Balanced Bites Podcast: Episode #20: Acne, Transexual Hormones, Kombucha, Ketogenic & Pets

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LIZ WOLFE: Hey everyone, I'm Liz Wolfe, here with Diane Sanfilippo of BalancedBites.com, and welcome to the Balanced Bites podcast. Just a reminder, the materials and content contained in this podcast are for general health information only, and are not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment.

Okay. Oh, wow.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Wow.

LIZ WOLFE: What is that about?

DIANE SANFILIPPO: I don't know. Somehow the podcast loaded on another page I had open and that was awesome. [laughs]

LIZ WOLFE: That's funny. Now I know what I sound like, and I hate it.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Well, we're live!

LIZ WOLFE: We're live everybody! Woo hoo!

DIANE SANFILIPPO: I know, we're recording live and normally what I do is…we normally record this, you know, anywhere like from the day before to you know, the week before, whatever, and we kind of keep it as a docdoy episode, but today we just didn't get the chance to record yesterday because I've been a little under the weather for almost the last week, and my voice for the last couple of days has been atrocious [laughs]. Surprisingly today, it's actually back a little bit, so yeah, I feel much better and so I'm glad that we waited, but I may have to mute myself at different points to make a little cough or sneeze or use a tissue, so if you're wondering where I've fallen off [laughs], that might happen. But if anyone's listening live, that's awesome. I thought it'd be fun since we're recording it pretty much, you know, day of, so hi.

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah, we're feeling edgy today.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: [xxx 1;39] a little bit.

LIZ WOLFE: Hey Diane, you were saying earlier, which made me laugh that people were saying sometimes it's hard to tell who's talking when, so now I think today for sure, we're not going to have any problems with that.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Plus, I mean, the stuff that I say, I mean, I just like, I don't know. I feel like can't people tell that I'm the one who rambles like on and on, and you're usually like much more level-headed and just like, listen, here's what I think. [laughs] Anyway.

LIZ WOLFE: Oh, that's just so not true, but I'll take it. I'll take the compliment. What's going on?

DIANE SANFILIPPO: But now you just repeated yourself.

LIZ WOLFE: [laughs] Not a lot. Why don't you kind of tell us what's going on? I know you have a couple things coming up here really soon that you need to tell people about.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: I do. Well, first of all, I wanted to tell people that I was so excited yesterday, and also a little sad just because I'm congested, but excited because I received a huge box of PaleoKits yesterday…

LIZ WOLFE: Yay.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: and some of it was stuff that I had ordered just to kind of stock up for my upcoming whirlwind of craziness of teaching seminars. Basically January through I don't know, April or May, I'm like on a travel blitz. So that'll be interesting and I'll give you guys a couple of notes about where I'll be. But I just wanted to tell you what I got. I'm so excited. Just to be prepared for traveling and flying, and you know, being in airports and whatnot, I always pack meals before I get on the plane, something to eat, but you never know when there might be some kind of delay or you know, you just get…I don't know. Stepping on an airplane, like immediately I'm hungry.

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: It's the same thing that happens when I get into a swimming pool or start swimming, it's like immediately I'm hungry without any effort or…

LIZ WOLFE: [laughs]

DIANE SANFILIPPO: there's no sense in it. It's like swimming makes me starving. It also makes me crave Jolly Ranchers but that's because I grew up eating Jolly Ranchers at the swimming pool…

LIZ WOLFE: Oh my gosh, that's insane. Weird.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: so that's a different phenomenon. And Swedish Fish. Watermelon Jolly Ranchers and…

LIZ WOLFE: Stick Jolly Ranchers.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, those long stick ones? Oh my God, I used to get those.

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah! I used to carry those at school.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Oh my God. So anyway, I stocked up. I got a bunch of the grass-fed PaleoKits. I got the grass-fed jerky and spinach PaleoStick or JerkyStick, whatever they're called. What else did I get? I got a couple of the new, like chocolate espresso PaleoKrunch to try. Those I can't try until I'm done with the Sugar Detox so those will be staying home until after January 22nd. And then what else did I get? I have a couple of new things to try. I got some of the new buffalo chicken jerky to try, which I started last night, but I couldn't really taste it, so I had to wait. So I'll have to give you guys more of a review, but I think [xxx 4;26] definitely tried it. And what else did I get? Oh another new PaleoKrunch cereal, but I can't try that till the end of January, so I'm just super stoked and took a picture and posted it to Facebook last night. I was like, it's raining PaleoKits! Because I have a whole drawer now that's filled, and hopefully I can keep myself away from it while I'm at home, but I really-I love the idea of just like having stuff I can grab and I am definitely going to be bringing some of the grass-fed jerky. I have some small sample size Kits that I can bring. Actually it's just the jerky that I'm going to bring down to Austin this coming weekend, which is…

LIZ WOLFE: Very nice.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: the first of my event announcements. This weekend is Austin. I'll be at CrossFit and Fearless. We've got Caveman Cuisine coming to give us a nice Paleo lunch. I think it's like a small fee somewhere in the $5 to $10 range, just so everyone's covered. You're welcome to bring your own lunch or whatever, but we will have food there. And what else? We're also going to have an olive oil tasting from my friend Anthony Kasandrinos or Tony. He has this olive oil company which a lot of you may have seen kind of floating around Facebook if you're on there: Kasandrinos Imports and his olive oil's amazing. He-it's his family's company, so he just imports it pretty much directly. There's no other like middle man, you know, it's not going through anything so you get an amazing price and stuff…you can't even find it in stores, but if you did, it would cost almost twice as much, so he'll be there doing an olive oil tasting, which will be really fun. I'm trying to get him to come to any events that he can get to, which are not too many, but [xxx 6:00].

And then what else after that? I'm teaching a class on fats at Lululemon Athletica in Garden State Plaza. The sugar class was really fun. We probably had about-I had about 15 people there, which was great. It was after the yoga class, and this next one in two weeks is going to be after a CrossFit class, which will be free from 8 to 9 AM that my CrossFit [xxx 6:23] teacher, Jason Schroeder, which will be awesome and fun. And then after that I'm basically going to be all around. I've got a mini-seminar that I'm calling it, just a shorter version of my full day seminar. It won't be as much information and won't get as in-depth. But people can definitely ask any questions. That'll be 3 hours, and I'm doing that in Pittsburgh at CrossFit Pittsburgh on…I think I've got that set for, let me see, February-I think that's February 4th. And then February 11th, I'm done in Naples, Florida at CrossFit Redline. February 18th in Wilmington, at CrossFit Riverfront. And February 25th is Santa Rosa at CrossFit Santa Rosa, which I'm psyched about because I'll get to visit my San Francisco peeps that weekend. So yeah, that's the next like 6 weeks or so for me. And hopefully I'll be all healed up by then, you know, because this whirlwind is about to begin. That's what I'm up to. How about you?

