Podcast Episode #160: Type 2 Diabetes, Winter Skincare, Cooking Temperature & RD vs. NTP

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Topics: 

1. What’s new for you from Diane & Liz [3:01] 2. Shout Out: Mike the Paleo newbie from last week [9:49] 3. This week in the Paleosphere: BuzzFeed’s food tasting videos [11:42] 4. Listener Questions: * Suddenly have acne eating paleo [15:29] * Type 2 diabetes shifting to paleo [26:39] * Nutrition education path  [34:21] * Is milk okay even if not raw?[43:05] 5. Liz’s skin care tip of the week:  changing our skin care for cooler weather [48:16] 6. Diane’s Kitchen tip: What temperature to cook at [50:40] 7. This week’s hashtag details: #weirdfoodIlove [53:15]

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Links:

The Jewish Food Taste Test
Irish People Taste American Snacks

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Liz Wolfe: Hey everyone! Welcome to Balanced Bites podcast number 160. I’m Liz, and that’s Diane, per usual.

Diane Sanfilippo: Hey.

Liz Wolfe: First, let’s do a little word from our sponsors. Pete’s Paleo, bringing fine dining to your cave. Make eating paleo easier and more delicious with Pete’s meal plans. Great for those nights when you need real food fast. Pete’s Paleo is offers 21-Day Sugar Detox friendly meals to make your life that much easier on the 21DSD. Check out http://petespaleo.com/ for all the details, and be sure to check out chef Pete’s cookbook, Paleo By Season. I did a review of Paleo By Season on my YouTube channel, and my blog. You should check that out too.

By the way, I’ve been surviving on Pete’s Paleo Meals the last week or so, so they are definitely worth just having them around. Even if you’re not going to eat them every single day, just have them in your freezer to pull out whenever.

Diane Sanfilippo: I bet you’re thriving on them, Liz.

Liz Wolfe: I’m just thriving. I’m thirty flirty and thriving. Except I’m 31. Aww, now I’m sad.

And now our brand new sponsor Vital Choice. We’re super excited to welcome Vital Choice as our newest sponsor here on the podcast. They are a fantastic brand that we hand-selected to bring on as a sponsor to the show. I’ve been ordering from Vital Choice for years, and they really are a trusted source for fast home delivery of the world’s finest wild seafood and organic fare. It’s harvested from healthy, well managed wild fisheries and farms. They’ve got all kinds of information about their products on their website. The fisheries that supply most of their seafood are certified sustainable by MSC, you can look for their blue logo, or the state of Alaska, or they’re widely considered sustainable. I personally order Portuguese sardines, oysters, and even now and then caviar from Vital Choice. They’ve even got some wild salmon dog treats – I just love ‘em. They’re offering our listeners 15% off any order using code balancedbites and they always offer free shipping on orders over $99. So you can take advantage of that, too.

What’s new for you from Diane & Liz [3:01]

Liz Wolfe: Alright, so, what’s new with you Diane? I assume many things.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} So, I think I mentioned last week that I launched my Build a Badass Business podcast. And, now three episodes are live for that, so check that out in iTunes. Make sure that you subscribe if you’re interested in that sort of thing, because I’m not necessarily releasing those on any regular schedule, just kind of when something hits me that I want to talk about and I just turn on my little recorder and go, and then I upload them pretty much whenever I’m ready. So, just hit subscribe to that over in iTunes.

I definitely love reading, just like we do with this show, people’s reviews and seeing what’s really speaking to them. So, I’m psyched about that. It’s been very well received already, so I’m excited to hear what people are doing with all the information.

So, sorry about to open this new fancy book I got. I’m going to let you hear a thud. {thunk}. {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: Oh my god.

Diane Sanfilippo: When it hits the table. So I have the first copy of Mediterranean Paleo Cooking, so anyone who follows me around social media has seen me posting about it between just some pictures and a video of when I got the first book. I obnoxiously opened it while the UPS guy was still waiting there, so the truck was just beeping in the background.

Liz Wolfe: Do they make you sign for stuff in New Jersey?

Diane Sanfilippo: No, I don’t think I had to sign for this. I don’t know, I just was waiting for him to drop the stuff off, and I was just hovering around the truck, noticing the box that I knew had a book in it. I was like, I want that, give me that. {laughs} But yeah, so I peeled the bubble wrap off, and did the whole thing on a video. I’ll see if we can link to it.

But I’m just super excited. I’ve been talking about it now, since we’ve been working on it for a long time. There’s just, I don’t know, this amazing feeling you get when the book arrives and you see all this work kind of culminate into something printed. So, I just wanted to remind people that we will be touring pretty much around the country for a week, starting October 28 in Nashville, October 29 in Atlanta, October 30 in Chicago, and November 1 in San Francisco. Then we do plan to do another tour I think the first or second week of December. So, keep your eyes open and your ears open for dates and locations on that.

I think the only other thing I wanted to tell people for Mediterranean Paleo Cooking, is that I have already shared one of, I would say, my favorite recipes from the book. It’s the Easy Paleo Falafel. I shared it with my emailing list, and I’ve seen folks already making it and pretty much obsessing over it, because it’s really, really, really good. And if you’ve missed falafel, which is generally made with chickpeas. Which, I don’t think chickpeas are the worst thing in the world to be eating, but for a lot of folks they just do not work well in their system. So the Easy Paleo Falafel has been a super popular recipe already. So if you want to try that out before the book comes out, just make sure you’re on my emailing list, and it will go out again each Sunday in the next few weeks, probably leading up to the book release.

I’m just really excited for people to start cooking from it, and posting about it, and enjoying all these amazing recipes.

Liz Wolfe: I want it.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} You’ll get it pretty soon I think.

Liz Wolfe: Hurry up!

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: Gosh. Gosh, what do you think?

Diane Sanfilippo: What about you? What’s going on over there, on the farm stead.

Liz Wolfe: Oh, you know. We got cows. We lost cows.

Diane Sanfilippo: Wait, what?

