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You’re listening to the Balanced Bites podcast episode 258.
Welcome to the Balanced Bites podcast with Diane Sanfilippo and Liz Wolfe. Diane is a certified nutrition consultant, and the New York Times bestselling author of Practical Paleo, The 21-Day Sugar Detox, and co-author of Mediterranean Paleo Cooking. Liz is a nutritional therapy practitioner, and the best-selling author of Eat the Yolks and The Purely Primal Skincare Guide. Together, Diane and Liz answer your questions, interview leading health and wellness experts, and share their take on modern paleo living with their friendly and balanced approach. Remember our disclaimer: The materials and content within this podcast are intended as general information only, and are not to be considered a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.
Liz Wolfe: Hey everybody, it’s Liz here with Diane. How you doing bud?
Diane Sanfilippo: Hey; doing well.
Liz Wolfe: Hey.
Diane Sanfilippo: How are you?
Liz Wolfe: I’m good. I’m good. We haven’t talked in, what, about 12 minutes?
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Something like that.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah. Missed you!
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: Let’s hear from one of our sponsors.
Liz Wolfe: Our podcast sponsorship today comes from Vital Choice, an online purveyor of the world’s best wild seafood delivered right to your door; because juggling a busy life shouldn’t mean you have to forgo healthy meals. At www.vitalchoice.com, you’ll find wild Alaskan salmon, halibut, tuna, sable fish, and cod, as well as prawns, crab, and scallops. You’ll also find grass-fed organic Wagyu beef, free range heritage chicken, fresh frozen organic berries, and dark organic chocolates. Make a vital choice by eating the highest quality food you can. Vital Choice; come home to real food. Use code BALANCEDBITES to save on your first order at www.vitalchoice.com.
1. News and updates from Diane & Liz [2:04]
Liz Wolfe: Alright. Let’s do something different, and why don’t you give me your updates, Diane?
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} For a change of pace. I’m going to keep it quick since I had a lot of updates last week and was talking all about the new book and all that fun stuff. Quickly; tour dates, you guys, go to http://blog.balancedbites.com/events for all the tour dates and to RSVP. San Francisco, Portland, Seattle, Tacoma, Sacramento, Phoenix, Kansas City; Liz will be there, wo-hoo! Denver, Boulder, Chicago area, Paramus, New Jersey, and Austin, Texas. And those are the cities, so join us. It’s going to be super fun.
Don’t forget to join me for Facebook live on Thursdays. And I think that’s it for now. Yeah. What’s up with you? What’s new?
Liz Wolfe: Huh?
Diane Sanfilippo: That was my fastest updates ever. Ever!
Liz Wolfe: Yeah, I was not ready for that. I usually go to the kitchen, get a cheese stick, you know.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: Bathroom, do some handstand pushups.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: I only got halfway through my second handstand pushup in that amount of time.
Diane Sanfilippo: Darn it!
Liz Wolfe: Yep. So I have an update, I guess. It’s just a thing that I did that I might as well tell everybody about. I posted it on Instagram; my chicken, my organ meat blob; I don’t know, I guess we’re calling it meat blobs.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: I feel like {laughs} Ok, now I just remember what they reminded me of. They remind me of meatwad from; oh my gosh, why can’t I remember the show?
Diane Sanfilippo: They remind you of what?
Liz Wolfe: Meatwad from the show; this show, oh my gosh.
Diane Sanfilippo: I’m just going to guess a show. I have no idea. Arrested Development? No.
Liz Wolfe: No!
Diane Sanfilippo: I feel like they do a lot of funny things that you like. {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: This is my brain now. I cannot brain at all; because I know the name of the show, and this is really going to bother me.
Diane Sanfilippo: Should our listeners just wait; should we just wait?
Liz Wolfe: Aqua Teen Hunger Force! I got it. Aqua Teen Hunger Force. Ok.
Diane Sanfilippo: I don’t even know that that’s a television show so I could not have helped you there.
Liz Wolfe: You should for sure watch it. It’s like Spongebob Squarepants for grownups. It’s like short shows.
Diane Sanfilippo: Nope.
Liz Wolfe: For short attention spans. It’s pretty entertaining. But anyway.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: {laughs} Now that we’ve gotten that out of the way, I made these little meat blobs. Technically they’re meatballs, but I made them a little too big so they turned into blobs. And these were, I eat them too, obviously, but I more make them to have for the week for my kid because I really want to make sure she gets some good organ meats in. we do the liverwurst from US Wellness Meat; we do the braunschweiger as well from US Wellness Meats.
Diane Sanfilippo: Mm-hmm.
Liz Wolfe: And I was actually just; I love when this happens, it makes me feel real good about myself. I was just catching up on some of Chris Masterjohn’s podcasts, and he actually talked about how he’s eating, or was eating, the liverwurst from US Wellness Meats quite a bit, maybe every morning. He was trying to eat it every morning. And I was like, “Yay! I give that to my kid! There’s something to this whole deal.”
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: So I basically did 2 pounds of ground chicken that I got from US Wellness, I just didn’t feel like grinding my own; ground chicken and I combined it with 1 pound total of a combination of chicken liver and chicken hearts. The chicken organs I find are a lot more mild than the ones from beef.
Diane Sanfilippo: Definitely.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.
Liz Wolfe: So I basically lightly cook the chicken liver and the hearts just to get some of the water out, because if I pureed them before cooking them it would basically just be water, and somehow in my head that doesn’t seem like that would work that well in meatballs. So I combine the raw chicken with the lightly cooked and pureed organ meat, a ton of oregano, some of the garlic from Primal Palate, which is amazing; their spice, their granulated garlic I guess. And salt and pepper, a little bit of ground oats, which I know is horrifying, probably, for some people but it just helps give it some; it helps thicken it up. It helps thicken up the meat blobs a little bit, and we do fine with it.
So basically just cook them at 350 for 15-18 minutes if you're making big meat blogs.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: There’s a picture on Instagram with my little kid’s hand around the meat blob. So that’s my kid’s hand; it’s not my hand. It’s not that big of a meat blob. But she loves them; they taste really good. You can hardly tell. I actually gave one to my mom a couple of weeks back, and she was like, “Oh, that’s delicious, can I have another?” And I was like, you know what, I’m not going to tell her what’s in this.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing}
Liz Wolfe: I’m just going to give her another one. So really good; really good with some butternut squash pasta sauce. And we give them to her cold, as snacks. I actually had a couple before the podcast started. It’s just a good thing to have lying around. Lying around? I don’t know. So that’s a really good way to sneak in these really nutrient rich organ meats into your diet and into your kid’s diet. So I actually got the chicken liver and the chicken hearts from Slanker’s meats; because for me, just at this particular point, it was easier just to order them and have them delivered. But if you can, check out local farms, local farmers, see if you can get some chicken liver and chicken hearts from them. If not, you can always order.