LIZ WOLFE: Cool. I have absolutely nothing going on. I'm actually just straight now. I'm sitting on the beach in Mexico feeling like you know, relaxed.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, right.

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah, right. Just total horse-you-know-what. Well, and I want to back up real quick, and just say, like I'm-I just love like this kind of platform to be able to talk to people about the products and stuff that we like. Because this is such a unique community, I mean, we're so small, and we're all kind of talking to each other, talking about different products that we like and different people that we know that are doing really good things, like within their own industries. Like Anthony and Kasandrinos Imports are doing awesome stuff, and obviously, you know, I'm biased towards the PaleoKits stuff because I know, you know, all of them personally. I know the mission. I know the kids that they're training, that they're supporting that training with proceeds from PaleoKits. But I mean, I just overall was thinking about this the other day. Half the stuff that I recommend to people is they're people that I've met, and that I've actually had the chance to talk to and get to know their business ethics and stuff like that. I mean, everything from the cod liver oil that I think both you and I like, from GreenPasture.org, there's a company called Zukay that puts together some really good dressings and kvass and stuff like that. Great Marsh Skincare. I know that they do some really great stuff like, if you're doing something that's you know, that you feel is like unique and follows a certain business ethic, like I personally, I want to hear about it. You know? It's hard to find people that are doing business with great integrity, and if you know somebody that's doing something like that, like throw it out there! I mean, even Tropical Traditions. It's a big company, but I've had personal interactions with them and I really like what they're doing so just throwing that out there. If you know of a company that's doing good work, like definitely let us know about it because it's important that we support these people in what they're doing. I think so.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, I definitely agree.

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah, cool. Well, other than that just for me personally, I've had a couple of people email me through my newsletter and ask me about the No B.S. Guide that I keep talking about. And it is coming out. It's coming out this week for sure. The first 100 copies, like I said, are sponsored by PaleoKits, and after that, I got to say, I don't want to go too deep into it because it's obviously kind of a personal thing for a good friend of mine, one of my closest friends in the world, just one of the-she is just literally the best person I know. She is a wonderful human being. She cares deeply about everybody else first before herself. Her little nephew was born early this month with-oh gosh, I always get it mixed up-I believe it's CDH, and I always mix it up. It's Congenital Diaphragm-Diaphragmatic-oh gosh-Hernia, I believe. I should have had my notes right in front of me. But basically what happened is that his organs developed outside of his chest cavity, and so these babies that are born with CDH have like a 50% survival, and little Killion is doing really, really well right, but he and his family just need all the support that they can get, so what I decided to do was kind of set up a little bit of infrastructure for being able to donate half of the proceeds from the No B.S. Nutrition Guide to kind of the care and feeding of Killion and his family as they deal with this really, you know, really serious issue. So for that reason, I kind of put off that guide a little bit just to make sure I had everything that I wanted in place, but if you are looking for that, definitely sign up for my newsletter, go to CaveGirlEats.com. There's a box at the top right where you can sign up. People on that newsletter list are going to be alerted right when it comes out, so just be ready for that, and proceeds beyond those first 100 copies that are sponsored by PaleoKits are going to help Killion Kane and his family just kind of take care of what they need to take care of during this time, so I'm definitely excited to be able to do that.

And other than that, that's pretty much what's going on with me right now. Just been pretty concerned with that process over the last couple of weeks. I'm also participating in this 30 day kombucha challenge, which I love kombucha personally. Some people think it tastes a little funny, but it's one of my favorite ways to get in some of that good bacteria and it seems to work well for me, so if anybody's interested in that, pop on over to the30daykombuchachallenge.com. But other than that, that's my life lately. So which one of us rambles now, hunh?

DIANE SANFILIPPO: I know, right? No, that wasn't too much rambling. That was good information. I'm really excited for you to be able to help your friend out with that, and I think it's like a double whammy of being able to get some amazing nutrition information into people's hands with your guide, but then, you know, really supporting a good cause, so that's awesome. And I'm glad that we have this platform for you to present it to people, so we'll definitely link to all of that in the post and in the notes and everything. So cool.

LIZ WOLFE: Awesome. Yeah, super grateful for this [xxx 12:56] to be on this platform, so anyway. So jump on in.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: All right.

LIZ WOLFE: Question number one?

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, grab bag questions time. We've got a list today.

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah, it's a-this is a fun episode. This is kind of our grab bag episode where I picked…kind of a lot of the questions that didn't necessarily fit into a category that we already had an overwhelming number of questions for, so this is kind of a mix of grab bag questions and kind of most interesting questions, so I think this should be fun.

All right, first question. “My question is about the Paleo diet and adult acne. I'm 24 years old and have been dealing with acne since I was a teenager. I tend to get acne in my T-zone and around my mouth which my esthetician says is related to digestive issues. That's not surprising because I have dealt with that issue for a few years now. About a year ago I started the Paleo diet and have gotten serious about it within the last 6 months. My digestive issues have improved tremendously but I still seem to have those annoying pimples popping up on my face. What gives? I've done a wee bit of research and came across a proposed liver cleanse..” and I believe we may have talked about this idea before, but I wanted to address it again. This is specifically the egg yolk/liver cleanse and the questioner provided a link for us. She was wondering out opinion on it, whether it was a good idea and if the acne troubles could be rooted in the body's need to cleanse and reset the liver.