Liz Wolfe: Yeah. It’s been a really hard week. {laughing} I’m going to talk more about this. It’s a long, long story, so I’ll talk more about it on the next, or one of the upcoming Modern Farm Girl podcasts, because it is not an entirely resolved situation at this point. But, basically what happened is we brought our Dexter babies, our Dexter cows to the homestead recently, and a tree had actually fallen on the section of the fence kind of out towards the back acreage. And, as soon as they get here, they walk the fence line, and they got out almost immediately.

I have this Instagram picture; well, I haven’t put it on Instagram yet because I’m kind of waiting to see if this all turns out happy ending, but of me chasing a miniature Dexter cow down this really long dirt road. Just the most futile exercise you could possibly imagine.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Oh my god.

Liz Wolfe: Cows get out, of course, it’s not like my indoor cat escaped and is never going to come back. Cows get out, people find them, neighbors find them. We actually had one come back.

Diane Sanfilippo: They’re not exactly small, so.

Liz Wolfe: No. Well, I mean these are small for cows, but they’re still not small. {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. I mean, it’s not like somebody would see a random cow and be like, eh, whatever. It would be like, whose cow is this? {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: I mean, it was actually kind of funny, because the one that came back was like walking in front of our house back and forth, just pacing, and yelling at us.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing}

Liz Wolfe: Like, I don’t want to come in, but I don’t know what to do if I’m out here. It was actually really sad and cute.

Diane Sanfilippo: Aww.

Liz Wolfe: And eventually that one came back, and I’ll tell that whole story. But a neighbor did find the other one, we think. We haven’t actually seen it yet. We’ve got to go down there to make sure. Because we actually had to borrow a trailer to bring the ones that we brought home to bring them in. So, we’ve got to…

Diane Sanfilippo: And your neighbor isn’t like right next door. {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: Yeah, by neighbor I mean like probably 2 miles away.

Diane Sanfilippo: Oh, that’s so crazy.

Liz Wolfe: So I basically had to roll around leaving notes on people’s mailboxes. “if you see our little calf, please call, text, or stop by.” And of course, they stopped by, like why would you call or text when you could stop by.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} of course.

Liz Wolfe: It was really cute.

Diane Sanfilippo: That’s hilarious.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: It’s like you’re making a lost cow sign, and hanging it {laughs} around the neighborhood.

Liz Wolfe: Yup. {laughs} Pretty much. But when the whole story is resolved, and everything is happy. Because they’re both still really sad because they’re not together. I’ll tell it more in full. {laughs} With a happier ending. I’m still in that place where I’m like, oh my god, why did we do this? {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: Saying that since you moved.

Liz Wolfe: It’s been like 2 years. No, they’re adorable though. I did post a picture on Instagram of one of them. And they apparently produce incredibly good meat, which is what they’re for in the future anyway.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Which is also why they’re kind of confused about whether or not they want to come back.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs} Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: I don’t know if this is the best idea. {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: They’re suspicious of my intentions.

Diane Sanfilippo: They saw all the steak sauce in the kitchen.

Liz Wolfe: {laughing} They were like, you have a grill and a smoker, and another grill?

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: This doesn’t make sense to me.

Shout Out: Mike the Paleo newbie from last week[9:49]

Liz Wolfe: Alright, so. Our shout out this week. Diane, do you have a shout out for us?

Diane Sanfilippo: It’s your shout out.

Liz Wolfe: It’s my shout out?

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: What was I going to do?

Diane Sanfilippo: It’s right here.

Liz Wolfe: Oh, ok. I see it.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: Alright, so erase this part.

Diane Sanfilippo: Or don’t.

Liz Wolfe: Or don’t. Alright, so the shout out this week is actually a follow-up from Mike. Not really, Mike.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: “Hi Diane and Liz. This is Mike, the paleo newbie that you talked about on your last podcast. A few days after I wrote in my body,” that’s not what he said. “A few days after I wrote in, my body started to become more regular again. My stomach still feels a little strange from time to time as I try new foods, but overall well. I laughed quite a bit when Liz mentioned personal trainers drinking tons of water, because I drink so much water and didn’t account for that. I also was eating a lot more fat and vegetables, including kale, and switched very quickly, so you were dead on. Thanks for the advice, and continue the great work. Love, Mike.”

Diane Sanfilippo: This was Mike, so it wasn’t last week as of this point, but it was, I think he was having a lot of issues with loose stools.

Liz Wolfe: Yes. Mike had the runs.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, and we were definitely talking about too much water, too much fat, or just tons of insoluble fiber. None of that stuff is bad overall, eating a high-fat diet, or eating lots of insoluble fiber, but generally if you’re changing up your diet really quickly, and all of a sudden it’s more fat, all of a sudden it’s more insoluble fiber, all of that, can be tough on the body. So yeah, cool. Glad that we were able to help.

Liz Wolfe: Virtual high fives, friend.

This week in the Paleosphere: BuzzFeed’s food tasting videos[11:42]

Diane Sanfilippo: Alright, so this week in the Paleo/Real Food/I don’t even know what osphere. I wonder if you’ve seen, Buzzfeed has been making a whole bunch of these hilarious videos. {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: I can’t watch. I can’t watch videos here. You know this.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing}

Liz Wolfe: I have to save all the videos for when I go into town.

Diane Sanfilippo: Alright, well save them up. We’re going to link to a couple of them from this podcast. At least my very favorite one. They’ve been shared around Facebook or wherever. But it’s basically people who aren’t used to certain foods eating those foods. And so, there’s Americans eating Irish snacks or treats, or Irish eating American snacks. They’re like Irish people eating Fruit Loops and Twizzlers and watching their reaction to them.

I find it pretty hilarious, because I think most of us know how weird a lot of our food is.

Liz Wolfe: How not food a lot of our food is?

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Yes! They were tasting a Jolly Rancher, bit right into it. And I’m watching them, like, why are you doing that?!

Liz Wolfe: Ugh!

Diane Sanfilippo: Stop doing that! {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: That’s going to pull out your fillings!

Diane Sanfilippo: They were, they were like, it’s sticking to my teeth. {laughs} It just cracked me up. A Twizzler, and someone was like, it’s more of a gelatinous kind of thing and it doesn’t really taste like anything. And they’re reading all of the ingredients on Fruit Loops and then Twizzlers, and the one guy was like, these are all the same ingredients that were in the other thing!