Remember when we started this whole paleo deal, there were like 2 places to order them from.
Diane Sanfilippo: I know.
Liz Wolfe: And now there’s quite a few, so you can pick one that’s closer to you and maybe doesn’t have to ship as far.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. I definitely, one of the new recipes in Practical Paleo, is superfood meatloaf, and it does have chicken liver in it, even though the meat that’s in it; I feel like, did I do beef and pork? I can’t remember what I combined. As I’ve mentioned many times on the show, once I finish the work, I have to try and block it out so I don’t experience the trauma of the stress over and over. But that meatloaf is really good.
Same thing, where you’re putting tons of spice in and it really, it masks the strong flavor. The reason the organ meats have such strong flavor is they’re so rich in nutrients. So nutrients have flavor. {laughs} that’s kind of what happens. But awesome. Those sound really good. I think people would be surprised.
Liz Wolfe: They look disgusting, but they’re good.
Diane Sanfilippo: Well I think most meatballs look kind of gross, but I think people would be surprised at what they’re family will eat if they just don’t mention it. And I’m not all about sneaking things, but when it comes to organ meat; just get it in there. {laughs} Just get it in there. Cool, sounds good. I’d probably dip those in ketchup, what you just described. I’d dip it; or some tzatziki.
Liz Wolfe: Ooh, that’s a good idea.
Diane Sanfilippo: Mm-hmm.
Liz Wolfe: These are; {gasp} that is great idea!
Diane Sanfilippo: Because they’re kind of
Liz Wolfe: I can do Greek seasoning with these next time.
Diane Sanfilippo: Well because they’re; you said oregano and garlic, which to me is like, ding, ding, ding! Greekified.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah. That would totally work. They are very similar in flavor, I would think, to whatever that meat is that you usually have with gyros.
Diane Sanfilippo: Gyros. Gyros. Sounds good.
Liz Wolfe: Gyros?
Diane Sanfilippo: Did you just give us a recipe on this podcast, by the way?
Liz Wolfe: No.
Diane Sanfilippo: Was that a recipe? Recipe?
Liz Wolfe: No, I did not.
Diane Sanfilippo: Five question marks.
Liz Wolfe: {laughs} Recipe??? The three question mark punctuation should have a name, like the triad. Like.
Diane Sanfilippo: I was saying 5, because usually when someone asks me it has 5 question marks.
Liz Wolfe: Oh my goodness.
Diane Sanfilippo: Like, I am freaking out, I need the recipe right now! Or I’m going to just not make it. I’m not going to make it.
Liz Wolfe: {laughs} I turned the stove on, I got the spatula out; where is the recipe!
Diane Sanfilippo: Gimme that recipe. Gimme. {laughs}
2. Shout out: The Nourished Podcast [10:05]
Liz Wolfe: Oh lord, alright. So I have a shout out.
Diane Sanfilippo: Ok, what’s your shout out?
Liz Wolfe: If I may. I want to shout out Shawn and Meg from The Nourished Podcast, and I can’t remember if I’ve maybe done that before. I apologize if it’s not top of brain; it’s bottom of brain, and that’s not an accessible area for me right now.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: But Shawn and Meg, that’s Well_Belly and MegtheRHN on Instagram. I think they’re just really killing it with their podcast right now. If you’re looking for another podcast to check out, that might be a good one!
Diane Sanfilippo: Pete’s Paleo has opened a new location on the East Coast. Since they’re still operating out of San Diego, as well, this means local produce and meat coming from both coasts. And drastically reduced shipping prices. Check out their new and improved website, www.PetesPaleo.com to take advantage of low shipping rates; and be sure to use coupon code 1FREEBACON. That’s the number 1 free bacon, and receive a free half pound of bacon with the purchase of a meal plan. Go to www.PetesPaleo.com.
3. Exercise in the morning [11:07]
Liz Wolfe: Alright, so today’s topic we have listener questions.
Diane Sanfilippo: Dun-dun-dun! I feel like we need a little musical excitement. “Listener questions! Dun-dun-dun!” {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: Have you; so one of the things I love about Chris Masterjohn’s podcast is the opening music. It’s like, dun-dun-dun, dun-dun-dun-dun-dun!
Diane Sanfilippo: It’s like a Last American Hero kind of music or something. {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: Something like that. It’s good though, so yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: I haven’t listened in a couple of weeks.
Liz Wolfe: Maybe we could use that.
Diane Sanfilippo: I don’t know. Maybe we need a new podcast intro. I was thinking about this recently. Any who; ok, questions. Questions;
Liz Wolfe: Listener questions. Ok; this one is from Ashley. It’s about working out in the morning. “Hey Diane and Liz; I’m such a huge fan of your podcast. I could go on, and on, and on. I listen to you ladies at work, at the gym, cleaning the house, in the car, pretty much everywhere I can.” So right now she’s like at the gym; she’s pumping her fists, like “I’m getting my question answered!”
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: Kind of like Brad Pitt in Burn After Reading where he’s on the treadmill. No; nothing?
Diane Sanfilippo: I saw it but just once.
Liz Wolfe: “I thought you might be worried about the security of your shh…” I can’t say it. Alright. “So here’s my question. I’m sure you’ve heard people say, ‘I cannot work out in the morning.’ Or, ‘I cannot workout in the evenings.’ Well, I’m one of those people who has a really hard time working out in the morning. I usually work out after work, 5:30 to 7 p.m.-ish. Once in a while, I like to get up at 8 a.m. and do a Saturday morning boot camp or spin class, but almost every time, without fail, a few hours later I get a migraine. My rationale, which may not be accurate, is that my body is just not ready for strenuous exercise that early. By 5:30 at night when I normally workout, I’ve had plenty of water, food, and coffee throughout the day and I’m ready to rock and I feel great during my workout. When I try and do a 9 a.m. spin class, I get up around 7:30, drink plenty of water, have some oatmeal and a banana, have a bit of coffee, but it still doesn’t seem to help me out.