And basically what this cleanse is is starting the day with a half of measured cup of raw egg yolks, a half a measured cup of freshly squeezed, basically lime or lemon juice, and a measured tablespoon of virgin coconut oil or extra virgin coconut oil. And here's kind of my take on this, and Diane, you can tell me, you know, what your take on it is, but I…looking at this, I just wasn't 100% convinced. This seems kind of like…I don't know. It seems a little wonky to me. I imagine that because egg yolks help provide the building blocks for bile, because the lemon juice is supposed to like alkinalize or detox the liver, and coconut oil which is generally amazing. I kind of assumed that that's why all of these things were getting thrown into this quote unquote detox type idea. And I know Diane has some notes on this that I'll have her talk about it. But I have no real problem with raw egg yolks if they're from a legit pastured farm-raised chicken. You have to 100% know the source. Like I wouldn't even do that necessarily with quote unquote certified humane eggs from Whole Foods. My buddy Karen Pendergrass of Paleo Approved. She knows a lot about chickens and that's kind of her word on that, and I definitely trust her opinion.
And I was also curious about this kind of lemon juice thing that people talk about a lot. Something that I actually used to tell people to do with, to drink lemon water. I was able to ask Mat LaLonde, who's like Diane's buddy/Paleo, well not Paleo because he hates that word, but he's basically a genius, and I got to ask him about the whole lemon juice thing. And I think while it may be a kind of hippie traditional wisdom thing, which everybody knows, like I love that stuff, like the more crunchy the better. But it's kind of honestly like a wise tale from what I can see. There is a component, you know, in citrus that may provide some health benefit, but according to Mat, it's really only in certain contexts and conditions. You can drive one pathway or you can drive another, and you can't really determine how that's going to work in your body.
So my advice, if you're really worried about acne, is to look at Chris Kresser's most recent, well, not most recent now, but one of his most recent podcasts. It's called Naturally Get Rid of Acne by Fixing Your Gut. And we'll provide a link for that, too. So that's my take, Diane. I'm excited to hear what you have to say about this, so.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Well, the only thing I have to say about the liver cleanse, which I think when you were mentioning the ingredients, I've definitely heard of people doing this before. I think that the reason that they include either coconut oil or olive oil is actually to provoke the gallbladder to release bile, so I think that whole thing is just like a provocation. And it really-I know that a lot of other gallbladder/liver cleanses I've seen people doing are like insane amounts of fat that you're basically drinking down, but I think that's the whole idea that. So I don't really know much about that. I know there's kind of a contingency of practitioners who are really into it. I think a bunch of CHEK practitioners that I know are into it.

I think it's one of those things that I don't know. I'm just not sure that that's the first or even nearly first place I would go. So what you were mentioning with Chris's podcast on fixing acne by fixing your gut, like really most of the stuff comes down to I think more digestive function, blood sugar balance, and hormonal regulation or detox. I mean, those are the three things that like everything we do has to do with like whether you're not digesting properly because you've got some kind of like bacterial overgrowth, whether it's SIBO or some other kind of like gut pathogen or an imbalance of gut flora, so we talk about that a bunch. I don't really need to repeat that. I'm coughing.

So when it comes to acne, it's really…like I really just think you have to go through the motions and go through, like okay, how's my digestion? Like do I feel anything in my digestive process? If not, acne can be a result of poor digestion, so you know, if you're already eating a Paleo diet, there could be certain foods that are still provoking it. One thing I heard, and I don't have a food list for this, but you can probably do a little Google search. I'll put the notes in, but you can look at Chris' podcast, too. He mentioned foods that contain tyromine, histamine, and arginine-those might be provoking acne. He doesn't have a real mechanism to talk about that with, but he's had clients who have avoided those foods because of migraines, but have said their skin cleared up as a result, so it's just one path to go down. And hey, you know, maybe you do a little search and find that foods that you're eating, you know, are loaded with that stuff, and you get rid of them and it works. So cool.

That's most of what I think about that. I think the other thing is that it really depends on, excuse me, where the acne is. So you said, T-zone and mouth, and this is the one podcast that 3 people have tried to call me during.

LIZ WOLFE: [laughs]

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Your T-zone and around your mouth-they might indicate different things. I'm not really sure like what your acne looks like, how intense it is. Is it very cystic or is it just like really very surface? Around the mouth, does it lead back toward your cheek, too? Then that could be a hormonal thing, but if it is your T-zone, that's probably more just indicative of some food intolerances, so I'd just really look at your diet more. Usually, like I was saying, and you can find, like if you do a Google search for, you know, acne skin maps or causes of acne, you'll see some different pictures showing you what I'm talking about, but like usually right around the cheekbones or on the cheek will indicate like a dairy intolerance. I see that a lot. I actually saw that in myself, looking back at some older pictures, and I was feeling some worse acne on my cheek, down by my jawline and into my neck. I was eating raw dairy for awhile, and that used to crop up on my face. I still get some issues around my jawline a little bit, and sort of right next to my mouth, which is more indicative of some hormonal stuff, so what I tend to do for that is look to di-indolyl methane. You can usually find that abbreviated as DIM, and it's just a potent detox supplement, usually for like estrogen detox. I recommend it normally to females, which could really be helpful. I don't know…it doesn't say if this is a female.

LIZ WOLFE: I believe it is.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: But yeah. It doesn't say anything about like any-she doesn't or he doesn't specify, but we don't have a name with it right now, so…Anyway, that's kind of everything I'm thinking. Those are the notes that I have on that. That's pretty much it. But I don't-I just am not a huge fan of stuff like the gallbladder/liver cleanse, until you really do more of the down and dirty to look at your food, look at how you're digesting. Then you can kind of look at some detox stuff after that. That's it.

LIZ WOLFE: All right, cool. All right, here's our second question. All right. A bit of backgrounDiane Sanfilippo: I'm 27 years old, and I'm a female to male transsexual. In the next couple of months, I'm due to start hormone therapy to induce a second puberty. I started to eat Paleo a couple of months ago because I wanted to lose weight. Since then U feel like I've learned a lot more about the effect of diet on things like my depression, but that I'm still rather on the cusp of something unknown. I know from reading what other transguys have experienced, that I will see things like seeming more surly, and other teenage boy like fun. I've also heard that I will experience some menopause like symptoms, such as hot flashes. However, I'm a grown man just trying to get on with my life, rather than seem too much like a teenager. I'm certain that getting things right on my diet will help make a second puberty easier to deal with, but I'm not sure the best way-of the best way to tailor my diet to do this. Doing what I'm doing hasn't helped much with my PMS. I know other transguys who eat Paleo, but I don't know anyone else who has cleaned up their diet, etc., for their transition.

And you know, this is a question I have never tackled before. And when I saw this one pop up, you know, I did want to address it because I think, you know, you never know kind of what people are going through at different kind of changes in their lives, especially like this, so what I wanted to do is just kind of put it to the masses. Is there anybody out there who can kind of offer advice? Who's been there? What do you think, Diane?

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, I definitely like that idea. You know, if someone's been there, or you know, if you have a friend who has, and you want to tell us, you know, what you know about what they did or what their experience was. But I was just-I have general advice for this on supporting healthy hormonal balance, which is, you know, for the most part, avoiding spiking your blood sugar. Blood sugar is the first step in regulating hormones because it will, you know, either dysregulate insulin or not, if you're constantly spiking blood sugar, so that's just the biggest like number one. I would avoid, you know, refined foods, avoid sweeteners, I would, you know, not overload yourself on fruit, and you know, too much starchy food if you're not active. It doesn't mean, don't eat carbs. It just means don't overdo it. And that's kind of the biggest one is that I would really just try and keep your insulin levels in check, especially you know, if you're trying to kind of move to the side of-away from the female side. Because, you know, as we push insulin around more, we're actually-we're actually really driving the female hormones more, and you know, that's only going to be an increase in fat tissue in places that make us look a little more female. So I just wouldn't-I wouldn't push that too much. So I might even say, you know, keep it pretty low carb. It doesn't mean it has to be ketogenic or like 30 grams, but like, I don't know, 50 to 75, 50 to 100 grams a day, you know, 50…I don't know, 50 seems like a pretty comfortable range for most people and it again depends on what kind of activity you're doing.

