Diane Sanfilippo & Liz Wolfe | Balanced Bites Podcast | Homestead Life vs. Urban Life, and How You Can Build Your Village in Both

Podcast Episode #312: Homestead Life vs. Urban Life, and How You Can Build Your Village in Both

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Diane Sanfilippo & Liz Wolfe | Balanced Bites Podcast | Homestead Life vs. Urban Life, and How You Can Build Your Village in BothTopics

  1. News and updates from Diane & Liz [1:51]
  2. Groundhog Day [3:28]
  3. Listener comment: Community in the country [8:38]
  4. Diane's takeaway [16:45]
  5. Diane and Liz's friendship [25:10]
  6. Kitchen tips [36:58]
  7. Closing thoughts [40:43]


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 Brene Brown – The Anatomy of Trust

Diane Sanfilippo & Liz Wolfe | Balanced Bites Podcast | Homestead Life vs. Urban Life, and How You Can Build Your Village in Both Diane Sanfilippo & Liz Wolfe | Balanced Bites Podcast | Homestead Life vs. Urban Life, and How You Can Build Your Village in Both Diane Sanfilippo & Liz Wolfe | Balanced Bites Podcast | Homestead Life vs. Urban Life, and How You Can Build Your Village in Both

You’re listening to the Balanced Bites podcast episode 312.

Diane Sanfilippo: Welcome to the Balanced Bites podcast. I’m Diane; a certified nutrition consultant, and the New York Times bestselling author of Practical Paleo and The 21-Day Sugar Detox. I live in San Francisco with my husband and fur kids.

Liz Wolfe: I’m Liz; a nutritional therapy practitioner, and author of the Wall Street Journal best-seller Eat the Yolks; The Purely Primal Skincare Guide; and the online program Baby Making and Beyond. I live on a farm in the mystical land of the Midwest, outside of Kansas City.

We’re the co-creators of the Balanced Bites Master Class, and we’ve been bringing you this award-winning podcast for nearly 6 years. We’re here to share our take on modern paleo living, answer your questions, and chat with leading health and wellness experts. Enjoy this week’s episode, and submit your questions at http://blog.balancedbites.com or watch the Balanced Bites podcast Instagram account for our weekly calls for questions. You can ask us anything in the comments.

Remember our disclaimer: The materials and content within this podcast are intended as general information only, and are not to be considered a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Before we get started, let’s hear from one of our sponsors.

Liz Wolfe: The Balanced Bites podcast is sponsored in part by the Nutritional Therapy Association. The NTA trains and certifies nutritional therapy practitioners and consultants (including me; I’m an NTP), emphasizing bio-individuality and the range of dietary strategies that support wellness. The NTA emphasizes local, whole, properly prepared nutrient dense foods as the key to restoring balance and enhancing the body’s ability to heal. Nutritional therapy practitioners and consultants learn a wide range of tools and techniques to assess and correct nutritional imbalances. To learn lots more about the nutritional therapy program, go to http://www.NutritionalTherapy.com. There are workshop venues in the US, Canada, and Australia, so chances are you’ll be able to find a venue that works for you.

1. News and updates from Diane & Liz [1:51]

Liz Wolfe: Alright, Diane, my dear. What’s up with you this week?

Diane Sanfilippo: This is as if there should be something new up with me. {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: Ugh.

Diane Sanfilippo: Just more. Just more of the same. So not too much that’s new. I don’t know exactly what date this episode will be airing. But looking forward to getting in a visit with our friend Michelle from Nom Nom Paleo. I know she’s on her book tour. And she’s got a bunch of stuff around northern California coming up. So I’m excited about that. And what else? I don’t know.

Just more house stuff. Just kind of getting settled in. And feeling really good about being in our own little house. It’s been kind of a journey with all of that. You know, when Scott and I first met, I had literally just put in an offer on a condo in New Jersey that he and I eventually did both live in. But I don’t know. We ended up moving out of that condo so much faster than we thought we would; basically because the winter of 2014 into 2015 was so bad that I was like, we have to get out of here. So this is our first house together. We rented before. And this was the first place that we both saw, we both loved. And just kind of went for. So we’re just making it our own. Fully, fully nesting. And that’s kind of what we’ve been up to. So yeah, I don’t know. What’s going on with you?

Liz Wolfe: I feel like we’re going to find out a lot of what’s going on with me during the course of this episode.

Diane Sanfilippo: OK. That’s fair.

Liz Wolfe: Maybe I just say, wait for it. {Laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: Wait for it! {laughs} That’s fair. Totally fair.

Liz Wolfe: Ok. Good.

