Balanced Bites Podcast: Episode #3: Natural Beauty Products, Paleo vs. Low Carb, Crazy Sugar Cravings, Adding Foods Back to AI Diet Protocol, Paleo Nutrition Education

Susan asks: “I've been “doing Paleo” for about 8 weeks or so. And I have been eating pretty healthy for several years before that (biggest change since going Paleo was kicking the oats and a little bit of dairy), and I'm quite active athletically. But I still get occasional crazy sugar cravings, which I…ahem… occasionally  give in to. Like crazy! Do you have any tips for kicking those dang sugar cravings once and for all?! What is happening chemically when one experiences such cravings?”

• Notes: Turn Down the Lights, Turn Up Your Metabolism, Laura Knoff's book on nutrition for IBS.

#4: Adding foods back to an AI paleo diet protocol?

Lindy asks: Hi! Thanks for starting a podcast – I love your blog! I am currently on an autoimmune paleo diet for ankylosing spondylitis (spinal rheumatoid arthritis). By ditching egg whites, nuts, nightshades, starch, dairy, and fruit, I have stopped using the heavy meds like Humira, NSAIDs, and high doses of Prednisone. The only thing I'm currently taking is Low Dose Naltrexone (LDN).

Despite this success for 2 months, I'm not even able to add winter/summer squash or sweet potatoes back into my diet. I'm losing so much weight that my coworkers are disturbed. I'm eating TONS of meat, avocado, coconut milk, olive oil, and as many non-starchy veggies as I can. What can I do to increase my weight on this diet, and from your experience, will I ever be able to add things back into my diet?”

#5: Paleo nutrition education and putting it into practice.

Ian asks: “Hello Ladies, and congrats on the new podcast! Question: What suggestions could you make for someone wanting to get into Paleo/Primal/WAP nutrition as a career? What path education-wise would you suggest? Nutrition Therapy Association? RD? I'd like 2 answers if you can, one from the perspective of starting off from scratch, and one from the perspective of already being a health professional.

My background: In my case, I'm an RN working on my NP. However, I would really like to incorporate Paleo in to my care, and ultimately open up a private practice specializing in “Diabesity”. Thanks, Ian aka “The Japsican”

• Notes: Read my post on turning nutrition education into a career here.

Click here to submit questions.

Cheers!
Diane & Liz

LIZ WOLFE: Hi everyone, I'm Liz Wolfe, sidekick to Diane Sanfilippo of Balanced Bites., and welcome to, what are we, episode 3 of the Balanced Bites podcast? Is that where we're at?

DIANE SANFILIPPO: We are. Episode 3. This is kind of exciting.

LIZ WOLFE: Wow.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah.

LIZ WOLFE: This is super exciting. So what's going on with you, Diane?

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Not too much. I'm in New Jersey for a few weeks now, just hanging out. It's nice and mild. The weather's nice and humid, and just you know, just visiting with friends and family. Visiting with my grandma, who just turned 89. I know that some people have seen pictures of her I posted up on Facebook.

LIZ WOLFE: Good for her.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, she's a riot. She's really cute. Eating her gluten free stuff. Yeah, so hanging out with her and friends, and checking out my little home away from home gym in Montclair, New Jersey, the Guerilla Fitness. I really love training there, so yeah, enjoying myself, doing work while I'm here and hanging out in the same time zone as you. [laughs] How are you doing?

LIZ WOLFE: Incredible. I'm awesome now that the-see, now I'm not going to ever eat it, which is, you know, 50% sad, but the other 50% is happy that Ben and Jerry's has come out with a Schweddy Balls ice cream.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: [laughs] I saw that. Oh my God.

LIZ WOLFE: I actually blushed because of the ingredients.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: I'm following Alec Baldwin. I did try and get a tweet in there and see if he'd respond, but you know, he's got like 300,000 followers. Yeah, I saw you posted that, and I went to check the ingredients, just to see if there's any gluten in there and damn, there's malt balls in it. So yeah, it's a no for me. I'm kind of bummed about that, yeah.

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah. So bummed.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: If anybody tries it…

LIZ WOLFE: Besides the- Let us know how it is. At some point, we're going to have Alec Baldwin on the show. Uh, just kidding.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: [laughs]

LIZ WOLFE: He is a vegan, though, so whatever we tweet him…

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Stop it, really?

LIZ WOLFE: We'll have to post it here. Yeah, that's what I've heard.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Well, he and Bill Clinton can stand up together for veganism and let everyone know what that looks like. One way or the other, so…

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah. Ten years ago…

DIANE SANFILIPPO: I'm going to get some haters.

LIZ WOLFE: What's that?

DIANE SANFILIPPO: I said, I'm going to get some haters now, but neither of them is really a picture of health at this point.

LIZ WOLFE: Not at all. Alec Baldwin is actually kind of thickened and changed shape a little bit in the last couple of years, and I've wondered if that has anything to do with it, but that's..

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, I had no idea he was vegan.

LIZ WOLFE: That's the rumor. Somebody, you know, if someone wants to correct me, say…

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Okay. Yeah, I'm curious about that.

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah. Anyway, do you have any announcements for everybody?

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, well, first up, I want to say thank you to everybody who's been downloading the podcast, listening on BlogTalk radio, and just kind of checking it out, but we are going to try to get the feed into a couple of other avenues. People have been asking for it on Stitcher so I'll look into that when I have a free minute or however long. But I do want to say thank you and to anyone who has gone into iTunes, if you wouldn't mind just giving us a rating or leaving a review, that would be fantastic. Jimmy Moore…

LIZ WOLFE: Only if it's a good review…

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Hmm?

LIZ WOLFE: Only if it's a good review. If it's not, go fly a kite.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Jimmy Moore left a really nice review, so thanks to him. That's really fantastic. And we did get one where someone was complaining about the sound quality, which we're aware of it. Okay, we're trying to figure out the best case scenario, so we're not in the same place, we have dial-ins, whatever. So we're working on it, we're aware. We'll constantly try and improve that. Today we're doing something a little different than the last time, so it might be a little different. And then, what else? Oh, so really cool that people are downloading and listening because we've been featured under iTunes Health podcasts under the New and Noteworthy section, so right up there with a couple of interestingly titled other podcasts, and if anyone wants, check that out. It's just really cool to see that and I'm just really excited that people are listening and submitting some really, really great questions. So thanks for that. Some upcoming seminars this week in Philly, so this podcast will go live Wednesday and the seminar will be that Saturday all day at Crossfit Center City on September 17th, then back in the Bay Area in Manteca, CA at Crossfit Excel October first, and then back to northern New Jersey, I'll be at Crossfit ACT November 12th, so all those dates are available on the website, BalancedBites.com. Excuse me, I wanted to let people know also about another nutrition consultant and graduate from Bauman College, where I went to school. Her name is Julie Matthews, and she specializes in nutrition for autism, and she's holding a three hour seminar in Phoenix, Arizona on September 20th-it's a Tuesday and I think it's a three hour seminar at 6:30 at night, like $35, so if anyone in that area wants to check it out, it'll definitely be worth your money. Her website is NourishingHope.com, and we'll put a link to that on the page. And she-I don't even know if she knows that I'm going to be announcing that-I just saw it and thought it was really cool and I know that she does promote a lot of the same kind of ideas around like gluten and casein fee, especially for autism, so definitely check out her seminar. And that's it from me, other than the fact that I am on the East Coast for awhile and will be back and forth. I'll be back and forth all fall and winter, so if people are looking for me. [laughs] I'm all over.