But then beyond that, I would say to keep your protein intake pretty good, pretty high, just so that you have a good amount of substrate for whatever's going to be happening with other changes. I don't-I definitely don't know much about it, but I know about how to maintain healthy hormone status through diet, and that's pretty much it. So you know, just eating a well-balanced set of foods that you're also getting in healthy fats and just keeping yourself even mood-wise and all of that. That's really all I've got.

LIZ WOLFE: Cool. Yeah, again, we'll put it to the community too, if anybody can reach out, and you know, let us know if they have some thoughts, that would be cool. All right. Next question. We'll do a little, you know, self, you know, pat on the back here. This question starts out: “Before I get to my question, I just have to say, I love your podcast.” In all caps. Thank you very much. “You two are great, and I love that you're sharing your knowledge with us. You've made my journey toward better health hopeful and so much more informed” You know, we'll see how much better informed you are-we're going to test you on all this material. But that was really cool. That's nice to get feedback and you know, I appreciate it. You know, you made me feel all warm and fuzzy.

All right, so here's a question that I kind of like. “I'm wondering where kombucha fits into a Paleo diet. I've been drinking kombucha for years now daily, 8 to 16 ounces per day. I crave it like crazy. I make my own at home and let it ferment for a good amount of time, two week plus to make sure the sugar content is fairly low. I've heard several people comment that drinking kombucha is like taking a daily antibiotic, meaning that continued ingestion is killing good gut flora. What do you think of this? I'm also curious about brewer's yeast. I can't seem to find definitive information on whether it is a good food to be eating. I love the stuff and eat it daily, but wonder if it could be feeding the unfriendly bacteria in my gut because it is yeast-derived. I have so many food intolerance that the thought of cutting out yet another food I love is hard to swallow, but I will absolutely do it if it means better health.”

So what I have to say about this is, like I said earlier on the podcast, I do love kombucha. I'm just making it myself for the first time. I do not love flavored kombucha. I know a lot of the stuff that you can buy at the store is flavored with, I don't know, mango or all kinds of, you know, crazy stuff. I think you need to go with the legit like lowest sugar possible, just normal old kombucha. A little vinegary, but I like it. I use kombucha because I like getting a variety of good bacteria from different sources. Like I've definitely OD'd on sauerkraut. I'm taking a little break from the kraut right now, although, Diane, when you put up your sauerkraut recipe, like, I'm going for it, I'll be back on it. So hurry up with that. Everybody go like Diane's page so she'll put up the sauerkraut recipe.

But anyway, yeah, I think it fits in just fine. It's an ancestral food. My opinion on the objection that it's a problem because you have to use sugar to create it, I think that's a little bit off base just because you know, the bacteria, the yeast that's in kombucha, they're feeding on the sugar. That that's for them, not for you. And you can ferment it to the point that there is hardly any sugar left at all. To me, kind of using that argument is almost like saying, well, cows eat grass, and we can't digest grass, so I'm not going to eat the cow. So just as long as you're getting some getting some good quality stuff, I think a good resource is KombuchaMama.com or KombuchaKamp.com. Kamp with a K. You can kind of learn a little bit more about, you know, the purported health benefits of kombucha, but that said, I do think you need to get a variety of probiotic foods in as is possible, so you're not kind of overdosing on just one strain.

And with regards to the Brewer's yeast, I actually really like Brewer's yeast. I use it as part of my skin care routine, actually. It's supposed to have kind of little x-factor called the glucose tolerance factor, and I have seen it in my nutrition practice that when we kind of up the content of chromium, which is really, really high in Brewer's yeast. When we up that chromium content, I see some really good resolution of blood glucose tolerance problems and stuff like that. So as long as you're getting Brewer's yeast from Lewis Labs, I think you're good to go. That's grown on beets instead of as the byproduct of the brewing process, so that's the one kind of caveat there. But, I don't know, if you're having a lot of food intolerances, maybe that is kind of worth taking a little break from, just in case. So I'm definitely curious about what you have to say, Diane.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: I like this one because it's a little bit polarizing for us. Like we don't usually, you know, have super opposite opinions, and it's not even that I don't think that your opinion is like, valid and correct. I just like don't share the same like life practice of it, I guess.

LIZ WOLFE: Sure, yeah.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: So you know what I mean? Like I'm like yup. I'm with you, Brewer's yeast is a good, really good source of B vitamins. It actually has some protein in it, so you know, with the B vitamins, being a good source of chromium as well, and you know, I think that, like I've had an aversion to Brewer's yeast. Obviously, like, or maybe not obviously, but I don't know. They taught a lot about Brewer's yeast in my school because it was slightly, I think it had a vegetarian-ish slant at the beginning, and things kind of came around a bit. So I think the whole Brewer's yeast thing, like one of my major aversions to it, is just that, you know, it's a go to for B vitamins for a lot of people, but I'd rather people get B vitamins from something like liver. You know, I get it that not everyone's going to eat liver, but I tend to think that like an original source of it, not like something that's derived from something else or grown on something else. I'm just not sure that that's, you know, I don't know. I just don't know how I feel about it. I don't really care that much. I think it probably seems like something maybe that could have been done traditionally, and not like a totally new,, you know, factory food type of thing, but you know. I'm just not the biggest fan of it. It's a little too much of non-whole food. You know? I don't know. I'm just a little, like let's try and eat liver, let's try and get some pate in, but hey, if you love it, I don't really care. You know, I think if you've got a good source. If this one that you recommend is good, and somebody feels good eating it, and doesn't experience any like, you know, bad side effects from it? Whatever. Go for it. I don't really care. It's supposed to taste really good. It's supposed to taste kind of like cheese, so most of us don't eat dairy anymore, and if you're looking for a cheesy taste, that might be a cool way to get it, you know. Sprinkle it on some pizza or some kale chips before you make them. I don't know. If you like it and it works for you, go for it.

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah, why not?

DIANE SANFILIPPO: The other aversion is that is sort of like a fungus, yeasty type of thing, and we were kind of-we were positive that if you just wanted to be careful about that, if you were prone to like yeast infections or fungal infections, to avoid it. That just doesn't sound great to me. You know, I think a lot of people…

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah, oh yeah.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: are prone to those types of things. I think a lot of people are prone to them because they overeat sugar. So if you have a diet that's really clean, you know, it may not cause a problem for you. And then this is part of the question was about like, you know, balancing gut flora and good and bad bacteria. Again, I think if you've got a healthy gut environment, the Brewer's yeast is probably fine. Same thing with the kombucha, but as with anything, you can overdo a good thing. You can overdo raw sauerkraut. You can overdo kombucha.