2. Groundhog Day [3:28]

Diane Sanfilippo: Alright. So we are trying out a new segment called Groundhog Day. And credit to Niki, who is behind the scenes pulling all these documents together for us. Because I did not know about this segment.

Liz Wolfe: {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: But I like it. {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: I like it too. This is good.

Diane Sanfilippo: So it’s something that we’re both doing on repeat. And we might get bored with ourselves. But I have to say, whenever there’s something I do on repeat and I post about it a lot on Instagram, for example. That’s when I think people really pick up on it more. And then they’re like, “Oh yeah. I saw she did that last week too. Maybe it’s good.” You know?

So one thing I’ve been doing on repeat. Which if you follow me on Instagram, you're like, “Yes. We know Diane. You and the stupid bowl of broccoli with your meat sauce.” You talk about doing a spaghetti squash with, you know, jarred tomato sauce and ground meat often. I’ve been doing something really similar. Whether it’s over zoodles; which I only do that if I happen to have bought zucchini that week. Because even making zoodles is effort. {laughs} Just putting them through and doing that work.

I like to roast broccoli, and then while the broccoli is in the oven, I’m cooking up basically a super quick meat sauce. The only effort is I cut up onions and garlic first. Then cook the meat with it. Dump in a really clean, organic, yummy tomato sauce. And that’s kind of it. If I have pesto in the fridge, I top it with pesto and it seems super fancy. If I have some pecorino romano, which is a sheep milk cheese. If I have that, I put that on top too. But over broccoli, for some reason. I mean, first of all, it just makes broccoli better. We all know broccoli can use some help. {laughs}

But I don’t know. It’s just different from zucchini noodles. I know folks a lot of times feel like zucchini noodles get kind of watery. And eating it over roasted broccoli, you just kind of kill two birds with one stone. The broccoli is cooking, and you do this other thing, and then it all comes together. I’ve been eating that on repeat. So it doesn’t have to be something that you're eating on repeat. But something you're doing on repeat.

Liz Wolfe: I feel like my whole life is kind of Groundhog Day at this point. Little things and big things. I’m not showering on repeat. I’m not getting things done on repeat. I’m doing bed time and nap time on repeat. So I’ll have to think about this one. Is that good enough for now?

Diane Sanfilippo: I feel like I’ve seen tiny frogs on your Instagram stories on repeat.

Liz Wolfe: {laughing} That’s good. Yeah, I’m seeing a lot of tiny frogs right now.

Diane Sanfilippo: It seems very nature-y of you.

Liz Wolfe: Doesn’t it?

Diane Sanfilippo: Very outdoorsy, as opposed to me.

Liz Wolfe: I know.

Diane Sanfilippo: Very indoorsy.

Liz Wolfe: Well, what’s funny about a lot of these little hikes that we’ve been going on. It’s so crazy; and we’re going to talk about this. I’m sure we’ll get to it in this episode. Because this is kind of one of those more personal episodes. But I share a lot of pictures. I’m pretty active on Instagram; I’m not active on Instagram stories right now, but I’m definitely doing Instagram stories at a level that I never envisioned myself doing so please check out my stories and give me some positive reinforcement there.

But we do a lot of hikes. And what’s funny is I’m sure people think we’re doing this out on our property. But these hikes are actually happening where my parents live, which is a tree city. It’s a gated community, but it’s got a ton of trails. Like little hiking trails on it, and horse trails, and things like that. So I’m actually going into the city and going on nature walks. And I’ve found that out here on the farm, it’s actually a little harder to do stuff like that. Which is very, very opposite of what you would think. That I actually get more nature when I go into the city than I do out here on our property. But that’s kind of been the paradox that’s been buggering me for a really long time. Which I’m sure we’ll talk about today.

Diane Sanfilippo: Very interesting.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah. So the nature is not always actually happening out here in nature, as people might thing.

Liz Wolfe: This episode of the Balanced Bites podcast is sponsored by our friends at Primally Pure Skincare. Primally Pure makes 100% natural and nontoxic skincare products that support radiant skin, a healthy body, and a happy self. They use ingredients like tallow from grass-fed cows; organic and fair trade coconut oil, and organic oils, herbs, and extracts to formulate effective products that also smell amazing and look beautiful sitting on your bathroom counter.

At www.primallypure.com, you’ll find their bestselling natural deodorant that actually works; face mists made from locally sourced and organic rose and orange blossom hydrosols, and their brand new baby line. You’ll also find Diane’s favorite Primally Pure product, dry shampoo, and Liz’s favorite, that’s me, the Everything Spray with magnesium.