I also thought maybe my electrolytes got depleted from all the sweat, so I make sure to drink some lemon water with a pinch of sea salt when the a.m. workout is over. I’ve stopped my morning workouts because I’m sick of my Saturdays being ruined by headaches. Why can some people get up and workout strong in the a.m. and some people, like myself, really struggle?
I have a breakfast smoothie, banana, steel cut oats, all natural peanut butter, whey protein powder, almond milk or two eggs and toast in the morning, 7:30 a.m.” I like that this is kind of a paleo podcast, but we’re drawing from folks who aren’t necessarily paleo.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: This is interesting. That’s cool though, man. We talked about the last episode; you do what works for you. “I bring my lunch to work every day, usually a small spinach salad with cucumber, tomato, blueberries, and strawberries with fresh lemon and olive oil for my dressing paired with oven roasted chicken breast on gluten free bread or wrap or deli meat.”
Diane Sanfilippo: I’m so hungry! {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: I know! {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: As you read this, I’m like, can I have one?
Liz Wolfe: Meat blobs aren’t doing it for me right now. “Sometimes I have some gluten-free chips, Jackson’s Honest or the Way Better brand. I stay away from crappy oils as much as I can. Mid-day I usually have some grass-fed yogurt or a kombucha drink, and dinner varies but I make sure I have a solid protein source with potatoes or quinoa and fresh veggies. I also have a whey protein post-workout shake. I’m not strict gluten free, but I try and stay away from it, and I’ve cut back on it quite a bit for no other reason than I just do not see a need for it in my body. Thankfully I do not have any digestive problems, and I feel great during the day.
I workout; cardio mixed with strength training 3-4 nights a week. It’s hard to know how I recover from them because I come home, eat dinner, and go to bed. Bed by 11 a.m.” 11 a.m.? That’s probably 11 p.m. “Up by 7 a.m. I wake up fine the next morning, almost always before my alarm. If not, I try not to hit the snooze button. I drink plenty of water post workout so I do not wake up totally dehydrated. I’m 5’2”, 120. I’m happy with this weight and have stayed this weight give or take a few pounds as long as I can remember. My periods are right on time every month. I get tension headaches once in a while because I have a tight neck and traps. I try and get massages and see a chiro when I can.
I’m a graduate student, so I’m under some stress, but I love my job and what I study so I really don’t feel stressed, even though I’m always on the go, go, go. I’ve always lived my life this way. If I do get migraines, maybe one every few months, I blame it on PMS or workout induced migraines. I do not take any medications or supplements. I have a beer once a week; Friday night sometimes I eat French fries. I also love fro-yo, maybe once a week and only half a cup. Dairy does not seem to bother me at all.
Much like Diane all I watch…”
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: “Is chopped and other Food Network shows.” {laughs} This is from that “Anything else you want to tell us” section.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: You girls are the best. You have improved my life for the better, and I recommend your books all the time. I’m reading Eat the Yolks right now. I love it! Thanks for taking the time. Cheers.” Cool.
Diane Sanfilippo: This is a doozy. So a couple of things; one, I was not a morning workout person before, and I will say this as well. Previously when I used to work out on Saturdays in the morning after not working out in the morning very regularly during the week, I would feel; I wouldn’t get a migraine but I would actually feel super zonked a couple of hours later during the day. And so this is just something that would happen to me Saturdays. I would kind of go pretty hard Saturday morning, and yeah by about 1 or 2 o'clock in the afternoon, I would just feel really, really wiped out.
So a couple of things I would say; if you don’t want to work out in the morning, don’t work out in the morning. It sounds like she’s interested in making the switch, so that’s why we’re going to give some pointers about it. But you don’t have to do it. I do think that it is a little more natural to workout in some part of the day earlier than in the evening, because, realistically speaking, if you’re working out at night you are getting your cortisol raised in the evening when you’re really trying to relax and calm down heading into bedtime. So there’s that; ok, it does go with your circadian rhythm to work out earlier in the day. But if it’s working for you, it’s working for you; fine.
Maybe you’re not getting migraines because you’re going to sleep pretty quickly after the workout. Obviously it’s not kicking in, but maybe that’s because you’re not awake to know what’s happening. So just one little point there.
But I will say this. I think it takes a long time to get used to it, and I think you need to ease into it, at least this is my experience. When I started working out in the mornings, I was not doing the type of higher intensity stuff I’m doing now for the first month, or at least the first few weeks, it was mostly just walks in the morning. And then it was mostly just cardio, I think, in the morning, and then eventually I started to be able to lift weights in the morning when I was more awake and felt like I had more energy. And it probably took a couple of months to ease into that. So, Ashley, if you’re interested in becoming a morning workout person, I would say don’t switch it to start out. Keep your evening workout, but in the morning, go for a walk for 30 minutes before you eat. Don’t even eat; have some water and maybe have coffee if you’re going to, or lemon water, whatever you want to do. But just go for a walk. Put a podcast on, go for a walk, just get your body moving and see how that feels, see how your energy is. And then eventually you might be able to make the switch, and I would just not say to go into something super high intensity first thing.
She’s saying, when she tries to do a 9 a.m. spin class, like on the, sounds like it’s on; is this on the weekend? “I feel great when I do a 9 a.m.” I mean, I’m assuming a 9 a.m. spin class is on the weekend. I’m not assuming somebody is working out at 9 a.m. before going to work, but maybe because she’s a grad student, she does. Honestly, I would try to keep the workout even earlier in the day, and I would try and do it fasted. So get up, water or coffee or lemon water, tea, whatever you’re going to drink first thing, and do your workout fasted. It’s not a big deal to do that. I know some people freak out, but when you go from rest and digest to fight or flight mode, you actually don’t have an appetite during that time while you’re working out. Come home and eat a really, really good breakfast; include carbs in your breakfast for sure, and you should be feeling a lot better if you go that route.
And again; ease into it. You don’t need to have a Crossfit workout that you’re doing first thing the first day that you’re trying to work out in the morning. But that’s my advice there. And I would make sure that you’re eating a really good breakfast after the workout and that you’re getting, I would say a minimum of 30 grams of carbs into your post-workout meal, but probably more like 50. That’s including any starchy stuff; maybe fruit, veggies, etc. At least 50 grams of carbs in that post-workout meal; that breakfast. So those are my tips there. Any other thoughts on that, Liz; I know you’re not currently in a workout jam.
