All About the Enneagram

#399: All About the Enneagram

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All About the Enneagram Topics

  1. News and updates from Diane & Liz [2:00]
    1. Balanced Bites Master Class
    2. Beautycounter
    3. Baby Making and Beyond
  2. The Enneagram Types [22:08]
  3. The root of the types [30:47]
  4. Resources for typing [38:49]
  5. The Balanced Bites husband types [41:28]
  6. Overcoming the 6 for entrepreneurship [49:27]
  7. Liz's take on being a 6 [53:46]
  8. Benefits of knowing someone's type [56:47]
  9. Pitfalls, favorites, and Mean Girls [1:03:42]
  10. Driven Podcast update [1:08:26]

The episodes are also available in iTunes, Spotify & Stitcher.

 Show sponsors:
NTA | Podcast Sponsor | Balanced Bites Podcast | Diane Sanfilippo





All About the Enneagram All About the Enneagram All About the Enneagram

You’re listening to the Balanced Bites podcast episode 399.

Diane Sanfilippo: Welcome to the Balanced Bites podcast. I’m Diane; a certified nutrition consultant, and the New York Times bestselling author of Practical Paleo and the 21-Day Sugar Detox. My newest book, Keto Quick Start, released on January 1, 2019. I live in San Francisco with my husband and fur kids.

Liz Wolfe: I’m Liz; a nutritional therapy practitioner, and author of the Wall Street Journal bestseller Eat the Yolks; The Purely Primal Skincare Guide; and the online program Baby Making and Beyond. I live on a lake in the mystical land of the Midwest, outside of Kansas City.

We’re the co-creators of the Balanced Bites Master Class, and we’ve been bringing you this award-winning podcast for nearly 8 years. This show will be coming to a close with our next episode; number 400. However, we will have all of the episodes saved for you to listen, or relisten, any time you want. Stay tuned for more info on Diane’s new show with Cassy Joy Garcia; Driven.

Remember our disclaimer: The materials and content within this podcast are intended as general information only, and are not to be considered a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Before we get started, let’s hear from one of our sponsors.

Diane Sanfilippo: Today’s podcast is sponsored by Perfect Keto. Dr. Anthony Gustin and his teams have created a line of supplements that are super clean and effective, no matter what your dietary needs. I’ve been blending their MCT oil powder into my matcha latte lately. Not only are MCTs; medium chain triglycerides; a premium source of your body’s preferred type of energy, and help to fuel your brain and body, but there’s also no added taste. It makes your coffee or matcha wonderfully creamy. Check them out at and use the code BALANCED for 20% off at Perfect Keto; and their sister site, Equip Foods.

1. News and updates from Diane & Liz [2:00]

Liz Wolfe: Alright, so Diane, what is going on over by the Bay?

Diane Sanfilippo: Well, we both collectively have a big announcement that the Master Class; I think we talked about it on the last episode. The Balanced Bites Master Class is opening this summer.

Liz Wolfe: Wo-hoo!

Diane Sanfilippo: So, I know tons of listeners have been like; wait, what about the Master Class? It is opening. So enrollment will be open from June 17th to the 30th, and the class goes from July 8th to September 15th. It’s $497 for the class. It is a very comprehensive class. Trying to think what we should let folks know about it. We probably haven’t talked about it enough in the last few weeks.

Liz Wolfe: I guess we haven’t. Not in a while, huh?

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. But it’s one of those courses where we know that so many of you who are listening; we know tons of you have gone to nutrition school. We know that. We know that because for the last 8 years, we’ve been {laughs} recommending that so many of you go to nutrition school.

But this class is really for those of you who are listening who are; you’re with us every week. You’re geeking out on nutrition. You’re listening to lots of different health podcasts. And you’re curious about either going to nutrition school, but not ready to spend thousands of dollars. Or, you want to dive deeper and just kind of demystify what’s going on out there in the nutrition space, get focused. Just cut through the noise; cut through the dogma. You know that’s what we do on this show. It’s not about just eating keto, or just eating high-carb, or any of that. It’s really about figuring out what works for you and your body, as well as understanding the background, the history, the science, etc., of real food nutrition in a really easy to understand way.

If you, obviously, have been listening to this show, you will love learning from Liz and myself. And it’s in a much more organized and sequential set up with the modules. We really walk you through the history. We talk about fats and proteins and carbs. And we just kind of get through everything; digestion, blood sugar, etc.

So head over to You can jump on the wait list now. Make sure your name is there, we’ll let you know when it opens officially. And if you're following Balanced Bites podcast on Instagram, we’re going to be sharing more insider clips and teases and things like that. So, yeah. I don’t know. Is there anything else you want to add in about the Master Class?

Liz Wolfe: Well I feel like we kind of did a really good job of; I don’t know what the word would be. Balancing truly nerding out; like really going, like the back to college type of nerding out with just more real-life application. And to me, that’s what we’ve really brought to the entire topic, is context. And a lot of it is how you and I built our body of knowledge. And how we know what we know. And what it is we think is really important in a foundational understanding of the body, and how it works. Or how it should work. And how at times we kind of experience different adaptations and dysfunctions and what not. And we’ve really kind of put it all out there for folks to consume, I think, in a really easy and elegant way. It’s not a chore to go through all of the material.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, it’s fun.

Liz Wolfe: It’s visually appealing. I think it’s a really great program.

Diane Sanfilippo: Awesome. Well, we would love to see you guys inside the class. We will be your teachers, of course. And I think you’ll enjoy it. The other thing you get is a really wonderful community of other like-minded, primarily women, and a few men. Who are taking the class, and you can kind of get to know each other through the interwebs.

One of the other big, big bonuses to taking this class; for those of you who are curious about potentially becoming an NTP or nutrition consultant or any kind of nutrition coach, this class for less than $500 is going to give an insane leg up on whatever program you may choose to do next. The benefit of that is that when you start a nutrition program already knowing so much, you're able to get that much more out of what you're learning in the new curriculum.

For example, when I started at Bauman College many years ago, I knew a bunch about nutrition. I didn’t know a ton, right? I learned a lot in that program, but I knew just enough so that the first handful of classes, it didn’t feel like I was still trying to get my footing. And even as I went through the course, I’m a class; don’t just give me a book. I want to come learn, audio, visual, etc. And I really found that I was able to ask better questions and get more from what I was learning, because I knew more coming in. So I think that’s what this is going to do for any of you who do want to go on and become nutritionists, NTPs, etc. So, just throwing that out there.

So a couple of other things; those of you who have been following along for a while, you know that Balanced Bites spices have been rocking and rolling for a couple of years. Balanced Bites meals also rocking and rolling. And one new thing we released just recently is the ability to create a custom back; we call it build a box. So for those of you who can’t eat pork, now you can order a box that has just whatever you want. Beef and chicken. For anyone who just has certain preferences, or you don’t’ want to try something that doesn’t sound appealing to you, etc., you can build your own box. So make sure you're following @BalancedBites on Instagram, not to be confused with @BalancedBitespodcast.