As a special bonus for you, Primally Pure is offering a free lip balm with your first purchase of one item or more. Simply add a lip balm to your cart along with any one item, and use the code “balancedbites”, one word no caps, during checkout to receive one of their lip balms for free with your order. Head to www.primallypure.com and check out their range of safe and effective all natural skincare products.

3. Listener comment: Community in the country [8:38]

Liz Wolfe: Ok. So today we’re talking about a comment from one of our listeners. I’m going to butcher this; anasuyabasil. I don’t know. On episode 304 with Dr. Boham that we both found really interesting; me in particular. And also Diane because she’s kind of like my distance therapist. Here’s the comment.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: I know. “Thank you for the interview with Dr. Boham. So many wonderful things were discussed. I can relate to your question about weighing the benefits of a cleaner, but more isolated homestead life against an urban life with greater exposure to pollution, and a better access to a social life. I live in a rural area after living in the big city too, so I’ve been thinking about your question. I’ve certainly grappled with feeling isolated while loving the natural beauty and fresh air all around me. When I first moved here, I wanted to understand the native flora and fauna. To be more at home in this place, and not be an urban transplant. I studied nature connection practices like wildfire…” {laughs} Wildfire. I’ve been watching Game of Thrones.

“Wildlife tracking and bird language, which were incredibly nourishing and brought me a greater sense of belonging, so that I didn’t feel so isolated. In the process of diving deeply into nature connection, I began to feel in my bones that people are nature too, and that we have an innate need to be part of a tribe or village the way our ancestors experienced it. I also saw how modern life, besides serving up artificial food and harming the environment in the process, often made it difficult to have this village experience. Like most modern people, I’m super busy and I don’t have a lot of time for community building. At the same time, I realize the value of human connection in a way I never did before. I know that a supportive village experience is as important to my health as sourcing organic food, practicing yoga, and sleeping 7-plus hours a night.

Often this village is not obvious, so I choose to see each conversation with a neighbor, each potluck and shared walk as building a line of connection that weaves together my village. My affirmation about this is, ‘I see evidence of the village all around me.’ No doubt building one’s own village from the disconnective patterns of modern life as a slow, long-term project. All the same, after a few years of increased village awareness, I have fewer experiences of feeling isolated. I live alone on a 5-acre ridge-top property, but I can walk to five neighbor’s homes and have a conversation, borrow a tool, or share a meal. I can drive 40 minutes to the mid-sized town and meet with a number of people to discuss shared interests.

The doctor’s answer was a good one. She essentially said that you can live in the city and be healthy, because your biology is amazingly strong. I want to add that you can also live in the country, and feel nestled into an active network of community connections because within your ancestral DNA is a powerful drive to do so. And the country people have that in their DNA, too.”

So I really like this.

Diane Sanfilippo: So good!

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: So good.

Liz Wolfe: This really; and I know we have some topics to talk about. But this really made me think. Because she’s right. She’s so right. And it was stated so eloquently. And what it really made me do was look at; “Ok, Liz. What are your feelings really about?” Because as I was reading this, when you sent this to me initially, I was like, “I have a village.” I actually do have a really amazing village. And they’re 15 minutes away. I have a close group of girlfriends out here that are amazing. They would do anything for me, and I would do anything for them. So I’m not lacking for connection.

What my question to myself became was, are you looking for what you would consider a more legitimate argument for just realizing that this isn’t for you? Maybe I’m looking to blame the fact that this homestead life is hard and isolating. Not because I don’t have a village, because I do. But because maybe I just don’t want to do it right now. The kid is difficult. I mean, she’s not difficult, she’s wonderful. But my focus is parenting. My focus is not farming. And I never had any concept of how much things change after you have a kid. And in ways you wouldn’t think they would change.

And I still struggle with the fact that I want her to grow up out here. But I don’t always want to be raising her out here. And I don’t want to make a rash decision about moving, or about shutting down the farm and getting rid of this homestead, and then two years from now say, “Man, I really wish we stayed there.” Because I really wish that we had a bigger back yard. Or that we had the opportunity to have cows or goats again. That type of thing.

And then I started thinking more deeply about it, and I was like, “Wow. Am I just getting antsy to make a change so that I don’t have to pursue deeper relationships with people?” And that’s kind of where I’m at now. And it’s probably the fact that I’ve been going to therapy for other things that have gotten me kind of parsing things apart this way.

But I think some of the things that I’ve been working on in therapy about relationships and things like that have shown me that perhaps just a long history of maybe choosing the wrong relationships, and feeling compelled to close doors and start fresh. I have that history. And then for that reason maybe it really suited me to marry into the military, because we would have to move here and there. And I would feel justified in not really cultivating strong relationships. Or not being vulnerable, to bring in Brene Brown concepts. Not being vulnerable with people. I had that excuse of, “Well we’re just going to move in a few years. So I’ll see them if I see them. If I don’t, I don’t.” It is what it is, and I’ll just work on my own stuff and not seek that village, and not make myself vulnerable to that part of life.