Liz Wolfe: No, I’m not currently. The only thing that I would add is, if she’s just kind of like curious about why this might happen and not as concerned about making the switch to morning workouts. I don’t know a whole lot, but maybe there’s just that physiological warm-up that you just need to get your body primed to pump that blood and get through some of that morning vasoconstriction that I think; I think, but I’m not entirely sure, is impacted by cortisol, and cortisol does kind of spike in the morning. So I think a long days’ lead in to a workout is probably what’s keeping the migraines at bay. I’m sure cortisol and renin angiotensin aldosterone axis probably has something to do with it, if she just wanted to have some fun Googling that type of thing, she sure could. Then again, she could just take your advice {laughs} and figure out what works.
Diane Sanfilippo: I used to feel like my body wasn’t ready for it first thing in the morning.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: And you know, it’s not like I wake up and 10 minutes later I’m working out. It’s usually, I would say, by the time I wake up and am actually at the gym working out is usually at least an hour by the time I go through all of it. Actually wake up, get out of bed, change my clothes, have my coffee, go to the gym, get started, probably an hour. So I think; yeah. I used to think, I used to say I needed an oil can first thing in the morning if I was going to work out.
Liz Wolfe: {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: I just felt rickety and squeaky and creaky. And I have definitely, not migraines but I definitely had major exhaustion in the past when I would try and do an early morning workout. And I honestly think part of that’s because you’re not in the habit of working out in the morning, you’re in the habit of working out in the evening and your body is used to that. So you’re probably having a major stress response and like you said, maybe there is something with blood flow that’s not moving properly at that hour of the morning if you’re body is not used to it.
It’s just like any other change; we’ve talked about this before, even just switching to paleo. Not everyone feels good going cold turkey overnight. So if you’re trying to do this once a week where you work out in the evening, and then one day; bam! You try and workout in the morning, you’re body is not ready for that. So I would just try and switch it up a little and ease in.
Liz Wolfe: What was her name, Ashley? Ashley, if you want to really nerd out, look at this study from, where is it? Ok, it’s called glucocorticoids and vascular reactivity. Glucocorticoids suppress the production of vasodilators and that’s also probably pretty tightly involved with migraines, if you just want to nerd out for fun. If she likes our podcast, she probably likes nerding out.
Diane Sanfilippo: Mm-hmm.
4. Toxins in the home [23:01]
Liz Wolfe: Cool. Alright, this next one is from Aileen. This is about toxins in the home. “Hi; I love your work. Thanks so much for all that you share. I remember listening to a podcast where you spoke about finding mold or some toxins in your new home, and I can’t find a particular podcast on the topic. Do you have advice for future homeowners? We’re looking now, on what to test for/look for before buying or moving in? Thank you.”
Well, my number one piece of advice is don’t buy an old farmhouse unless you have a ton of money to renovate it and fix it up. We found lead paint in our house, and really lead paint becomes a danger when it’s flaking. A lot of old houses have lead paint, that’s just really kind of a normal routine thing. You can get lead paint tests through, I think it’s Lead Safe America, I’m not 100% sure, but you can Google that and they will send you free kits, I believe, or you just make a small donation and get those kits, or you can get them, I’m sure at the hardware store.
We just weren’t comfortable waiting for the lead paint to start flaking, and all that, so I called the state, I called some lead paint remediation experts, and you can find people that are actually certified in lead paint remediation. For us, we went with just our general contractor. I don’t know if that was a mistake or not, but at the time it was an option between doing nothing at all, taking out a loan just so we could afford professional remediators, or just trusting our contractors to do it.
And since it wasn’t; what was funny was, you do this research online, and they say, “You have to find somebody that’s certified in lead paint remediation.” And yeah, I totally get that. That’s probably important. But then, on the other hand, the same people will say, “Oh, well if you’re going to take it out yourself, you can just take a paint scraper, and just make sure you wet it down so the lead flakes don’t go up into the air and you don’t breathe them in.”
So it just makes absolutely no sense; I think we’re just not; what’s really sad is I think this has a lot to do with economics, and I don’t know what the proper word would be. But lead paint is a huge issue for lower income regions. So little kids that live in old rentals that are not kept up properly are at huge risk for flaking lead paint, and lead paint exposure, where as the people that actually go out there and ask questions and have the time to figure this out and who have the resources to test for these types of things. I mean, the only reason we found out was because we were going through renovation. So we were able to gather all of this information and potentially if we wanted to spend a ton of money getting it officially remediated by someone trained to do that. So this is just as much as, you know, I guess a social issue as it is anything else.
But any who, we found lead paint. So I don’t know a whole lot about mold or toxins. I know we have some friends that have dealt with mold in their homes. I’ve heard a little bit about using certain essential oil blends to, I don’t know, kill spores but I know nothing about that. It’s such a fringe holistic type thing to be talking about, and a lot of times that fringe holistic environment, we really nail some things, but we really go off the reservation with other things. So I’m just not sure.
Diane, did Hayley write a post about mold or testing about their old house; do you remember?
Diane Sanfilippo: I feel like they may have.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: But, I’m actually going to look right now. Let’s see if they have anything. Sorry, I’m typing.
Liz Wolfe: Ok, if our friends Hayley from Primal Palate has written about that, we’ll post it to the show notes. But also, folks listening, if you have experience with this, go to the podcast show notes for this episode, 258, and please leave your advice and thoughts and experiences in the comments section, so Aileen can come back and get some wisdom from you guys. I think this is happening a lot more than we think.
I do have an air purifier; I don’t know what the mold status is of our house, I don’t know how much longer we’re going to be there. We’ll certainly seek out a similar situation where we have land and we can bring our animals there, but I will not buy an old house like that ever again. But I do have an IQ air purifier; it’s pretty darn expensive, but it’s been really, really good and I actually have it in my daughter’s room. So that’s definitely a really, really good purifier. I think a lot of people with multiple chemical sensitivities choose that brand. So leave information in the show notes, folks who’ve been through this, for Aileen to come back and check.
Diane Sanfilippo: They have a blog post about reducing toxins in your home; I believe it’s a guest post here.
Liz Wolfe: Ok.
Diane Sanfilippo: I don’t think it’s talking specifically about mold, but it’s talking about some other environmental toxins.
5. Long term antibiotic use and weaning off [28:10]
Liz Wolfe: Ok. Sorry we can’t be more helpful, but when we crowd-source these things, we often get some really, really good information.