LIZ WOLFE: Awesome.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: What about you? What's going on?

LIZ WOLFE: Pretty much just one thing. For folks that don't know, I'm the Nutrition Advisor for Steve's Original Paleo Kits. Paleo Kits supports Steve's Club, which if you haven't heard of that before, it's an organization that basically provides athletic training and Crossfit training and mentorships to at-risk youths. We took the show on the road to the Crossfit Games for the youth competition this year and it was awesome. But in any event, that's the supporting company for Steve's Club, and our newsletter's going to go out here, I think, on the 15th, and we're going to be offering an introductory nutrition guide for people to download. And I think it should complement your guides, I think, Diane, I think pretty well, so keep an eye out for that if you don't subscribe to the newsletter, we'll see about making that available though a couple of other avenues, but just be on the lookout for that.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Cool. Sounds good.

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: I'm excited to see what you have put together there. So yeah.

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah, hopefully it-

DIANE SANFILIPPO: So people can just subscribe to the newsletter and they can get that from StevesOriginal.com?

LIZ WOLFE: Correct. And in any event, we'll make it available for the first time too through that newsletter. And it's one of those things that, you know, feel free to share the link, you know, with anybody that you feel like it could be helpful to. And yeah, hopefully, we'll make it available through the website itself, but it's just going to start out just as a newsletter type of situation. I'm just not tech savvy enough to do all this stuff by myself, and as much as I like to pick your brain, Diane, you don't work for me, so [laughs] I feel like I should have to pay you an hourly fee for all the tech stuff that I've been asking you lately.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Oh, I'll do the best I can to help you out, so…

LIZ WOLFE: Thank you, thank you.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: All right, so looking forward to seeing that. Cool.

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah. Shall we get to do some questions?

DIANE SANFILIPPO: All right, let's do this.

LIZ WOLFE: Definitely. Okay, question number one and I'm excited about this one. It's from Amber, and let's see. “This isn’t food related, per se, but it’s “clean living” related. So here goes. I’m trying to get all the toxins out of my beauty products and switch over to more natural products. I’ve already started using ‘deodorant' made from coconut oil, baking soda and arrowroot and it’s working fantastically without putting aluminum in my pits (yay). So I have a couple questions about other beauty products: 1 – hair color. Is it even safe? Is there a certain brand I should ask for or should I just kick this habit? 2 – can you recommend a paraben/toxin free shampoo & conditioner I should try?” And I'll tackle all these together at the end. 3 – “I don’t think I will ever stop wearing mascara. Is there a brand that is more ‘natural' than the others?4 – face wash? The only products I use that don’t break me out or dry me out are filled with really bad stuff (mineral oil, parabens, very chemical laden) – what should I do here? Thanks!” All right, so!

DIANE SANFILIPPO: I like this question…

LIZ WOLFE: Why?

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Because I have a lot of the same questions. I'm like with the hair color and the mascara. I'm like I have to hear what Liz has to say about this because I'm really not an expert on this at all. So I'm psyched to have you answer this for her. Cool.

LIZ WOLFE: I'm super excited that people are talking about this stuff. I think it's awesome. I think it's a natural extension of the whole Paleo/Primal lifestyle is to take care of yourself from the inside out, and then do what you can from the outside in, because really, I mean your skin is your biggest organ, you know? It's not something that just sits idly by while you put a bunch of crap on it. It really does-it absorbs things, so you know, you want to take care of it. As far as hair colors go, you know, I don't know a whole lot about lightening the hair. I mean, obviously the whole lemon juice, you know that stuff in the sun, but as far as like dyeing your hair, I'm not a fan of almost any, even organic hair dye. There are a couple companies that do, you'd have to call them I think to locate a salon. And as far as henna goes, Lush has a good henna product, Mountain Rose Herbs has some good henna, and henna can be really fun if you ‘re willing to learn and do your homework and research, research, research because some of these natural henna dyes that you can buy are absolute junk, and it's a terrible idea. You want like pure henna, and you've got to do a ton of research beforehand. Read everything you possibly can about it. Henna can be a big fat mess, so you're going to need a lot of newspaper, rubber gloves, etc, etc. So you know, I really do like henna, I think it's fun and it's really nourishing if you get the right stuff.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Is that-is henna always to the red side or brown side? I don't really know much about the colors of that. It's kind of the hunch I have about it. Is that true?

LIZ WOLFE: Generally, yes.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Or can it be any color? Okay. Mostly browns.

LIZ WOLFE: Most of what you can find, yeah, pretty much reds and browns. What's fun about henna-I mean, you can add like cinnamon to it, and it will shift the color ever so slightly. It's really, really fun. If you've got like a brick and mortar store around you like Lush that sells henna, you'll probably find black, less black, brown, and red.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Okay.

LIZ WOLFE: And it's a commitment. It'll last about 3, 4 months.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Wow.

LIZ WOLFE: So, you know, it's not something that you can just wash out after a couple weeks, but in the end, you know, it's just hair. You know? I mean…

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah. I'm big on the hair coloring thing, so..yea, I'm big on the coloring, not on the cutting, so yeah, cool.

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: That's good to know.

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah, yeah.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Okay, cool, so.

LIZ WOLFE: It's been months since I cut my hair and dyed my hair, since I discovered a couple of grays last year, and I'm still on that train of picking them out every time I see one, but that's going to have to stop eventually.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yikes, my friends are convinced that my grays aren't showing because I have blonde, so I'm like, eh, I don't know about that. But anyway. All right, well, what should we do about shampoo?

LIZ WOLFE: Okay, now I do, well, people can go to my blog to kind of look for a little bit more about this stuff. ‘Cause I've addressed almost all of these on my blog, CaveGirlEats.com. There's a body care tab that you can see some of my experiences with this type of stuff. And I also actually write a body care column for Paleo Magazine. And you can go to, you can get to Paleo Magazine from CaveGirlEats.com. So with shampoo, I personally, and I know Haley from Primal Palate, she does this as well. We both do the No ‘Poo method, which sounds gross, but it…

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Horrible.

LIZ WOLFE: Not what you think. Basically, I wash my hair with baking soda a couple times a week, and condition it with apple cider vinegar. The apple cider vinegar is really clutch 'cause it re-balances the pH, and makes it really shiny, smooth, real nice. Another thing you can do if you don't want to go that far, you can mix like Dr. Bronner's Castile Soap or something like that with a little bit of coconut milk. You can get a real nice lather with that. I had a commenter recently say that lye soap works really well, and I absolutely love a brand called Gramma's Lye Soap. It's not super easy to find, but if you can find that, I've got that linked on my blog as well. And always condition with the apple cider vinegar. That's really the key element. Yeah.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: We'll put a link to your blog and some of these posts. We'll link to that in our show notes so that people can hop on over to your site and get some of those details.

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah, well, I mean like, I'm a stinky hippie when it comes to personal care. Well, not stinky, but I'm definitely a hippie. But…

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, I stink right now. [laughs] I thought, Liz, what should I use to not be stinky?

