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You’re listening to the Balanced Bites podcast episode 259.
Welcome to the Balanced Bites podcast with Diane Sanfilippo and Liz Wolfe. Diane is a certified nutrition consultant, and the New York Times bestselling author of Practical Paleo, The 21-Day Sugar Detox, and co-author of Mediterranean Paleo Cooking. Liz is a nutritional therapy practitioner, and the best-selling author of Eat the Yolks and The Purely Primal Skincare Guide. Together, Diane and Liz answer your questions, interview leading health and wellness experts, and share their take on modern paleo living with their friendly and balanced approach. Remember our disclaimer: The materials and content within this podcast are intended as general information only, and are not to be considered a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.
Liz Wolfe: Hey everyone; hi Diane!
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Hey!
Liz Wolfe: I can see your beautiful face!
Diane Sanfilippo: That’s not debatable that you can see me; debatable how beautiful it’s looking right now.
Liz Wolfe: Not because we’re in the same room, but because we’re actually doing a video podcast today. Not for you guys; just for us! {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: It’s for everyone.
Liz Wolfe: Still audio for you. Alright, let’s hear a word from our sponsors.
Diane Sanfilippo: Oh; oh. You mean, they’re not going to see this; correct. No one is seeing this.
Liz Wolfe: Correct! Nobody gets to see us like this.
Diane Sanfilippo: I like your half bun, half ponytail though.
Liz Wolfe: It’s called a dewdrop.
Diane Sanfilippo: That’s what it’s called?!
Liz Wolfe: And it’s hanging on by a thread right now. Yeah; since middle school, hun.
Diane Sanfilippo: Alright.
Liz Wolfe: I like your side pony.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} It’s not a side pony.
Liz Wolfe: It looks like you have hair growing out of the bottom of your ear.
Diane Sanfilippo: It’s not a side pony, it’s just swished to the side.
Liz Wolfe: {laughs} Alright, so for realsies, let’s hear from one of our sponsors.
Liz Wolfe: The Balanced Bites podcast is sponsored in part by the Nutritional Therapy Association. The NTA trains and certifies nutritional therapy practitioners and consultants, including me, I’m an NTP, emphasizing bio-individuality and the range of dietary strategies that support wellness. The NTA emphasizes local, whole, properly prepared nutrient dense foods as the key to restoring balance and enhancing the body’s ability to heal. Nutritional therapy practitioners and consultants learn a wide range of tools and techniques to assess and correct nutritional imbalances. To learn lots more about the nutritional therapy program, go to http://www.NutritionalTherapy.com. There are workshop venues in the US, Canada, and Australia, so chances are you’ll be able to find a venue that works for you.
1. News and updates from Diane & Liz [2:43]
Liz Wolfe: Ok; Diane. What are your updates this week? What are your thousands; what is your litany of updates.
Diane Sanfilippo: Listen; I got a lot going on.
Liz Wolfe: Yes you do.
Diane Sanfilippo: Alright, so by the time this episode airs, Practical Paleo will be coming out in just a few days! So the book released September 6th officially. I think some of you guys listening might have a copy already, though, because it looks like Amazon was shipping it, but remember if you’re coming to a live event not to preorder on Amazon. Go ahead and get your copy at the store; support our stores who are hosting us. We want to say thank you to them, and that’s the way to make sure we’re going to be able to be hosted again in the future; ourselves and other similar authors, you know. If they have a successful event, of course they’ll be more willing.
So a little note on that; I would love to encourage all of you who are coming to a live event, if you would like any type of book, especially if you want the hardcover edition of Practical Paleo and if you want any other book; Fed and Fit, one of Juli’s books for some of the events she’ll be at; obviously Liz’s book. Any of these events that you’re coming to, call the store ahead of time; pretty much ASAP, because obviously some of the events are coming up really soon.
Call the store as soon as possible, and just reserve your copy. Some of them may allow you to prepay it, which will save you time at the store; some of them may not. But I’m having a few, we’ll just say issues, making sure the stores have enough copies for everyone, and this is the way to make sure you guarantee you have it. Especially, again, that hardcover edition, because the stores don’t quite understand that even though it’s a little bit more expensive it’s the one that you all are going to want more, and they’re just confused, and people don’t normally put out both a hardcover and a softcover of a book at the same time. Leave it to me to be crazy, but I know you guys are going to want that hardcover edition. I think it’s ridiculous, it’s so awesome. Like, holding it, it’s just a great book.
So anyway, call the store ahead of time. If they’re not sure what you’re talking about, make sure you just have the date and the details. We have emailed everybody who has already RSVP'd, but if you have not already RSVP'd to the event, the details are in the event listing as well as when you get a confirmation, we’re sending you some details on it. So anyway, you’ll have everything you need. The ISBN number, which is like the product number of the books, and phone number of the store and all of that. But yeah, so that’s it.
I just really want to make sure you guys don’t drive an hour, spend 2 hours to be with us, and don’t get what you want. But they’ll have it if you call and make sure they reserve it. And that was a tip that one of the stores did tell me; they were like, just have people call ahead. And I was like; oh yeah, I should do that.
Anywho, there’s that. So we’ll see you guys coming up here in San Francisco, Portland, Seattle, Tacoma, Sacramento, Phoenix, Kansas City, Denver, Boulder, Chicago, Paramus, New Jersey, and Austin, Texas. And a couple of heads up; heads’ up? Heads up? {laughs} Heads up notes on a few of these cities. I’m going to be doing some morning shows, so this is going to be interesting. I know I’ve got something in Portland; it’s actually a new show. I think it’s premiering this week, or next week, and then when I’m on it it’s like a pretty new show. I’m not sure the details of every show and all their names right off the top of my head right now, but we’ll make sure that we share that in my weekly emails so that if you guys are in those areas you can watch. So there’s one in Portland, one in Seattle, one in Phoenix, Kansas City, and Chicago, and I’ll let you guys know if there are others. So if you’re local in those areas, tune in in the mornings. We’ll let you know when it’s going to be.
I don’t know; this is crazy for me. This is a lot. Like, what? {laughs} I’m going to be on these morning shows. I don’t know. Cooking and figuring out how to get this food to the studio while I’m on tour; going to be interesting.