Liz Wolfe: {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} It’s like, nailed it. But my favorite one is people tasting Jewish food. Which {laughs} they’re given gefilte fish, and chopped liver, and matzo ball soup. {laughs} One guy was like, I don’t know how you’d be craving this soup. Just a little bit of broth, and a giant sponge in the middle. {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: And I was just like {laughing}. Scott and I were eating lunch; every now and then we’ll just put on a funny video while we’re eating lunch just to, I don’t know, have a little giggle and choke on our lunch.

Liz Wolfe: A little mini-date.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. And often it will be Jim Gaffigan’s Kale clip, which if you haven’t seen it, or his Hot Pocket. Have you seen his Hot Pockets one?

Liz Wolfe: Yeah, I have.

Diane Sanfilippo: {singing} Hot Pockets. {laughing} We just die. Anyway, this one was hilarious. It’s funnier for sure if you’ve eaten those foods growing up. But I shared that one on Simone’s wall of ZenBelly because she and I are like food history twins, we basically grew up eating the same kind of random Jewish food. Anyway, I love that one. I think it’s hilarious. And people should definitely check it out of you want a good laugh. Yeah, that’s pretty much it. Love those.

Liz Wolfe: Number one: Twizzlers don’t taste like anything.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} They’re like a waxy.

Liz Wolfe: I’ve never understood why people like Twizzlers.

Diane Sanfilippo: A waxy, mildly fake strawberry flavor.

Liz Wolfe: It’s like eating a partially melted candle.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing} But if you bit the ends off, you can use it as a straw.

Liz Wolfe: No, stop it.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yes.

Liz Wolfe: And number 2: Jim Gaffigan was on a very short lived show called My Boys on TBS.

Diane Sanfilippo: Oh, yeah.

Liz Wolfe: A couple of years ago, and I loved that show, and I’m so sad it went away.

Diane Sanfilippo: His, I forget what the whole show is called. So many clips of it are on YouTube, we just kind of click around and watch those.

Liz Wolfe: Oh man.

Diane Sanfilippo: Good stuff.

Liz Wolfe: The Gaff.

Diane Sanfilippo: Good stuff. {singing} Hot Pockets.

Liz Wolfe: The guy that could be funny without being completely disgusting.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing} My favorite in the Kale clip is he’s talking about how you need to cover it in cayenne pepper and bury it in the ground. {laughing}

Liz Wolfe: {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: That’s how you make it taste good.

Liz Wolfe: That’s about the extent of it.

Diane Sanfilippo: {singing} Hot Pockets.

Suddenly have acne eating paleo [15:29]

Liz Wolfe: Alright, moving right along. Listener questions. We got to these kind of quickly this week. I feel like people only have, you know, like maybe 27 minutes of us just talking. Might be a record.

Diane Sanfilippo: Maybe. I actually think it was around 15, so go us. Another virtual high five. We’re getting so efficient. We’re becoming efficiency experts. That’s the thing.

Liz Wolfe: You know, my husband loves efficiency. He literally has his Master’s degree in some kind of efficiency genre.

Diane Sanfilippo: There’s a whole book about that. Forget it, I can’t even think about it.

Liz Wolfe: He talks about how efficient UPS is all the time.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: He’s like, no, they love logistics. They’re so efficient!

Diane Sanfilippo: He’s like, already a 65-year-old man.

Liz Wolfe: Oh, I love him so much.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: Alright. Next question. Or, first question. Suddenly have acne eating paleo. Paleo harder. Just paleo harder! I’m kidding. Alright, Jesse says, “First of all, love the show! I look forward to listening to your podcast every week, and I especially love the goofy humor. I'm a 35-year-old male who's been Primal/paleo since January of this year. Overall I love it, I've lost weight, and lost the general bloating/crappy feeling associated with carbs. However, I have started to get zits. It's gotten progressively worse, to the point now when I would say I officially have acne (the nice BIG red ones).

I have never had acne my entire life, including my teen years. Now suddenly, at 35 and when starting on paleo, my face began to break out. I've developed an obsessive routine (or so says my wife). I wash twice daily with a chemical cleanser and also apply a gel which contains salicylic acid, and that seems to hold it in check, not make it better. If I skip a day of the routine, within a few days my face is noticeably worse.

I really love the way I eat now, and don't want to go the prescription drug route; do you have any tips for me? I do not exercise and generally get about 8-10 hours of sleep per night. I am also not supplementing. On the macro-nutrient level, I generally keep carbs between 50-70 grams daily, around 100 grams a day of fat, and around 90 grams of protein. I am strict about eating primal with the exception of my one delicious vice which is beer 2-4 times a week. I go organic wherever possible, and the animal products I eat are all pastured, grass fed, etc. I consume dairy but always get grass-fed organic dairy products, and raw wherever possible, which doesn't happen too often.”

So I’m kind of curious what he ate before. What he’s transitioning from.

Diane Sanfilippo: I’m actually doing some math really quickly, and I’ll get back to you in a second with my little calculator here.

Liz Wolfe: Ok.

Diane Sanfilippo: But I’m trying to calculate how much he’s eating, because very immediately it doesn’t sound like he’s eating enough, but I’ll get back to you.

Liz Wolfe: Ok. Yeah, well we don’t know how tall, or how much he weighs. If he weighs 105 pounds… If he’s Mickey Rooney, it’s probably fine. So my curiosity was, what is he coming from? So if we just want to talk straight up, what people add when they go paleo/primal that maybe they weren’t eating as much of before, Diane and I were talking about this earlier, the two most possible additions would be an excess of nuts, or adding dairy when perhaps you weren’t eating dairy before. Maybe you cut it out completely because you felt like it was disgusting, and then you realized that grass-fed, raw, full fat dairy was a totally different ballgame versus what was kind of available in your food spectrum before. And those things can definitely contribute to some skin issues.