Alright, this next one; weaning off antibiotics. Ugh; I’m not going to say this name right.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: Meta..
Diane Sanfilippo: I don’t know.
Liz Wolfe: Met, like Bette? Like Bette Midler? Mette. Sorry. “Greetings from Denmark!” Wow, you’ll have to excuse me. I’m not super familiar with Denmark pronunciation. {laughing}
Diane Sanfilippo: She’ll know who she is.
Liz Wolfe: “Greetings from Denmark, Europe, Diane and Liz where I enjoy your podcast weekly. I have a question about weaning off antibiotics. I’ve had problems with acne since being a teenager. For 10 years I had great skin because of being on the pill. I loved going off the pill, I felt like I could feel myself more, if that makes sense; I felt more like a woman, but I hated my acne returning. Now, 29 years old, I’m still dealing with cystic acne, primarily on my back. I get a ton of compliments on my face skin which is clear and often glowing. But people rarely get to see my hideous, scarred acne back. I tried the IUD Jadelle for about a year, but it worsened my acne with new breakouts, especially right before my period, so I had it taken it out about 2 months ago. I’m now trying now birth control except for condoms for a while.
My doctor started me on systemic antibiotics, lymecycline,” I’m not sure how it’s pronounced. “For 3 months, and I’m 2 weeks from ending them. Now I sort of know in my heart the antibiotics won’t help in the long run; I was just so frustrated with my situation, so I thought I’d take the advice of my conventional doctor, that my conventional doctor could give.”
I’m going to interject really quickly here. Antibiotics can actually sometimes, especially short term, and 3 months that’s pretty long term, but not too bad. Sometimes antibiotics can actually really do some good things. I mean, I know that’s sacrilege, but sometimes if you’re dealing with endotoxin or you’re dealing with just a lot of bacterial imbalance, this could be an opportunity for you to build it up. Maybe, Diane, you’re going to talk about that again.
Diane Sanfilippo: No, but yeah.
Liz Wolfe: Just to quell some worries. “I’m getting worried about weaning off the antibiotics, since I know my gut bacteria has probably been damaged. Do you have any advice on what to do? I’m especially worried that my acne will grow worse after ending the antibiotics. Which probiotics would you recommend? I’m planning on supporting my gut with bone broth and fermented foods such as homemade kimchi,” yum. “But is there anything else I should do? I can see my skin flare up when up eating gluten and dairy, however not sure if it’s all dairy or just the processed stuff. Even after cutting it out my skin is still bad and will flare-up without me really knowing why. I think it could be hormonal, but I have no idea how to deal with this.
I am and always have been naturally slender, 120 pounds and 5 feet 5; live primarily paleo, adding rice and potatoes but gluten and grain free 90% of the time. I try to avoid vegetable oils and try to stick to coconut oil, avocado and olive oil. I only eat grass-fed real butter, but not sure I can tolerate it. I eat a lot of grass-fed free range organic meat, fish and eggs, and drink herbal teas and homemade kombucha daily.
I supplement with fermented cod liver oil, zinc, and a D3 vitamin. Sleep is around 7-8 hours. Love to have drinks with friends, but stopped drinking beer and I keep to wine and spirits. Going out for drinks is a huge part of my life, and gives me joy and happiness.” {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: “I shifted to the paleoish lifestyle after being diagnosed with the autoimmune condition ITP, it’s a blood disease, in December 2015 which I was hospitalized and treated for since I had close to 0 platelets in my blood. I’m now stable with a decent amount of platelets. My mother has been diagnosed with Hashimoto’s and has always had, and ignored, a wheat intolerance. Both my parents suffered from and ignored acne, and my sister is also prone to breakouts. I’ve had both celiac and dairy allergy testing at my conventional doctor, and the tests came out negative. I have gummies one time a week, alcohol four times a week.”
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: So she’s like a fellow gummy bear enthusiast.
Diane Sanfilippo: Fellow to you or me?
Liz Wolfe: You; don’t you love gummy bears?
Diane Sanfilippo: Gummy; not bears. But it’s been a long time {laughs} since I had them. Since I had the traditional form. Yeah. So, ok. A couple of things here. I’m with you; I mean, look, we know people do antibiotics for skin issues, and I think part of the reason why they can be really effective is, if we don’t know what’s happening and there is some kind of just chronic infection going on, especially a gut infection like you mentioned Liz, maybe some endotoxin, something that’s happening in the gut. Basically it’s just widespread kill all the things {laughs} and that can really help in the short term. It can help in the long term, too, we don’t know.
So coming off of the antibiotics; honestly the best thing you can do is just be prepared with some probiotics and perhaps a soil based one like Prescript Assist. I think I have it linked on the shop page if you go to http://blog.balancedbites.com and you want to see which one I’m talking about, just go to the shop. But that may or may not be the great solution. Some probiotics work for some people, and don’t work for others. We don’t know enough about every single person’s variety of gut bacteria that needs to be repopulated. So it’s kind of a little bit of a shot in the dark where we need to just try something, see how it goes for about a month or so, see if you experience any benefits from it, and if not you could probably move on. Or if you don’t experience any negative effects, you could probably hang onto it for, let’s say 2-3 months, and if you’re not seeing any benefit from it, as well, then you might want to try a different one.
Other than that and what she’s talking about in terms of supporting her gut, unfortunately I would say to support your gut that alcohol is not a good idea while you're trying to heal. So I can totally respect the fact that going out for drinks with friends gives you joy and happiness; I think you can still go out for drinks and you don’t have to have alcohol. I know as somebody who is not; I’m just not generally a big drinker anyway; it’s always really easy for me to say that. But if you’re asking what to do to help your gut, alcohol is definitely something that’s going to promote leaky gut.
NSAID pills, pain killers; non-steroidal antiinflammatories. She didn’t mention taking any, of course, but if you are and if somebody is listening and you're taking them, also going to promote leaky gut. So all of those things outlined in the digestive health section in Practical Paleo; so if you are not remembering everything that I’m talking about, there are lots of different things that can contribute to leaky gut, and those are all things that I would avoid while you’re trying to deal with reinoculating.
So just pay attention to that stuff. I’m not saying you will never go out for drinks with your friends again. Go out; have a soda water with lime, and just avoid the alcohol while you’re coming off of those antibiotics. So that’s really what I would recommend in that time period. I would try not to freak out about it; just keep eating nutrient dense foods, and kind of stay on your track. It did say she’s 5 feet 5-3/4 inches, just in case she thinks maybe this was somebody else, but there was a fraction in there, and I was paying attention because I’m pretty much exactly the same height.