LIZ WOLFE: To not stink? Well, I went through a long and trying process with that, so, you said you were going to work out today at some point?

DIANE SANFILIPPO: I heard about this.

LIZ WOLFE: Oh gosh.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, I heard about your “stank rank” thing?

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah. That's the “Stank rank” thing. That's on the blog, too. And I have to tell you, too, when I was going through all of that, trying to find something that would be acceptable like as a substitute for deodorant, I, oh my gosh, like the only thing, well, the only thing worse than going to work out and like doing a push press or something and realizing as your arms go up in the air how badly you stink, is…well, the only thing worse than that is realizing that you didn't shave your armpits that day, but that…

DIANE SANFILIPPO: [laughs] Yeah, I was just thinking that! Or that you've got some kind of giant lint ball.

LIZ WOLFE: [laughs] Or some kind of debating thing that…

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Some giant lint ball from the sweatshirt. I've looked down and thought, oh my god, they must think that that's my pit hair, and it's totally not. [laughs]

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah! Anyway. Oh, shared experiences, I love it. So anyway, so with that, basically what I landed on. I tried every single natural deodorant I could. Me and AndreAnna, from LifeAsAPlate.com, we did some experimenting on this. She's awesome. And I'm pretty sure we both landed on coconut oil and baking soda. Which sounds like it's what Amber landed on as well, and I think that's the best deodorant you can possibly come up with. It's deodorizing, it's you know.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: That's the best.

LIZ WOLFE: It's great, so, you know, try that before you go to the gym.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Is that recipe or formula, whatever-is that on your blog, too? How to mix it up and use it?

LIZ WOLFE: It is.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Okay. I'll check that out.

LIZ WOLFE: It's super easy and the way-Bubble and Bee is a website that I like, and they do sell really basic, simple deodorants in stick form. But I just lifted a couple of-you know those little tiny things they have at hotels with syrup and jelly in them?

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yup, yup.

LIZ WOLFE: Little tiny mason jars. I just take a couple of those, empty them out, and put coconut oil in one and baking soda in the other, and just kind of dip your finger in the one, give it a swipe, and then put some baking soda on top of it.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Okay.

LIZ WOLFE: It's just really convenient, super easy.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Well, that's good.

LIZ WOLFE: And that's how I do that.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: How do you feel about essential oils too in terms of scents and things like that? Because that's something that I've been trying from Whole Foods and some other, you know, natural grocers that have essential oils to kind of…

LIZ WOLFE: Mm-hmm.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: give kind of a nice scent. I'm not really into perfumes. They kind of make me choke, but the essential oils seem to have nice smells, but is that bad news? Should you be using them?

LIZ WOLFE: No, I, honestly, as long as you-you should definitely spot test anything that you're using that you're going to mix essential oils with, because some of them, like say, you know, I really like clove oil or oregano oil for like anti-bacterial type properties, like when you're coming down with something. I think you told me about that.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

LIZ WOLFE: But if you put those on your face, like on a zit, say, they will burn your face off. And so, you have to be real careful.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, I would never do that, but…

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah, you would never do that.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, I was thinking more of the more, you know, some people like flowery scents or musk scents or vanilla or coconut scents.

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah, yeah.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Like, essential oils for like to mix into a deodorant type of situation. All right. Cool. How about mascara? Is it still?

LIZ WOLFE: Mascara. That's a tough one.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Where were we? Yeah, that's next.

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah, I mean, I really do like…See, I do have to wear mascara and I've tried like some vitamin E with some activated charcoal for a little, like a paint almost. But it smudges. If you've got long eyelashes, it's probably not going to work. So I think the best most people will be able to so with mascara is to make sure that it's gluten free, which surprisingly a lot of cosmetics are not gluten free. And there are some decent brands out there. Arbonne-all of their makeup is gluten free. So that's a good guarantee, you can just kind of know across the board that it will be. And gluten obviously like, it's a little different when you have it on your skin. It's not necessarily going to make it into your bloodstream, but if you've got a cut or whatever…

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Or if you're really sensitive. Yeah, if you're really sensitive or if you're celiac, then yeah, good to know.

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah. You want to get that out of there, as many things as you can. So Arbonne is all gluten free. My favorite makeup is Jane Iredale. It's a really good brand. There's a couple of other good ones out there. And if anyone out there has suggestions for makeup, send them in. You know.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah.

LIZ WOLFE: I'm always looking for-looking to learn about this stuff. All right, so I'm kind of rambling on here, so we'll move to face wash. I use the oil cleansing method. I absolutely love it. It's a little bit time consuming, and you can read about it on my blog as well, but it's super nourishing. I love coconut oil as a moisturizer. I love jojoba oil as a moisturizer. And if you want something a little quicker, that lye soap is super gentle, non-irritating; it's really lovely. So if you need a soap, that Gramma's Lye Soap is really just the way to go if you're not into doing the whole oil cleansing method, which is a little more time consuming.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Cool.

LIZ WOLFE: So yeah.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Do you know if they sell that online somewhere? The Gramma's Lye Soap? Do you know?

LIZ WOLFE: I think you can get it through Amazon.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Okay, I'll see if we can find it and pop up a link.

LIZ WOLFE: A lot of hardware stores carry it.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Cool.

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah, we'll try and figure out where that is. I buy mine at the hardware store. So, there you go.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: That's awesome. Beauty products at the hardware store.

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: I love it.

LIZ WOLFE: All right, moving along then to the next one. Are we good to go?

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, I don't really have much to add on that other than I'll be taking some of these tips from you, and working on my stank rank. Okay.

LIZ WOLFE: Stank rank. Yes. Awesome, all right. Question number 2 is from John. “I would like you to maybe explain in a few words for your listeners how Paleo/Primal eating is different from a low-carb eating lifestyle. It looks to me that people always seem to be comparing both styles of quote “dieting”. Thank you both and I look forward to hearing “Thelma and Louise” soon! Aww. Thanks John. All right, Diane, I'll let you tackle this one.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Oh, yeah, and his P.S. is…

