks about these different tendencies that we have and ways that we develop habits, and reasons why certain programs like 21-Day Sugar Detox or like a strict paleo challenge or whatever you're doing, or whatever meal plan, or diet, or whatever it is; why these strict sets of rules sometimes work for people, and sometimes don’t, is that there are some people who are just abstainers. They would rather, as Katie is saying, just all or nothing. It’s all or nothing. And then there are some people who are moderators; you know, this expression, everything in moderation or, oh I can have a small amount. Or if I just have a small portion of it.

Juli Bauer is a perfect example of a moderator, because she talks about how when she went paleo in the beginning, she felt like she had to be so strict, and it was just making her crazy, and now allowing herself to have a small bite of something and move on with her life, she doesn’t feel crazy about it anymore, and she doesn’t want as much of it, either, because she allows herself to have a little bit of it. So I think there’s something that happens when you have a goal. If you are someone who is an abstainer; like I kind of tend to be an abstainer, as well, when I have a goal. I really can’t have any of it; especially if it’s food related. I eat a lot; I like to eat a lot, so I tend to have these rules when I have a goal.

But when it comes to a lifestyle, which is actually the perfect question that Katie asks at the end, “how do I transition into this new lifestyle without feeling guilty or stressed about being paleo perfect?” I think that’s the perfect question, because if you look at squeaky clean, “perfect paleo”; I’m saying in finger air quotes; that tends to be a diet. That tends to be something that people do; we do, for a period of time to find out what works for us. And I think that that’s really what everyone who is teaching about this stuff, everyone who eats this way from Robb Wolf to Mark Sisson, Chris Kresser; everyone. None of us eats 100% strict paleo all the time. It’s just not practical, and it’s just not practical for a lifestyle.

Now, that’s not to say that there aren’t people who might need to do that, either for now or forever if they have a health condition that they need to manage and you know, we would never be dismissive of that. If you have a severe autoimmune condition or you have an issue where you’re like; no, I need to eat this way, strictly, for forever. Well then that’s for that person, it’s not for everyone.

So I think for Katie, just partially understanding how you operate. If you know that having a “beer 2-3 times a week, pizza 1-2 times a month, and the dairy free ice cream sometimes”; if you know that it can kind of stay there, and you feel good and you’re reaching your goals, and everything is going fine, there is no police system that’s going to come crack down on you and be like; you can’t say that you’re trying to eat paleo or that you’re eating paleo. You don’t even have to call it that. If you’re worried that you’re out with your friends, and because you drink a beer, they’re like; you’re not paleo, you’re drinking that! Well first of all, your friends need to chill the heck out. Second of all, I just think that you don’t have to label yourself that way.

I don’t walk around telling people; I eat paleo, I eat paleo. Of course, what I do, most people know that this is the framework for it. But {laughs} joking about our wedding cupcakes; I told people they were gluten free cupcakes, but then people had this weird assumption that the frosting then was made of something other than sugar and butter, and I was like; no, no, no, no. There’s sugar. There’s plenty of sugar in that frosting.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: So that’s where I think; if you’re having guilt about it just because of the label, because you feel like somebody is going to tell you you’re doing it wrong; just let that go. Just let it go. There’s nobody to police you on it. If you physically feel bad after eating these foods, I think it’s important to take a step back and just figure it out. Are you having them because it’s emotional and you miss them? Are you socializing with the beer or the pizza, etc.? Like I said, we still do gluten free pizza, probably about once a month, roughly. Cider; I mean, Scott just put up a whole post on cider and gluten free beer alternatives on his website, because he is quite the connoisseur. {laughs} he tries them all, because he definitely misses beer, and can’t have the gluten stuff.

So I think those are kind of both sides of it. I wouldn’t beat yourself up for it; especially if you’ve been doing the paleo thing for a while, and you’re finding what works for you. I think that’s the goal that we all have, those of us who teach this, that most of the time you’re eating unprocessed real, whole, healthy foods. And then if you want to enjoy what you want to enjoy; you're an adult, you make those choices, you have the consequences, they are your own, and move forward.