Liz Wolfe: It’s kind of fun. I believe the morning show in Kansas City here, Lauren Halifax, I believe she’s really into the grass-fed beef and the local farmer stuff.
Diane Sanfilippo: Cool.
Liz Wolfe: My local farmer actually hooked me up with her at one point.
Diane Sanfilippo: Oh.
Liz Wolfe: And I don’t know, I think that’s cool that they’re so open to this type of stuff. So I hope you have a good experience here!
Diane Sanfilippo: It should be good. I think I’m doing a burger in Kansas City. I was told, you know, grilling and meats and whatnot.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, that’ll be fun. So I think that was pretty much it on that. If you’re on Snapchat, we’ll probably have some fun Snapchat filters for the tour, so look out for those. And don’t forget to join me on Facebook live on Thursday. I think that’s pretty much it. We’re going to have some more news about the Master Class coming up soon, and I believe we’re actually going to have some special stuff for the folks who are at the events too regarding the Master Class. Maybe a little coupon code or something fun, so we’ll see.
Diane Sanfilippo: You are so on it, it’s stupid.
Diane Sanfilippo: I got a lot of people helping me. It’s not just me. Trust me. It’s certainly not just me. {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: It’s; what’s up… What? Now what’s funny?
Liz Wolfe: I’m just saying, fake it. I mean, even if it’s not just you, pretend it is.
Diane Sanfilippo: No! Because….
Liz Wolfe: No, you don’t know want to not give credit to people.
Diane Sanfilippo: That’s right.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: And I don’t want people to be deluded into thinking that all of the things that “I” do are possible for one person to do. They’re not.
Liz Wolfe: Well, just so you know, you’re the only person that doesn’t want to look like they’re doing it all by themselves. So kudos to you. {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: I just don’t think that that’s right. {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: Oh golly. Have you done an episode of the Badass Business podcast lately?
Diane Sanfilippo: No, not in a long time because, you know, I’ve had a few other things going on. {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: Yeah, a couple of things.
Diane Sanfilippo: No I haven’t done that.
Liz Wolfe: Well that could be a topic for one of them, is like no shame in having help. That’s just a theme in my life right now.
Diane Sanfilippo: I think I did. I think I did have an episode on that. I know I had an episode on hiring and who I hired when. And right now, there are 7 women who are on my team who, we have a call every Monday and there are 8 of us on that call. Not everyone works anywhere near close to full time, you know, and there’s still another probably at least 2 or 3 who are doing things, just little things here and there. I mean, yeah. It’s a lot.
Liz Wolfe: So question for you.
Diane Sanfilippo: Mm-hmm.
Liz Wolfe: Is there a particular reason that you have hired mostly women, or; I ask this because I’m actually having a lot of fun building a team. It’s different from the way you’re doing it, but with Beautycounter.
Diane Sanfilippo: Mm-hmm.
Liz Wolfe: It’s just fun to be able to mentor other women who are; and I don’t want to pigeonhole this by genitalia, but it does seem like women have fewer opportunities to work in a flexible way because they also have these responsibilities of home and family.
Diane Sanfilippo: Mm-hmm.
Liz Wolfe: And all of those things, where as I think just the social expectation for men is they go, work full time, come home, eat, go to sleep. No, not entirely that. Take care of kids, go to sleep. But I think it’s just been pretty cool to mentor women who are trying to do all of those things plus earn an income, so I was just curious as to whether you…
Diane Sanfilippo: That’s just really who has landed with me.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: Some of the women on my team are here because they reached out, and they were like; I mean, actually, I don’t know. Probably at least 3, I think at least 3 out of those women that I just mentioned emailed, and it was just the right time that I needed help and they kind of told me what they were good at. You know, easier for me than having to put out a call, for, you know, who we were looking for.
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: But yeah, that’s just really who’s gravitated towards the team, and not for any other reason. But I’m happy with it; I like it this way. And it’s good. No, but I do like; I like having a team of women. There are some men, not on the team, but who do some stuff with us. Like our web developer who helps us out with stuff is a dude, and some other folks.
Liz Wolfe: Cool.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. So what’s going on? What’s going on with you?
Liz Wolfe: I got my hair did.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: Finally.
Diane Sanfilippo: Created a stir on Instagram.
Liz Wolfe: Well I kind of thought people would be; so you know, I have this whole, I’ve finally narrowed it down to 3 words for my different foci; so food, beauty, and babies. Which is so all over the map it’s crazy, but at least I have one word for each thing. But the whole beauty thing, I’ve been doing that for at least 5, I think 4 or 5 years now, just kind of advocating for safer products, being conscious about what you put on your body the same way you are about what you put in your body. And I’ve been doing that for a while, and for a really, really, really long time I’ve just totally eschewed conventional hair dyes. I did henna for a really long time, and then I did Hair Print a couple of times.
And then finally I sent a text to my friend/stylist, Phoebe, who is the best. And I was like; I can’t do it anymore. It is so nice to have good looking hair, but I just can’t do it myself. There’s just too many issues with the Hair Print; I talked about it in a previous podcast. I mean, it’s a good product, but it just wasn’t for me. The time investment for henna is just beyond what I want to do, so I was like, can you help me. But I knew; knowing I was going to have to make this confessional to everybody on Instagram because I’ve been advocating a more natural, safer way of taking care of yourself and still feeling pulled together for so long, so I felt like I was going to have to go on there and be like, you guys, I’m so sorry, I completely betrayed you, I can’t do this anymore.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: But everyone was like; hell yeah! {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.
Liz Wolfe: Like, you have to go take care of yourself and feel good, or whatever. I mean, it’s not about the gray hair, it’s not about how I look or maybe it is and I’m just not thinking of it that way.
Diane Sanfilippo: It’s ok if it is, anyway.
Liz Wolfe: It’s just nice to have somebody work on you for a little bit.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. Well, I think also when we talk about natural or just different options for things, part of it too, what I see as our place, especially with the podcast is, look. If somebody is going through a health crash, for example, and they’re trying to get rid of as many toxic things in their lives as possible, we’re opening their eyes up to what’s out there. We’re sharing our experiences of using those things. But then we both have to pick our battles, and say this is something; neither of us, at least at this point in time, in a situation where we’re having a health crash and we need to strip it all down.