Which, if you’re following there, that will convert to the new Driven show. So we’ll give you details on that soon.

One other note; I just recently put up on, which is a separate website from at this point. I just put up a big post about Beautycounter, because lots of folks were asking questions. Just concerned; just the business model, and not really understanding how it works. Or being a little bit weary of just the whole model in and of itself, with direct sales or potential MLM, all of that. I think a lot of us have heard horror stories in the past of certain companies, and I just wanted to dig in and demystify a lot of the assumptions that folks have. Because for those of you who have been listening to this show, or following our work for any period of time, you know that we wouldn’t be involved with a company that was anything other than just totally legit. So I wanted to do that, so you can head over to and find that blog post.

What is going on over by the lake?

Liz Wolfe: I was muted, sorry. I would love to piggy back on what you are saying about the business model of Beautycounter and becoming involved with that company. Because I just did an opportunity call with one of the women on my team. And something that really struck me, is I think there are a lot of things that are working in our, or many people’s, misconception of a business model that involves location freedom, time freedom, personal agency about how much effort you put in, and how much you want to build it, and how much you don’t. And basically, the types of people that are traditionally working in that field.

And I think part of it; and this is a throwback to an episode we did a long, long time ago where I think we talked about women and money. And this is what it reminded me of. Because you and I had a conversation; either that or it was an interview that you did with somebody. And for years, this has echoed in my mind. You said something like; I don’t know why so many women are almost afraid of money. {laughs}

And that’s really…

Diane Sanfilippo: That sounds like something I would say. I probably was talking to JJ Virgin.

Liz Wolfe: I can’t remember. It might have been her; it might have been someone who is like an accounting professional.

Diane Sanfilippo: Oh, maybe.

Liz Wolfe: It was a long time ago. And what I thought the reason that has echoed for me is because I’ve noticed over the years how many different ways in my life that I will pour inordinate amounts of effort into something, as long as I’m not getting paid for it. But if I’m getting paid for something, then all of a sudden it feels weird, or it feels wrong, or it feels like I’m getting away with something or I’m doing something I’m not supposed to do.

And it seems like this may uniquely affect women. I don’t really know. I haven’t talked to my husband about it. But this idea of why is it that I’m so happy to spend hours doing somebody else’s bidding without getting paid for it, and I feel great about that. And I feel altruistic; and yet when it comes to supporting my family and making an honest living, I suddenly feel uncomfortable with the prospect of being paid. It’s very, very strange. And it comes up a lot in this conversation. And that’s something that we tackled on the opportunity call.

I think what we’ve done at Beautycounter is to really take the best of multiple business models; which includes some of the best of traditional retail, online shopping, and also the community aspect of direct sales. And there are a ton of different ways to structure a Beautycounter business. But one of the things that I also said to the folks that I was speaking to was; why are we so focused on direct sales businesses that we believe have done something wrong or sketchy, and yet we’re not talking about how Claire’s was selling makeup with asbestos to preteens. Or Journey, or whatever that was in the news.

Diane Sanfilippo: Oh yeah.

Liz Wolfe: There are many brick and mortar stores that are not doing the right thing by their employees or their customers every day of the week. And when you buy something from a friend, or a person that has a major personal stake in the business that they’re running, you're supporting them. And they have a much bigger stake in it than whoever is selling you whatever it is at Claire’s.

There are so many good things about it; we don’t focus on that enough.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. That’s one of the reasons I wrote that post. Also, there’s just this assumption that just because there’s this model involved that there’s something inherently bad. Where as you said, traditional retail, the company is inherently good. I just think that’s an unfair, and an uneducated assumption, honestly. And I don’t think anyone who listens to our show wants to be uneducated. I think everybody does want to know what is the truth. Anyway. It’s interesting stuff.

I wonder how much of that diving just briefly into the show topic we have for today on the Enneagram; I wonder how much of that is sort of based on these different personality types, too. Because I think there could be a few of those types that represent a large population of people that also do have those; I don’t know, reservations around money. Because I am the opposite. I’m like; why am I doing this and I’m just sitting here twiddling my thumbs, doing work and not being paid for it. Like, I’m literally the opposite.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: Watching anyone do something, and I’m like; is this a hobby? Can you monetize that? That’s my inclination. It’s been that way for forever. And I think there is something at the root of it, because I think this desire for personal freedom and to not be controlled is so strong for an 8, and a Rebel, and all of that. For me, money is freedom. So I just see earning money as a path to freedom.

Liz Wolfe: You don’t have all of that shame attached to the idea of money, and having more of it, as many of us do.

Diane Sanfilippo: No, not at all.

Liz Wolfe: You're like; no. Why, how is that even possible. No.

Diane Sanfilippo: No. And because I’m not selfish with it either. I give of it readily when there’s someone in need in my life. I don’t hoard it, but I also don’t block away from it. Because I don’t see how that’s productive. It’s interesting.

Liz Wolfe: Very much so. And the only other update I had was we’re still chugging along with Baby Making and Beyond. We’ve hit the roadblocks that you would expect to hit when you're launching a 4-year long project. But we’ve been doing some really interesting revisions to our research on different topics. We’ve also just put together a really extensive, more so than we ever thought we would. But a really extensive discussion on ultrasound. I don’t think we’re really getting the full story on ultrasound from either side of the spectrum. The more holistic, kind of Sarah Buckley side and then the more medicalized side.

And really, there’s some pretty well established and agreed upon truths in the literature; in the scientific literature that we’re sort of bringing to light and explaining so people understand where caution is warranted, and what we really know about it. And what we aren’t 100% sure about, and what maybe is not borne out in the literature. So I’m really excited about launching that probably at the end of the week.

I don’t know. It’s just an ongoing process of working with the research team, and writing, and revising. That’s why you pay a lot more for it than you pay for a book, and I’m not ashamed to say it. Speaking of money.

Diane Sanfilippo: Here, here.

Liz Wolfe: Here, here.

Diane Sanfilippo: Can you give people the elevator pitch on what is Baby Making and Beyond? If they only started listening to this show in the last few weeks, or even few months. Because I don’t know that you’ve fully explained what it is.

Liz Wolfe: No.

Diane Sanfilippo: To newer listeners.

Liz Wolfe: I talk about it here and there, and we’ve had some episodes with my partner in the project.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. Just let them know what it is. And then obviously quick link to where they can find it.

Liz Wolfe: OK. Well, Baby Making and Beyond is a comprehensive program comprised of several courses on pregnancy, fertility and hormones, birth, postpartum, and the foundational elements that will take you through all of those phases healthfully and happily, we hope. So basically we’ve put together a program that’s’ based around four core concepts. Which is nutrition, exercise and movement, stress, and sleep. And then on top of those, we’ve built out additional courses on hormones and fertility, pregnancy, birth, and postpartum.