I have to say, just kind of adding to this as kind of a last thought about what she said about the guilt; I definitely used to struggle with that a lot more. I feel like a struggled with it more when I thought that strict paleo was the only way to be healthy. And I think when you realize that there are a lot of ways to be healthy, and one of those includes having a slightly more relaxed mindset and being a little more forgiving and just enjoying yourself more without causing physical harm from your food. I think that’s a really healthy way to eat, you know. I just think that’s a balanced way to look at things.

Liz Wolfe: I agree with you on all the thoughts. At some point, on this whole food journey situation that I’ve been on, I just stopped being so in my own head about the individual choices I was making. So it just became; and I know people think I’m crazy when I say, just choose not to be bothered by one choice and what it might mean for a million choices after that. But I just don’t know where it switched; where all of a sudden it wasn’t all or nothing.

Diane Sanfilippo: Right.

Liz Wolfe: And I could have French toast once a year and be good to go. I don’t know when that happened. But I think it also, part of the movement right now. I guess it’s the body positive movement. But I also had heard somebody call it a body neutral movement where it’s like, you just are happy with taking care of yourself, feeding yourself good food, taking care of your body and being as healthy and as, I don’t know, appreciative of your body and what it’s capable of doing and maintaining those capacities over time; that’s enough. And at some point, I think that became enough for me.

Diane Sanfilippo: Mm-hmm.

Liz Wolfe: And I think even more now being a parent, I just have this insight where I’m like, it doesn’t matter.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: It doesn’t matter getting my body back. As long as I’m doing what’s right for me, and by extension, by my breastfeeding child; it’s cool. I’m not super spun up about everything else. But yeah; I love everything you said.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, I think; I don’t know what the name for that movement is. But as I talked about a few weeks ago on the show with the change in my fitness routines, whatever that means, routines. That’s been a really big one for me, too, where I’m less about what will this do for my physique. Of course, I’m still; you know, it’s not like I don’t care about it at all. I’m not going to be sitting around not moving. I do want what I’m doing to have positive results on my physical being, but I want that in a different way. You know? It’s like I’m not trying so hard to get all these PRs at the gym. I just want my body to feel more capable, and move better, and feel healthy, and not in pain all the time or stressed. Yeah, I’m just kind of trying to play more. Do things that are super fun.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah!

Diane Sanfilippo: It’s not that I don’t think Crossfit is fun, but it wasn’t as fun for me recently as it had been in the past. I’ll just say that. For no reason, other than change. Nothing like; I love the people at my gym. Almost all the coaches were at our wedding; love them. Ride or die; they are my peeps. But it’s just kind of how it goes.

Liz Wolfe: What did you just say? {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: Ride or die. {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: Ride or die, they’re my peeps.

Diane Sanfilippo: I don’t know; I don’t know.

Liz Wolfe: I like it, it’s good.

Diane Sanfilippo: I don’t even know what I’m saying.

Liz Wolfe: It sounds good.

Diane Sanfilippo: Alright. More questions.

5. Help with vitiligo [36:55]

Liz Wolfe: Alright, another question. This is from Ally. “Hi! I’ve searched your archives on the subject of vitiligo, and not surprisingly I didn’t find anything. I’ve been diagnosed with vitiligo for 3 years, and what started as a few dots on my left hand has now spread pretty heavily over my torso, hips, chest, and arms. I’d say at least 30% of my skin is losing pigment. I’ve been paleo for 2 years; AIP for 1. At the time I got diagnosed, I was in school and working full time, unhappily married, living in a town I hated; vegan for four years. Yeah, I know. And having regular panic attacks. Since then, my life is much better.

I moved to a new city, got a job I loved so much I dropped out of school; got divorced, meditate and work out regularly, and I can’t remember the last time last time I had a panic attack, but my vitiligo still spreads. My question for you is; what am I missing? Have you ever worked with anyone with vitiligo before? If so have they ever regimented?”

So I’m not sure if regimented; maybe I’m just missing what she means by regimented. But I’m guessing recovered, or whatever. I’ve never worked directly with anyone with vitiligo, but being kind of the skin person, I do know a little bit about it that I found a lot of practitioners don’t really connect the dots on.

Basically, there are some fairly well researched associations between certain gene mutations and vitiligo. This is an autoimmune issue, but you could also potentially assume; you know, we talk a little bit about epigenetics on the podcast here and there. This might have been something that you had the potential for, and possibly through different lifestyle issues, through stress or nutritional deficiency or whatever it is, may have spurred the development of an autoimmune disease. A lot of people have some kind of precipitating event, or precipitating time in their life where their autoimmune disease first manifested, or first flared. I think a lot of people with autoimmune disease can actually pinpoint that pretty closely.