Liz Wolfe: {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} So it’s like; oh, that’s interesting. But anyway. So that’s really it. I don’t have much else for it for this response here. I don’t know if you’ve got any other thoughts on that.
Liz Wolfe: Well you definitely addressed the coming off of antibiotics deal. She might want to go back and refer to; I guess not the previous episode but maybe the two before that where we talked a little bit about liver clearance of hormones and this whole sign of; you come off the pill and the acne comes back, that’s your sign that this is hormonal and I don’t know if hormonal testing would be useful, because it’s actually really hard to measure tissue levels of hormones. So you can glean some things from conventional tests that doctors will order, but I don’t know that you can learn everything unless there are some really wild imbalances going on.
But this is definitely something you want to look at supporting your liver, just supporting your overall metabolic function. Which a lot of people just think about metabolism as burning calories, but really it’s how every system in your body works for overall function. So I’d look at that.
Vitamin A can also be really, really, really important in dealing with the real severe acne. And one thing I might do if this was me is maybe I’d probably pull the fermented cod liver oil and the D3 and maybe just reevaluate what your fat soluble nutrient status might be, whether perhaps you're taking so much vitamin D that you’re competing with vitamin A, in which case that could be a little bit of an issue. Maybe something to deal with. I like cod liver oil especially through the winter. I’ve been using Rosita for a while instead of the fermented stuff. And I like it, but I think maybe just trying to really incorporate a ton of liver if you can; that’s probably what I would look at if it were me.
But if you feel like your current regimen of the cod liver oil, the zinc, and the D3 is serving you well, then go for it. I’ve just really moved away from D3 supplementation myself, and I look to getting things from food.
If you're in Denmark, I don’t really know what the vitamin D winter is there when you’re not able to actually get vitamin D from sun exposure. However, if you are native to Denmark; if you’re entire lineage is there, you might have a different vitamin D requirement that’s actually well suited for that environment. So, some of the genetic testing, like the 23 and Me, if you really want to get into that stuff, can give you a little bit better clue about what your body really needs. But in a lot of situations, these things are just environmental. Long term exposure to xenoextrogens, bad diet, family history, that type of thing. Those are my thoughts. Cool.
6. Atypical mole growth and removal [38:17]
Liz Wolfe: Alright, this next one is about moles; mole, mole. And I just want to kind of disclaim that I don’t have a whole lot of insight on this topic. I can kind of throw in a couple of things that I’ve thought about and that I’ve looked into over the years. But this is going to be probably a pretty long question and some pretty short answers, just to kind of disclaim that a little bit.
Alright, this one is from Anna Marie. “I’m a really freckly girl, and in the past 4 years after my brother was diagnosed with colon cancer pretty unexpectedly, I decided to start going to the dermatologist because skin cancer on my sensitive skin was one thing that always worried me. I think I probably picked the worst dermatologist in Cleveland; someone who had Botox signs and pamphlets absolutely everywhere, and only hired petite, beautiful assistants to make you feel like you needed all the treatments she could give to measure up to them.
I secretly wanted to give everyone there a” {laughs} “Kalteen bar and watch them blow up like Regina George.” {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing} Oh my god!
Liz Wolfe: “But for some reason I kept going. They kind of knew me, I thought, so it would be more of a hassle to change. Anyway, every time I went in there, they’d recommend removing 2-4 questionable moles, and she had me coming in every 3-6 months. It didn’t feel right to me to find and remove that many every single time I went, but based on what was going on in my family, I felt like it was better to be safe and aggressive than sorry. I would almost always get a call back after those removals saying that my miles were dysplastic.” My god, my punctuation is terrible. “Or atypical, so it was a good thing we took them off.
After four years of this, I went in for my last appointment at that office and had 3 more moles removed. I got a call after this removal and was told that 2 of the 3 were dysplastic/atypical, and that one of the three had had a moderate cell can, and one of the three had a several cell count. They wanted to go back in and take out more skin from around those moles to be safe. I did have a questioning thought at that time; it’s strange that after all these mole removals, these are the first two that have ever come back needing more work, but I didn’t think much of it at the time. I decided to get a second opinion before letting someone who I didn’t really trust hack further into my body. So I went to the biggest medical system in Cleveland for a second opinion. They agreed that both areas needed further removal. For one, because it was severe, and because for the second moderate one, because some pigment had begun to come back through the scarring. So I scheduled a surgery; I did that yesterday, and I currently have 7 stitches in my upper inner thigh area for the severe mole area, and a few more on my abdomen for the moderate mole area.
On top of this, this new dermatologist took a look at my records, and it showed that the first 15-plus moles that I got removed were tested by a general pathologist and not a dermatopathologist who specialized in skin pathology. So for all those moles I got removed over 4 years, I only got a report that said my moles were atypical; they did not report on mild, moderate, or severe cell counts, so I don’t know the severity of these moles and I feel like the money paid for 15-plus mole removals was a complete waste of time.
This new dermatologist is recommending that I get these specimens re-read by a dermatopathologist to see if we need to retest any areas of my skin where moles were removed and potentially take out more skin around those sites, if needed.
So I guess my questions are; one, do I need to keep doing this whole dermatology thing? I don’t subscribe to typical health care elsewhere, so is this one doctor that I’ve been seeing just because of the fear factor in my family. I see a chiropractor as my general practitioner; eat pretty clean, workout, and generally take care of myself otherwise and feel that’s doing what is needed to prevent cancer in my body.
Two; what do I do about these 15…” I’m just going to go through these one by one, I think that’s the way to go here. First I’ll read the additional information. “I did the college tanning bed thing for the better part of a year or two; stupid, I know. I played outdoor sports my whole life and ran track in college, so I spent a lot of time outdoors. I’ve definitely had some bad sunburns, as most fair-skinned and freckly people have, but now in my adult life I feel like I’m very careful about my sun exposure. I do tan somewhat, even with the freckles, so I typically use a 30 SPF sunscreen and enjoy a little tan glow in the summer.”
Something I think is really interesting here is this really bad mole was from where; inner upper thigh; is that what it said?
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, I think so.