LIZ WOLFE: Mm-hmm.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: So you have to just check in with yourself, you know. Like we-I can't help someone if your digestion's not working, like what are your eliminations look like? What are all your other signs or symptoms of possibly having, you know, any sort of gut imbalance, which really could be anything. You know? From fatigue and headaches to skin rashes, acne, and digestive distress, or you know, autoimmune conditions, like any of that can be related. So if you're experiencing food intolerances, I would look to some of these food things. I'm not sure. Somebody, you know, if I have a client experiencing a lot of food intolerances, I probably would pull them off the Brewer's yeast, and I probably would pull them off the kombucha at least for a month. If it's something that you've been eating consistently, and it's not, you know, a whole food that I typically is not problematic, I probably would pull you off of it. Even fermented. you know, vegetables, sometimes people have issues with them. You know, you might be experiencing the food intolerances because you're getting so much probiotic content. It could be too much. So, you know, there's only testing, there's no like okay, this is the answer to your problem. That's kind of what I think about that. I think-I think it's interesting that you're-that the Brewer's yeast could be good for some anti-acne protocols that you've seen and blood sugar regulation obviously with the chromium content. I think that's cool. So it sounds interesting. But I would avoid that stuff for at least 2 weeks; like a standard elimination diet usually requires at least 2 weeks time, if not up to the month, which is kind of why a lot of people say with the whole Paleo thing, do it for a month. Which is just standard elimination. Give your body and your gut a chance to reset and re-align.

With regards to kombucha, again it's not my favorite thing to recommend that people do daily, but mostly for the reason like Liz said, when it's in store, which is probably how 95% , if not more, of people are getting it, it's got a lot of added stuff. I think if you want to make it at home, go for it, and, just as Liz, it should taste pretty vinegary. It shouldn't really taste sweet, you know. That's kind of my other thing. I just don't want people to be drinking it because it's sweet and yummy, but I'm all for the balance of those probiotic content. I tried to make kombucha once. And I got a scoby, which is the starter. I got a scoby from a friend, who is another nutrition consultant student a couple years ago, and I took that thing home. First of all, I didn't have enough sugar in the house to even start the whole thing. Like I didn't even have-I think it called for a cup of sugar with the recipe, which that alone was jarring to me. Like I get it that the bacteria eats that, but I was like seriously? I need to buy sugar? You know what I mean? Like I was buying sugar, you know, recently for the body scrub, and one of my friends was like, yeah, but that means your body needs sugar, and like you're feeding into that.

LIZ WOLFE: [laughs]

DIANE SANFILIPPO: with the purchase of sugar. I was like, oh my God, you're right. Can I just use salt? Maybe I can just use salt. Anyway, but you know, part of it's not not wanting to buy sugar to keep it in the house, okay. A little abstract, but fine. I didn't even have enough sugar, so I had this thing going on the counter and like a couple weeks in, I tasted it. It really was like apple cider vinegar, but a little bit less jarring. And that thing turned into the biggest science experiment on my counter, that at a certain point, I was like, oh God, I hope I don't knock it over. I'm like, I need to figure out how to dispose of it and maybe find some rubber gloves. It was really kind of freaky, so anyway. I'm just like, not that great at that stuff. I mean, I'm getting good with the kraut. I know a lot of people are sending me messages on Facebook about like my methods of fermentation being right or wrong or whatever. I'm not really super interested in like every possibility of how to ferment. This is the way that I learned how to do it. It's working for me. My kraut tasted awesome. My digestion felt good eating it for a couple weeks. I'm going with that.

But yeah, anyone who's got some food intolerances going on, I think fermented foods could be kind of problematic. I would, you know, avoid them for a little while. See what your digestion does. See if it helps or hurts. Sometimes it is easier to even, as strange as it sounds, do something like a probiotic supplement for a little while, just because your gut may not be tolerating the type of fiber you're getting from the fermented veggies. It may not be tolerating the types of carbohydrates you're getting, or some of the other by-products of the fermentation. I don't, you know, a bit-such a complex issue of what could be going on. But even people who might have food intolerances from a FODMAP issue, which again goes back to other gut issues that cause you to not be able to digest vegetables and other foods that are considered part of this FODMAP group. But like cabbage is a big one. So you know, if you want to be eating a fermented food that's not a FODMAP, you can try carrots, but anyway, there's just a lot of different things that go into it.

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: You know. I don't drink kombucha regularly at all. I did drink some last week. I was in Whole Foods, and I was getting some bones to make broth because I was all out of the bones that I had at home. And I had started to feel sick, so I was like, shoot, I need to make some broth like stat. And I was feeling kind of sick and I was like, you know what, I'm going to have a kombucha. Maybe the probiotics in this will help my immune system a little bit. And it was one of the those kind of weird, had all this stuff added. I looked at the sugar content. It was very low, and I'm doing the Sugar Detox, and I was like, I can't have this if it's got too much sugar. It was really low-a couple of grams maybe, and I was like, fine. I'm just going to have it. But probably the last time I had one was at least 4 months ago, if not longer. So you know, it doesn't mean it's right for everyone to do that, but that's my take.

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah. Yeah, I think you make some really good points, and I probably should kind of add that kind of qualifier for me. Well, back to the Brewer's yeast, you know, I really…there's not a whole lot of literature about chromium and Brewer's yeast itself as something that would help acne, say, which is what I used it for and continue to use it for. But this is all…my acne stuff, it's all n=1. I do not have the, you know, the patent on, you know, this kind of way to address it. But it works for me. And the reason I went with Brewer's yeast is because it's kind of…it is kind of a natural by-product of a certain process and so I felt like, rather than trying to take a chromium supplement, which is what..the reason I started using it was for the chromium content, rather than go with like an isolated chromium supplement, I kind of wanted to try and get it in a food that had some other kind of co-factors in it that naturally arose from a certain process. But that said, it's still not a whole food, you know what I mean? But it works for me. So if you want to try that, I, you know, I'm not promising anything. I don't have some kind of scientific paper trail, you know, that says it's going to help for one thing or another, but it's worth a try, but I think you need to be really careful that it's not a by-product of beer brewing or anything that has to do with wheat. So that's why I go with the Lewis Labs stuff.