But being that you’re dealing with an autoimmune disease, I do think it’s really important that you follow an autoimmune paleo format; but I also want to make sure that there’s no accidental undernourishment just out of an inability to figure out what the heck you can eat. I think that happens a lot on the autoimmune paleo protocol for folks; they just undereat, or they eat foods that are not immediately nutritious to the body.

I’m actually kind of a proponent of making sure you really feed your body with easily digested sources of carbohydrates when you're dealing with something like this; and I’m not talking about sugar, I’m talking about plenty of starches, whatever you can tolerate. Even sometimes the more refined stuff, like maple syrup and things like that, just to make sure that you're powering your metabolism. Because it’s really starting to look like the metabolic rate is a central governor of a lot of these things. Because we’re closely talking about the metabolic rate, the thyroid, and how much the thyroid has an impact on everything down stream. So just make sure that there’s enough nutrition in there, and I’m not just talking about micronutrients. So, that’s one thing.

Another thing is there are a couple of substances that might be interesting. You’re just going to have to Google around with this stuff, because I’m not sure what the status of the research is right off hand. Kojic acid, I believe it’s C-O-J-I-C or K-O-J-I-C. There’s also an extract from a fern, it’s called polypodium, and I’m probably saying that wrong; but polypodium. Podium like what you stand at and talk from your soap box on. So that might be something as far as an extract for topical application.

Another thing is; any time you’re dealing with an autoimmune disease. Just put it into Google; whatever it is you're dealing with plus vitamin D, and you will almost always come up with a lot of really interesting information. Not speaking towards vitamin D supplementation or sunlight necessarily, but it would be interesting to have your vitamin D levels checked. A lot of times in folks with autoimmune disease, they are low and we haven’t established whether or not; cart, horse; chicken, egg, when it comes to that type of thing. If lowered vitamin D has some kind of causative effect in the development of autoimmune disease, or if people with autoimmune diseases are not able to keep their vitamin D levels up; whether it’s depletive, I have no idea. So I don’t know what comes first, but it would be interesting to kind of find out what the vitamin D levels are there.

I do know that phototherapy, like UV exposure, has been used to treat vitiligo, so if that has not been recommended to you before, that might be something to check out. Yeah, that’s pretty much all I’ve got, which I’m guessing is probably more than maybe she’s heard in the past. Do you have anything, Diane?

Diane Sanfilippo: I do not, but I am very curious about the vitamin D situation.

Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.

Diane Sanfilippo: Just because I know; I even know some people who have, overall possibly low immune status, maybe general autoimmunity issues who also are intolerant to supplementing vitamin D.

Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.

Diane Sanfilippo: So I’m super curious about that. Just, you know what I mean.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: How one of the things that has developed in the whole paleosphere but also in a much broader holistic nutrition sphere is realizing the importance of the gut, and I think this is one of the reasons why we also are maybe; I don’t know if it’s that we’re more lax about it, but slightly about the whole gluten thing. It’s because it’s not just about the gluten. It’s about the terrain that it’s going into. It’s about what’s the bacterial landscape that this food is coming into? Of course, we don’t want people eating junky, processed whatever; but what if it is an organic, non-GMO wheat, and someone is making bread at home or getting it from a nice bakery? Ok, that’s potentially a traditionally made food, and it’s not this junky processed frankenfood. But for some people, will it ever work? And for some people will it not ever work? Etc.

I don’t know. I just think that whole question of understanding the terrain of the microbiome and how that plays such a huge role in disease and what foods we can eat and all of that, and why some people are like; that’s so crazy, I can’t believe you can’t eat all those things! And some people are like, I can’t eat any of those things. You know? It does seem totally weird, it’s not just the food. It’s the person and their system, too. I’m just super curious what that modulation will be like as related to vitamin D. Because we know vitamin D is not a vitamin the way a lot of other vitamins are; it’s almost a little bit more of a hormone type vitamin, and just what it does is just so powerful. Anyway, I’m curious. I don’t know. Not a researcher, so just curious to see what develops there.