Liz Wolfe: So it’s really interesting to me how so often we actually find these clumps of irregular cells in areas that do not receive regular sun exposure. So I’ve seen this quite a few times, including on myself, so it’s kind of interesting. I talk about it a little bit in Eat the Yolks in like the vitamin D/sunshine section where what we actually see in; I don’t want to say the preponderance of the literature because I don’t know that that’s true. Obviously the dermatologists are working from a good body of literature that they feel is hardy enough to make the diagnoses that they do, and use the procedures that they do. They’re doing that for a reason. But we do have some decent evidence that workers who work inside have a higher incidence of skin cancer than those who work outdoors. So there is something to sun exposure and skin health that I think we don’t talk about enough.
Again, I’m not a doctor, but as somebody who has been concerned about moles on my body who did a ton of tanning when I was younger, like indoor tanning beds, using the incorrect proportion of rays probably damaged my skin quite a bit, I understand the concern. So I’m just going to share some of the things that I’ve looked into for myself and some of the thoughts I’ve had about this, and the biggest struggle for me is I’m not sure that dermatology has; it’s kind of like just cancer treatment in general. I’m not sure that there’s a really good quality understanding that we’re working from in understanding the genesis of cancer, what’s actually going on metabolically, what’s actually going on in the skin.
I mean, to a degree we know this has to do with DNA damage and things like that. But there’s more there that maybe; this is kind of like drill and fill for the skin. It’s like; oh, we found something, hack it out, test it, that type of thing. Where there might be something deeper and more systemic that we could look at that would prevent these cells from becoming abnormal or that would maybe prevent them from getting more abnormal in the future. But I’m not confident enough in that to completely disregard modern dermatology and kind of that hack and test mindset. I just am not comfortable enough with it. I have actually a mole test coming up in a couple of weeks.
So, something that’s interesting and I don’t have a whole lot of literature to back it up. But folks know that I do; I follow a lot of people and a lot of different ends of the health and wellness spectrum because I just like to hear a lot of different perspectives. One of the podcasts I listen to is the Generative Energy podcast, and that is kind of a Ray Peat based, very non-paleo podcast. But I find it very interesting the things that they discuss about the metabolic origins of disease.
Recently in one of those podcasts, they were talking a little bit about moles. It was actually Ray Peat was a guest and he had talked about how he had used DHEA or progesterone kind of around the circumference of moles that were, I don’t know if it was actually malignant or they were not looking good, I don’t know. But rather than looking at a mole as a malignancy needing to be taken out, actually looking at that cluster of cells as possibly; this is not medical advice, this is just an interesting idea that I’m looking further into; looking at these clusters of moles as almost like a protective reaction to some kind of dysfunction going on, and actually kind of creating a border around them of substances that could be helpful.
And of course there’s nothing; you could do that, on the way leading into your dermatology appointments. You know what I mean? It’s not something that you have to replace the dermatology with, this kind of self-treatment. I would never recommend that. But I’m certainly going to do it with moles that I’m uncomfortable with just to see what happens. So that’s an episode you could look up the podcast, just to kind of see what Ray Peat has to say about it. It’s an interesting view.
And what it kind of drew up in my mind was this image that scientists have talked about in contextualizing obesity, looking at obesity, like super obesity, as actually a protective mechanism of the body. So we know that things like blood lipids, like triglycerides are really decent markers of something being wrong, while sometimes these super obese folks actually have very, what we would consider as good blood markers for health, and basically they’re body is adapting via super obesity to basically protect the actual functioning part of the body from all of these substances.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah; protecting the organs from failing.
Liz Wolfe: Yes. So it’s interesting. And I’ve no idea if that can be in some way twisted to be similar, like as an analogy to what’s going on with moles, but I do think we have kind of a limited understanding of what’s really going on. But cancer is so damn scary that we just want to get rid of it. We just want to cut it out. But he also talked about; Ray Peat also talked about tumors in some circumstances being protective. I don’t know; this is just something that I’m going to look into that I find as interesting just because I think our current body of knowledge in the conventional world is slightly lacking in some aspects.
So, she asks, “What do I do about these 15-plus moles that need to be re-read by a dermatopathologist? Some of these are going on 4 years old, should I be worried? Should I care to get them re-read?”
I don’t know, maybe I would. If I could afford it, I might. I used to be less that way, but now that I have a kid, I just am kind of like, “Give me all the tests! I want to know!” So cost permitting. Maybe get a couple done, see what they come back with, and then maybe you do a couple more.
Diane Sanfilippo: I mean, in terms of getting them all retested? Is it going to change the course of action?
Liz Wolfe: I mean, probably right? They’d go back to those spots and see.
Diane Sanfilippo: Maybe. But will those answers give you information that will, yeah, that will motivate a different course of action. Because obviously if those spots haven’t had specific types of cell regrowth, as she is describing with some of these other spots that they want to go back to, then perhaps your work there is done. I mean, I am definitely not a “let me dig for problems” kind of person. I’m not going to try and find problems where they don’t exist. I think that that’s maybe more excessive than we need to be.
Truthfully; I had a mole removed from my temple, just really for aesthetic reasons. I didn’t like it, it always bothered me, and I know they keep it. They just keep them indefinitely, so if you ever want to get it tested, you can. I would probably just deal with the two that you’re dealing with now and I probably would not dig on 15 moles that have been removed. I just think; I don’t know. They’re gone. {laughs} I don’t know; that’s probably, that’s me though.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah, I mean, just different reads on it. So the next one was, “Are there alternative treatments, oils, nutritional supplements, etc., that I should be doing to more naturally treat my skin overall in areas where moles have been removed?”
I would never suggest that you completely discard the dermatological point of view and that kind of upkeep, but if you want to one of the things that I do is I really like using coffee bean oil, frankincense, lavender, those types of things just as kind of daily spot treatments; why not? There is a supplement; well, I guess it’s not a supplement, I think it’s topical. You can use topical fat soluble vitamins on spots like this. There’s also something called MelaNon. I think you can get through ideallabsdc.com. I’ve used it a little bit; haven’t really seen anything happen. But again, it’s one of those things, you’re not at the dermatologist 3 times a day. You are at the site of your mole, {laughs} you know, many times per day. So coffee bean, caffeine in particular I think from the coffee bean oil, is really well absorbed and it’s also pretty well known for its ability to aid in DNA repair. So might as well do that.
And just overall keeping your overall metabolic function and state of health robust I think is what’s going to enable your body to deal with issues efficiently.