So what we’ve really wanted to do with this; or what I selfishly wanted to do with this is I wanted to build a program that I wished had existed when I had my daughter. I wanted to basically be that mom friend to everybody, but that mom friend that has experts on call. So if you're sitting in your bed at 3 a.m., Googling ultrasound is it safe; you can actually say, hey, I actually have a friend, Liz, who I can ask about that. And you can log into Baby Making and Beyond and look at what we have to say about ultrasound. And rest assured that it is the most evidence-based. The most up to date. And the most conscientiously reviewed information that you could possibly get that you probably won’t get anywhere else on the internet. That’s the hope.

Diane Sanfilippo: I love that. I will say, if I was ever going to have a baby, luckily you are actually on my speed dial.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing} So I would be texting you incessantly. Because again, touching on the nature of your Enneagram type. You are the person who will dig in and make sure that you know all sides of the story, because it’s so important to you to be prepared for all the questions and all the potential ups and downs.

Liz Wolfe: Which is also why we keep having to; we’re figuring it out. We’re figuring out a decent pace of; we don’t have to add this information. It’s not necessarily material to the topic. It’s maybe interesting. For example, we dug up some really interesting stuff about how regulations for; this is not a scientific term. But this is why I’m good as the face of the program, and this is why I have scientists that are actually making sure I say everything accurately. But the intensity; strength or intensity of ultrasound, the regulations around that changed in 1992.

And what we were trying to do, is we were trying to figure out what literature that’s being cited by people that are making recommendations about ultrasound in the now; what recommendations were borne out of research from before 1992, and what recommendations were borne out of research that occurred after 1992. Because if that intensity of ultrasound and those regulations changed; which was a big topic of concern from some of the world’s foremost experts in ultrasound technology. If those changed, then we really should have a new body of literature that we’re pulling from, rather than pulling from literature that was completed prior to 1992.

So that’s the type of work that we’re putting into this. And it can get a little bit; sometimes I need you or somebody to be like; Liz, stop. This is good. You're telling people what they need to know. You don’t need to keep pulling it out, and redoing it, and whatnot. So that’s the challenge, for sure. But I think it’s a good problem to have.

Diane Sanfilippo: I think it’s awesome. You’re writing multiple books at once.

Liz Wolfe: Pretty much. And all credit to my research team leader, Amanda Torres, from the Curious Coconut. She’s amazing. And she’s my expert on speed dial.

Diane Sanfilippo: Love that.

Liz Wolfe: So, friend. It was your birthday.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: What did you get up to on your birthday?

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} I mean, frankly I was sitting on my couch writing that blog post. {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: Oh my god. I can’t believe that I didn’t harass you on your birthday. Will you forgive me?

Diane Sanfilippo: Oh, I make it a point to try to not publicize too widely. Because I’m like; I can’t really handle my phone blowing up with messages of people who feel obligated to wish me a happy birthday. It’s really fine.

So yeah. I was just hanging out. But we had lots of yummy food cooked at home. Scott made some steaks. I don’t know, we just kind of chilled out. I just really wanted to relax because I was in New York last week with Cassy Joy, helping her just kind of be there in support for the release of Cook Once, Eat All Week. Which hit as high as number 5 on Amazon, and it is amazing. I mean, {laughs} I told Cassy; I’m like, I’m pooping my pants for you! I was just so excited. I mean, not literally, obviously. But I was just so excited for her.

I mean, only a little bit less excited than I would have been had it been my own book. The percentage is maybe 5% less. So I was just super pumped for her. And it’s still crushing, and she’s doing awesome. We had an event at the Beautycounter store, which was fun. So I was kind of recovering from that. Because listen; at 41, recovering from three hours of jet lag and three nights of not as much sleep as I’d like; that takes me a few days now. So, yeah. That was it. That was my birthday.

Liz Wolfe: The Balanced Bites podcast is sponsored in part by the Nutritional Therapy Association. The NTA trains and certifies nutritional therapy practitioners and consultants (including me; I’m an NTP), emphasizing bio-individuality and the range of dietary strategies that support wellness. The NTA emphasizes local, whole, properly prepared nutrient dense foods as the key to restoring balance and enhancing the body’s ability to heal.

The NTA’s nutritional therapy practitioner program and fully online nutritional therapy consultant program empower graduates with the education and skills needed to launch a successful, fulfilling career in holistic nutrition. If you're interested in learning about holistic nutrition but don’t necessarily want to become a practitioner, check out their new Foundational Wellness course. To learn more about the NTA’s nutritional therapy programs, go to Registration is now open for their May class, through April 26th. You can learn more and save your seat by going to

2. The Enneagram Types [22:08]

Diane Sanfilippo: Ok. Today we are going to talk about the Enneagram. And O-M-G, you guys are excited about this topic. We loved reading through your comments on the Instagram post. But before we begin, I’m going to give just a quick rundown on what the enneagram is. And for those of you who have listened to this show for any length of time, we’ve definitely talked about it. And we’ve touched on it a little bit.

My favorite online resource, for those of you who are interested, is There are lots of books, and we might talk about one or two of them on this episode. But is the one resource that I really like. It’s quick and easy. It’s a clean site.

So, essentially the enneagram is a 9-personality structure. And it is based on old wisdom about what’s going on with our core; well, our core damage, or our core trauma, essentially as a child. So we don’t change from one essential personality type to another. The descriptions apply universally to males and females. No type is inherently masculine or feminine; though I would argue that being one type or another as a man or a woman may have its own unique challenges.

Not everything in each description will apply to you all the time. Because we do fluctuate between being either healthy, average, or unhealthy versions of our personality type. And I actually personally find that framework of unhealthy to healthy to be very interesting. And one of the most informative parts of the enneagram. Because you can see yourself in different parts of your life, or in different scenarios, and how you respond, and whether it’s a healthy or an unhealthy response for your personality type, so I think that’s really fascinating.

The enneagram uses numbers to designate each of the types, because numbers are a neutral value. So they imply the whole range of attitudes and behaviors of each type, without specifying anything either positive or negative. So there’s not one type that’s better than the other. Every type has its pros and cons. The numerical ranking is not significant. It’s not like the 1s are the best at the 9s are the worst; or the opposite. None of it means anything in terms of value.

Again, no type is better than the other. All personality types have unique assets and liabilities. Some are considered more desirable than others in different cultures or different groups. Or maybe; some of this I’m getting directly from, so if you're curious, that’s where I’m looking right now. But, some of the types, I think, are more well-suited to different types of roles. Different jobs. Different whatever it’s going to be out in the world.

That being said, there’s no one type that’s best for everything. There’s no one type that’s better at parenting, or better at being an entrepreneur, or whatever it’s going to be. We just have different ways of approaching things and identifying your basic personality type helps to light the pathway forward of how to handle self-improvement. Because when you see where some of these weaknesses are, it’s really so much easier to then say; oh my gosh, that is exactly what I do when I’m feeling unsure, or afraid, or threatened. And how do I move away from that response to something that’s maybe a healthier response.