The other thing is that I think Diane's like 100% right on kombucha, you know, kind of being careful with it. I personally do 4 ounces a day. That's it. And that's because I'm participating in this kombucha challenge because I want to find out what it does, you know, to my body with that kind of daily exposure over time. I think one of the benefits of kombucha has to do with some of the by-products of like the fermentation process, but like you said, Diane, like you got to get into it. Like you can't just go buy a bunch of kombucha at the store that tastes like mango, and feel like, you know, you're really going for it. Like I am brewing my own, I'm giving it a whirl, trying to do it right. See how that goes. It's definitely one of those things that you kind of have to invest in the process, I think, if you're actually going to figure it out for yourself on a personal level, so yeah. Definitely…

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, I like that sort of thought process, too. Like, cool, I'm psyched for as many people as possible to go out and buy raw fermented sauerkraut, and you know, I don't think the Bubbie's brand. It doesn't even really taste as sour to me as it used to. You know, I definitely recommend that to people who can't access other brands, but you know, I've had others that definitely taste more legit to me, but they probably add water, really pounding down the sauer-the cabbage-to like have it release its own water. Just kind of a random side note, but I've been eating it for the last couple of days because mine ran out. And I'm like not super in love with it anymore after trying, you know, after eating other kinds that I've gotten at my local co-op or just that I've made.

And then another side note-excuse me-some other chromium rich foods that people might want to just check out if they're looking for that benefit from the Brewer's yeast: liver, as I had mentioned with B vitamins-it's also really rich in chromium. Beef, oysters, green peppers, eggs, chicken, parsnips, lamb chops, scallops, so you know, obviously, if you're looking for a really condensed form, that Brewer's yeast is probably a good one, but if you're eating, you know, some animal foods and getting a well-balanced diet, you know, it's not something you can't find other places in your food, so that's just kind of-that's even just from back from my own notes from before, so…moving on. Next.

LIZ WOLFE: Okay, well, all right. Next question…

DIANE SANFILIPPO: And apparently we have some people listening live, who have sort raised their hands…

LIZ WOLFE: That's crazy.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: I know, like I'm sure people have better things to do than listen to us, but there's at least 3.

LIZ WOLFE: Get back to work! [laughs] All right. Next question: “Hey guys, all right. Ketogenic diet and epilepsy. Do you have any resources for Paleo diet modification helping epilepsy. A family friend's son, I believe he is college age, was recently diagnosed and before I tout Paleo as the cure for anything, I wanted some specific resources to direct her to. ” I think you've got this one, Diane.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: So the first thing about like, you know, touting Paleo as the cure for anything, I mean, it's not like Paleo cures things. It's that what happens as a result of eating whole foods, balancing your blood sugar and fixing your digestive health. That's what tends to help people put symptoms of disease into remission. So you know, I think going back and listening to our Paleo 101, back to 1 and 2 podcasts might be helpful in just kind of addressing some of that thought process around like, Oh Paleo will cure that.

But it's a really good question, and essentially, you know, a Paleo diet in of itself is not a ketogenic diet. A ketogenic diet requires a very, very low carbohydrate intake. And it's pretty well documented in scientific literature that ketogenic diets are helpful for lots of different neurological disorders from epilepsy to Alzheimer's and Parkinson's disease. Pretty much anything that's involving, you know, getting your brain to function properly. You know, the bottom line is getting sugar and excess sugar and excess carbohydrate out of the diet will be helpful. So you know, part of it's that we know that that's helpful for pretty much anyone.
But I did do a little bit of digging just to see if like for example, some of the more, you know, scientific [xxx 45:51] guys had something to say about this, and actually on thePaleoDiet.com, Loren Cordain's website, he had a quote on, actually it was part of his FAQs. Excuse me, it says, ” Most of the scientific data on ketogenic diets concerns the treatment of refractory epilepsy in children. Ketogenic diets have been shown to reduce the number of seizures and are routinely prescribed as a therapeutic modality for this illness. Ketosis is caused by the metabolism of dietary fat when carbohydrate is unavailable or during starvation. Ketosis elevates blood levels of two ketone bodies, which provide the brain with a non-glucose substrate, thereby sparing muscle tissue from metabolic destruction for glucose synthesis. Remember, except for ketones, the brain can only use glucose as fuel.” So that was a quote from Loren Cordain. And potentially, what he's saying is when we can get the body out of the state of a carbohydrate overload and allow the brain to fuel itself on primarily ketones as opposed to too much glucose, we can calm down some of these issues.

So what I would recommend for this person would be possibly to, you know, and this might be difficult. I mean, you never know how to approach something. I think it's best when you are sort of more gentle with your approach, and say, hey, I'm pretty sure I read something about, you know, a different type of diet that could really help that. You know, don't be like, oh my God, Paleo will fix that, and just assume that you know that this will do everything, but…Just approach it from that perspective of just being intrigued, and saying you think you saw something about it, or something to that effect. But what can be quite therapeutic and Cordain mentioned this, about fasting or starvation is actually having around at least a 24 hour fast completely before starting a ketogenic diet, to just again help the body to release that a bit. especially, you know, and it depends on how severe the seizures are, how frequent they are. But having a little bit of a fast and starting into a ketogenic diet, and I would say, even at first, start into it as a cyclic ketogenic diet, so meaning possibly 3 days on, one day off, where he's eating a very low carbohydrate, maybe around 30 or maybe between 30 and 50 grams of carbs per day, and getting a good amount of healthy fats in, fats that we've discussed a million times before on this podcast. You know, moderate amounts of protein, but good amounts of fat and you know, 3 days on of that, and then one day off where maybe he goes up to a full 100 grams of carbohydrate. I don't know what kind of activity he's doing, you know, how much carbohydrate he might need to fuel that, but the reality is, you know, he could try this. It's pretty livable. It's really not that hard, you know, it's meat, veggies, and fats, and then on the off days, it's a little more of the starchy tubers and some other veggies. Maybe some fruit. But if that seems to work well, then great. If it's not working, if it's not therapeutic enough, it may need to be a little bit more strict. Maybe it's 5 days on, one day off. Or maybe it's just always very, very low carbohydrate.

So that, you know, that approach is definitely one that I would recommend, and I think that, you know, the cyclic approach is a little less jarring. I don't know again how frequent the seizures are, and how quickly he would notice the change. But I mean, I would absolutely, you know, love to hear from them, and you know, if the parent, if you want to share this post with them, and they want to come chime in and tell us what's going on, what they're doing, that would be cool. We can definitely help out a little bit further. I will have some more information on, you know, what a ketogenic diet might look like in my book when that comes out, so you know, of course, that will not be for about maybe 6 months, but when that's ready, you know, there will be a meal plan in there that people can use for all different types of neurological disorders, and at least a baseline or something to start with, so yeah, that's…it is definitely a helpful, and it's not just a Paleo thing necessarily, but obviously, you know, eating grains and beans won't help keep the carbohydrate intake low, so…that's pretty much. Yeah, that's my take on that.