Diane Sanfilippo: I think that’s a really interesting idea about moles being a form of protection from something and just like any other sort of growth or as you even said; obviously a tumor is a collection of cancerous cells. Not an expert on the topic, but if you try and think about that; if you’re body is trying to mass them in one area versus have it be wide-spread throughout the body, that does seem, as twisted as that sounds, a bit like a protective mechanism. Like, “Let’s just keep you all right here” versus widespread, you know?
Liz Wolfe: Right.
Diane Sanfilippo: So I think that’s really interesting.
Liz Wolfe: But then what do we do with that information? I don’t know what we do with that information, you know. But it’s an interesting paradigm.
Diane Sanfilippo: And I don’t think she should feel badly for having removed 15 of them.
Liz Wolfe: No.
Diane Sanfilippo: I think there is something to be said for, you know; we know that modern medicine is supporting us in so many ways and we’re not here to shun that so don’t feel badly about the 15 that were removed, don’t feel like you did something wrong for removing them. It is better safe than sorry, and I don’t think there’s any harm done in removing those. You know what I mean?
Liz Wolfe: Yeah, I would have done the same thing.
Diane Sanfilippo: It’s fine; you're fine. Yeah, I would have too. For sure. No big deal. So she had a couple of notes here that I don’t think we read. She says, “Overall, I want to not care.” I don’t think you read that part.
Liz Wolfe: Oh, no. ok. “Overall, I want to not care and just go on believing that I’m doing all the things I need to to take care of myself. I honestly don’t have much faith in our medical system already, but it’s funny how it gets harder to be stubborn about their recommendations when something scarier like this happens.” Absolutely! That’s applicable to so many scenarios; I totally get it. It’s hard and it’s scary.
“As of right now, I’m planning on going back to that first dermatologist to say they should pay for those records to be re-read by a dermato…” Why am I having so many issues with this word? “Dermatopathologist so I can make an informed decision about where to go from here.”
Diane Sanfilippo: I think she hit the nail on the head though with it being scary. And unfortunately, typically when this stuff happens, it’s not like we’ve spent a year researching it ahead of time, you know?
Liz Wolfe: Right, yes.
Diane Sanfilippo: It’s like it pops up, we’re presented with an option; one seems like the right thing to do. You just can do the best you can, and I think following your gut instinct on it; like, if your gut instinct at the time said “get them removed”; it’s fine. You got them removed. No big deal. If your gut instinct right now says go back and have more removed and tested on the ones they want to test more on, if that’s what your gut tells you, do it. We don’t know, and I’m with you. I would rather be safe than sorry. I mean I just don’t think that having more of a mole removed; I don’t know that you’re going to say, you know, “I wish I hadn’t done that,” because, I don’t know. I mean, of course there can always be a complication or an infection, but I wouldn’t stress out too much and I wouldn’t let it scare you too much, honestly. I think that creates more stress around the whole situation.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah. Agreed.
Liz Wolfe: The Balanced Bites podcast is sponsored in part by the Nutritional Therapy Association. The NTA trains and certifies nutritional therapy practitioners and consultants, including me, I’m an NTP, emphasizing bio-individuality and the range of dietary strategies that support wellness. The NTA emphasizes local, whole, properly prepared nutrient dense foods as the key to restoring balance and enhancing the body’s ability to heal. Nutritional therapy practitioners and consultants learn a wide range of tools and techniques to assess and correct nutritional imbalances. To learn lots more about the nutritional therapy program, and apply for one of their new scholarships, go to http://www.NutritionalTherapy.com. There are workshop venues in the US, Canada, and Australia, so chances are you’ll be able to find a venue that works for you. The scholarship application window closes August 15th, so don’t wait.
7. #Treatyoself: Diane’s oven fries [55:43]
Liz Wolfe: Alright. How about a little treat yoself to lighten the mood?
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Should I do another one, since I’m on the treat yoself tip these days.
Liz Wolfe: Totally. I’ve got nothing; I’ve got Enjoy Life chocolate chips; I eat them by the handful. That’s about all I’ve got.
Diane Sanfilippo: No. Nobody is treating themselves to that. No.
Liz Wolfe: {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: Those are like; they’re like, I’m sorry, whatever, they’re the allergen free but I’ve had some other Pascha, you should look those up. They’re another really good allergen free chocolate chip, way better tasting. {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: Will do.
Diane Sanfilippo: Enjoy Life is the carob chip of allergen free; which carob chips when you were, well, at least when I was a kid in the early 80s, was like the hippie chocolate chips.
Liz Wolfe: Well I guess we don’t have to worry about them sponsoring the podcast.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} I guess not. So, alright treat yoself this week, if you haven’t already because Instagram is all freaking out about my oven fries, because I’m kind of addicted to oven fries. We basically just take some red potatoes, we slice them up. You can slice them thicker or thinner, whatever floats your boat. I’ve been seasoning them with the diner blend from Practical Paleo second edition, {laughs} which y’all don’t have yet. But you can use any of the spice blends from Practical Paleo, or just salt if you want to just use salt, and bake them at 375.
The way we do it is we; sorry, I toss it in some ghee or whatever kind of cooking fat you want to use, we bake them at 375 on parchment for about 20-25 minutes, then we take them off the parchment. Baking them on the parchment first actually sort of seals that starchiness of the potato off so that it doesn’t then stick to your pan, and it does help it brown. But then we take it off the parchment to just keep it browning even further, flip them over, second round about 10-15 more minutes. They kind of get puffed up and browned and they’re pretty ridiculous. So I’ve been really enjoying that; pretty straight up carb source. We don’t use a ton of fat on them when we bake them. Per sheet; so we’re talking regular cookie-sheet size. Per sheet we basically use about a teaspoon of cooking fat, which is not that much. Toss it and mix it really well.
So any who; we’ll probably get that one up on the blog soon. We do have a chip version of this recipe in Practical Paleo second edition where you’re slicing the potatoes pretty thinly and it’s pretty much the same recipe for the oven fries, you’re just going to obviously slice them a little bit thicker.
Liz Wolfe: I’m sorry, I was out in the kitchen making oven fries.
Diane Sanfilippo: That was it; we’re moving on to closing the show.
Liz Wolfe: Alright, that’s it for this week then. You can find me, Liz, at http://realfoodliz.com/ and you can find Diane at http://dianesanfilippo.com. Join our email lists please for free goodies and updates that you don’t find anywhere else on our website or on the podcast. While you’re on the internet, leave us an iTunes review. See you next week.