So now I’m sitting here thinking, I don’t want to leave my friends. I love these girls. Why would I want to move far away to start over? Why am I having that itch? Is it because they’ve literally taken me under their wings and been like, “You're going to be our friend. Good luck not being our friend, because we love you and we care about you. You're in our friend group.” If they hadn’t done that, I would probably be just out here doing my own thing.

But I have that drive to move onto the next thing maybe because I’m feeling that tension of these relationships are really getting deeper. And that makes me feel really vulnerable. It makes me feel really scared, because I feel like I’ve been in situations where I’ve been burned by friends and by boyfriends, friends, what have you. And of course, I’ve had responsibility in those situations as well. I’ve made decisions that have hurt people, and led those people to not want to continue a friendship with me. And maybe hurt me back. I know I’m being vague, but the particulars aren’t even that important, I don’t think, at this point.

But the resonance. It stays with you over time, and the details become less important of what happened in 5th grade, or what happened in college with somebody. And it just becomes, “Relationships are hard. And being vulnerable is really, really scary. And I feel more comfortable if that responsibility. That part of life. That thing that is in our DNA; the responsibility for that is taken out of my hands.”

So I don’t know. I’m trying to figure out where these thoughts are coming from. And I probably should have prefaced this entire spiel by first saying, if you haven’t listened to the podcast with Dr. Elizabeth Boham, you should. Because I ask her the question, whether one can be healthy if they move to the city and are exposed to more toxins versus being at a homestead that’s kind of isolated but cleaner. A cleaner lifestyle. And it all stems from the fact that I have kind of felt this feeling lately that I want to move back to the city. That I want to move closer to my mom. That I want to not have this responsibility of this farm anymore. Etc., etc.

So, that’s what I’m grappling with right now, to give an abundance of context. And now I’m done rambling. So Diane, I’m sure you have thoughts.

4. Diane’s takeaway [16:45]

Diane Sanfilippo: Well I think, to be fair also something you and I have talked about in that whole debate is the idea of how easy or difficult is everyday life as a result. Like what you were talking about with parenting having a bigger impact on certain things than you had ever anticipated. And I think there’s also an amount of; I don’t know. It’s fair to say, ok, it’s more difficult to live where you have more household and farm responsibilities that then, I don’t know about get in the way, but keep you from doing things that you really do want to do but simply don’t have the time to do.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: Because living things depending on you will always take precedence to work. So, whether that’s a child or the farm or land or what have you; that’s always going to be first. Because, {laughs} living things will always be first. So I think all that’s totally fair.

The flip side of living in a city; what’s interesting is, I’ll tell you. I don’t think living somewhere more rural. But I can’t help, but when I hear the word rural, I just think of the rural juror.

Liz Wolfe: The rural juror, yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: From 30 Rock. {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: Like, I just can’t not think of that. But anywho. I actually think that living in a city, at least one like San Francisco. Or any other bigger city. I mean, Kansas City is a big city, but maybe it’s kind of a mid-range size of city. It’s actually very easy to isolate yourself in a city. Because that connection that you have, let’s say with that group of girlfriends. I can so easily just assume that all of the friends that I have have other things going on on any given weekend, for example. Because people have different groups of friends.

So contrast that with my high school and college years, where I kind of had one friend group and everyone was friends with each other for the most part. There weren’t different groups, and it’s kind of like you checked in on each other to see that everyone had something to do that weekend, for example. And I know this is different because we don’t have kids. So when we socialize, it is a little bit of a different. I know it’s a different type of thing, and most of our friends are pretty young at this point. {laughs} They just keep getting younger as we get older.

But I have said many times on this podcast and just in real life that I don’t like making new friends, and the reality is that I don’t like acquaintances. I like really good friends. People I can be totally honest and open and vulnerable with and I can trust. We all like that, right? Nobody wants people in their lives that they can’t trust.

Liz Wolfe: But some people want a lot of kind of friends, and not one or two really, really close ones.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. Some people like to do things.

Liz Wolfe: Yes.

Diane Sanfilippo: And just be out and socialize with people and go with people. I don’t really care about that, because I don’t want to just have small talk and talk about the weather. I’m not; I would rather be alone. So I like having friends who I can talk about things with, who I don’t have to pull things out of and ask a million questions. They’re just going to kind of sit down and start dumping out whatever it is {laughs} and we can talk about what we’re eating and we can also talk about our thoughts about certain important topics. And I really value that. So part of that could be, we just learn the types of friends that we like.