So that’s kind of the basic. I’m going to read the very basic descriptions so that everyone can hear from type 1 through type 9. And this is just super high level. You are not necessarily going to know which one is you just from these really basic descriptions. But we’ll get into that more in a second.

So type 1 is called the Reformer. The rational, idealistic type. They are principled, purposeful, self-controlled, and perfectionistic. So for reference, my husband is a type 1. You can just kind of put that feather in your cap when you hear the rest of the types.

And Liz, if you know anyone who is a specific type other than my type and yours and you want to shout them out; do you know Spence’s type?

Liz Wolfe: I think I made him take the test and I think he’s either {laughs} he was the exact same as me but he was really evenly split between a 6 and a 9; and so was my sister, which is so funny.

Diane Sanfilippo: Oh lord. Ok.

Liz Wolfe: I know. So I don’t know that he’s done the internal work yet to really figure out who he is.

Diane Sanfilippo: Fair. Ok, so type 2 is the Helper. The caring, interpersonal type. Demonstrative, generous, people-pleasing, and possessive.

Type 3 is the Achiever. Success-oriented, pragmatic type. Adaptive, excelling, driven, and image conscious. And a well-known type 3 in our world would be Cassy Joy. She’s a type 3. I love me a type 3.

Type 4 is the Individualist. The sensitive withdrawn type. Expressive, dramatic, self-absorbed, and temperamental. That sounds a little towards the negative side. But maybe I guess they’re giving us positives and negatives on all of these. So that’s the Individualist.

The Investigator is a type 5. The intense, cerebral type. Perceptive, innovative, secretive, and isolated.

Type 6, the Loyalist.

Liz Wolfe: That’s me!

Diane Sanfilippo: The committed, security-oriented type. Engaging, responsible, anxious, and suspicious. Interesting.

Liz Wolfe: And Nom-Nom Paleo is a 6, as well.

Diane Sanfilippo: I am a big fan of 6s. Because one of the core issues of the type 8 is loyalty. So I love a Loyalist. Many of my closest friends are type 6s.

Liz Wolfe: It also goes very well with being an Obliger, I think.

Diane Sanfilippo: I think so too. And I think the Investigator, which is type 5, goes really well with being a Questioner. Though, those are not all; there’s not a distinct consistent mapping of the four tendencies to this. But I think there are probably some more common combinations.

Ok, so type 7 is the Enthusiast. The busy, fun-loving type. Spontaneous, versatile, distractible, and scattered. A well known in our circle type 7 is Emily Schromm. She’s a type 7.

Liz Wolfe: Ah! Interesting.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. And she fully embraces it. Yeah, she’s totally a type 7. So type 8 is the Challenger. Powerful, dominating type. Self-confident, decisive, willful, and confrontational. Both hands up in the air; I am obviously a type 8. {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: I have a 7 wing.

Liz Wolfe: I’m guessing you didn’t split evenly between any types.

Diane Sanfilippo: Absolutely not.

Liz Wolfe: No, no, no.

Diane Sanfilippo: No. But I do have a 7 wing, which means I’m a type 8 but I have some of those type 7 qualities. Which is so obvious for me; I have a million projects. I can’t just have one job. I mean, it’s so obvious.

Then type 9 is the Peacemaker. Easy going, self-effacing type. Receptive, reassuring, agreeable, and complacent.

Liz Wolfe: I was really split between 6 and 9. And that was really hard for me. Because I certainly can be complacent, and what was the other word?

Diane Sanfilippo: Agreeable? Self-effacing.

Liz Wolfe: All of those, I really thought I was a 9 at first. To say nothing of the fact that I really resisted, even doing this in the first place. But when I did, and I really started to think about it, I basically split in the quiz between a 6 and a 9 and I really thought I was going to be a 9. But actually started talking about this with my therapist. And a lot of therapists really do like the Enneagram, because it helps people understand themselves better. And it’s a framework that is; you know, plugging into a whole can be helpful for people. So it’s not like; oh, my therapist says this about me. It’s; this is a thing. I’m not alone. People do this. And I think that can be helpful.

But as I thought about it more, really kind of the core of who I am is very much a 6. Where being backed up and support is very, very important to me. And that was less of a 9 thing. So it was very interesting to kind of figure that out.

3. The root of the types [30:47]

Diane Sanfilippo: It is. So, one of the common things that happens is; and I think this is in the questions that we have but I’m just going to address it out of the gate. A really common question is; if my test, or any of the tests you show. I like the Enneagram Institute test. It does cost $12. But I think it is a more comprehensive test than some of the others that you’ll get out there. That being said, you don’t have to take a test to figure out your type. I could have read any type 8 description, and been like; I’m obviously an 8. Anybody who knows me could read it and be like; yes, that is you. It’s disgustingly me.

If you come out pretty even with two, or almost even, it’s not about knowing exactly in the moment which is you. It’s about having that direction towards; ok, let’s say two of them tied for you. Read the two of them, and see which sounds and feels like you. I think for some folks; you talked about this a lot over the last couple of years. That self-awareness; it does take time. And actually being able to look at the driving force behind your decisions is not easy for everyone. And it’s certainly; I’m imagining it’s easier for some types than others, just inherently based on how we are wired. So being able to say, actually, yes. I have had trouble making decisions because I want to be backed up and supported. Knowing that about yourself helps you look at the description and say; oh, ok. Yeah. That’s me.

I do think that what I’ve seen of 6s really tend to have the most trouble just landing and saying; yeah, that’s one me.

Liz Wolfe: Hello; yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: Didn’t we talk about this? We talked about how you were like; how can Dorit say she’s not the kind of person that; how do you know what kind of person you are? Doesn’t context matter? {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: Let’s just bring in a little Real Housewives to lighten the mood. Yes, I’ve always been irritated by people who say things like; “I’m the type of person that…” because to me, I feel like a chameleon where, depending on the context of the situation, I might adapt my approach to be a different “type of person.” So I can be aggressive if I have to. I can snap to, and really dominate a situation when I need to. For example, when I found out I had to have a C-section and was basically going to get shipped off to do that. It was me; it was not my providers, it was not my husband, it was not anybody else that snapped to in that moment and took charge. I took charge. And I handled it. And I made everybody else feel better about the situation. Literally, while I was on the operating table.

So I can do that. But I can also be soft, and listen. And what’s interesting to me, is now I see why certain people have such a strong sense of self and are the same no matter what the situation and why I might have some kind of feelings about that in the moment. I get that now, but what’s also interesting to me is I see both the benefit of the way I exist in the world, and also some of the difficulties and road blocks that that causes. Because there are also times when I’m like; well, who am I in this situation? I don’t feel that clearly defined, and I can feel very lost because of that.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. And the ups and downs of every type are something that everyone feels. I mean, I constantly have to meter and monitor myself in a situation where I’m not trying to steam roll somebody so that I don’t.