LIZ WOLFE: Cool. All right, so since we are rounding out an hour right now, I'm going to pop on down to my favorite question for the day, which is about our…people love Paleo pets, Diane. I want to make sure we get that answered. All right, here's the question: “First of all, love love love the podcast. I referred it to many Paleo seekers, and am currently on Day 3 on Diane's 21 Day Sugar Detox level 3. Today has been rough, but I'm ready to start winding down for bed. Almost done.

My question is probably a little odd, but in doing some blog stalking, I noticed Liz has a gorgeous brindle patterned pup who looks healthy and happy. I have two massive, but adorable pups that I want to be healthy and happy for a very long time. I also have two cats; yes, I have a small zoo, and I think Diane has mentioned having a cat before.” Paleo Kitty, yes. ” The cats drive me crazy, but I want them to be healthy and happy for a long time, too. So here's my question: what do you do to feed-what do you feed your pets and is it pet Paleo? I have to assume the processed garbage I'm feeding them right now is no better for them than the processed foods I used to eat. But I have no idea what to feed them, how much, and how often. If you feed them Pet Paleo, how much more expensive is it than kibble? Any thoughts would be helpful. My husband is Paleo-resistant, but I think I could get the quote unquote kids on board pretty easily.”

So this is…I love this question. I do feed my dog, who's the coolest dog ever. I feed him raw…and at the very least, when we first started out, we did feed him grain-free kibble. We fed him Orijen for awhile, but now we do actual raw food. And you can order some whole prey chickens from Tropical Traditions. If you're interested in doing that, you can order small servings of raw dog food from U.S. Wellness Meats. I do think it's important to maintain like the same standard that we look at for ourselves, that it's from a good source, that it's well kept. You don't want a bunch of factory farmed meat. I don't think that raw in your dog's diet is a good idea. But you can also grind your own. I mean, if you're part of a cow share or something like that, you can grind up, you know, some of the organs, some of the raw meat, stuff like that. And I think it's really important if you can do it. Sometimes it takes a little resourcefulness because buying raw food from like a retail source can get really expensive, but just start talking to people. Talk to, if you have a kennel that you use, find out if the proprietor is kind of on board with the raw, and they can often get it wholesale. Just start talking to people, see if you can be resourceful about that stuff because I think, you know, we do want to kind of avoid these modern diseases that our pets are starting to suffer from, and I think it's a good…I think it's a good place to look. So Diane, tell us about Paleo Kitty.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: [laughs] I'm surprised. You know, I actually don't have any pictures of Paleo Kitty on my blog. I'm going to have to work on that because, you know, the stalking ability of our listeners is obviously going to be a little bit lower, but Paleo Kitty does have a Facebook page, so that was not my original thought. Somebody told me I needed to start a page for him, whatever that's about. Anyway, so I had a cat-excuse me-who a couple years ago got really sick, and she had always been a little bit, you know, chunky and I didn't really know what was going on with her, but I think I probably fed her like the cheapest food possible. You know, I got her when I was in college, and had her for a long time. I mean, I was feeding her like $3 a bag Trader Joe's food, and like, no, you know, no shame shopping at Trader Joe's, but it just was not the right thing to be feeding her. And my take on it is like, you know, would you-well, some people do, maybe, but-it's like feeding your pet cereal for every meal every day. Like not only are cats carnivores who-they really can't tolerate plant matter at all. If my Paleo Kitty chews on some chives, for example, like he'll throw that right back up. It just doesn't work for him, and you know, they're interested in that, but it's not what they can digest at all.

So my cat got kind of sick and it turned out she had some kind of-I don't know if it was like kidney failure or if she had, you know, fluid building up around her lungs, and then they drained her of the fluid, and all of sudden she was like kind of skinny or normal-looking, and I just had no idea for how long that fluid had been building up, and she had really been sick pretty much for probably years and I just had no idea. Had no other signs or symptoms other than I just thought she was kind of a heavier cat. So anyway, when she passed, after you know, a couple of months of taking her to the vet, and I just was like there has to be a better way to deal with this, and I had been studying nutrition for a long time, and it finally like dawned on me that of course, my cat needs to be eating what he or she is, you know, is intended to eat from nature. So I think I checked out…somebody gave me a copy of Pottenger's Cats, and I don't know what the deal is like, the Weston A. Price Foundation…didn't it use to be called the Pottenger's-Price Foundation or was that a separate foundation? Anyway, I don't know.

LIZ WOLFE: It's separate.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: It's a separate foundation?

LIZ WOLFE: The Pottenger-Price Foundation is separate, but it is involved like with the Weston A. Price Foundation.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, so anyway, I got a copy of Pottenger's Cats, and read it. You know, it's talking all about, you know, experiments and that [xxx 56:20] and different generations of cats, and looking at their health and how robust they were, and you know, their reproductive abilities, and it just made sense. You know, the same way eating Paleo made sense to me as a human, you know, cats eating the natural diet, especially a raw diet just made sense to me. So as soon as I got Paleo Kitty, his name's actually Nathan, but I call him Paleo Kitty. As soon as I got Nathan, you know, they probably sent me home with food the first day, and I gave it to him, and then I started giving him saucers of raw milk. Little tiny saucers for the tiny kitten. So tiny saucers of raw milk. That was cow's milk, and I was drinking that myself at the time, just to see if he would take to it. And he did. And I didn't really feed him the raw milk for too long. He probably had little bits of it for a couple of months. But pretty quickly I started giving him little tiny bits of raw chicken. Just cut up, raw, I'd get organic, you know, something that's like what Liz said, you know, not the conventional. I don't tend to feed him all pastured chicken. It's very expensive and hard to get for me, so I do at least get organic, antibiotic free, whatever. As much as, you know, I don't tend to eat that stuff for myself, he seems like a strapping young lad, so I'm okay with it for him for now. I think it's still, you know, a really good option.