Or, where we’re in a major maybe discovery mode. You know, while you were doing lots of research about lots of different beauty things, it’s like; what are all the things I can do. And then it circles back to; ok, which ones do I want to do this way, and which ones am I comfortable with. Especially because I do think; I don’t know, I mean coloring your hair, it’s not an everyday thing so maybe it’s a pretty intense burden at the time, and I don’t know what’s happening from what’s deposited on the hair that then is causing exposures all the time, but you know, we just make different choices. I mean, I know in terms of what we put on our skin that’s sitting there and that’s staying there for the whole day, we just kind of make those choices.
I don’t think there’s any other way to be than to just be transparent about it. If people want to put us on this pedestal or in a bubble of; this is what I want and know and expect of them, then that’s not really our problem. That’s not my problem, for sure. And I think as long as we’re transparent about it and give our rationale, but right now it’s not a justification or, it’s not like, I don’t know. It’s not really like defending ourselves, it’s just, here’s the decision that I made, and I feel comfortable with it.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: And I think that’s fair, you know.
Liz Wolfe: I do think it was important that I said it.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.
Liz Wolfe: That I let people know, because I think people are looking to what I have done for what they might want to do. So I don’t know, it just feels weird to be like; Liz tries to advocate for these more natural ways of taking care of yourself and yet she goes and get’s her hair dyed. I mean, it wasn’t really about that, it’s just this stage of life, the amount of time I want to spend on it, and the fact that I wanted somebody else to do it for me.
Diane Sanfilippo: But all of that’s real, and all of that’s true.
Liz Wolfe: Yes.
Diane Sanfilippo: You know what I mean?
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: You spent the last 6 years doing all of the other things.
Liz Wolfe: It’s like, it’s growing. It’s like 4, 5, 6 years now. Now it’s 6 years. I spent the last 27 years dying my hair with henna.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing}
Liz Wolfe: Since I was 6 years old.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah; same thing with the nutrition, though. Like, eating certain things that are not paleo, and I’m sure folks who have listened to the show from the beginning are like, wow things are really different now. And I know that most of our listeners who we would probably say get it about the stuff that we’re doing, they appreciate that evolution, pun intended. You know; they appreciate the transparency, they appreciate the evolution. Because a lot of them are going through it in a similar way on a similar timeline where everybody becomes religious about certain things, or proselytizes paleo, and then gets rid of every other thing. I have to put on regular deodorant when I do a media appearance.
Liz Wolfe: {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: Like, if I’m going to be in front of people, not only will I pit and sweat through everything, I’m going to stink. And then I’m going to stink up clothes that I really don’t want to dry clean. Because who really wants to send a dress to get dry cleaned? And it doesn’t get rid of that stink anyway, because I’ve done it. I’ve sent in my clothes, and they come back and they just still stink. So there it is. I find a way to use it when I have to and not when I don’t and let’s move on because I’m not really going to stress about it.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: But I thought it was a good post, and you know I dye my hair with regular dye. I probably get it dyed twice a year or so, and moving on, you know.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah. Speaking of moving on.
Diane Sanfilippo: Speaking of moving on.
2. Response to a listener review on the podcast [17:42]
Liz Wolfe: To this next thing; so now that we’re like 15 minutes in, people who generally skip the first 10 minutes to get to the meat of things are now probably getting a little bit bored, but.
Diane Sanfilippo: Probably going to skip this part to! {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: You might want to go forward like another 5 minutes, because I have something to say, and I’m going to take a little time to say it. I wanted to talk a minute about a review that we got recently on the podcast. Our reviews are overwhelmingly positive, and we obviously ask for them and we appreciate people who take the time to leave reviews. But this recent one, it’s just been on my mind since I saw it, and I felt like probably the best way to shake it and just get it off my mind is to talk about it, so that’s what I’m going to do.
So, in case you didn’t know, we do read these reviews, and some of them do cut deep. I’m not great at just shaking things off, I’m better at it than I used to be but this one particular review really did, for me. I’ll go ahead and read it, because it’s a short one. If I can find it.
Alright. “Doesn’t everyone hear how bored Liz is with this podcast? It can’t just be me. Knowledge is there, but rounding in at 250-plus episodes, maybe this podcast has run its course. This show is 75% Diane rambling on,” {laughs} “and Liz chiming in here and there, pretending she’s listening. A lot of the time she just owns up to the fact that she’s doing something else entirely. I’d listen to a podcast that was Liz talking about parenting at this point, because that’s clearly what she should be talking about; time to replace Liz to get discussion going again.”
So. {laughs} I don’t; I wish that we could reply to these comments. While I don’t think this one was mean, necessarily, or even unfair necessarily, but I just want to take this review and maybe use it as an example of how you can say the same thing but maybe with more compassion. And I guess what that would require is, before you post something just think about what might be going on from other angles.
This whole year for me has really been a lesson in not always assuming the worst about people, and this comment kind of had me reflecting on that a little bit more. You probably have heard the quote, “Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.” When it came to this review, I just wanted to say, can I get a little bit more grace here? I know it was a long time ago that I had this baby, and people will say, “Oh the first month is hard; oh the first three months are hard.” And I’m like; are the first five years hard, because it’s not getting any less hard for me. So maybe it’s time for me to stop asking for grace, I don’t know, but I personally don’t think it is.
So maybe then rather; I don’t know. Instead of assuming that I’m bored, maybe be curious about whether I’m just figuring out how to balance full time motherhood and finding the childcare and the location and the nonfarm-ternet internet and the time to record these podcasts while being eternally grateful to Diane for picking up some of the slack on answering some of the questions that we get.
Maybe Diane is actually being forced to ramble; I mean, whether you ramble or not is debatable. But maybe you’re being forced to ramble if you are, because I want to be there, and I want to take part in the podcast. It’s been really important in my life. But I can’t {laughs} I just can’t always show up in full force. That’s just the long and short of it at this point. But I can show up, and if I’ve learned anything in motherhood or from Keanu Reeves, or whatever, it’s that “you can really blow people away with your ability to show up.”
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Who is that?
Liz Wolfe: That might be too obscure. It’s some baseball movie with Keanu Reeves. Anyway. So, still. I personally feel like I ramble plenty, and I am not bored.