Liz Wolfe: See I don’t have to do that at all. I never worry about steamrolling anybody; I don’t know how. {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: It’s every day. I think about it every day. Every single day. Or being overly critical. I am overly critical 100% of the time. And that’s not only a downside of the type 8; type 3s are like that as well, to some degree. Sometimes they’re more self-critical.

Diane Sanfilippo: Anyway. Let’s dive into some of the questions. I wanted to give people that bit of background. We’re not enneagram experts. We are enneagram enthusiasts {laughs}. We’re into it. We love it. It’s been really helpful for us. And we know and believe that it will be helpful for so many of you, as well. But we just wanted to open up this conversation a little bit more.

So, one person just kind of made a note from our Instagram. “My hope is that you’ll help people understand that the enneagram is not about declaring the superiority of your type, it’s about doing the work of understanding your extremes and your stressor. Your type comes from a wound, so it’s about getting healthier.”

Yes, absolutely. I absolutely see that. That is the reason, as I mentioned earlier, why sometimes people think; well, I’m fluctuating. I’m not the same type. Well, at that point, the reality is you just have not landed yet. And that’s ok. I’ve read some things that say sometimes it takes people years to get to the point where they’re like; ok, this really is me. And that’s totally ok. Many of you will read the descriptions and just totally land.

Your experience, Liz, when you were taking the test, can we talk about what happened?

Liz Wolfe: Yes. Yes.

Diane Sanfilippo: Like, I took the test, and I was like; how long is this supposed to take? Ok that’s the time to beat. And I’m going to go through it and be like; boom, boom, boom, boom. This is what I think in every situation. And then Liz takes the test…

Liz Wolfe: It’s supposed to take, what, an hour?

Diane Sanfilippo: I don’t remember the exact amount of time.

Liz Wolfe: I don’t remember either.

Diane Sanfilippo: It’s not so much about the time, but what happened when you took the test?

Liz Wolfe: When I took the test, I literally; swear to god. {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: Swear to Regina George?

Liz Wolfe: Swear to Regina George, I had to text Diane every, maybe more frequently than every other question, just to be like; what’s my answer to this one? I don’t know what I would do. It just depends on the context. And Diane would often be like; oh, this is what you would do. Obviously. And the 6 that is myself, it is really hilarious when you think about it. Me, my 6-ness, was like; I need somebody else to read this for me. Read the situation, and tell me what I would do.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: It’s so 6-y.

Diane Sanfilippo: Support my answer that I think is my answer.

Liz Wolfe: Yes.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: I can’t decide until I know what somebody else thinks. Which sounds way worse than it actually is. But it’s more; what have you observed as my quality in a situation like this.

Diane Sanfilippo: It’s very generous.

Liz Wolfe: It’s generous?

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, it’s generous…

Liz Wolfe: Me? Grace?

Diane Sanfilippo: To crowdsource more. I think it is.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah, I can see that.

Diane Sanfilippo: I don’t think it’s a bad thing. It’s funny.

Liz Wolfe: It was funny.

Diane Sanfilippo: It’s funny because it’s true. It was just a funny thing.

Liz Wolfe: It took me like 2 days.

Diane Sanfilippo: But, anyway. I was laughing the whole time. I was like; Liz, how do you not see this? You were like, I don’t know. {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: I literally couldn’t.

Diane Sanfilippo: You were like; it depends.

Liz Wolfe: I don’t know.

Diane Sanfilippo: But then I could see, once we went through that, I could see, knowing you for all these years. I was like; this all makes sense now.

Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.

Diane Sanfilippo: But it also makes sense as to why our two types work so well together. And because you are an Obliger, and a 6. It’s like; Diane is going to run the show, and I will show up, and I’m here, and I have a strong voice, and I’m confident in what I'm talking about. But it works well together.

So one thing that you were saying is, when you were in therapy and knowing that this is a thing. It’s not just a thing I do, it’s a thing everyone with this particular wound does. Right? With my personality type. What I love about it is that it does also help you with relationships and knowing how different types interact. So when we learned our types, that really helped us to kind of illuminate how we interact and also the pros and cons of that. Same thing with myself and Cassy, as an 8 and a 3.

4. Resources for typing [38:49]

Diane Sanfilippo: So here are some questions we got. Again, some of the questions; I did cover this a little bit. What are the best quizzes and resources? If you’re type doesn’t first jump out at you. Enneagram Institute I love. The Wisdom of the Enneagram is a really huge book that you can get. That’s one of the most well-known. There are a bunch of Enneagram Instagram accounts. So, obviously unscientific. Some of them better than others. And we’ll make sure we link to some of them over on the podcast Instagram account.

But one tip I’ve seen from some of these resources is; read information from accounts like that, consistently over time you may feel that you resonate with one of the types more than the other. When there’s a couple of these accounts where they’ll pose a question. Or they’ll make a statement or something like that, and then ask people of that type to comment. So read the comments, and just dive in a see. Does this resonate with me? Or does that sound like me? Because when I read the comments of other 8s, I’m like; yep. That’s exactly how I feel. So it’s a really interesting way to kind of navigate the information, is just kind of peer to peer.

I’m curious if you have any other notes on that, Liz. Or just kind of trying to see if there’s anything else.

Liz Wolfe: No, I’m not that deep yet.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Ok. I’m a pusher.

Liz Wolfe: I have the Wisdom of the Enneagram book.

Diane Sanfilippo: Which one?

Liz Wolfe: Wisdom of the Enneagram, I believe.

Diane Sanfilippo: Mm-hmm.

Liz Wolfe: One thing; I don’t know if this is worth throwing in there or not, but I’m going to do it anyway. I believe the Enneagram is founded in some kind of religious, or spirituality something or other.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yes. I think, at its core. But it’s also not necessarily something that you have to be focused on as part of it.

Liz Wolfe: I have not found it to be an impediment to self-understanding.

Diane Sanfilippo: No. And it is something that has been very popular, and talked about a lot among generally Christian church groups. So if people are not in that realm, absolutely you don’t need to shy away from it or worry that that’s the only focus of it. But I think it has been rooted in that. And again; we are not experts. I did not read for three weeks before we’re talking about this. I really just wanted to bring up the conversation because as we close out this show, I know that so many of you will get so much value by diving into this.

5. The Balanced Bites husband types [41:28]

Diane Sanfilippo: Ok, so more questions that came in were about if you were tied. So I already answered that one. And then this other one was about; what are our husband’s types. You said that. I’m going to read this question here.

She says, “I’m a 6 and the fact that Liz is a 6 makes me like my number 100 times more.”

Liz Wolfe: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: “I’m married to an 8, and I’m thinking my love for the Diane/Liz combo is because of that parallel dynamic in my marriage. I’d love to know what Dr. Scott and Liz’s husband’s numbers are.”

Dr. Scott and Liz’s husband {laughs}.