But anyway. I think you and I have probably both done some of the pushing away or pushing ourselves away or withdrawing from making friends. And I don’t think that’s all a product of living where you live, or living where I live. I think some of it may also just be, as we get older, we do protect ourselves perhaps from relationships that we either aren’t sure we want to form or who knows the reasons for all of that. But I don’t think the city or the country or farm life; it seems easier in the city, but I think people can say that when they’re not necessarily living in the city. I actually think it could be really hard to make good connections where there are more people, just because it’s a diffusion of responsibility of socializing. Does that make sense?

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: You know, when there’s an emergency on the sidewalk and there’s tons of people around. No one person feels that responsible to help. Whereas if it was just you {laughs}. And I think that happens with socializing as well. I don’t know. I don’t know what the answer is. But I chose to come here, because I really enjoy the weather and I enjoy the lifestyle. And I do enjoy the friends we have here who have a lot of common interests because they choose this place to live, as well. You don’t live in San Francisco by accident. It’s not cheap. And we really have to make a conscious decision to say, “I am going to live here, and here’s what I’m going to do in order to make that happen.” And I don’t say that in way other than, people are not here by default, at this point. We really have to choose it.

That being said, the people I am friends with here really appreciate living here. Really love it here. Make that conscious decision and love to take advantage of all the great food that we have and all the outdoor activities. It is a very outdoorsy, nature-based city if you can be one. So I value that in the friends that I have here. Because we just love San Francisco. And it’s this thing we have in common. So it’s also this; I don’t know what the right word is. Almost a reverence for what the city has to offer in terms of location and all that.

And yeah, the city has changed a lot. It used to be a lot more artistic, and it’s definitely more techy. And there’s all kinds of 20-something hipsters in their Teslas. They have all this money, and you're like, “Who are you with all that money?” So it has a different vibe than it did. But I do think there’s just something about it.

So I choose to be here. And I am pretty close to nature. I’m a couple of blocks from the water. Which, to me, that is the nature that I want. I love the water. I don’t want to be in it, because it’s cold. And I see people swimming, and I’m like, “You must be crazy.” But I really love that. And it does; we have the benefits of the food and the great things about the city and the culture. But also the benefits of being in California and what it’s like to have so much, relatively speaking, fresh air for a city. You know? Especially with, again, the Bay really close to us.

But we chose to leave behind a gym that we absolutely loved, and a community there. And aside from our family and older friends that we’ve had for a long time. Leaving the gym behind was probably the hardest thing. Because we saw our gym friends more than we saw anybody else. And that was a really hard decision. But we just had to do what we felt was right for us in terms of our everyday life, and not really worry as much about the other implications. Because there are always going to be downsides to anything that you choose. It’s never all positive. And you have to weigh the pros and the cons against your own measure. Not what someone else thinks has more value.

Because many of my friends, back in New Jersey, for example. Being closer to their parents weighs more heavily. Perhaps it’s because they have children, and they really want to be close to their parents for that reason. Or whatever it is. Having each other. That has more value to them than other things. And I think all of it is fair, and we all get to decide which has more value. And in terms of whether or not we can be healthy, I just don’t think; I don’t think just living somewhere on a farm is what will be the answer to the happiness and the health. Because I do think; what if you hate it? Then that’s not healthy. Right?

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: So that’s my two cents on that. {laughs}

5. Diane and Liz’s friendship [25:10]

Liz Wolfe: I actually totally wanted to talk to you about this, one on one. And then I saw that this podcast topic had popped up. And I was like, “Well she’s really busy writing the book. I don’t want to bother her with this. We’ll just hash it out when we do the podcast. I think that will be good.”

Diane Sanfilippo: I’m not that busy. I’m not too busy to talk to you. And I will say, in the last 6 years, you could have easily have been like, “I don’t want this relationship to get deeper, and have decided not to A) continue to do the podcast. Or B) really have a real friendship.” You know?

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: So as you were talking about the military life, I’m like, “Yeah but we’re friends this whole time.”

Liz Wolfe: I know.

Diane Sanfilippo: We didn’t even know each other. {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: It’s so weird. Our friendship is so weird. And I mean that in a good way. It’s very, very unique in that I think it has harnessed my Obliger tendencies where I really enjoy showing up; not showing up for you, but showing up for this. And this is something that makes me feel accomplished. That makes me feel like even if I’m nowhere in any of my other projects, I can show up and hopefully bring some kind of quality content to our audience. And also chat with you. And you are kind of required to show up. So I don’t feel as guilty asking you for help.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing}

Liz Wolfe: Because if we didn’t have this podcast, it would just be me bugging you for help all the time. And that would not; I just have internal checks and balances against that in my body. And I was just; oh, you sent me!