Diane Sanfilippo: I feel like you ramble plenty, by the way.
Liz Wolfe: Thank you! I am; but I’m not bored. All caps that. I AM NOT BORED. And I’m sad that it comes off that way, but the truth is that I really am just stretched thinner mentally than ever before in my entire life, and more than I ever thought I could be and still be living. I feel like I’ve been honest several times about my mind wandering; that’s, and that’s not meant to be an affront to anyone who listens. I mean, a few times I’ve heard my kid crying in the other room, and had just a moment of concern and break in focus. Literally, there’s a hormonal response to children crying that I can’t turn off. I cannot wear enough; I could bury myself in blankets and wear 6 pairs of headphones, noise-canceling headphones and I’d still hear it. And I just don’t think anybody can blame me for that; I don’t think most people are blaming me for that.
Does Scott bleep stuff out on this podcast, Diane? Do we just do those little beeps? Can I say a swear word, or no?
Diane Sanfilippo: You can say whatever you want.
Liz Wolfe: Alright. Can I just get a {boing} break my first few years of parenthood? It’s just so sad to see someone feeling like I need to move on from my podcast. I mean, it’s our podcast, but still.
Diane Sanfilippo: I invite that listener to move on.
Liz Wolfe: True.
Diane Sanfilippo: If you're not enjoying it and you can’t have a little bit of compassion, and understand. And you know, I’ll say this too; if there is a moment where you’re not listening because there’s something going on, I don’t take it personally.
Liz Wolfe: Thank you.
Diane Sanfilippo: I’m talking to the listeners; I’m not really talking to you. {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: Right.
Diane Sanfilippo: Sometimes, obviously, we have some back and forth and we are speaking to one another, but you know, I’m mostly speaking to you the listener. I’m not talking to Liz here. So if for some reason something happens; I mean, it happens to me too. Someone rings the doorbell, or the dog is doing something.
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: This is not, you know, CBS radio. This is the Balanced Bites podcast.
Liz Wolfe: {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: We are in our homes, recording this stuff, and you know I think that’s kind of the upside. Most of our listeners get it. I would love for this to be super high end production; it’s not the reality. We can’t do it. We’ve got lives, we’ve got a lot of other things going on, and lots of folks who have podcasts that are done that way, they have different scenarios. And good for them, and I listen to those shows, too, and it is really different. We don’t take sponsors that are random products just because they’ll throw money at us to be able to then pay for more production value. We invite certain sponsors whose products we love and want to promote, and we don’t even make money on the podcast, it’s not that.
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: We literally; it pays for itself through the support of sponsorship, but that basically doesn’t even account for paying for the time that Liz and I spend. That’s literally the rest of the production of the show, getting done. There’s a lot that needs to happen. So anyway.
Liz Wolfe: Not even complaining about that, you know. We love doing this.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.
Liz Wolfe: But the suggestion that I peace out because my life got real just is kind of hurtful to me, you know.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. I think it’s insensitive and I think it lacks compassion, and I honestly am like; so don’t listen. You know? I’m not interested in having another co-host.
Liz Wolfe: People are getting their resumes ready; they’re like, is Liz leaving?
Diane Sanfilippo: I’m like, no. This is my {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: I can sit and be bored.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing} That’s they’re thought; I can listen to Diane ramble. No, I’m really not interested in that. And you know, we bring guests on, but invariably we know that you guys like the episodes more where it’s both Liz and I on the episode, so we do everything we possibly can to make it episodes where it’s the two of us and then sometimes there are things that happen, and I’m going to be on the road so Liz is going to have a guest coming up, and that’s life. That’s what we need to do. But the show goes on and we love doing it.
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: I think our podcast listeners are probably some of our most, if not our most beloved readers and fans and whatnot because as much as you guys feel like you know us and you’ve been with us all this time, we feel the same way. We know that you guys do know us, and we do these little updates in the beginning about random stuff in our lives because we want you to know what’s real. You know? I can’t stand just a curation of Instagram and all that stuff and just the rudeness that comes across from some people in it because they just don’t really know you at all, which is why I like doing things like Snapchat. I’m like, this is me. You know? Anyway.
Liz Wolfe: Alright. So on the note of being real; maybe this commenter is right in saying that I should talk parenthood more. I’ve kind of felt an obligation to not become all baby all the time, because that’s not the premise that we set in the first years of the podcast so I think I’ve kind of felt an obligation to stay somewhat consistent and not sudden be like doing the equivalent of posting potty training pictures with this podcast by talking about it constantly. I always hate when sitcoms evolve and characters get married and have babies, like Nick and Jess should have just stayed friends, and Rachel and Ross should never have had a baby, and everybody should have stayed single and kept their original hair and not changed.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing}
Liz Wolfe: I just hate change, and really maybe it’s a shocker but parenthood is not all I want to talk about, even though it’s probably what I’m best at talking about right now because that’s what I’m consumed with thinking about right now. But then again, my life has changed enough! Can’t I have one place where I try to pretend it’s not all about diapers and poop and rashes and fear and having my needs matter exactly 0%? I don’t know, I feel like I’m just trying to figure out who to be here without totally crippling myself with guilt every time I do something other than mothering or every time I opt to spend time with my daughter instead of fulfilling work obligations to the fullest degree humanly possible I feel like I used to do or at least I used to do a little bit more. It’s just hard. It’s such a struggle.
And I feel like I’ve been somewhat open with that, trying to be cognizant of not appearing like I’m complaining all the time. I don’t want to harp on it, but maybe I do need to be more open about it, that it is a struggle for me. I’m not that person that’s like, “Oh god I’ve dreamed of this baby my whole life and it’s bliss!” it’s a struggle. Unlike any I’ve ever taken on my whole life, and I have a relatively easy life compared to other people who are trying to do the same thing. So when I say that I’m trying to figure out who to be, I mean; am I working mom? Should I even try to be a working mom and fit it all in when it makes me a worse, less present mother when I’m with my kid? Not to mention an apparently noticeable worse podcast co-host. If I don’t work, should I work? There are just so many moms who would love to stay home with their kids if they had the opportunity. Well, I guess I pretty much have the opportunity, that’s what I’m doing, so shouldn’t I take it and give up everything else? Just looking for that balance.