Liz Wolfe: Dr. Scott and Liz’s husband. Spencer, which I’ve probably said all of 4 times the entire show. I talk about my husband and my daughter, but I don’t say their names. Like I said, I think Spence is either a 6 or a 9. However, I was just thinking about folks that I dated in my past, and I’m guess; I’m pretty sure I dated exclusively 8s. {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing}

Liz Wolfe: Which makes sense. Like you said. Which is also why my marriage has been the catalyst for so much growth. Because it really has forced me to evaluate myself and how I react to things, rather than just kind of getting carried in the current of someone who knows what they want and me I can just say; ok, yeah, we’ll do that. You know?

Diane Sanfilippo: That is; I could see that as a relationship pattern where an 8 is so domineering that a 6 is along for the ride.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah. They were not good relationships. And I think I probably came out of them as a less healthy 6. And then needed to come out and build myself back up.

Diane Sanfilippo: Interesting.

Liz Wolfe: That’s to say nothing about my relationship with you, by the way.

Diane Sanfilippo: No.

Liz Wolfe: No.

Diane Sanfilippo: It’s just different.

Liz Wolfe: It’s a totally different thing.

Diane Sanfilippo: One of my childhood best friend’s from growing up is also a 6, and it plays out so interestingly. Ok, well let me get into this first. So, Scott is a 1. And as I mentioned; 1 is again the Reformer, rational, idealistic, principled, purposeful, self-controlled, perfectionistic. Let’s just highlight that perfectionistic part.

I wouldn’t say my husband is totally a perfectionist. And he will be listening to this episode while he edits it. {laughs} He likes to get things right, but he’s really good at putting things out there. He doesn’t totally stop himself from doing things. And I know that he has said that that’s something he works on really consistently. Like, his Instagram is awesome. He’s amazing at video content. Creating and putting it out there. And that is a big part of him; I think that’s self work. For him to say; it’s not going to be perfect and I’m going to put it out there.

But, how that works with us; there’s a couple of things. One is my level of criticism. I constantly have to meter it, and it does come out now and then. And the other day it came out, and it was totally unnecessary on my part. And I was like; I obviously should not have said that. It was not important. And he was like; that was really not necessary. And was not happy to hear it. It was something really dumb. It was like, how a photo was edited on Instagram. That’s how dumb it was.

So, that being said, the flipside is; and I think this is why you like an 8, as well. You always know where you stand with an 8. There’s no subtext. There is no; if people think; people make assumptions about an 8, I think, that we are mean or, I don’t know, obnoxious. There’s a lot of negative assumptions around a really confident, decisive person, or confrontational person. But, the reality is; and Scott has said this before. He always knows where he stands with me. There’s no eggshells. You are not walking on eggshells around me. If there is tension, I will break it immediately. {laughs} I just won’t live with tension. And I have, in past relationships, definitely had that tension.

I mean, you guys all know what those car rides are like. You have that long car ride with someone, and there’s tension. It’s the worst. Anyway.

Liz Wolfe: Can I give you an analogy about how a 6 breaks tension, and how an 8 breaks tension?

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Yes, please.

Liz Wolfe: Ok. This is how an 8 breaks tension; think of, you have your hair is really, really tangly. And that represents the tension. An 8 will just brush through the freaking tangles with three strokes. Not messing around, getting done with this.

Diane Sanfilippo: I might even cut the tangle because I’m so pissed it’s there.

Liz Wolfe: You might even cut it out. {laughs} And a 6 will slowly work from the bottom, with as little pain as possible, will spend 3 hours getting the hair totally smooth. {laughs} Neither of us like tension; but one of us is probably more efficient than the other.

Diane Sanfilippo: But, I think the collateral damage is sometimes more intense, for me.

Liz Wolfe: With an 8?

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. And I think this is where the Rebel and the 8 can really overlap a lot. Is that I think that our capacity for difficult consequences is high. I’m ok with paying the late fee because I was late with my taxes. Other people would be so anxious and stressed about that. And it’s not about the dollar amount. It’s just the fact that it’s late and that there will be a penalty. Does that make sense? Those types of little things that I’m like; whatever. It’s fine. I will deal with the consequences. If I have to cut my hair out, because I just want this knot out of the hair; fine. I will cut the hair. And I think avoiding that additional pain. It feels less painful to me, if that makes sense.

Liz Wolfe: I can see that.

Diane Sanfilippo: Because my greatest pain is different than yours. Mmm. {laughs} So you guys can read all about with each type what the core trauma or pain or struggle is. And I think that that is a really interesting way to kind of get to the root of it.

Liz Wolfe: You know what; can I change my answer really quick? Maybe it’s a 9 that would brush hair that way. Maybe a 6 would just say passive aggressive things to the hair, and hope it would detangle itself.

Diane Sanfilippo: I think a 6 would definitely lay down and make sure there’s no gravity pulling on the knot.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: Like, I do that with a chain. If I have a knot in a chain, I’m like, hold on, you’ve got to put it down because if there’s gravity pulling on it then it’s definitely going to stay knotted. I know that’s weird.

Liz Wolfe: Oh, good point. Good point.

Diane Sanfilippo: Maybe you would use peanut butter. Isn’t that an old way?

Liz Wolfe: I don’t know. I do use a lot of condition on my daughter’s hair when I’m trying to get the knots out, though. I don’t even bother brushing it, except for once a week we get in the bathtub and I just slop half a thing of conditioner in it and brush it out. Anyway.

Diane Sanfilippo: That is; that sounds about right. You're like; let’s just throw more stuff at the problem.

Liz Wolfe: Let’s just lubricate this as much as possible. {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: Yes. Well, when over the last few years, when you were pregnant and having the baby, you were like; I’m going to get all the things I might need. I’m going to buy all the stuff, and then figure out what I’m going to need. And I’m like; I’ll just deal with that when I need to deal with it.

Liz Wolfe: Very true.

Diane Sanfilippo: Ok, so I guess we’ll have to close the discussion on the husbands. I don’t know what else on that. I do think the dynamic for us is; I’m definitely bossier. But I constantly work to make sure that he is heard. I’m not always perfect at it, but I’m super aware of that. So that awareness is paramount.

6. Overcoming the 6 for entrepreneurialship [49:27]

Diane Sanfilippo: Ok, this next question is for you, Liz. It says, “I’m a 6 as well. I would like to know how Liz became a successful entrepreneur, with some of the setbacks 6s deal with. How did you overcome the worry and the planning for the worst? I so want to be content, but I struggle to get out of my own head, and going directly to the negative or the worst-case scenario.”

Liz Wolfe: Ok, well you know I’m going to say; I don’t feel like I am a successful entrepreneur. I think maybe people think I’m sitting on a throne of success over here, and I wouldn’t necessarily say that is the case. I’ve had some really fortunate circumstances where I was able to; either strike when the iron was hot, or get in early enough to build up something successful over time. So there are a lot of things that I don’t credit my own intrepid nature for. But I also think a strength of a 6 is I think we’re pretty adept at gauging what people need before they know they need it. I don’t know that we always trust our instincts on that, but business-wise, over the last 10 years, I think there have been several moments where I just kind of sensed what people were going to want. In particular with regards to safer skincare.