Liz Wolfe: Me too. Somebody get on that.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: Somebody find some research.

Diane Sanfilippo: Get on it; let us know.

6. Vital Proteins versus Great Lakes collagen peptides [44:48]

Liz Wolfe: Yeah. Alright. So Krista asks; “I have a question about collagen powder supplements. I usually buy Great Lakes brand collagen, and I’ve purchased Vital Proteins before, as well. I absolutely love what a few tablespoons a day does for my skin. But I was wondering; is there a big difference between Vital Proteins and Great Lakes. Is one superior to the other? Do you have a preference?” etc., etc.

Ok, so since I mentioned this earlier in the podcast I wanted to answer this. I personally have started to order the Vital Proteins brand because I like their packaging better. But at this point, I don’t think there’s any difference between them whatsoever. Beverly Myer, who is at OnDietandHealth.com, I believe, has I think gotten both of them tested, and what appears to basically be a scientific impossibility between the two of them is that they yielded different lab results as far as their amino acid content, I think, so I’m keeping an eye on that. I don’t; that’s basically impossible, so I think she’s also keeping her eye on that, as well.

But yeah, I just like the Vital Proteins basically because of the packaging. Because by all orders of nature, it would be impossible that they were at all different if they were both collage peptides; so there you go.

Diane Sanfilippo: Because of the packaging being easier to open, or because it looks cuter?

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: Ok.

Liz Wolfe: It’s super cute.

Diane Sanfilippo: It is a better design; I’m just going to put it out there.

Liz Wolfe: It is. And it’s just easier to use. It doesn’t leak as much. Those little cardboard things. I mean, I’m sure they’re recyclable, and I’m being terrible carbon footprint; bad, bad Liz, bad. But I would lose so much out of those cardboard cylinders because they would just kind of pop open.

Diane Sanfilippo: Whoa, I’ve never had that happen. That’s so interesting.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah, I don’t know. You’re special.

Diane Sanfilippo: I’ve heard that one is much more expensive than the other, too, so it’s kind of like, if it’s cost prohibitive, do not worry, get the one that you can.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah. I think Vital Proteins might be a little bit more open about sourcing. I don’t think there’s anything amiss with the sourcing of the other brand, I just think Vital Proteins came to the game knowing that the people who were going to buy their product were going to ask that question.

Diane Sanfilippo: Mm-hmm.

Liz Wolfe: So they’re pretty direct about it too.

Diane Sanfilippo: Great Lakes has been sold for a very long time. I knew about that stuff years and years ago.

Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.

Diane Sanfilippo: Chekies have been into it for a long time.

Liz Wolfe: Chekies.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah; the Chekies. So yeah.

Liz Wolfe: Alright.

Diane Sanfilippo: Alright.

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7. #Treatyoself: Kyra’s Bake Shop and brioche French toast [48:20]

Liz Wolfe: So Diane, what is your #treatyoself of the week?

Clip: Three words for you; Treat. Yo. Self.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} My #treatyoself this week was, and not only wedding cupcakes, which I had almost 2 full cupcakes that I had after the wedding; well the night of the wedding because I didn’t get to eat them during the wedding, and then Kyra sent us some of her gluten free cinnamon rolls so I had one of those for breakfast the day after the wedding. And then she also sent us like a half sheet of gluten free brownies; so I haven’t been gorging on all of it, but I’ve definitely had a little bit of each of them, and that’s been my #treatyoself this week from Kyra’s Bake Shop in Portland. How about you; do you have a treatyoself?

Liz Wolfe: #briochefrenchtoast.

Diane Sanfilippo: That’s right! {laughs} Brioche or challah French toast would be absolutely my pick. That sounds amazing.

Liz Wolfe: Challah!

Diane Sanfilippo: Challah! Shout out to Simone of Zenbelly because she has a gluten free challah.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, in the new Yiddish Kitchen that’s coming out, I think next year.

Liz Wolfe: Love it.

Diane Sanfilippo: Crazy, crazy. Alright.

Liz Wolfe: Alright, so that’s it for this week. You can find me, Liz, at http://realfoodliz.com/ and you can find Diane at http://dianesanfilippo.com. Join our email lists for free goodies and updates that you don’t find anywhere else on our website or on the podcast; top secret stuff. While you’re on the internet, leave us an iTunes review. See you next week.