So anyway, I just really hope that this commenter, and anyone else who might feel that way, can maybe offer me some grace and some understanding and maybe reframe any irritation or annoyance you have to a deeper exercise in understanding. Nobody owes me that, but I’d still like to ask for it. The end.
Diane Sanfilippo: I think that’s a good lesson for just life in general.
Liz Wolfe: I think it is too.
Diane Sanfilippo: Ok so, practical application from this comment. We might actually have a segment where it’s like, “Liz’s parenthood corner” and you want to talk about that, I think it’s totally relevant to our listeners. We’ve got lots of young women listeners, we’ve got lots of mom listeners, and I think that’s fair. We’ve had skincare tips, we’ve had my cooking tips, and things that we’re into and good at, and I think that’s a good natural evolution of being able to talk about that stuff. Sometimes it’s just about framing it differently. Sometimes it’s just about us saying; here’s what we’re going to talk about. And then, you know, moving on in that way.
Liz Wolfe: And we give time stamps.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.
Liz Wolfe: People can skip stuff they want to.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. Skip ahead. Alright.
3. Shout out: Meg the Midwife [29:59]
Liz Wolfe: Ok. So we’ll do a quick shout out and then move on, since we’ve eaten up half the podcast.
Diane Sanfilippo: We’re pissing off everybody now.
Liz Wolfe: I know. Nobody listen to that. Nobody even heard it! Alright, so Meg the Midwife, my partner in Baby Making and Beyond, she’s going to come on the show pretty soon. We’re recording this week; I’m not sure when it will air, but be on the lookout for that. Speaking of parenthood, we’re doing a whole episode dedicated to the fertility/pregnancy/baby stuff.
Diane Sanfilippo: Cool.
Diane Sanfilippo: Pete’s Paleo has opened a new location on the East Coast. Since they’re still operating out of San Diego, as well; this means local produce and meat coming from both coasts. And drastically reduced shipping prices. Check out their new and improved website, www.PetesPaleo.com to take advantage of low shipping rates; and be sure to use coupon code 1FREEBACON. That’s the number 1; free bacon, and receive a free half pound of bacon with the purchase of a meal plan. Go to www.PetesPaleo.com.
4. Listener comments on vegan versus paleo [31:01]
Liz Wolfe: Alright, today’s topic we’re going to do some follow-up to the vegan versus paleo episode. That was quite a hit, I would say.
Diane Sanfilippo: Mm-hmm.
Liz Wolfe: Alright, this comment is from Caroline. “I really needed to listen to this episode. I’ve struggled with these thoughts after seeing what others do; thanks Instagram. But ultimately it helped me to self reflect to see that what works for me is a balanced approach to paleo knowing that I don’t have to be perfect but I can base myself off that template. I love protein and just cannot fathom a life without it. I love your views, and I find myself talking back to what you say and nodding consistently during an episode. Thanks ladies!”
Diane Sanfilippo: Alright, we had another one from Suzanna. She says, “I’m so glad you guys covered this topic again. My personal and measurable case study of lingering nutrient deficiency is following 10 years of vegetarianism and 3 years of raw veganism, I got 12 cavities in a 2-year period. I had never had a single cavity before. The muscle loss, ADD, anxiety, and decrease in libido caused by my raw veganism were also apparent when I switched to paleo.” I mean, I guess she recovered {laughs} on some of that.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah. Sometimes you don’t know how bad it’s gotten until you see the other side.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, totally.
Liz Wolfe: Alright, this one from Elizabeth. “I absolutely loved this episode, ladies. I often feel torn between the two worlds jargon myself, as I study holistic nutrition, and feel at ease knowing I can made non-dogmatic decisions every day, engage how I feel, and completely try something new the next if I’m not feeling right. However, I can say that I dabbled in veganism about 5 years ago when my mom adopted it as a way to prevent cancer recurrence. I did it to support her, eating vegan when it was convenient and not sweating it when it wasn’t. At the time, I lived a low stress lifestyle but I still had issues that would crop up and I would not gain muscle for the life of me. Hello, skinny-fat. To most, I ‘looked amazing’, but I was still tired and thinking about food all the time.
Then I started a new job, and my stress went from 2 to 10 and veganism was making things worse. My body became depleted quickly, which led to hormonal imbalance, exhaustion, and dissatisfaction with everything. I immediately added in more fat and protein to balance blood sugar and get myself back to feeling ok; a few months later going completely grain free while still eating tons of plant foods, but good animal foods too. And you know what? Little by little, things got better. The type of life you lead can definitely change your personal outcome on any type of diet, and things that work for a time do not always work forever. Life changes, and so do our bodies; so do our rates of depletion, and so do our needs. Accepting this is so important to giving up the diet mentality I think, and believing in yourself in what your body is telling you. As Liz and Diane always say, “Let go of the dogma, people.
PS, my mom did get cancer again, even after being 5 years vegan. I do not blame the veganism, as there are so many factors at play, but I do wonder; what if the emphasis had been about understanding hormones and balancing blood sugar, the liver, and other detoxification systems in the body, and emotional stability and deep relationships that allowed her to share her innermost thoughts. Where would we be today if that was the focus instead of a dogmatic, “cure-all diet” that she has held onto. She’s still vegan today, and she mentions it to me in a teasing fashion, but she also knows it’s not a cure for her. The most important thing for her today is positivity and to have the energy to power on, and that is the support I will give her no matter if she wants to stay vegan or not.” Cool.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, that was a really good response. There’s also an article that I believe I originally saw shared from Robb Wolf from PBS, and it’s entitled, “Going vegan isn’t the most sustainable option for humanity,” So it was kind of just on the heels of our episode, and obviously this topic is always swirling around. We were focused more on some of the health issues, the personal health issues that can arise with it. But this is really talking about the sustainability of it for all of us. So we’ll link to that in our show notes if you’re interested in that article.