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah, “A video recording of a show (when you are both together in person) would be really cool and a lot of fun!” All right, Diane.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: So while we are going to be together, hopefully, this weekend in Philly and you know, I don't know if we can get a video, maybe we'll shoot one that's kind of quick. I don't know that it'll be the entire length of a recording, but we'll say hello if we can. And at the very least, we'll be recording a podcast together, which will be fun. But-so this question-I mean, we've gotten a lot of questions about low carb, we've gotten a lot of questions about ketogenic diets, and you know, I'm trying to sift through and see which ones are kind of best to answer for a broad audience. And I like this question because it was very general, asking us to get into what these things mean. So first and foremost, there's a lot to say between Paleo and low carb, where they differ, where they merge. What both mean, etc. So first off, I just want to clarify and this is something I talk a lot about in my seminar, where the idea of a Paleo diet is really talking about food quality, first and foremost. What kinds of foods are we eating? What kinds of foods are we not eating? And when you talk about low carb, you're really just talking about macronutrients and percentages, or you know, total grams of macronutrients that you're eating. So really, they're not one and the same, but people tend to start lumping them together. Because what happens when you move away from processed, refined foods is that you eat a lower carb diet than the Standard American Diet than even something that most people would think they're eating conventionally quote unquote healthy foods are eating. So it just tends to be lower in carbs right off the bat because you're limiting those refined foods, grains, bean products, etc. So one of the things that's also interesting to know is that we talk about it being food choices in terms of which types of things we're eating. Not all hunter-gatherer or Paleolithic societies were eating low amounts of carbohydrates, so there's a lot of different places you can find research on this. You know, you can look at what the Kitavans eat, and it's a much higher carb diet, for example, than something like the Inuits, who are eating a much lower carb diet. It really varies by climate, it varies by location, and personally I think this is something that every person has to play with at different times in their life to see what works for them. And I think it's an interesting thing to note your ethnic heritage when you're looking at what you maybe want to eat, but for most of us, we're mutts. So, yeah. I don't know very many people who are 100% Sicilian or 100% German. At this point, you know, most of my peers are, if they can even identify via percentage, that's great, and most of the time, it's an I don't know, it's a mix of everything. So that's just a little background there. When it comes to defining things around low carb, you know, I'm going to throw out what I think are some definitions around different ranges. There are a lot of different teachers of Paleo or Primal diets. And this is by no means, definitive, but just to give people a framework of what we are talking about. What do I, Diane, think what we're talking about when we say these different things: low carb, very low carb, etc. So some of the definitions I just worked out. You might see people throw around ZC or Zero Carb. I would consider that to be zero to 5 grabs, or like a trace amount of carbohydrates. There person doesn't eat any significant amount of carbohydrates. They're trying to avoid eating them, eating mostly meat and fat. Potentially broth. That person may consume some carb in the day, but really very close to zero. I would consider personally up to around 50 grams a day to be a very low carb diet, possibly a ketogenic diet or an intermittently ketogenic diet. Sometimes this could be only up to 30 grams per day for more strict or intentional shot at going into ketosis vs. what we might see with somebody who eats a Paleo diet, who from just day to day may eat very low carb one day and slightly higher the next. Or even from meal to meal. You may sort of dip in and out of this state of ketosis, which I'll talk a little bit more about in a bit. But basically, I'm looking at, I think, up to around 20, sorry, up to around 50 grams of carbs a day. I would consider that a very low carb diet. I would consider from 50 to 100 grams of carbs per day to be low carb. So when we say a general low carb, Paleo diet, you're eating Paleo foods, you're getting your carbs from vegetables, starchy vegetables, non-starchy vegetables, some fruit, tubers, that kind of thing, that's my basic. I know Mark Sisson over at Mark's Daily Apple from the Primal Blueprint, he's got his Carbohydrate Curve where he's going to show metabolically what might be happening at different levels. This is not a strict guideline at all. You know, maybe you're eating up to 250 or 200 grams of carbs a day. If you look at a Standard American Diet or the Conventional Wisdom of what we consider or used to consider to be healthy, which included grain products, you might easily be eating 300 grams of carbs a day. And when I give you these gram ranges, I would estimate it to be based around a 2,000 calorie per day diet. So, for example, when we talk about Paleo and whether it's not inherently low carb, a healthy day of Paleo meals could easily include a cup of sweet potato, which is around 58 grams of carbs, and a cup of say, pineapple, which is definitely a higher glycemic fruit, you know it's pretty sweet. And it might have around 21 grams of carbs in a cup of pineapple. And this is by weight, so that's why the pineapple is going to have a little bit less by volume. Those alone-those two things alone-and that's not that much food, would be around 80 grams of carbs. So anyone who thinks that just switching to a Paleo diet puts you into a very low carb state, or even low carb at all, it may not. You know, you may still-I mean, somebody could eat a sweet potato and a couple of servings of fruit in the rest of their day, and they're not eating a low carb diet necessarily. Which is fine, but just so that people kind of get this idea out of their head that one equals the other. It's not necessarily true. So I think if that day, if you were to eat some sweet potato and pineapple, your day could easily go over that 100 gram mark. Again, which is fine, but I wouldn't necessarily call that very low carb, and you know, maybe low carb compared to some, compared to USDA recommendations, and compared to what most people are eating. But simply by removing the refined foods, the grains, sugars, etc., we can take our carb count down from around 300 grams a day to like that 100 to 150 much-very easily. Also, and almost more importantly to know, that unless you're aiming for a ketogenic diet or a very low carb, this is just-low carb just means in relation to other macronutrients. If you've got protein, carbs, and fat, you know, low carb might not necessarily mean any specific gram count. You may eat 100 grams of carbs, but if you eat 5,000 calories for the day, that might be a very low carb percentage for you. That might put you in around 5 or 10%.

LIZ WOLFE: Right.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Right? So, it's all relative. It's absolutely relative to what the person's doing, and people who are trying to get into ketosis as a goal, I think it's really important to actually count what you're doing with the carbs because it's very easy to juts eat more carbs than you think you're eating, even with just non-starchy vegetables and like a bite or two of fruit. So if that's somebody's goal, that's something that you do want to watch. So that's my take on, you know, one is a food quality question, one is a either a proportion or total gram question of a certain macronutrient in the total carbs in your diet. One is not equal to the other. Jimmy Moore's actually-I've talked to him before-he's someone who's a big advocate for a low-carb diet and has not, or had not until recently, really made the switch into doing it as a Paleo approach, which I think he's finding really fun, and he and his wife are doing it, they're posting pictures on Twitter all the time, and I think they just recognize, hey, you know what? You can take this in a different direction by really focusing on Paleo foods and still be living our low carb lifestyle because it just goes so nicely together. It's like, a perfect match because, you know, when we remove refined foods, we just naturally reduce it. Reduce the carb intake, unless we really focus on fruit and starchy foods. So another thing as just an FYI is that if somebody doesn't want to be eating low carb at all, and is really looking for dense sources of Paleo carbs, I have a post on this on my blog; it's just called, “What are Paleo- Dense Sources of Carbs on a Paleo Diet” so you can check that out. And you can actually see too, you know, I tried to list some of the most popular ones. A lot of times people will think certain things are very starchy or high in carbs, like beets or spaghetti squash, for example, not really that high, so it might be good to just check that out. I think that's most of what I wanted to say on that. There's a little bit more we could talk about in terms of like ketosis, but I think I might hold on to that for another podcast when I'm probably going to rant about that in a post that I'm writing in response to a recent Time Magazine article from Dr. Oz about nutrition.

LIZ WOLFE: Ugh.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: I'm really just like- I mean, I read that on an airplane and I was like, I don't why I'm doing this to myself right now, but I started to write this post and it was going on and on, and I had to stop, step back, edit. But he-I mean, I just kind of almost fell off my chair because he actually mistook ketoacidosis for ketosis in the article, and I had to flip back because I thought it was just some shmo nutritionist writing the article.

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Because I couldn't believe that he would mistake a potentially dangerous situation for a very normal metabolic state to be in, so I'll be writing a little bit more on that. But that's the general-do you get this a lot? You know, people who are like, oh, you know, Paleo/low carb-they're confused or is that kind of something that…

LIZ WOLFE: A little bit.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: is more often than not? Yeah.

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah, I also think that-I think that people will-hold on, backing up real quick. Let me do a little-I'm going to call Dr. Oz out right now because I know he listens to this podcast and so does Oprah.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: [laughs]

LIZ WOLFE: And so does, you know, Alec Baldwin, etc., etc. Dr. Oz, get your you-know-what together. Get on the ball, buddy, because you have a lot of influence and a lot of power, and you're not making people healthier. So…

DIANE SANFILIPPO: No.