35 is also a pretty decent time for hormonal changes absent a change in diet, so it could be just this perfect storm, the two could be completely unrelated. We really don’t know that for sure, only Jesse could give some thought to this and see what he things.
What I’m wondering is, really, what kind of significant swings in dietary intake happened with this switch? So did he go from low-fat raw vegan, to this, or is he eating much healthier, like Standard American Diet to paleo/primal, but maybe eating dramatically fewer carbs? Or much more fat than before, and more than he can handle?

Even eating much more protein than before, which, depending on where it came from, this may be a heck of a lot more protein than he was eating before. Of course protein itself isn’t inherently bad, of course it’s not, and is nothing to fear. But it is a building block, and sometimes depending on what’s going on inside the body, it could potentially drive some acne. I don’t want to freak anybody out over that, but it’s just one of those things, depending on where you’re coming from beforehand.

And this is kind of part of the reason I often advocate gradual changes, because you do give your body a little bit of time to adjust. And part of that adjustment period, it’s not just mental. It’s also digestive. And it also has to do with the mobilization of toxic substances that maybe weren’t effectively detoxing before. You’re body really can store a lot of harmful substances coming from the diet, and when you start giving it the tools to detox and you stop feeding it substances that were troublesome, your body will start to mobilize some of those things.

So, that could be part of it as well. If you just kind of think of these things just kind of bubbling up to the surface. That’s a possibility.

Diane Sanfilippo: Did you talk about nuts and seeds?

Liz Wolfe: Yeah, at the beginning.

Diane Sanfilippo: Ok, so that. I was doing math while you did that. So, there’s no multitasking.

Liz Wolfe: Ok, do your math thing

Diane Sanfilippo: Ok, so the reason I did that math is I looked at that and I remember from the days when I’ve definitely calculated how much I’m eating just to see what’s going in. Even if he’s doing the 70 grams a day of carbs, I just added that up to 1540 calories. We don’t know how tall he is or how much he weighs, but generally speaking, for any guys, even if they’re not bigger guys, 1500 calories… I mean even for most women, that’s not enough. For a slight female who maybe isn’t very active, that could be plenty of calories.

We talk about all these different dietary reasons for acne, and as you mentioned, hormonal shifts for acne are obviously huge as well. I don’t know if he’s under eating if that’s becoming a stress in the body, and he’s not able to just kind of maintain a healthy hormone balance because of it. I would say to definitely try and eat more.

That protein is not really that high, I don’t think it’s that high. I think the carb count, if you’re eating real food carbs, especially once your body has kind of transitioned, and you’ve already lost some weight, it definitely sounds like you could be eating more carbs than you are. I would up that to at least 150 grams a day. I would up both your fat and protein a little bit. Definitely the protein; the fat kind of depends.

I just don’t generally like to see guys eating fewer than 2000 calories a day. Just because you can’t get all the nutrition you need without that many calories. So it’s not just a matter of macronutrients, but the micronutrients that we need. It’s one of the things, I know you and I have talked about it a lot, when it comes to under eating or underfeeding your body, it’s not just, you know, I eat this many calories and that’s all that matters. It’s, what else you’re calories are carrying with them, and how dense they are in micronutrients.

So, somebody could be eating 2000 calories a day of micronutrient poor food; that would be a shout out to my friends Mira and Jayson Calton, who wrote Rich Food, Poor Food. But I absolutely believe in that whole theory that the problems we have in our nutrition, they’re multifactorial. Right? One of them we kind of all know has to do with gut bacteria and the balance in there, but I do think that eating foods that don’t have enough micronutrients can be really problematic, and then compound that with just not eating enough in general, and I think you’re really kind of setting yourself up for just an off system.

So that’s kind of my number one thing here, is I think he needs to eat more. I pretty much think everybody needs to eat more. {laughs} But I do.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah, really. But not, but don’t just do that. I wouldn’t do that, I wouldn’t go tomorrow and jam in a ton more carbs, a ton more protein, and whatever.

Diane Sanfilippo: I just wonder how…

Liz Wolfe: You do need to go about this gradually.

Diane Sanfilippo: But like you said, I wonder if, just like we had with Mike who, all of a sudden started eating more fat, more insoluble fiber, all of that stuff. Did Jesse all of a sudden cut his calories by a thousand a day, and does that just totally upset his system? So yeah, I wouldn’t say chug an extra thousand calories a day immediately, but realistically, he’s one of those candidates where I’m like, you need to count your food to recognize that you’re not getting enough. Because you just need to get more in there.

Liz Wolfe: Because a caloric restriction could very well have kind of stimulated some kind of mobilization of this kind of detox process, as well. Because your body does kind of go through this dump when that happens.

Diane Sanfilippo: There’s so many things to balance, too. I know, this is something Dr. Kalish talks about a lot, where I feel like he’s got a few different factors that are kind of the big things that mess our bodies up. So, digestion and detoxification being one, which is kind of what you’re talking about primarily, and then hormonal balance is absolutely another. And none of them are independent from each other, but I think it’s so important to recognize that our sex hormones can be pretty delicate when we make this kind of change to our diet and lifestyle, and sometimes that’s for a positive reason, like we see with PCOS. We get blood sugar in check, and in females PCOS regulates. If somehow this is very stressful for Jesse’s system, whatever the changes are, and that could affect the rest of his hormones that then are affecting acne. So we don’t know if that acne is hormonal, if it’s digestive. We’re not really sure where it’s coming from. But I think checking all of those angles will really help. And report back to us.

Liz Wolfe: So look at the calories.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: Look at the digestion. Look at supporting detoxification systems. Maybe think about what could potentially be affecting hormonal balance, lifestyle wise as well as food wise. I would get a little movement in there too, because that just tends to get things moving a little bit better. Even if it’s just walking, if you can do that. And also, not to kind of plug my own work, but this is a lot of what’s in the Skintervention Guide.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: So if you don’t have it, if you need a little bit more personal guidance on how to support digestion and how to get the micronutrients that are most important for the skin, that’s all in there. For one low, low price.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Yes.