5. Eczema and PMS help [35:06]
Liz Wolfe: Alright, so we have a little bit of time left for questions. {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: Alright. This one is from Amanda. “Hi Liz and Diane. Thank you for all your efforts that you put into your work. It’s so important, and it’s changing lives around the world. I’ve been on a 5-year journey of really taking my health seriously by adopting the paleo lifestyle. My overall health has improved immensely and I’m healthier than ever before. I’m now 24 years old, 140, and 5’9”. The two areas of my health that have still remained difficult for me are my moderate to severe eczema, while also dealing with pretty miserable PMS; intense emotional responses to anything, painful cramping the first few day. For the eczema I’ve tried some essential oils; no gluten, no dairy, no sugar, steroid creams in the past, and the only thing that started to help with the eczema was MSM supplements, only for flare-ups. I still had dry itchy skin, but not inflamed, red, and oozing. For PMS I’ve taken turmeric supplements irregularly, PMS holistic tablets from Sprouts, essential oils, and counseling, which was the most helpful thing. But I still feel like there’s a hormone imbalance once a month. I was looking through the archives and found some mention of guests on your show who no longer deal with PMS; is that really a thing? Could there be hope for a girl like me? I’m totally willing to try anything to make necessary adjustments; anything.”
We have some information on the food: “Breakfast is usually organic omega-3 enriched eggs with organic kale, tomato, sauerkraut, two slices of gluten free toast with grass-fed butter. I just started doing a shot of kefir in the morning with some green tea when I arrive at work. For lunch, some kind of paleo protein and veggie skillet meal with side of rice and fruit. Dinner is very similar, but I try to only do grains, like rice or oats or even corn tortillas once a day. I don’t currently have a regular workout routine, and I have a regular sleep schedule of 8 hours a night.”
Let’s see. “It’s recently come to my attention that I’m a closet,” oh, this is kind of from the extra section, just for fun. “I’m a closet nerd, and I’ve recently tried playing Dungeons and Dragons; don’t judge!” {laughs} “With my boyfriend, and it was surprisingly super fun. It made for a magical experience when I binge watched the new Netflix series, “Stranger Things.” So good!”
I have some thoughts; do you have some thoughts?
Diane Sanfilippo: Not really, I was going to say we can link to details on MSM if you have any other details that you want to link to. Methylsulfonylmethane. I’m trying to make sure I’m pronouncing it right. But that was what she was abbreviating there.
Liz Wolfe: I feel like; this is funny. I feel like 3 years ago we would have really just focused on the nitty gritty of how she could edit her food intake, you know?
Diane Sanfilippo: Mm-hmm.
Liz Wolfe: Like I feel like we would have been like; “Hmmm, take out the gluten free bread. Mmm, don’t have ice cream once a month.”
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: But for me, I think now understanding things from a more literally holistic perspective, a much broader, bigger picture, I think these types of things require; specifically PMS. Like, yeah, number one it’s totally possible. There’s totally hope for a girl like you. But there are so many different things factoring into it, and it’s quite interesting, actually, that she talked about counseling being the most helpful thing. I don’t know if counseling reduced her pain or actually just gave her tools to deal with pain, but what that made me think about was an episode of the Katy Says podcast. I think it was called Movement, period. So look that up, because they actually talk about a question from someone talking about the deep emotional, I don’t know, release that comes with some of the actual muscle release. Which is really interesting to me, and it’s not the first time I’ve heard about that.
So really what I can do here is just refer this person out. Look at alignment monkey; just Google alignment monkey, I think it’s nuturance.net or alignmentmonkey.com. Those both should take you to the same place. Barbara Loomis is the woman behind that website, and I actually was able to have an appointment with her when I was in Portland, and one of the things she talked about with me was kind of the deep, emotional release that can be associated with releasing tension in different parts of the body. And that really, for me, was too tall of an order at the time because I have a lot of things that I’m kind of having to deal with kind of piece by piece associated with the birth of my daughter and things like that that I don’t think my body is quite ready to release, just yet, but I do believe that that tension is; it’s palpable; like, in my uterus. It’s very, very strange, and it probably sounds woo and something that some professionals would dismiss but I think this is totally a thing. I think emotional release and stress release can really go a long way in helping with PMS; while at the same time, liver support, making sure your detoxification pathways are working properly and efficiently, which we’ve talked about in some previous episodes, as well.
I personally don’t think turmeric supplements are all that important. I know people look at them as kind of a cure-all but I’m a little bit skeptical of them. I think it’s more important that we get the hormetic effect from different foods via the actual whole foods, and I think turmeric supplements are usually not just powdered turmeric; I think they’re often isolated components of turmeric, like curcumin. So I don’t know that that’s necessarily really important in this case, but it’s cool. Use the essential oils, look into the Movement, Period podcast, look at Barbara Loomis’ stuff on the uterus. Learn a little bit more about yourself biomechanically, which I think should probably really help with any pelvic congestion that could be factoring into this; and I think that’s all I had to say about PMS. Do you have anything to add to that Diane?
Diane Sanfilippo: I do not.
Liz Wolfe: {laughs} No I do not.
Diane Sanfilippo: No, I don’t think so. I mean, ok maybe I do have one thing. When you were talking about the physical release, I think a lot of people don’t realize that leaky gut is heavily encouraged, promoted, influence by physical stress, and emotional stress can lead to that physical stress, and that can be promoting leaky gut. There are so many people who find ways to relief stress, and you know, it’s as miraculous, perhaps, sometimes just changing their food becomes. People go paleo, and no longer have the eczema, for example, for some people; and for some people, it’s finding a way to get that stress response to slow down or stop happening, and healing can follow that.
Liz Wolfe: Ok.
Diane Sanfilippo: It’s huge, you know.
Liz Wolfe: Yes; a distinction just popped up in my mind that I don’t know if I’ve ever made before. I’ve never made this connection before. We talk about chronic stress a lot, and how to alleviate that and I think that’s almost the easiest type of stress to recognize at this point, because we harp on it so much. Like, your job, your life, those things that bother you day in and day out. But I also think people need to recognize that brief trauma, like birth trauma, or a traumatic incident when you were a child, or a traumatic accident. Any kind of trauma that you can say, you know, had a beginning and an end that you are holding you hold that in your mind and you also hold that in your body. So held trauma might; that particular moment of trauma might feel like it was an acute stressor, but the held trauma becomes a chronic stressor.
Diane Sanfilippo: 100%.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: I mean, there are so many practitioners who do work with that type of thing, and I believe in that 100%. I mean, I know people who also sort of have delayed response stress, you know?