LIZ WOLFE: There you go. I mean, unless you're…

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Thank you.

LIZ WOLFE: You know, yeah, so, there you go, Dr. Oz.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: He's going to get a nice hunk of my mind. I won't even say a piece.

LIZ WOLFE: [laughs]

DIANE SANFILIPPO: A hunk in this post that I'm writing. But it takes time to write this stuff because unlike even Dr. Oz, my rebuttal and complaints about what he's recommending will have links to studies, and I'm like, hey, this is where we're seeing this, you know. And his article, there's not a single citation. I get it that he's an MD, but what are the standards? I'm sorry, we like ranted off this forever. I mean it could be a whole hate on Dr. Oz podcast.

LIZ WOLFE: He just-yeah.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: I just wish he had better information. Yeah, okay. Maybe we should move on before, okay.

LIZ WOLFE: Well, he's a smart man, he's intelligent. We should probably move on. And you know, he is doing good things for people. I spoke a little sharply there in almost any intervention diet is going to do somebody who's eating high fructose corn syrup and Doritos and juice boxes, it's going to do them a little bit of good.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah. You're right, you're right. Yeah, okay.

LIZ WOLFE: All right. He's not here to defend himself. The one thing I will say like about this whole low carb etc., etc. I think a lot of times, people will want to go super low carb for weight loss. Like whenever you see somebody on Facebook, somebody was dieting for a wedding. They cut out all carbs, and they're all protein, protein, protein. But I think that one of the caveats to going very low carb or zero carb, is you have to-I really think that you have to include some organ meat because you can't just go muscle cuts and I think it creates a healthier circumstance for yourself necessarily. Just because something like folate, which is really rich in beets, is rich in liver. So it's like, you're going to cut out one, you need to think about all that you're getting rid of kind of in that context of ancestral foods and how people stayed healthier when maybe they weren't necessarily eating…

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah.

LIZ WOLFE: really eating a lot of carbs. So that's the only thing that I…

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, that's a really good point. Because I think when we do see those, like the hunter-gatherers who do eat a lower carb diet, they definitely are not throwing away organ meats. They're definitely eating those. And it's actually, I really think that's an interesting point, too, because so often, we think like a vegan or a vegetarian might need to think about what they are missing when they're not eating certain foods, and you know, you just pointed out something that we might be missing if we're not eating organ meats, we're not doing a nose to tail, you know, dining, and we're experiencing, we're eliminating that…

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah, yeah.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: So yeah, that's a really good point. Awesome.

LIZ WOLFE: Thank you. I'm going to give myself a little pat on the back for that one.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Uh-hunh. I'm doing that too virtually.

LIZ WOLFE: [laughs] Thanks. All right.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: All right.

LIZ WOLFE: What's next? Question number 3 is from Susan from Calgary. All right. ”I’ve been “doing Paleo” for about 8 weeks or so. And I have been eating pretty healthy for several years before that (biggest change since going Paleo was kicking the oats and a little bit of dairy), and I’m quite active athletically. But I still get occasional crazy sugar cravings, which I…ahem… occasionally give in to. Like crazy! Do you have any tips for kicking those dang sugar cravings once and for all?! What is happening chemically when one experiences such cravings?” I'm going to throw in my two cents really quick. Like, as far as this goes, I will get some crazy, you know, obsessive cravings when it comes to sugar every now and then. And for me, like outside of the biochemical stuff, my biggest victory has just been consciously making an effort to remove the whole stigma about on-wagon, off-wagon, self-judgment, oh my gosh, sugar, it's not allowed. You know? And just kind of lifting that veil from around it and just seeing it for what it is. It's just a feeling. And you choose how you respond to it, so take that pressure off, you know, that intense…

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah.

LIZ WOLFE: Sugar! You know? Again, so that's been really helpful for me. Anyway, Go for it.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah. And I think if she's been talking-I'm sorry. If she is talking about it occasionally, and when she says she gives into them like crazy, I don't really know what that means. If it means, she sits down with a giant bowl of ice cream, or you know, a couple of chocolate bars…

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah. Or Schweddy Balls.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: [laughs] Schweddy Balls. Exactly. I don't know what that means, and I actually think if you give in to something like that, and it's kind of an instance, and then it's gone, then it is what it is, and what you were saying, it becomes more of an emotional problem than anything else if you let it spiral or snowball and let it continue. And it just spills into the next day and the next day and before you know it, you're gaining weight and you're out of control with sugar. That's one thing, but if you're just getting some cravings and I think we talked about this a little bit with the PMS question before, it was like, eh, if it happens. I kind of want to be like, so what? It's not-I don't think it's the biggest deal, but that being said, we want to talk about reasons why it happens and potentially some ways to kind of avoid it, so I'm going to address a bunch of reasons why people might have sugar cravings and also, in sort of an order that I would address them. Personally, in terms of trying to get rid of them, at least if they're-I don't know what occasionally means, either. Weekly? Monthly? I don't know what that means, but anyway, in terms of…

LIZ WOLFE: There's a note for that.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, there's a note for detail in questions, but it's a good one. But the first thing I would really look at is whether or not you're experiencing low blood sugar as a result of what's known as reactive hypoglycemia. So if you are eating higher carb meals, for example, maybe you do eat some fruit, or some starchy veggies, things that are higher in carbs in one meal, are you experiencing those cravings subsequent to that meal? So this is where food logging can be really interesting, you know, it doesn't have to be weighing and measuring, but it can be like, I had a sweet potato and then like 2 hours later, I was dying for sugar. Well, that could just be your blood sugar taking too hard of a hit for you, and it dropped too low, and now you really want sugar to bring it back up. So that's the very first thing I would look at. It's not always common with people who've already been doing Paleo for awhile, but you've been doing it for 8 weeks. Blood sugar regulation sometimes takes longer than 8 weeks. It usually can be evened out in 2 to 4ish, but it can take longer, depending on where you started. So one thing I do with a lot of people is my 21 Day Sugar Detox program. You can find it on my website under the books, and people who are Paleo, not Paleo both seem to really enjoy that. You know, it's a bit of a challenge, but what it is is just getting rid of those foods that basically might trigger a hypoglycemic response and just keeping your carb intake pretty low so that your body s not constantly looking for sugar. So that's one thing and the very first thing. The second thing and which also sort of might be first or even might precede that hypoglycemic state for a lot of people is how's your sleep? Because if your sleep isn't good, you're setting yourself up to have more sugar cravings. This happens sort of, I guess, as an evolutionary phenomenon of okay, in the past we would have experienced shorter daylight hours in the summer time, and we would be storing up body fat in preparation for famine for the winter. So historically summer would have been more of a time to gain weight as opposed to what we want to do these days in the summer, which is, get slim so we can be in a bathing suit. So if we're not sleeping, what we're telling our body is we've got longer daylight hours, if you know, we're keeping the lights on. We're telling our bodies, yeah, it's summer. So when the daylight comes, eat lots of carbs because we want to store fat for energy for the winter. So as much as it sounds a little bit crazy, I wrote a post about this. It's called, “Turn Down the Lights, Turn Up Your Metabolism”, so if you're not sleeping, check that out. I would definitely make that a priority. Another reason for some sugar cravings could just be a stress response and stress is a big all-encompassing word. Essentially what it means is for some reason, and there's practically a million reasons, you're experiencing an increased cortisol level, which will in turn increase your insulin response, just at a systemic level regardless of your food, which will then turn to drop your blood sugar. So if you experience different causes for an increased cortisol could be something like just eating foods that you're allergic to. So if you're eating foods that you're allergic to, you might not feel it in any way, other than there's a systemic stress response. That stress response pushes your insulin level higher, your insulin level pushes your blood sugar down. So this whole thing-there's a million things to look at, but I don't know, you know, I won't know exactly what's causing it for her. Most people, you know, as I'm going down this list. Most people find what's causing it before you get to this point. It's not typically this issue. It could also be, and again, this is sort of a combination of a stress response and another physiological issue: a candida overgrowth, which we all have candida bacteria. We all have it in our gut, but whether or not it might be overgrown for different reasons: an imbalance of your gut flora, just having a very high sugar or high carb diet at some point in time, or having some kind of increased susceptibility to it, and it will feed on sugar and carbohydrates. As will some other gut pathogens, they want to feed on these sugar and carbs, which you're getting cravings for them. Just something to look at. Again, it doesn't sound like this is what's happening with Susan because it sounds random or occasional, but just something else to look at. If you are getting cravings that are sort of insatiable, it could be that you've got some critters that are asking for the sugar, which sounds a little creepy, like science fiction, but it happens.