Type 2 diabetes shifting to paleo [26:39]

Liz Wolfe: Ok. Cool. Alright. Type 2 diabetes shifting to paleo. Melissa asks, “First off, I love your podcast and you've truly changed the way I see food and body image. My question is this: my dad is a big “real food” enthusiast, and he wanted me to ask you girls some advice. He is 65 years old, 5'9″, and 175 pounds. He has type 2 diabetes and lives an active lifestyle due to the fact that his job is in construction. He loves meat and eats a lot of it. However, he loves bread, pasta, starchy vegetables and high sugar fruits. Basically, anything that is sweet or full of gluten. How can I get him to make healthier choices or change his eating habits?”

I feel like I know what you’re going to say.

Diane Sanfilippo: You do?

Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.

Diane Sanfilippo: I do this when I listen to other people’s podcasts. I try and predict what their answer will be. And I’ve heard other people doing that to us now, too. Which I think is cute. I like it.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: Alright, well I’ll throw out my ideas, you can tell me if you predicted them {laughs} and then hear whatever your thoughts are. So, I think if he works in construction and he’s pretty active, I don’t think carbs necessarily are the problem. Or even those high-sugar fruits, necessarily. I think if he’s packing a lunch, which it sounds like if he’s active, he probably brings a lunch with him, or should. I think the best way to approach this would be to make the 9-5 or the Monday to Friday that he’s eating and packing and taking with him paleo-friendly, even if it does include some starchy veggies and some fruit, and to just get rid of the refined stuff as sort of a first phase. And to do that primarily as I’m saying Monday to Friday, and watch what happens with his blood sugar levels.

Now, we don’t know if he’s taking any kind of prescription medications, if he’s taking any insulin or metformin or something like that. Definitely, if he’s taking those, he needs to make sure he pays attention and perhaps talks to his doctor about what’s going on. If he’s going to lower his overall carb intake, he may need to adjust what’s happening medication wise. But I like for people to set themselves up for success, and put the right foods in their lunch pail or whatever they’re bringing with them. The cooler for the whole day, and then just have that stuff ready. And then watch how it changes how he feels.

Because it’s really hard to help our parents make changes, I know. My parents don’t eat paleo. It’s pretty much, I think they’re doing gluten free at home, and I know that they eat some gluten here and there when they go out to eat. But I can’t control that, it’s not really up to me to control, and same thing here, Melissa, with your dad.

But I do think that if he wants the advice, that’s my best advice for kind of getting started. It’s just, have the right foods there, and get the stuff that you don’t need out. And I just think when you get to this point where you’re a little bit older and you’re maybe set in your ways, it’s important to see the changes and see how it feels for yourself and not just take it at face value.

Of course listening to your kids, even if they’re full grown adults, is hard. I think it’s hard for parents for their children to say something that they may have done wrong, or even that the parent may have fed the child, and they feel badly about it. I do think that part of it is just changing the habits and seeing how you feel from there. You’re thoughts?

Liz Wolfe: Totally wrong.

Diane Sanfilippo: Ugh!

Liz Wolfe: You didn’t say anything I thought you were going to say.

Diane Sanfilippo: I love keeping you on your toes. What was I going to say? {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: Well, here’s what I thought, and then I thought maybe not. Because we don’t know if Melissa’s dad, what state of mind he was in to ask her to ask us this question, so I was just questioning whether or not he’s ready. The first thing I was going to say is, well, he just has to be ready. You can’t get him to make healthier choices or change his eating habits, unless he’s really ready to do it.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: And asking with kind of an open heart, like, you tell me what to do and I’m going to do it. I’ve seen many adults who are just sick of whatever it is they’re dealing with, and they’re like, I’ll do whatever you tell me to do. Let’s do it. That’s readiness. There are people who are like, I want to change, but really what they mean is, I want my life to be different but I want to keep doing the same things.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Totally. I think you have a good point. He has to be ready. But I do think it’s hard to hear it from your child.

Liz Wolfe: Definitely.

Diane Sanfilippo: And I also think that with our parents, what I’ve definitely seen, I hate to say this in this way because I’m like, sorry mom. She doesn’t listen to the podcast anyway.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: But it’s almost the same way it is with parents and children, is that you have to give them a replacement. You can’t just take the thing away.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: Because, you know, at this point, 65 years of living doing things a certain way, you can’t say, you just can’t eat that thing. That just isn’t going to fly. You need to tell him, or show him, or give him what to eat instead. I know you’ve had this experience too, with your parents.

Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.

Diane Sanfilippo: Where you’ve said, ok, please stop using this mayonnaise, use this one instead. Or this oil, or whatever it may be. Generally I think with parents lateral shifts work the best.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: Meaning, something that looks and feels and works the same way, and just switching it over. So this is one of those cases where, if he’s used to eating bread, pasta, all that stuff, I am ok with somebody trying a quinoa pasta for a while, or a brown rice pasta.

Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.

Diane Sanfilippo: And as much as the paleo devotees listening shudder and cringe when I say that, getting somebody into the grocery store, choosing something differently, is activating a whole different part of our system and part of our brain where, instead of maybe grabbing for that Barilla or Ronzoni or whatever the heck it was for the last 60 years.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs} Ronzoni? For real?

Diane Sanfilippo: I think that was a type of pasta. Listen.

Liz Wolfe: That’s funny.

Diane Sanfilippo: Listen.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: I’m half Italian. I’m pretty sure we know the pasta brands.

Liz Wolfe: {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: But just getting that shift to happen, I’m so serious, that is a huge thing.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: Just literally looking for something different in the grocery store and taking them off of autopilot and putting them into a different zone. And getting them on autopilot in those new things now, unfortunately our parents tend to get stuck, sometimes in the interim longer than we want. So, if you get them switched over to the gluten-free stuff, they can be there for quite some time. Because they’re still, they do still have those habits.

So it really depends on the person, and you have to remember too that grain-free isn’t like the great panacea of the world. And for somebody who’s diabetic, we do want to see them reduce that carb intake from refined foods overall for a while, but then they should be able to tolerate real food carbs over a longer period of time once they heal their body, if it’s possible to, and really reduce some of that exogenous insulin intake if they get the blood sugar sensitivity back.

This stuff doesn’t happen overnight. It’s probably not going to happen in 30 days. And, certainly getting a whole lifestyle to change after 65 years, it’s going to take some time and you have to really be patient, and offer up some alternatives, and really support in that way.