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: We’ve talked about this; I actually think it’s another question we have here. Oh, like the next question is about hair loss; I mean, we’re going to talk about some other things related to it, but I’ve seen hair loss as a response to major trauma and stress so many times, when we can’t figure out what’s going on, and it ends up being, this is your body’s way of dealing with hair as a non-critical for life element, and that’s your body’s way of just dealing with it. It’s not supporting hair growth anymore. So yeah, I think that we’re just really quick to write off the physical effects of those stressors.
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: Or we just ignore them because we’re really good at coping, sometimes. I’m totally that kind of person, too, you know?
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: Recognizing the real physical impact of our choices and the way that we hold stress. And when I say choices, it’s also, you know, whether we choose to deal with the emotional traumas or not. Anyway.
Liz Wolfe: And I wanted to, as far as the eczema goes; if it’s getting better, that’s great. Maybe just continue pressing on. You might try light therapy, that might be something to look into. And some tallow balm. I mean, sometimes it just takes a while and you have to get things balanced out; hormones as well. But if you had dealt with moderate to severe eczema, I think light therapy might be worth looking into. Cool. Cool, cool, cool.
6. Hair loss help [45:07]
Liz Wolfe: Here’s the next one. “Hi ladies. First I’d like to say how much I love your podcast. Liz, I love your random comments, especially your references to Full House. I started watching Odd Mom Out since you both mentioned how great it is, and so far I’m loving it. My question is about hair loss. As long as I can remember, my hair has been falling out, more than the usual other women tend to experience. My hair is fine and I highlight it regularly. When I was younger, college days, I would straighten it almost daily, which I have stopped and I try not to apply too much heat to it now. I still highlight my hair, but I’m considering stopping it to see if perhaps that will help. Lately, my hair has been getting worse and worse. I’ve been trying to grow it out; it’s a little past my shoulders now, but the hair strands falling out is driving me nuts. I always wear my hair up since otherwise I have to deal with loose strands all over my clothes and floor. The strange thing is, my nails are quite strong, so I’m not sure if it’s necessarily a nutrient deficiency. I’ve been under quite a bit of stress this past year, however this has always been a problem, it’s just gotten worse now. I use conventional shampoo and conditioner, but the better kind that is paraben and sulfate free, etc.
My question is, is there anything I can do to help fix this, or is there an underlying issue at work. I workout 5 to 6 times a week, 2-3 30-minute high intensity interval training sessions, 2-3 barre and Pilates, I take regular walks. Sleep is around 7-8 hours a night. I eat paleoish; recently been buying more organic and cage free eggs, yogurt, and meat. Usually I have either a smoothie with grass-fed peptides for breakfast or kale and eggs. Lunch is usually sautéed veggies with meat; dinner varies. I do have the various cookies, donut here and again, especially at work when people bring in treats.” Ok.
Diane Sanfilippo: Do you have some notes on this one first, or?
Liz Wolfe: Yes. Just a couple.
Diane Sanfilippo: Ok.
Liz Wolfe: This might also be another; if we’re just talking about the scalp; I’m guessing, Diane that you’re going to go into the more systemic important stuff that you were just talking about. But if we’re just talking about the scalp, you might want to look into; this is another actual case for looking into red light therapy. You could also look at a guy named Danny Roddy, who actually is basically kind of started out on his nutrition/therapeutic journey of discovery because of hair loss, and he does talk about female hair loss as well. Maybe more female pattern baldness, I’m not sure; but hey, might be worth a Google.
And then looking at the website skinactives.com, they’re not perfectly free of all questionable ingredients, but it is a very science based website. I really respect the guy behind it. And he formulates products using KGF, which is keratinocyte growth factor, I believe, and I think he uses that in some hair regrowth products for the lashes, the brows, and your head. So if we’re just talking about the scalp and reactivating something maybe that’s sluggish, those resources might be interesting to check out. The end.
Diane Sanfilippo: So, alright. I mean, this is kind of what I was touching on in the previous question, when it comes to some of the systemic issues, because she, her name Edith. So she said this is as long as she can remember, and she doesn’t highlight her hair anymore, but it’s getting worse. I think; so you know, I know some other folks who have a really similar issue where when they were younger their hair was definitely more abundant, and it’s just kind of thin and it’s just kind of scalp is showing and they try not to mess with it too much because it’s really just not growing in, it’s not there. But it’s not necessarily; I don’t know if it’s necessarily balding, either. It’s not like clumps of bald spots, it’s not necessarily alopecia, it’s just this really think representation, you know, not a lot of scalp coverage and all that.
So I’m kind of getting the sense that that’s what she’s talking about here, and I honestly do think that this comes back to; I don’t know what she looks like. I would love to see a picture; a picture is worth 1000 words. And it’s not about a judgment, it’s about getting a sense of who is this person and how does she handle stress emotionally. Maybe I’m totally off with this, I would guess that she tends to be one of those people who is on the more anxious side and more high strung and pulls and holds in a lot of stress internally, because it just seems like this is who ends up having this kind of thinner hair response.
I think most of this work would need to be emotional work, and I do think that it’s going to take time to recover it. But I think working on some of the practical stuff that you were talking about is totally a valid idea. Do that in conjunction with going to see someone; a therapist or someone to work through some of the emotional stuff, because I think when we assume that we only need that type of support for something that is big and traumatic and specific, then I think we neglect the fact that our emotions need a caretaker sometimes, and we need to be able to work through some of that stuff.
So, you know, a lot of assumptions being made here because we can only read what’s here and then I have to read between the lines a bit. But I just get the sense when I hear this. So really curious; really curious about her constitution. If she’s got kind of like a little bit of a weaker constitution in general; typically if it’s a person who is a bit more robust and then this happens in an acute way, it is a response to one major traumatic stressor, or it could be an autoimmune response that kicks on, you know, an alopecia response. But I’ve known also women who’ve dealt with it in that regard, and their hair itself, when it’s there, it’s not what she’s describing here. It’s much thicker and more abundant, it’s just that they have that acute response.
Anyway, I just want to shine the light on the fact that I think there’s always something we can do from the physical side in terms of topicals and all of that, or supplements. But I think if we recognize that a lot of times it is something; it’s not like, oh this is just how I am, I do think that there’s something to it. I think there’s something worth looking at there, emotionally. So yeah.