LIZ WOLFE: Sure.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, so same thing with the gut dysbiosis, just an imbalance in your gut flora, and I definitely recommend trying some fermented foods, but talking mostly about fermented vegetables because we do want to avoid the sugar, so fermented veggies like raw sauerkraut, or kimchi. If we make it through one podcast without mentioning raw sauerkraut, we might give ourselves a gold star.

LIZ WOLFE: [laughs]

DIANE SANFILIPPO: But I mean, I have seen it time and time again, people who have any type of digestive issues or blood sugar issues, this stuff really helps people out, so give it a try, to make it or find it at a coop, which is usually the best way, but you should look for something raw, it should be cold when you buy it. And kind of a last thing are just other hormonal imbalances, so is this stuff happening around you know, a certain point in your cycle, it could just be some hormonal imbalances, and you know, just being aware of it coming up might be helpful in just preventing with different kinds of foods and just you know, preparing yourself ahead of time, but I really, if it is occasional, you give in, again, I don't know what crazy means, but if it's like a one shot deal, like , you're going to sit down and eat some sweet stuff, and you recover from that okay, I'm definitely like this-I don't know. Pretty much anyone who meets me finds out that I'm way more pro-sugar benders than gluten benders.

LIZ WOLFE: Right.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Like I think your body, if you have some-yeah, if you can get your blood sugar in check, and you eat a bunch of sugar one day, and maybe you're not feeling great for a little bit. I just don't-I don't know. I could be totally wrong, but I just don't think that it has the same systemic effect . You know, it is inflammatory, it's not good to push your blood sugar all over the place, but I feel like if you're generally healthy person, especially if you're active, you can make use of that sugar, you can do something with it. But the gluten, you know, or some gut irritant, I just don't know that that's something you can recover from as quickly. You know, that said, too much sugar can become a gut irritant if you're increasing your cortisol all the time. And it's stressful. Like, none of this stuff is independent. But yeah, those are kind of my list of what I would check out in order to alleviate it and just kind of see if you can get them to go away. Or embrace it. Deal with it. Move on. [laughs] That's what I've got.

LIZ WOLFE: So if I could hone in on your potential thesis here, we're all screwed. That's pretty much the situation.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, I-yeah.

LIZ WOLFE: Do what you will. We're all going to die.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: We're all going to die. I had one of my teachers used to-people, I mean, people in my class , I don't even know what would come up of the subject, and people would just get really worked up over everything. I mean, I'm pretty sure the first time most people in the class heard that gluten was bad, if they even knew what gluten was. I had been studying it for years before I got into the classroom, I mean, I'm not saying I'm the only one, but I just remember like everyone almost like falling off their chairs. Like what? I'm not supposed to eat whole grains?

LIZ WOLFE: Yup, because Dr. Oz said, you should eat whole wheat.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Whole grains! Whole wheat! Well, I mean, one of my teachers, I thought she was like the most hysterical, dry-humor, deadpan. Her name's Lauren Knoff. She actually has a book-it's on Irritable Bowel Syndrome, but I'll link to it in the notes-but she's just always had this attitude, like, look, we're all going to die, so first of all, just calm down. Like listen, we're just trying to give you some tools here. You know? And at the end of the day, enjoy your life, do what feels good, and like, let's move on. Everybody, just calm down. Anyway, I could go on. But yeah, that's kinda what I'm thinking about the sugar.

LIZ WOLFE: All right.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: All right.

LIZ WOLFE: Coolness.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Who's up next?

LIZ WOLFE: Okay. This next one is from Lindy. All right. “Hi! Thanks for starting a podcast” You're welcome, Lindy. “I am currently on an autoimmune Paleo diet for”-I'm going to say this wrong-” ankylosing spondylitis (spinal rheumatoid arthritis).

DIANE SANFILIPPO: I think that's right. Yup.

LIZ WOLFE: Awesome. “By ditching egg whites, nuts, nightshades, starch, dairy, and fruit, I have stopped using the heavy meds like stuff that I can't pronounce.”

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Humira.

LIZ WOLFE: “Humira, NSAIDs” – I can pronounce that – “and high doses of Prednisone. The only thing I’m currently taking is Low Dose Naltrexone (LDN).” And I do think-Diane, correct me if I'm wrong, that's one that even Chris Kresser has spoken in favor of.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Mm-hmm.

LIZ WOLFE: Favorably about Low Dose Naltrexone. Okay.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, I'm definitely not an expert on that. Yeah, go ahead.

LIZ WOLFE: “Despite this success for 2 months, I’m not even able to add winter/summer squash or sweet potatoes back into my diet. I’m losing so much weight that my coworkers are disturbed. I’m eating TONS of meat, avocado, coconut milk, olive oil, and as many non-starchy veggies as I can. What can I do to increase my weight on this diet, and from your experience, will I ever be able to add things back into my diet?” Go for it, Diane.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: So, yeah, this is definitely not something that I'm an expert on. I wanted to tackle it, just to kind of give a few notes and some things to try for her, but I don't have specific experience with this in my practice personally, and I might even say, you know, this is something good to throw over to Chris Kresser and maybe we can save some of these questions, because I know he's agreed to come on and talk to us on the podcast, so maybe we can ask him more about this. If he's seen it in his practice, and what he's seen, but just when I did get through this question, and kind of my-just because we're talking about this again about diet and expectations, and I talked about this in response to the celiac question, in a previous podcast, where my bottom line advice for this person, like Lindy, is to really work on healing her gut as the primary focus because when people are experiencing issues with like high levels of multiple food sensitivities, figuring out why you are having a more intense leaky gut situation is really the first line of attack. I don't know what triggers this condition, if there is an underlying root trigger, I don't know specifically. But it might be something else to look into if there's anything around, like fungal infections, heavy metals, or gut pathogens. So really getting more to the root cause of it. Something that Dr. Datis Kharrazian who wrote like basically the Bible of Hashimoto's called Why Do I Still Have Thyroid Symptoms When My Lab Tests are Normal? He's really, really experienced with the whole leaky gut scenario, and his stance on it, is like, show me someone with an autoimmune condition, and I'll show you someone with a leaky gut.