Liz Wolfe: Definitely. And hopefully he asked in the spirit of readiness. I don’t know. Because if that’s the case, he’ll open up his lunch pail and say, yay. Look what Melissa packed me today.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: Versus, I’m going to eat this and then I’m going to go eat a meatball sub.

Diane Sanfilippo: A hoagie on a giant roll.

Liz Wolfe: A hoagie. Go down to the wa-wa, get me a hoagie.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Nutrition education path [34:21]

Liz Wolfe: Alright. Next one, from Julie. Nutrition education path. “Hello Ladies! I don’t know where to begin with this question, advice rather. I shall not tell you how much I look up to both of you and how much your advice has influenced my life, because I feel many already speak your praises enough.”

It’s never enough, Julie.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: Never. {laughs} “I'll start off by saying, I'm deciding to go back to school. I know this question can only be answered by soul searching and what not, but I figured since you both work in this field you could narrow it down for me a bit. Some of this stuff may seem like negative self talk or doubt but hear me out 🙂

As of now, I'm 26 with an Associate’s degree. I do want to finish my Bachelor’s at some point, but I don't know what path to take. I have no science background whatsoever; terrified of math and science. My primary focus would special needs children. Mostly autistic, non verbal 3- 10 year olds who have severe GI issues or medical issues because of their diet. If I could consult with families who actually want to change their lifestyle I'd be doing what I've wanted to do for a long time. However, because the children I work with have a lot of medical trauma and are on a lot of meds, I feel I need to complete more schooling if I want to help them.

Without a Bachelor’s, I feel I won't be taken seriously by insurance companies, doctors, or anyone that follows the SAD. I've looked into becoming a RD and then taking the year long course to become an NTP. The RD degree would give me the credentials to work with these children, but I don't think I have the mental energy to finish a degree that is backed by the ADA.

Should I commit to becoming an NTP, then finish my degree? If I complete my degree first, what should I study? There are a lot of things to consider and I thank you for reading these ramblings. I want to have the correct credentials in order to give these kids my expertise, but I also don't want to commit to a degree I won't be able to finish. Thank you; Julie (the over thinker).”

She said that, not me. Although she’s definitely over thinking, but it’s not a bad thing. It’s actually very smart of her to be thinking about these things. And I’ll just jump in and say, number 1. Without an RD, it may even be risky to try to work with children with diagnosed medical issues. That’s just a really slippery slope. And you do have to be really careful with your disclaimers, and you have to know what the laws in your states are to work with medical needs, especially for children. That is just really tough territory. And that stinks.

And for the most part, I think one of the best ways to reach that kind of population is to be found by people who are looking for something different. So for example, if the parent of an autistic child heard that a gluten-free, casein-free diet might be able to help their child, they Google that, they find the GAPS diet, they find Dr. Natasha Campbell-McBride, and they find you because you’re a GAPS practitioner. And then they come to you willing with openness towards what you're doing, and an understanding of what it entails.

Now, if you’re just, for example like a friend of mine does, working in a school, for example, that has a class for autistic children or those with different backgrounds, it’s going to be incredibly difficult to make them understand or take on radical changes that are completely outside anything they’ve ever heard before, completely outside the paradigm, and completely outside the doctors they’re working with have ever said. And it can be a little bit dangerous.

So, yes, it’s really difficult to go through and complete the RD. Diana Rogers is doing that right now; I don’t know how she’s doing it. It’s an incredibly difficult process, and it takes a really long time. But if you want to directly approach these people in a medical environment, and try and make things better for them, you probably need to be an RD, and you probably need to also have a really creative way of bringing those things up. Because even if you are an RD, you’ve still got the ADA and whatever the association of RD’s who try and police each other breathing down your neck, trying to tell you that you’re not doing what you should be doing because it’s outside their convention recommendations.

I think one of the most powerful things you can do, Julie, is to start a blog, start a website, start talking about these things so people can find you passively on their own accord. That will also get you a chance to home in on what you really care about, what you really want to talk about, how you want to say it, and who you want to work with. Because people will begin to find you, and you can get a better idea of what path you can take.

That’s really part of how I ended up here where I am. I started writing about things, and putting my thoughts out on the interwebs, and people started approaching me, and I started to cater my education to the people that were approaching me for help. And then Diane found me and made me be on a podcast.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Yeah, I think the point about what state you’re in and what the laws and regulations are in your state are pretty important. I’ve told this to everybody who’s looking to study and figure out what they want to do. Just like you said, depending on who you want to work with. So if you want to be one of those people who gets into either a hospital setting or a clinical setting, or some kind of institutional setting, in a school system or something like that, where you may need that RD in order to do that, then that’s absolutely a reason to get that credential. I think there are some people who are just kind of, I don’t know, fighters in that way. Like, I want to get in there, and I want to be in the system that isn’t right, and do what I know is right within that.

But I do think you’ll also come up against walls, like you said Liz, with just the crendentialing system and they my question your credentials if they don’t like what you’re teaching. You may have issues even within that, even once you’re credentialed, you may have some issues. It really just kind of depends.

I never wanted to work in a hospital setting or any type of doctor’s office, that was never something that I felt like was my place or where I would be comfortable. So if you want to, as Liz mentioned, get yourself out there, let yourself be known in a community and just start helping people, as long as you’re falling within what your state regulations are on what you can talk about with nutrition and how you can help people, then I do think going that route, maybe doing the NTP, and I don’t know what kind of prerequisites there are for an NTP as well, but having that whole certification behind you may be enough.

I think there’s a little bit, I don’t know, sort of like a head game that people play with the credentials. I think, to some degree, it’s obviously important. It’s important that you have an education around this stuff, but which credential you have, it’s going to be a little bit more of a legal issue potentially, depending on how you want to help people.

I tend to agree with what Liz said; you want to get people who are coming to you because they know what you do and they are ready for you to help them in that way, versus you’re there and they get pointed to you because they’re struggling and they’re just defaulted to you. Because you may get people who are just really resistant.