Diane Sanfilippo: But that’s exactly what you just said, how you don’t want to be vulnerable and asking people for help makes you vulnerable.

Liz Wolfe: Yes.

Diane Sanfilippo: But it makes me trust you more.

Liz Wolfe: That video you just sent me. That Brene Brown video.

Diane Sanfilippo: Obsession.

Liz Wolfe: We have to share it with this podcast episode.

Diane Sanfilippo: It’s so good.

Liz Wolfe: You guys have to; because it is about, you have to open that two-way street. I would show up for you, whether it’s for a podcast or anything that you needed. But me asking you for help for some reason I don’t want to do that. And she talks about that in this talk. And we’ll have to link it.

Diane Sanfilippo: But you do. And more over time, I think you're more comfortable with it over time. You know what I mean? I’m also the kind of person who offers unsolicited help sometimes. {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: {laughs} Which is helpful to me.

Diane Sanfilippo: Whether that’s helpful or not, I don’t know.

Liz Wolfe: But maybe, if you and I were in the same city. Would we see each other all the time? How would we handle that? I just wonder. There’s something about, I don’t know what it is.

Diane Sanfilippo: I think if you didn’t have a kid we would.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: And I think having a kid. And I’ve told all my friends that, who are pregnant or having kids. I’m like, we just won’t see each other as much. And it’s not because I don’t love them, or am happy for them, or what have you. It’s just we have a different life and do different things as a result.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah. I would not; if it wasn’t for this podcast, I probably would have found a way to drift. Not drift away from you, but to have never gotten this. We’ve built this friendship from showing up for this podcast.

Diane Sanfilippo: Mm-hmm.

Liz Wolfe: And if we weren’t; it’s not like we would have had a friendship anyway if we weren’t compatible, because we are. But I probably, and this is me thinking about my tendencies and trying to kind of figure out why I do what I do. But I probably would have found a way to put a little bit of space between us so that it would never be like, “Oh I have to ask her for something but I don’t want to bother her.” So it never would have come to that. I would have probably put a layer between the two of us so there was no obligatory anything, so I couldn’t do something stupid to make you not want to be my friend anymore. That type of thing.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} I’m not laughing.

Liz Wolfe: I literally, I would have. It’s so true.

Diane Sanfilippo: It is funny because.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: But for you to think that is so funny too. Because everybody I know wants to be Liz Wolfe’s friend. Nobody is clamoring to be my friend.

Liz Wolfe: That’s because nobody knows me that well. {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: I think that’s unfair.

Liz Wolfe: Well probably. That was a bad joke. That’s another tendency I have that I need to not do. Deflecting.

Diane Sanfilippo: Is this a podcast, or is this therapy? What are we doing?

Liz Wolfe: This is therapy.

Diane Sanfilippo: I love it, it’s good.

Liz Wolfe: This is podcast therapy. I’m good with it.

Diane Sanfilippo: It’s good stuff.

Liz Wolfe: Because I know so many people are listening to this, and probably recognizing themselves in the things that we’re saying.

Diane Sanfilippo: I think so too. I mean, I think the vulnerability or the trust video that I sent you. And I shared it with a bunch of people. A lot of people watched that from my Instagram story link, when I shared it last week. Well, when you guys are listening to this I don’t know how long ago it will have been. But it’s really interesting to dissect and figure out why you trust certain people, and certain people who have come into and then left your life. This was; it hit me like a sledgehammer in the head watching this video.

Because I have had relationships that have ended, and I’m like, that is why it ended. We did not trust each other, for whatever the reason was. You know? Out of 6 or 7 elements of trust; I’m like, “Wow. Three of those were never there.” You know? And recognizing how in new friendships, how apparent it is that I can trust certain people because of their behavior. And just Brene Brown putting words to what that is, what that looks like and describing it. I was like, “OMG. {laughs} This is exactly why I feel I can trust this person. And I know that I can.”

Anyway. Really interesting. And I think you and I do have a really interesting friendship. Because I think that is the thing that we have more than anything else, is that we really trust each other. Because we’ve done all of those things over the years. And I think that regardless of a social friendship where we might see each other more. You know, we used to travel together and share a hotel room and alternate who pooped in the hotel bathroom. {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: That’s close, you know. We did use to spend physical time together.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: But I think that, I don’t know. I don’t think I need the physical time as much as the really deep trusting connection. And to circle back on the whole point of this was homestead life versus urban life. The real question at hand is about connection. And as much as I do think spending time in real life is important, and I stress it to so many people about business. Right? I always talk about getting people to build their business in real life.