LIZ WOLFE: Mm-hmm.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Where, if you've got an autoimmune condition, you'll always have a leaky gut to some extent. You will never heal it completely; I mean, this is his take. I don't know if that's true. I don't know if autoimmunity just means, look, you've got this predisposition to not fully properly digest things, and they could be potentially always irritating your system. So that's why I just say, you know what? If having an autoimmune condition is something that puts your system in a situation of okay, I will always have issues with gut integrity, that's what I would focus on primarily. So that might mean, as I mentioned, you could listen back to the one on celiac, which we time-stamped with, so you can tune in right to it. But the info I put in on that which talks about glutamine, which a lot of people think is pretty helpful for healing the gut lining, so you might want to try some of that. Also getting your vitamin D status checked is also really important when it comes to autoimmunity. It's just a blood spot test. You can order that. I might even think about getting your omega-3/omega-6 ratios, again in just terms of systemic inflammation. If it's something that you've been working on, if you are eating tons of avocados, or olive oil, I mean, I don't know if your ratios are going to be totally off, but you could be pushing that omega-6 balance kind of high, to the inflammatory side, so you might want to look at where those levels are, and looking at maybe some omega-3 supplementation or just eating some more fatty fish. I mean, I like what you're eating now, so I don't know. Because what you're eating now looks good, but maybe it's more like why aren't you absorbing more of it? So that's why I'm talking about this whole leaky gut thing more.

LIZ WOLFE: Mm-hmm.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: And in terms of like adding foods back, people are all going to have unique experiences with this. It seems like the starches and the fruit will be more likely to come back at all, if ever, than the things like eggs and nightshades, which are more, which are known more to be more irritating to an autoimmune condition, especially one like yours, where it's got arthritic tendencies, so I don't know about the eggs and nightshades ever coming back. The starches and the fruits seem like things that could come back when your system calms down. You're not telling me what you feel when you try the squash, so I guess it's just a flare up of your symptoms further. You didn't mention if you've tried fruit again recently, but I would definitely see what happens when you try fruit. I would try it. I would try one type of fruit at a time, just to see what reaction you get from that, and you can really test it cleanly, you know. Just try blueberries maybe or something like that, and see what happens. Because having that additional carb intake might help with your weight gain, just for having a little more insulin response to your meals. So that's kind of what I'm thinking. Again, it's really mostly around, if you're eating tons of food, why aren't you possibly absorbing all of it, coming back to getting the gut fixed, and figuring out what kind of imbalance there. We also have some notes on increasing weight in another-in our previous podcast, so you know, you can listen, as I said back to the notes on celiac, notes on increasing weight and kind of mesh that with what you need to know to be able to work for you and kind of try and come up with a plan. But yeah, that's kind of what I have on that.

LIZ WOLFE: Awesome, yeah. I mean, it sounds to me, I mean, I think what I'm taking from this question is that she's been doing this for two months, and it sounds like she's made-A. that's she's made extraordinary progress being able to ditch those medications and everything this way, which is awesome.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Mm-hmm.

LIZ WOLFE: But, you know, obviously the concern is despite that success, she's losing so much weight, so there's an awesome summed up scenario here, but there's also that concern that she's doing so well, yet she's not keeping weight on, so I'm a little curious about what maybe she was eating before that maybe would have maintained her weight at a higher level. Was she just kind of eating more Neolithic foods and being more heavily medicated, or what? You know what I'm saying?

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah.

LIZ WOLFE: What was in there before that was maintaining her weight? And was she suffering more and having to take more medication as a result of that?

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, and we don't know. We also don't know like what she weighs, how tall she is, and if it's just, you know, I don't know. I honestly don't-like I have clients who tell me one thing about their weight, and how they look, and then I see a picture, and again, it's that whole perception of they think that they're huge or they think that they're skinny…

LIZ WOLFE: Mm-hmm.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Like what I see is totally different from what they see. You know, maybe your coworkers are saying one thing, and you know, who knows? I don't know what the deal is there, but if she wants to comment back on the post, with just a little more detail or more info, that'd be cool. You know, whatever we can do to help, but I'm definitely not an expert on that specific condition, so that's really what I can say about this type of condition, and just the idea of not being able to keep weight on. But it is pretty new. you know, two months is, like maybe your gut still is figuring itself out, but I think that there is more stuff that you can kind of look into and work on, so, yeah.

LIZ WOLFE: Definitely.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: We got you there.

LIZ WOLFE: Do you want to get into this last one, or do you think we should wrap it up and punt this last question until the next one?

DIANE SANFILIPPO: I think we could just do this one more, and that'll be it for today. It's kind of a different shift in gears, so yeah, I think we can do this.

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah, I like that.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Cool.

LIZ WOLFE: All right, here we go. This is from Ian: ”Hello Ladies, and congrats on the new podcast! Question: What suggestions could you make for someone wanting to get into Paleo/Primal/Weston A. Price nutrition as a career? What path education-wise would you suggest? Nutrition Therapy Association? RD? I’d like 2 answers if you can, one from the perspective of starting off from scratch, and one from the perspective of already being a health professional. In my case, I’m an RN working on my NP. However, I would really like to incorporate Paleo in to my care, and ultimately open up a private practice specializing in “Diabesity”. Thanks, Ian aka “The Japsican” Which whatever that means, I think it must be awesome.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Maybe half Japanese, half Mexican? I don't know.

LIZ WOLFE: I'm going to assume. Sounds fun.

DIANE SANFILIPPO:Awesome.

LIZ WOLFE: All right, okay. We'll I'll throw in my two cents here real quick. My intention is to one day go back to school when money and time allows and get a four year Biology whatever, But a year or so ago, when I really wanted to start helping people right away, I needed to find something that I could complete a little bit more quickly without sacrificing the kind of integrity of the education, you know? I didn't want to just go show up somewhere for a weekend, and then pay $1000 and get certified.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah.

LIZ WOLFE: Wink, wink. But I am-the Nutritional Therapy Association is really, really wonderful. They've got all different kinds of protocols in place for distance learning, for on-site learning, but the bottom line is, with a lot of these things, I think you can make of it. What you can get out of it is what you put into it. You know? I know when I was in college the first time back in the day, I definitely would skate when I could, and I could have honestly, I could have-sorry, Mom and Dad-but I could have gotten a lot more out of from my college education. And it's the same with any of these other paths, you know. You have to read everything. Read the footnotes. Read the suggested reading. Ask a million questions, you know. Take advantage of everything that, in my case, the Nutritional Therapy Association makes available to you. And if you do that, you will come out incredibly capable and ready to go. So that's my two cents on that. I think the NTA is really phenomenal, and I've had some great instructors. But, as I said, it is what you make it. So there you go.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Any take on RD vs. not? Is that something that you considered at some point, or…?