But at the same time, if you’re that person who’s an RD who’s teaching what we know is really right about nutrition, versus just kind of the standard protocol that’s always been taught that we’re watching even diabetic be given 300 grams of carbs a day from some registered dieticians in a hospital. If you want to be the person who initiates change there, then you have to approach that differently, I think. Do you know what I mean? You’re not going to be able to work in that type of clinical setting as an NTP if you don’t also have the RD.

Liz Wolfe: Right.

Diane Sanfilippo: So, yeah, just kind of depends on what you see for yourself in that way.

Liz Wolfe: And you can help people without necessarily just talking to them one on one. There are a lot of ways to help people. So, don’t despair just because you may not be able to go about this the way conventional channels. Don’t lose hope, there are many ways.

By the way, while you were talking, I had to put you on mute and run, literally run downstairs and outside because I thought the cow got out again.

Diane Sanfilippo: I have nothing to say about that. {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: Yeah, me too. Alright. {laughs} Next one.

Diane Sanfilippo: It’s a moo point. {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: It’s a moo point. It’s like a cows opinion.

Diane Sanfilippo: It doesn’t matter. It’s moo.

Is milk okay even if not raw?[43:05]

Liz Wolfe: Is milk okay even if not raw? Erin says.

Diane Sanfilippo: Moo! Sorry. {laughing}

Liz Wolfe: {laughs} “Hey Liz and Diane, long time listener, big fan. So, question about dairy. I know you've covered this a lot, but I was wondering your thoughts on milk when raw is not an option. It's illegal here in Arizona. There is a farmer at the market that offers it, but they get around the law by having you buy into a cow share, so you are technically a partial owner of the cow. I'm going to investigate this option, but I think it's pretty pricey and I don't necessarily want milk every week. The best alternative (other than my daily coconut milk) I can seem to find is the Organic Valley brand at Whole Foods called “Grassmilk”. Have you had or seen this brand? It claims the cows are 100% grass-fed and the milk is non-homogenized, but of course it is pasteurized. Do you think this is a healthy product? Or do you recommend I ditch the milk altogether if I can't get the raw stuff? What about using it to make kefir? I'm good digestive-wise with dairy, but I do notice I tend to put on a few pounds when I add it to my diet, mostly in my lovely lady lumps.”

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing}

Liz Wolfe: Haven’t heard that in a long time. “My husband also likes it as an extra protein bump after workouts to help fill him. I guess it’s a lot better than the “muscle milk” crap he was buying; gross. I appreciate any input or thoughts you can offer me on this product and my milk dilemma. Thank you!”

I just say it depends. Do you have major thoughts on this, Diane?

Diane Sanfilippo: I feel like we’ve talked about this not that long ago. And,

Liz Wolfe: I mean, I have an opinion about it. I feel like…I mean I don’t know. I really don’t know how dangerous pasteurization is. You know, there are a lot of claims about it, and I tend to think they are reasonable, although they are often communicated in a very alarmist way.

Diane Sanfilippo: Mm-hmm.

Liz Wolfe: I tolerate raw dairy really well, but I also tolerate pasteurized dairy ok, I just generally chose not to eat it. I tend to be a little more concerned about homogenization, actually. Because that actually changes the structure artificially, where as heating maybe is a little bit more of a natural potentially could happen in nature type of process. I don’t know. People might jump on me for that.

Diane Sanfilippo: I mean, it’s denaturing some of the enzymes that were there originally.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: I don’t know. This is stuff that in Practical Paleo, when I gives you guys the breakdown of ideal, next step, next step, next step, I don’t think that grass fed milk is an unhealthy food by nature. I think if it’s raw, it’s sort of the ideal form, but I don’t think it’s a bad food if it’s pasteurized. I do think the critical part is that the milk comes from cows that have been eating what they need to be eating. Although, I know we’ve talked about this before with raw milk, that if the milk is raw and the cow has eaten mostly grass but maybe had gotten some grain, I don’t know how important that is.

Liz Wolfe: That’s probably fine.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. I still think if it’s raw, there’s just such strict regulation around any contaminants and the testing that has to be done for it to be sold as raw. So anyway, I don’t think it’s that huge of a deal. I do think if you’re noticing some changes in your body as related to the dairy protein, I don’t know. I don’t generally think that including it as a regular part of your diet is necessary. But if you feel good with it, and you like it, I do think milk versus muscle milk is probably a good idea. I do not like muscle milk. That stuff is not food.

Liz Wolfe: No, it’s definitely not food. It’s not, what is even in? I mean, is just a bunch of hydrolyzed…

Diane Sanfilippo: I actually had a blog post going together on this, and then I don’t think we ended up finishing. I was disinterested.

Liz Wolfe: {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: I mean, classic.

Liz Wolfe: It’s just not really something I think I want in my body.

Diane Sanfilippo: Let me get you some ingredients. Let’s see, sometimes it’s really hard to get the ingredient listing for these things.

Liz Wolfe: You have to peel back one label to see the bottom label.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. On the internet, it’s hidden. Yeah, they’re just protein isolates. Milk protein isolate, whey protein isolate, hydrosolate. Hydrolysate.

Liz Wolfe: I know.

Diane Sanfilippo: Every time we talk about that. So they’re protein concentrates and isolates and all of that versus sort of just the whole protein that, as it exists with whatever constituents it exists within the real food, so we always recommend that first. Even if you’re adding some cocoa powder and maple syrup to it to make it chocolate milk, you know, for yourself to flavor it. I think that’s a better choice than chocolate muscle milk.

Liz’s skin care tip of the week:  changing our skin care for cooler weather [48:16]

Diane Sanfilippo: Alright. Liz. Do we have a skin care tip from you this week? Yes?

Liz Wolfe: Sure.

Diane Sanfilippo: Alright.

Liz Wolfe: So the question would be, should we change up our skin care for cooler or dry weather? And yeah. I have some posts, I believe, over at the Skintervention Guide blog about this. How to handle winter skin. What happens in the winter is that moisture kind of is zapped from the air, so we are more apt to lose moisture from our skin, because there is less of a water balance in our skin versus the outside air.