I think if you have a friendship that’s real, and it’s based on conversations. And not only showing up for each other; which you show up for me, but I show up for you. And you do ask me things. You ask me to change the day or the time. And I have no problem doing that, because you show up for me. So it’s like a full on balance. We do that to each other, and I think that’s just something that over time we’ve learned in this many years, that’s the give and take. That’s how our relationship works. And that’s how a business and working relationship works. And it can go deeper into a friendship when you’ve actually built that kind of a trust. And you know that you can count on each other.

So I think that that’s been; I don’t know. It’s come out of this connection over the internet. But I think it’s different than just being in real life with people. Maybe part of it is just going through that many; I mean, how many other people do you potentially spend an hour a week with besides a spouse or your parent, or whoever. And your kid now. You know, in terms of friends? So I think that it does. And it’s demanding. We demand a lot of each other. Every single week, we’re demanding of each other. So I think that just puts a friendship under a microscope. Anywho.

Just one more thing I’m going to say about that. It’s a little off topic, but it’s on topic to me. Is that in terms of you feeling the upside of being the Obliger and reporting to me, or feeling like you're like, “OK I have to do this because she’s counting on me.”

Liz Wolfe: No, I get to do this! I get to show up for something and make that, that’s a good thing. I feel good about this. Continue.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, 100%. I definitely feel, in terms of the behind the scenes. This isn’t stuff that we talk about a lot on the show. But you will challenge my personality, and very few people will. You will call me on something that maybe wasn’t the best move on my part. Just whatever it is, and you won’t be like, “That was wrong.” It’s just a counterpoint, and very few people do that. So when I find a friend who will be so honest to at least point out, “Diane that was a little harsh.” Or, “You could have done this, and it just would have been softer and would it really have been so bad if you had done it this way.”

Or literally, you guys, we will write emails to who knows who, and I’m like. You write the email. Because if I write it, people will think it’s mean because I’m so direct. So that’s something that I think also comes through with the podcast. People have asked so many times how do you make it work with a cohost. Or would you have done it all over again. I think Scott just asked me this recently. And I was like, I would never have gotten this far without working together.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: As evidenced by my business podcast. I went 55 episodes. It was like, I had a good run.

Liz Wolfe: That’s a lot of episodes. Real Food Liz radio went maybe 5 episodes. {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah. Because I wasn’t obliging anybody!

Diane Sanfilippo: I saw it coming, not because I didn’t think you were capable. Just because I knew that we had this. But look; for me too. If you and I were doing a show about business every week, we would both have shown up to each other. So anyway. All that to say.

Liz Wolfe: True. And I also got pregnant. That’s the other part. I feel like Real Food Liz Radio…

Diane Sanfilippo: Here’s the real problem.

Liz Wolfe: The real problem is the… yeah. Real Food Liz Radio.

Diane Sanfilippo: You got pregnant and were on this show, too. Side note.

Liz Wolfe: Oh, I like peaced out for a while though. And you were ok with that.

Diane Sanfilippo: I know.

Liz Wolfe: But with Real Food Liz Radio, I was wanting to highlight people who were doing awesome things. So in a way, that was kind of coinciding with my Obliger tendencies. But then I got pregnant, and I was like, “Oh. I’m not passionate about this.” {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: And you needed someone. I think you needed someone to oblige to in some way.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah. More so than, yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: 100%.

Diane Sanfilippo: So, all this to say; well, we’ll give our final thoughts in a few minutes. But I think that the balance of nature and connection and all of that; I think it can be managed independently of whether you're in the country or the city. And I would not make that the decision. We’re all capable of making those connections; deep, social connections. And having that tribe, regardless of where we live. I think.

Liz Wolfe: Must agree.

Diane Sanfilippo: Today’s podcast is sponsored by Vital Choice seafood and organics. Purveyor of premium sustainably sourced seafood and a certified B corporation. Vital choice offers a wide range of fish, shellfish, humanely raised meat, protein rich bone broths, and paleo friendly snacks like organic dark chocolate, super antioxidant trail mix, and bison jerky. As the days get longer and the grilling season heats up, www.vitalchoice.com is your source for real food.

6. Kitchen tips [36:58]

Liz Wolfe: Alright. I think we need some kitchen tips.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: We haven’t done kitchen tips in a while. I have nothing for you.

Diane Sanfilippo: You have no? Come on.