So he tends to eat…so you know, he picked up on that just fine, and some people are always like asking me about transitioning. And you really have to do it very slowly, if you've been feeding a cat kibble for, you know, 8 years, don't expect to throw down a piece of chicken and you know, let him have at it because he'll probably turn his nose up at it. But he gets-Paleo Kitty gets mostly chicken, just because it's easy and I think it makes more sense that he likes smaller animals rather than feeding him beef or bison or lamb, which he does get sometimes, primarily if that's what I have defrosted and don't have something else for him. I don't go as, you know, full on a getting him live prey, or recently killed live prey kind of deals. They have that at Tropical Traditions. I just saw it, and I did just order him some chicken from there, just to see how that, you know, how that works out. But he gets mostly chicken thighs, sometimes boneless, skinless, sometimes bone-in, skin-on, just kind of whatever I pick up at the grocery store, and I do shop for him where I shop for myself, so Whole Foods or sometimes Trader Joe's. That's just the meat. And I cut it up into like one or two inch chunks. I don't throw the whole thing down just because he'll literally pick it up and drag it across the house. Like if I threw down a chicken thigh, he could totally eat that. He'll chew it, he'll shake his head, and get it to rip apart. But I just don't need that ending up like half under my bed because he'll carry it around like prey, it's really funny because it's like he's almost like a dog sometimes. Like he'll pick up a bone from my plate, and like take it somewhere and chew on the ends of it. But anyway, so he'll get chicken. He'll get organ meats, and those I do try and get only pasture-raised. I did find Bell &Evans brand at my local Whole Foods for livers, and the first time I bought them, they were really dark and good looking, and I was like, okay. I'm going to go with it. If you find organ meats that look, you know, light colored and fatty, I wouldn't do that, but chicken livers, chicken hearts, which I'm having a hard time getting, so he's going to get lamb heart this week. Gizzard. Whatever I can get in terms of organ meats. Any time we get a whole chicken, any of that stuff that comes out, you know, he gets the gizzards and all of those other organs that come out of there. That's perfect for them.

What else? So I don't grind up his food at all. I grind only egg shells so in terms of like getting balanced nutrition, and this is something that I do plan on writing, you know, a post on at some point. Like talk about posts I'm going to write very often, but, you know, this is part of the hiring an assistant or two. I'll get to it when I have some help but…they need to get, you know, their protein and their fats, but they also, at least for cats. I'm not sure of the special nutrient needs for dogs, but with cats, you need to make sure that they're getting taurine, which is an amino acid that's beneficial for their vision. So you find that primarily in organ meats, and I think it's most concentrated in the heart. And then calcium, which they can get from eating bones, like chicken thighs. If I give him a raw chicken thigh, and usually when you give bones, you want them to be raw because they're more pliable and soft. They're not tough shards that can get stuck anywhere and puncture anything. But if I give him a chicken thigh cut up and then the bone on the plate with just a little bit of meat on it, he'll eat the meat off of that and then chew the ends off. And that's like a lot of the cartilage and getting a little bit of bone, but then he'll leave kind of like the center of it. So that's his own instinctual way with that, so I'm good with that, but sometimes I also grind up egg shells from my good pastured eggs. Grind those up for some calcium and just sprinkle it over his food. I grind it up pretty finely and he will-he'll just have at it. He'll eat the chicken or whatever it is covered in egg shell dust. I've been doing that lately because I haven't had a lot of chicken necks for him, so.

I don't do it as an everyday thing, like he has to get a balance of these things every day. I just try and make sure I rotate things in. But what I know about the, you know, the percentage of how it should break down, from what I did in my research was that, you know, about 80% of what they eat should be the meat, the muscle meat. And then about 10% maybe bones, 10% organ meat. That's what I remember reading and I've just kind of stuck to that. I don't know. I don't know how healthy he is. He looks strapping, he [xxx 1:02:26] what he eats. His coat looks great. His eyes look great. He's happy, loving cat who plays a lot and I don't take him to the vet. I took him to the vet in the very beginning, just because he came from a SPCA, and they started a couple rounds of shots, and that was a couple years ago. But I don't really see a need to take him unless he's sick. He's an indoor cat. But I think that's part of it, too, like as we are with ourselves, with our food and the way we handle like potentially medical care or prevention. I see his diet as preventing him from needing to go to the vet.

LIZ WOLFE: Mm-hmm.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: And in terms of cost, I mean, that's one way to keep costs down, right? Like not going to the vet either annually or with problems. But he also-he's around another cat now, too, but neither of them really go outside really, so not too worried about it.

And in terms of cost, I don't know. I'm going to guess it costs me a dollar a day to feed him. I really don't know for sure, but that's probably a good estimate. I think it's well worth it for the friendship with my little furry pal. And stuff I do kind of in a pinch or if I forget to defrost something, or I just needed to keep something else around, like if somebody else is watching him and, you know, I'm away, and then my trip is extended for a couple of days, I've used Primal Brand. It's a frozen-it's a frozen raw cat food that comes in little blocks. So you can kind of pick out how many blocks you need, depending on the size of your pet. I've also used a brand called Peeky Cat. They have a canned cat food. It's not like the cleanest, you know, and some of the ingredients are questionable. I try and avoid the ones that have any soy or anything like that. But I think it's good in a pinch. You know, he's eaten that a handful of times when I've just come back from a trip and don't have something else defrosted. But it's been, you know, it's lot of actual feed meat in there, actual meat. And then often I'll give him like a can of wild salmon, and I'm like, well, I was lazy, so lucky you. You get a can of salmon right. [laughs] And that costs like 3 bucks, you know from Trader Joe's. That's probably the most expensive thing he gets, but yeah, he's a small to average sized cat. I want to say he eats around 6 ounces of food a day, and he eats anywhere from 4 to 8, depending on the day.
And he doesn't drink much water. He does drink water…

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah, I was like yeah.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: But not a lot.

LIZ WOLFE: You'll definitely notice that.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, he mostly will swat at it. yeah, he'll swat at it, and like try and play with it, or half knock it over. But if you're feeding a pet raw food, just when we eat Paleo for the most part, you don't need to chug tons and tons of water when the food you're eating is rich in water. If you're eating very dehydrating foods, like refined products and grain products, you know, sugar, all that, and you're dehydrated, sure, you need to chug lots of water. But you know, pets who have been eating a raw food diet won't actually need as much water as another pet. Their pee is just fine without drinking water. I never leave the water out for him. He would drink it now and then but usually he just made a mess. I was like, forget you. [laughs] You know, I'd give him some, but I was like this is-I'm not dealing with that. We don't need 4 ounces of water spilling on the floor every day, so yeah. Yeah. That's Paleo Kitty's world. He gets…

LIZ WOLFE: Paleo Pets for the win. Winning! Paleo Pets.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, he gets some jerky as a treat, too. But like, you know, just raw dehydrated stuff. That's it.

LIZ WOLFE: All right, well, I think we're done for the day.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: I think we're done for the day. Yeah, we've officially had a live show. I know that we've got Maura really excited listening. I don't know who else is tuned in, a couple of people, but this will go live through BlogTalkRadio and iTunes shortly, and people can catch it today. And that's it. Until next week.

LIZ WOLFE: All right. See everybody next week.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: See ya.

LIZ WOLFE: Peace out.

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