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah, for me personally, like I was looking at the program at Rutgers, RD track vs. like a clinical nutrition track. For me personally, it's probably going to come down to whether or not I can pass Calc 2, which I can't remember which track I'm going to have to which or which I didn't have to. But with an RD, and I think Amy Kubal would be a good person maybe to have on at some point, maybe to discuss this type of stuff, but I know she's an RD, and I think it does pose unique challenges, but as an RD, you can do all kinds of meal planning for people, things that kind of come down to technicalities, I think, in a lot of more holistic certifications. You know, obviously, I think the whole holistic route is the way to go, just because it's so well rounded. But legally, it can pose some challenges. You really do have to know the laws in your state, whether you're allowed to practice independently, or whether you have to practice under someone that's a licensed practitioner, whether that be a chiropractor or a registered dietitian. You've just got to be really up and up on that stuff.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, I kind of-well, I'll take all of it from my side as well because I definitely have two cents on that as well. I wrote a post about this. I called it “My Advice on Turning Nutrition Education Into a Career,” because I get this question all the time. But I think the gist of it is, like first and foremost, look at the curriculum for me, for each of these programs. The NTA, look at the curriculum for Bauman College, and you know, obviously, you don't know everything from that. But I would see, what are you going to learn? Is that what you want to learn? Because you have to be in that program for however long, learning what they are asking you to learn, and at some point, somehow, regurgitating it in some way.

LIZ WOLFE: Mm-hmm.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: So for me, that was through some quick quizzes, but mostly written homework. And a lot of meal plan homework. My program was pretty intensive with regards to, at least, the second half more so, specific conditions and therapeutic meal plans for specific conditions, and they weren't, you know, super oriented toward exact macronutrient content, but very detailed meal plans. And so, if that's something that you're interested in, in really learning about a lot of these conditions, then cool, go for that. If you want to learn some of the biochemistry of how different conditions arise, and what's happening when things go wrong in the system, that's things that I learned about at Bauman, for sure. So, education-wise, I think, considering the curriculum is one. I think considering the certification you'll end up with is definitely another, but really the RD vs., pretty much anything else is what you're looking at because nothing else is licensed as an RD, and I think Liz's point is important. Like, depending on your state, depending on what you can do, with or without an RD, you know, that's kind of, if you want to work in a hospital, or if you want to work with doctors, you may need to go that route.

LIZ WOLFE: Mm-hmm.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: If you are more self-made, like I'm definitely someone who will make my own job, like, I mean. I've done this for myself, and interestingly enough, like I'll be featured in the Bauman College, the next catalogue that they have on classes as their featured graduate, and I think…

LIZ WOLFE: Nice.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: a good example of what's possible. Like, oh, yeah, very cool. Do they know I don't fully agree with everything they …? But you know, their model is actually very good for what they promote-it doesn't actually have any grains in there at all, so, but I think..you know, so I'm not always a perfect example of like what every person who comes out of my program does. I think I just have this way of taking things and running with them pretty quickly, but it just depends on your background. And you know, it looks like if you're a RN, working on an NP, well, you may have a lot more experience than other people in any of these programs in working with patients, so, you know, really, what do you want to learn? And then, if you already are an RN, I don't know if an RD is really critical for you. You know? You may just…

LIZ WOLFE: I agree.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: be an RN or be an NP, right? So if you're already, like that's probably licensed, so if you're already licensed that way, I don't know that the rest of that stuff is really critical. And if you want to look at the RD curriculum and if that looks interesting to you, God love you, do it, but I was like, I don't think this is what I want to learn. I think -you know, there's probably more biochemistry with more good science in there, but I think you'll be answering questions on a test that you kind of know are wrong, in terms of like what's healthy for people , and I just can't personally do that, so stuff, anything that's insincere to what I know to be true, I just can't regurgitate.

LIZ WOLFE: Right.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: And that was also the experience that I had at Bauman. You know, all of my meal plans were Paleo meal plans. I don't care that the school says that quinoa is okay. That's not what I believe. It won't be in my meal plan. And I had no problem with that at all. So that kind of worked just fine for me. In terms of starting from scratch vs. already being a professional, like you're already way ahead of the game already being a health professional. I would just look at how you want to work with people and kind of go from there, but it's really those two different perspectives, and what I thought I wanted to do, how I thought I wanted to work with people when I started at Bauman vs. how I ended up working with people now, and even doing this podcast, is like night and day. So…

LIZ WOLFE: Mm-hmm.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: I really think the first part is more important than the second, you know, learning what you want to learn in order to somehow help people is more important than knowing what you'll do with it, because I think you-I personally do think you'll figure out what you'll do with it because people and you know, situations present themselves as you kind of move through doing what feels right for you. So yeah, that's kind of my take.

LIZ WOLFE: I think that's a really, really good point.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: I know..yeah. There's something else, too, like kind of my last note on it is that I actually do nutrition career consulting with people . I have had tons of people just sign up for an hour of coaching on this stuff. You know, we go over all of your questions and you know, what's on your mind, what are you stressed about, and sort of -I just give you some advice on how to direct that because sometimes somebody just wants to hear it from someone else.

LIZ WOLFE: Mm-hmm.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: You know, and what do I think might be helpful from someone who knows what it's like in how hard it is? Because it's not easy. But that is something that I've helped a lot of people with, just to get their bearings and focus, because it's really an important part of it is just kind of focus yourself from what it is you believe in and how you want to help people.

LIZ WOLFE: Totally.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Thanks.

LIZ WOLFE: I like your point about what do you want to learn. Part of the reason that I loved the NTA so much and why it's like, okay, I can spend my money on this is because they do really lean heavily on the research of Loren Cordain and Weston A. Price and so I wasn't going to have to, like you said, learn stuff that I do not believe may be true, so I definitely appreciate that about the program.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Mm-hmm. Yeah, and I think that in my post about Bauman or about turning this stuff into a career, I definitely had a different experience than some people might in the classroom vs. distance learning because I feel like our teachers really brought a lot to the table with their own experience and their own points of view.

LIZ WOLFE: Mm-hmm.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Both of the teachers that I had-well, I had a handful-but the two primary teachers were both very Weston A. Price-oriented, I talked about this before with Paleo, so they were like, no, you're not crazy, and you know, so…

DIANE SANFILIPPO: This is all good. I think that can really make a difference too in finding a mentor, that kind of works for you., but yeah, let us know what you end up doing.

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah, definitely.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: And listen on that. Awesome. All right, so we're up there. We went 65 minutes.

LIZ WOLFE: Wow. Really?

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Mm-hmm. We can certainly yap. Yeah, I think so.

LIZ WOLFE: [laughs] We can yap, that's for sure.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah.

LIZ WOLFE: All right, well, anything to wrap it up, Diane?

DIANE SANFILIPPO: That's really it. I mean, we've got lots of questions still lined up for future podcasts, but if you've got something burning, feel free to submit it, and yeah, that's it, so look for us every Wednesday. We'll be live on BlogTalk Radio and on iTunes, and we're going to try and get out into Stitcher and any of these feed readers people are looking for, but that's kind of it.

LIZ WOLFE: Awesome.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: And I'm going to go work out.

LIZ WOLFE: I'm going to go watch-you're going to go work out, I'm going to watch The Real Housewives of New Jersey from last night, so…

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Awesome. Awesome. [laughs]

LIZ WOLFE: Just kidding. All right, talk to you later then.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Talk to you later. Bye.

LIZ WOLFE: Bye.