Liz Wolfe: I mean, Niki put some suggestions in here.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing}

Liz Wolfe: Which is hilarious that she things I even have foresight enough to buy precut veggies. Not to mention the thing about that is I hate these single use plastics. I really do. I think we should be forced to eat all of the plastic that our stuff comes in.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: Just so we really understand the impact that that has. But I really don’t. I need some inspiration. So I want some ideas from you that I can try.

Diane Sanfilippo: Well, there are some notes here for me as well. Which I also appreciate, and think is very nice and kind, as if I understand how to keep herbs fresh. It was like; I think the notes are like, Niki wants to know how do I keep my herbs fresh {laughing}.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: I love her. Well, let’s see. How about I give a tip on; because. Ok, here’s one. How do you cut your spaghetti squash? Do you cut it lengthwise or crosswise, meaning do you cut so that when you open it up its two longer halves.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: Or do you cut it the other way.

Liz Wolfe: That’s what I do. I stab holes in it, cook it, and then when I cut it I cut the two sides off and then cut it lengthwise.

Diane Sanfilippo: Ok. So I used to cut it that way. And first of all, it’s kind of harder, because it’s so long and awkward.

Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.

Diane Sanfilippo: But then, I think I was looking. I mean, I don’t usually look at kitchen hack videos or websites on the best way to do things. I basically just trial and error, figure it out. So then I started cutting it the other way. So you end up with two taller halves that can stand up upside down on your baking sheet or what have you. I actually think the noodles come out a little more noodley that way.

Liz Wolfe: Say noodley. Say noodley one more time.

Diane Sanfilippo: Noodley. Heidely ho there, neighbor.

Liz Wolfe: {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: Noodlely doodely. Zoodely doodely. I don’t think you particularly care. I just know this about you. You're like; we get the thing cooked. We eat the thing. And it’s good. I mean; correct me if I’m wrong. I just don’t think you care how long the noodles are in your spaghetti squash.

Liz Wolfe: No, I don’t.

Diane Sanfilippo: OK, you're like, whatever. But I think some people. I mean, I’m that way about zoodles. People set their standards way too high in their expectations for what kind of pasta noodle will result from a water-rich vegetable. They’re like, “How do I get it less watery?” I’m like, “Use pasta.”

Liz Wolfe: {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: Because this is a water-rich vegetable. So, you're eating something that’s 90% water. How do I get it less watery? Don’t do zoodles. Anyway. Just a lot more time and effort than I’m willing to put in. But, if you want to cut your spaghetti squash crosswise, so around the middle the other way. Around the belly part of it. Scoop out the seeds. Put it face down and roast it. Or if you're going to nuke it, nuke it. Whatever you're going to do. And I think you’ll have more spaghetti looking noodles. Which for some people matters, because they’re trying to get their family transitioned over to eating more real food. And the more it can look like spaghetti noodles, the better for them.

So anyway, I’ve started cutting it that way. And it works pretty well. And that was way too long talking about the direction in which I cut a spaghetti squash. But there you have it.

Liz Wolfe: No, I very much enjoyed that. That’s actually really interesting. And I could see myself having a little more fun. I could almost do a little blender thing with a fork to scrape it. That could be kind of fun.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. Something like that.

Liz Wolfe: Eh, I don’t know. Never mind.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: That’s for that though. That’s great.

7. Closing thoughts [40:43]

Diane Sanfilippo: How about some closing thoughts for us on homestead live versus urban life, and connections?

Liz Wolfe: I feel like you already kind of gave the closing thoughts. I think you're really, really right. It doesn’t exactly matter where we live. We can cultivate these things. Just organically, no matter where we are. I also think that we’ve said this in a couple of episodes. We said this in the blood sugar episode. That it’s never really about what you think it’s about. So for me, digging kind of deeper into some personality stuff. Understanding myself better. Maybe understanding some of the patterns I have. Because now, in my 30s, I feel like I have some very obvious patterns to look back on. Which maybe I didn’t, 10 or 15 years ago, have the hindsight to notice these things.

But it’s never just about that first problem that comes to mind. There are so many different things contributing to how we look at the world, and how we look at our lives, and what we want and what we don’t want. So maybe before I make a decision, I’m going to delve into this a little bit more and see how I can; I hate the word optimize because it just sounds almost like biohacking. But maybe I can figure out how to enjoy what I have rather than being in such a hurry to change things when things feel uncomfortable.

Alright friends, that’s it for this week. You can find me, Liz, at http://realfoodliz.com/ and Diane at http://dianesanfilippo.com. Join our email lists for free goodies and updates that you don’t find anywhere else on our website or on the podcast. I’ve started to do email Monday’s once again. So sign up for my list, you’ll actually get some pretty decent content. While you’re on the internet, leave us an iTunes review. See you next week.

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