7. Acid reflux [52:04]<>/b
Liz Wolfe: Very good. Alright, this one is from Torrie about acid reflux. “I’ve recently discovered that I have acid reflux and was started on a PPI. I don’t like taking medications if I don’t have to, because I know they always have side effects. I’ve been reading more about acid reflux, and have found that it may be that I have low stomach acid. I would agree that I have a lot of these symptoms. What are some natural ways to help with low stomach acid? I’m willing to cut back on animal products and drink some apple cider vinegar, but not sure what else to do. To be really honest, I haven’t been eating very well as of late. I have a husband that’s picky to feed and needs a lot of calories. It’s easier to go out to eat with him or cook something quick and caloric. We don’t eat much of a paleo diet anymore. Willing to try it again if it will make me feel better, but I’m worried about too much animal products hurting my stomach more. I do workout often. I run, do Crossfit, and occasionally yoga. I would say I don’t always get a full night’s sleep, and I stay pretty stressed. I’m not mostly paleo at all right now, eating gluten and dairy daily. Sorry!” {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Ok, a few things here. This is kind of a taking back to basics sort of question; we’ve talked about this a lot and I cover this in pretty great detail in Practical Paleo, so Torrie if you have a copy of the book and you haven’t looked at it recently, let’s go back and read it or grab the updated second edition and read about how your digestive system is supposed to work. The entire chapter on digestion will really help you to understand this a bit better. But there are a few things going into this.
So number one, when you’re talking about being stressed, that’s the first; the first difficulty in digestion, the first place that’s going to impact your stomach acid production is your stress level. And, ok, so maybe starting tomorrow you can’t get rid of all the stress in your life. But one thing you can do is take your meal times to be a time when you sit down, do some breathing beforehand, and think to yourself, logically and intellectually, that you need to be in rest and digest mode when you eat.
A lot of us can feel what it’s like to either; you know, sometimes if we eat too late this happens, or if we’re just too stressed hours later you can kind of feel the meal still sitting there, and that’s often because you just did not have the digestive fire to get that going. Meaning, your stomach acid probably wasn’t present enough. You either weren’t in rest and digest mode, or you ate too fast or too much. So in this case, sitting down, doing some breathing, really getting yourself into rest and digest mode as much as possible, and recognizing the difference in how it feels to have that sort of anxious, I don’t know, I call it a high vibration energy as you sit down to eat versus, you know; I’m calm and I’m present and I’m focused.
One thing you might be able to check out; my friend Robyn Youkilis who wrote Go With Your Gut, we had her on the show several months ago when her book came out. She has a chewing challenge, and that might really help you, because not only does that force you sort of into rest and digest, but the next thing I was going to mention is chewing. Chewing you food really well does help your body to recognize that food is coming; it upregulates stomach acid production in a good way. What she’s describing; not having enough stomach acid, not eating animal protein is not going to help that. So cutting out the animal protein or not eating it at all is not going to help stomach acid production, and often times when you’ve cut back on animal products for a while, the stomach acid production can be less.
I did put into the new edition of Practical Paleo a 4 week sort of process for going from a vegetarian or vegan to paleo, and talking about how to introduce more broth and then well cooked meats and things like that to get your body used to eating animal proteins again. Liz and I have talked about doing some hydrochloric acid supplementation here and there in order to get your body naturally responding and producing that stuff a bit better, and that might be able to help as well.
When it comes to the gluten and dairy; so, to Liz’s point just a few minutes ago how really we’re not quite as strict as we used to be about all of that stuff. I do know for a fact that there are elements of that that are going to promote indigestion, acid reflux, if you’re not tolerant to those foods. So if you’re eating it daily, why don’t you; what are your priorities? You know what I mean? If you’re priority is to get this acid reflux under control, which it should be, try getting rid of the gluten for a week of two. See if that helps. This is where the removal and the reintroduction; you’ve been reintroducing these foods now for a period of time and now you’re realizing again what some of the problems might be for you. So maybe pull that back out again and see if that helps or not. Maybe it doesn’t help, and if it doesn’t then there’s your answer. But if it does, I think that’s information that’s worth having. Just kind of covering our eyes and plugging our ears and singing la-la-la, whatever, I know about this paleo thing, but I don’t care anymore. Well, there are reasons why people are eating this way; it works and it heals a lot of things. So I think that would be worthwhile to test that out again.
But the whole chapter on digestion in the book will take you through a lot of this stuff again. We’ve also covered acid reflux on the show, probably several times before, so if you head over to http://blog.balancedbites.com and look at the archives by topic, or just search, you know, stomach acid on the website you’ll see I have a whole post on stomach acid, all kinds of other tips there. But you know, I think a lot of this too is about getting back home {laughs}. Cooking your food, slowing down, you know. She’s saying she’s not been eating that well, they’ve been going out to eat a lot, and I think that tends to be; there are a lot of factors feeding into that. We’re trying to move too quickly, we’re outsourcing the responsibility of our health when we’re not eating at home, and you know, I’d pull all of that stuff back.
Because she’s kind of got every possible thing that can feed into acid reflux, she’s listing out here. So, tackle one thing at a time, chewing and calming down first is a really good place to start.
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8. #Treatyoself: Everything is going to be ok [59:12]
Liz Wolfe: Alright. Do you have a treat yoself today, Diane?
Diane Sanfilippo: I mean, on the heels of what you were talking about with getting your “hur did” {laughs} getting your hair done, gel manis; I mean, I get a gel manicure. And look it’s all going to be ok if I’m going to rot because I get them, I’ll deal with it. Look, I think our treat yoself this week is just do what you’re going to do, and make your choice, and if you want to treat yoself to something that’s not perfectly paleo, then go on with yourself. It’s ok. Everything is going to be ok. {laughs} That’s it.
Liz Wolfe: Alright, well that’s it for this week. You can find me, Liz, at http://realfoodliz.com/ and you can find Diane at http://dianesanfilippo.com. Join our email lists for free goodies and updates that you don’t find anywhere else on our website or on the podcast. Please leave us an iTunes review {laughs}. I’ve completely discouraged anyone from ever doing that again with this episode.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: But we appreciate them. See you next week.