And there are two ways your skin can be dry. It can be oil dry, or it can be water dry. I think a lot of this is the water dryness kind of exacerbating any kind of oil imbalance. And really, my favorite thing to do is, number one, make sure you’re getting a good balance of minerals with your hydration. So, getting enough sea salt, enough magnesium, enough calcium, and staying hydrated, number one, from the inside. But also using really nourishing skin care that’s rich in constituents that nourish the skin while also kind of keeping it oil sated.

So I really like tallow. Specifically I love the tallow from Buffalo Gal Grass-fed. She also uses essential oils that are really nourishing and regenerating to the skin. So that’s one of my favorite brands. We’ve done some giveaways with them in the past. That’s Buffalo Gal Grass-fed. I know people love tallow balm, and there are a lot of amazing companies out there that are doing different iterations on tallow balm, but that’s really the first place I would go.

So that can often seem a little bit heavier for people. So people who are using lighter skin care during the summer, maybe will feel like that’s a little much. The way that I like to use it is I like to really slather it on in the evenings, and kind of let it sit a little bit. Sometimes overnight. Another one that I really like is from Dragonfly Traditions. Their night cream, that’s another really, really good one. I think you can do a ton of the leg work during the evenings, versus feeling like you have to reapply something all day, all day, all day long. So that’s my advice.

Diane’s Kitchen tip: What temperature to cook at [50:40]

Liz Wolfe: Alright, so now Diane’s kitchen tip. What’d you got for us this week, Diane?

Diane Sanfilippo: Alright. So this was a listener question, although I don’t know her name. So I don’t know where this question came from, but it appeared in our document. “My husband cooks everything on the cook top on high heat (he says that is how it should be done). I cook most things at a lower temperature and it takes longer. Which one is best?”

So, it really depends on what you’re cooking. I actually most often tend to use the stovetop as well at a high or moderate heat. It really just depends on the food. Often if we’re doing something like steak or chops or something like that, we’ll do a high heat to start it, or to sear it or grill it, for example, and then put it into the oven to finish. It’s really, this is more of a, from my perspective, it’s a culinary thing versus a nutritional thing. So you really can’t say one is always better. It really depends on what you’re trying to achieve with the food.

Now, one thing to keep in mind, if you are doing something like a stir fry, or you’re cooking a large pot of vegetables, for example, if you use low heat, what you’re going to experience is that you allow water to release from the vegetables slowly over time, and you’ll get a really mush result, versus the reason why something like a stir fry is usually high heat, you have everything chopped and ready ahead of time is that it’s going to keep the vegetables crispy and have them get that brighter green color, you know, with sugar snap peas or something like that, turn that bright pretty shade of green, but they don’t move to that brownish-green or brown color because you don’t overcook them, and they also stay crisp instead of mushy.

So that’s one of the biggest things that happens if you don’t use a higher heat. I tend to use a medium-high heat, because I think you can start to get what you want in terms of the results, but maybe not blast the heck out of your food. Again, you’re going to see a difference in results if you change the temperature, and you may not get the right texture going from your food if you cook it on too low of a temperature, or you may just cook the outside too quickly and not get it to cook through if you go too high.

I think I talked about my steam sauté method not long ago, but if you're cooking something like carrots, or some other kind of root vegetable. Say you chop up sweet potatoes into cubes, you can’t cook those on high heat because what you’ll do is just cook the outside, and you won’t get them to cook through. It really depends on the food that you're cooking and the texture that you’re looking for with the result.

Liz Wolfe: Cool.

This week’s hashtag details: #weirdfoodIlove [53:15]

Diane Sanfilippo: Alright, so for this week. I’m going to talk about our winners from the #ateitanyway call out that we had on episode 158. This was your food that’s not paleo perfect or nutrient dense necessarily, but so dang good that you ate it anyway.

Liz Wolfe: And loved it!

Diane Sanfilippo: Love it! So the first one that we loved was from @realfoodie_camille. And I think she had like a Mexican spiced chocolate chip cookie that looked delicious! I don’t think it was necessarily a grain free cookie. But it was a #notpaleo #dontevenask #ateitanyway. So that one looked pretty delicious.

And then my next one, I had to call out two because I loved both of these so much, was from Leah, and her account on Instagram is @mysocalledpaleo. And because we were talking about people trying Jewish food, I don’t know how many people associate a bagel with cream cheese and lox as Jewish food, but I certainly do because it’s what I grew up eating. And she had a gluten free bagel with ghee and wild Alaskan smoked salmon. #notpaleo #ateitanyway. So, I loved that one, and shout out to both of them.

Liz Wolfe: I love that. You’re obsession with Jewish food.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing}

Liz Wolfe: Ok. So this one, inspired by many things, but in particular how much I love a piece of raw milk cheese smothered in sun butter. {laughs} This week’s new interactive hashtag is #weirdfoodIlove. So just weird stuff that you just can’t get enough of. Like pickles dipped in coconut milk.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: I don’t know, whatever it is that you just get those cravings for.

Diane Sanfilippo: Or maybe it’s inspired by the Jewish food. Maybe you love the gefilte fish.

Liz Wolfe: {laughing} If you love mushy meatballs in a bowl of broth. What did they say? A sponge?

Diane Sanfilippo: A sponge! {laughs} Matzo ball soup. A little bit of broth.

Liz Wolfe: Oh my gosh. We’re supposed to be marketing sponges to men.

Diane Sanfilippo: That episode was amazing.

Liz Wolfe: So good.

Diane Sanfilippo: It’s gotten good this year.

Liz Wolfe: Killing it.

Diane Sanfilippo: As long as they keep Winston. Winston? Out of most of the episodes, we’re doing pretty well.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: Which is mostly the Schmidt show.

Liz Wolfe: And Nick. Just let Nick be an idiot.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: Spoiler alert; now you ruined Annie. {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Amazing.

Liz Wolfe: Oh, it’s too good. Alright, so we’ll look forward to the weird food I love hashtags. And that’s it for this week. You can find Diane at http://dianesanfilippo.com, and join me, Liz, at http://realfoodliz.com/. Join our email lists! Join them, join them! If you’re not on the list, you’re missing out. And, if you’re loving our new segment format, please let us know in your iTunes review. And of course, if you don’t like it, just don’t say anything. Thanks! See you next week.

 

 

Cheers! Diane & Liz