I started talking about that years ago. And because I started talking about it, and putting it out there, and helping people with it; which I think is something 6s like to do as well. People responded well so I wanted to keep helping people with it. Because I had my name out there doing that work, I was able to several years later have a product that came out with another company. And then become affiliated with other companies that afforded me opportunities to make a substantial income working in that space. And then talking about food and getting into paleo when it was kind of first really taking off in the mainstream.

By no means do I consider myself an early adopter. I’m not Art Devaney or Robb Wolf. But I definitely sensed that this was happening, and jumped on board with it, and wanted to find out everything I possibly could about it, and then started talking about it publicly.

So I think if a 6 trusts their instincts in sensing where the market is going. And then sets out a plan to actually have some accountability and build something. I think it’s definitely doable.

Diane Sanfilippo: Agreed. I think it’s also not a bad thing to partner up with people who you feel confident.

Liz Wolfe: Oh yeah, that too. {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: In their decisions. I mean, basically we started doing this podcast because I called you up and was like; hey. Do you want to do this podcast?

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: And then I dragged you into teaching seminars with me.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah, and I think you even encouraged me to write my first; well it was an eBook, the Skintervention Guide. I think I was working on it, but I remember; you said; Liz. Do this now. So I was like; ok, I will do it. So I did it.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. So I think it’s good to identify those people in your life who are your cheerleaders and your champions. And as a 6, especially, who you can trust to give you really solid feedback and support. You know? Who are going to support your decisions, and not in a way of like; oh they just yes you to death. But I think it is important to have that support and lean on it when it’s in the right direction.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah. This makes me sad.

Diane Sanfilippo: There were a lot of 6s that responded to this. And I’m like; I think our listeners are 80% 6s.

Liz Wolfe: {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: Which is interesting, because are 6s just naturally seeing advice?

Liz Wolfe: Yes. They’re seeking support and backup in everything.

Diane Sanfilippo: OK.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah. 8s don’t need a podcast to tell them to do what they’re going to do anyway.

Diane Sanfilippo: Pretty much not. But that’s ok. We could get into more of our problem with 8s, if we would like to.

Liz Wolfe: {laughing} It’s not a problem.

7. Liz’s take on being a 6 [53:46]

Diane Sanfilippo: I did touch on a few of them. Ok, so this one is a question. “I’m a 6. I hated finding that out. I heard most 6s hate their number. I would love to hear Liz’s take on being a 6.”

So you’ve kind of been getting into it already with the episode. But when you were reading the description; how was that landing and how do you feel about it now?

Liz Wolfe: I; this makes me really sad. “I hated finding that out.” Why? I think the enneagram, from the beginning, it says there is no better or worse type. Every single type has healthy manifestations and unhealthy manifestations. And all this stuff does is help you identify maybe why you do certain things. And I don’t know; help you move forward with your life.

I didn’t hate finding out I was a 6. I thought it was very interesting. Because it actually helped me; there are certain things that are really, really hard for me. Especially around parenthood, and in some parts of parenthood, making decisions that I know are not socially affirmed. Doing things that I don’t feel like I have a whole lot of support in. And that is the hardest thing in the entire world for me. And I could see myself; if I had not figured out that I was a 6, and if I didn’t understand this and understand myself a little bit better, I could see myself being completely consumed by the anxiety that began manifesting within 6 to 12 months of motherhood. Where I started to feel so profoundly insecure about some of the decisions that I deep down felt were best, but that were not popular or socially affirmed or affirmed in the media. And it was crushing. It was absolutely crushing me.

But when I realized that some of these things are hard for me not because I’m wrong, but because I’m seeking support, or affirmation, to feel better about them. I don’t want to be alone in a decision that I’m making. I want people to tell me; hey, yeah. Literally this is the phrase I want people to say to me, that I envision in my head. “I would have done the same thing.” That is so, so powerful, I think, probably to a 6. A phrase like that. That I started realizing, and being able to kind of pull myself out of this profound anxiety when I could say; look. Just because I don’t feel like I’m backed up on this doesn’t mean I’m wrong. And it’s really helped me trust myself a little bit better. It’s a struggle, but it’s been amazing.

So, I mean, I’m happy being a 6. I don’t know. I’m sure self-hating 6s; that’s some form of being an unhealthy 6. {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: It is. It is really interesting how different people respond to learning their type. I just think it’s so helpful when you can read; ok, this is where it’s coming from. You know what I mean?

Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.

8. Benefits of knowing someone’s type [56:47]

Diane Sanfilippo: I don’t know. Ok. So, do you want to read the next?

Liz Wolfe: Yeah, let me do this one.

Diane Sanfilippo: It’s not really a question. But, oh yeah, it is a question.

Liz Wolfe: It’s a question. “I’m an 8, wing 7, and love learning about it. I’d love to hear how you ladies think knowing people’s types help you in your business, as well as what resources you use, or point people to, who are new to the enneagram.”

Diane Sanfilippo: OK, well we talked about the resources.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: In business, I find that communication styles; I find that just having my finger on the pulse of someone’s personality and being able to meter how I’m going to approach a situation based on their type is really helpful.

So I know that if I’m talking to an 8; here’s a good example. A couple of my closest friends and some people who I do business with are 8s; women. And when I’m talking to them, I not only know that I can just say the thing. I’m just going to say it. Whatever it is, I’m just going to say it. I’m going to be direct. And I know that when they say something back to me; it’s the same. It’s direct, and it’s also not ever a personal attack. It’s just very, very matter of fact.

Which is interesting, because when I interact with people on Instagram; because they’re not always used to that type of interaction, when I answer a question very matter of factly without niceties, people think I’m being rude. And I’m like; that is not me being rude. That is me just not flowering and adding the niceties before and after and sandwiching my factual response.

It’s not a lack of emotional intelligence. It’s not a lack of ability to read the emotion in the situation. Often I know exactly what the emotion is in the situation, and I know exactly how quickly someone is just trying to make a bid for my time and attention. And I’m going to give them exactly the response that I’m going to give them. That’s just how it is. And I’m not worried about them getting upset. They might get upset. I’m aware that’s going to happen sometimes.

So for me, if I think about team Balanced Bites for example, or some of the women on my Beautycounter team who; you know, we sometimes have to have conversations where we’re supporting people in their business or helping them through a problem, etc. I try and consider all of that. And I also try and make sure that they understand me and my type. And that when I do give feedback, or I do give direction, helping them to prepare with the goggles on of; this is not personal. And if it’s personal you’ll know, because I’ll have that conversation as well, if I need to. I will have a separate conversation that’s personal versus business. I will separate it.

So I don’t know. I find that really helpful in business. I think; I don’t know. I also think it’s helpful in directing who to be partnered up with. Like we talked about earlier. And knowing that Cassy Joy is a 3; I’m like, great. I think this is going to go great. She describes herself as highly coachable, as well. And because we all know how bossy I am; {laughs} I just, we collaborate really well the same way you and I collaborate really well. I try to make sure that I’m pausing and quiet as much as I can be. Because I value other people’s opinions when I’m choosing to partner with them. If that makes sense. As much as I might not crowdsource; I value your opinion. I value Cassy’s opinion. I value the opinion of those I’m choosing to keep close to me. So I think all of that is really helpful in business.

Liz Wolfe: Ok. “Have a lot of people in your life taken the time to type themselves? Because I find the process is more than just taking a quiz. Or do you find yourself typing others based on your observations?” and this person is a 5 wing 6.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} I’m giggling because someone who says; “It took more than just taking a quiz.” That is a 5 or a 6 just; you're waving the flag. I’m definitely a 5 or a 6 if I either didn’t believe the results or I had a hard time landing on one. Or if I read a million things before I decided those are; I think with anything else, they always tell you not to type your friends. And then there are people who are like; actually ask your friends. Because they’re the ones that know how you’ve responded to things over time. And you can help. They can hold the mirror up and help you see yourself better.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: So, I mean a lot of people who are close to me; my friend Jenny Casteneda from Paleo Foodie Kitchen, or Cook and Savor now, she’s also a type 3. {laughs} So the clouds sort of move away and I discover that those closest to me tend to be 3 or four different types. They’re 1s, they’re 3s, and they’re 6s. The people closest to me; those are the types that end up in that realm. That doesn’t mean there are 2s, and 4s, and 5s, and 9s and all of that. But that’s kind of who ends up closest. And I think there are reasons for that. We kind of gravitate towards types that make us feel comfortable for a variety of reasons.

So yeah, a handful of people around me have taken the test, definitely. I don’t know if my parents have. But I could probably get them to. A lot of my friends are in this space, you know, so they’re into it and they’ve taken it.

Liz Wolfe: It would be interesting. I would love if my closest girlfriends would take the Enneagram. But I, maybe this is a 6 thing, but I would not presume to type anybody.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: I would let somebody tell me their type, and I would be excited about it. But unless it was an 8; I think I could probably type an 8. {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: The whole world can type an 8. Because when an 8 walks into the room, you feel it. And I think that’s a pretty; yeah. Like I get the sense Robb Wolf is an 8. I just do.

Liz Wolfe: That would be interesting, if he would take the test.

Diane Sanfilippo: I think he’s an 8. He could also be a 5. But those are the feelings I get about that.

9. Pitfalls, favorites, and Mean Girls [1:03:42]

Liz Wolfe: We have the most important question, I think, right here. “What pitfalls of your number have you noticed in yourselves, and how are you working on it? What’s your favorite thing about your number? And do you listen to enneagram podcasts or follow IG accounts? If so, which ones?”

Diane Sanfilippo: I have listened to a few Enneagram podcasts. I think that was the beginning for me of some of the digging in that I did a while ago. I guess I talked about this a bit throughout the show. Pitfalls; I think the biggest pitfall for me, as a type 8, which I think will be different for everyone is probably; we come off as so hard and so, I don’t know, maybe self assurance or just confident. We come off as generally really confident people; but I think that gets confused with, again, not having a softness or empathy.

I sometimes joke about not being empathetic, but the reality is that I’m so overly empathetic when I want to be that I avoid it. So I think that is something that a lot of people might not understand, that I will distance myself from other people’s pain because I will feel it so deeply if I go there. So that’s an interesting thing.

And I do work on trying to not have that be so black and white, so that I can be there for people a little bit more. But sometimes I don’t know; I don’t have to be everything to everyone. So I will recognize my limits. So that’s definitely a pitfall. And as I said, being overly critical and kind of steamrolling a situation. And working on it always means; I think for me, making sure that I have people in my life who I truly do love and respect. And who’s opinions I love and respect. Or who’s opinions I respect, at least. That allows me to be a better version of myself, because I can sit back and let them share what they think. And we have a good conversation and we kind of make decisions together. That’s kind of what I’m thinking in terms of that interaction.

Favorite thing is, I think, the self assurance. I do think there’s a lot of self assurance in a lot of 8s. I think it’s comforting to others to have someone who is a natural leader around them. Maybe it’s not comforting to everyone, but what I’ve noticed with the people that I’m close to is they enjoy being able to rely on me to make hard decisions. And I’m ok with that.

So Instagram accounts; I’ll note a couple right now that are popping up as I open my thing. Just My Enneatype is actually one of my favorites, because visually it’s really stunning. And I think that’s important. So I’m going to note that one. They do a really good job.

Enneagram and coffee is one. And that one is not super jokey and memey. Social enneagram is a really good one, as well. Much like the first one I mentioned; visually really great. But there definitely are; here’s one called Rude Ass Enneagram. That one is really funny. That’s like memes and TV shows and things like that, and they pull the enneagram in. So I follow a whole bunch of them. But we’ll link to them on an upcoming post.

Liz Wolfe: Alright. Most important question of all. Have you seen the Mean Girl Enneagram?

Diane Sanfilippo: I have not!

Liz Wolfe: I haven’t either! This is the first I’ve heard of it.

Diane Sanfilippo: Now I have to go look for it. Wow, Mean Girls typology central. Is that what this is? I don’t know.

Liz Wolfe: Send it to us, Mallory J Williams. Send it to us.

Diane Sanfilippo: Oh, interesting. Ok. I’m guessing people have tried to type everyone. Maybe they do like a Myers-Briggs type on them and all of that.

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10. Driven Podcast update [1:08:26]

Diane Sanfilippo: Alright folks, a quick update on Driven, or Driven Podcast. It’s coming soon. We’re hoping to launch it mid-May when this show ends. Not 100% positive if that will happen exactly around May 16th. We’re going to be launching those shows on Thursdays, so that y’all; {laughs} I’m just grabbing that from Cassy Joy. So that y’all have consistent downloads. But our 400th episode will air on May 16th of the Balanced Bites podcast. And if we can launch it then, we will. If not, it will be May 23rd. But as many of you know, Cassy Joy is on the road and getting things nailed down is a little bit tricky right now.

But we are going to be converting the Balanced Bites podcast Instagram account to Driven Podcast. So you don’t have to go follow Driven Podcast, it will just convert. So just stay where you are. And we are going to start making calls for questions very, very soon. Questions, feedback. We want to hear from you, because it’s going to be a very interactive show. So stay tuned, and keep your eyes and ears open for driven.

Liz Wolfe: That’s it for this week. You can find me, Liz, at and you can find Diane at Make sure to join our email lists for free goodies and updates that you don’t find anywhere else on our website or on the podcast. We will see you next week for our final episode.

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