All About Digestion - Gut Microbiome, Antacids, Probiotics, Constipation & SIBO - Diane Sanfilippo, Liz Wolfe | Balanced Bites

Podcast Episode #266: All About Digestion – Gut Microbiome, Antacids, Probiotics, Constipation & SIBO

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TopicsAll About Digestion - Gut Microbiome, Antacids, Probiotics, Constipation & SIBO - Diane Sanfilippo, Liz Wolfe | Balanced Bites

1. News and updates from Diane & Liz [4:39]
2. Shout out: Lexi’s Clean Kitchen and her new book [18:16]
3. About the microbiome [20:22]
4. Antacids and natural relief for stomach acid [29:37]
5. Best time to take a probiotic [37:19]
6. Best type and form of probiotic [38:50]
7. Constipation, bloating, and pressure [47:02]
8. SIBO questions and testing [51:53]


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All About Digestion - Gut Microbiome, Antacids, Probiotics, Constipation & SIBO - Diane Sanfilippo, Liz Wolfe | Balanced Bites All About Digestion - Gut Microbiome, Antacids, Probiotics, Constipation & SIBO - Diane Sanfilippo, Liz Wolfe | Balanced Bites All About Digestion - Gut Microbiome, Antacids, Probiotics, Constipation & SIBO - Diane Sanfilippo, Liz Wolfe | Balanced Bites

You’re listening to the Balanced Bites podcast episode 266.

Diane Sanfilippo: Welcome to the Balanced Bites podcast. I’m Diane; a certified nutrition consultant, and the New York Times bestselling author of Practical Paleo and The 21-Day Sugar Detox. I live in San Francisco with my husband and fur kids. I love oven fries, watching our dog walk backwards on shiny floors, and wearing leggings as pants.

Liz Wolfe: I’m Liz; a nutritional therapy practitioner, and author of the Wall Street Journal best-seller Eat the Yolks; The Purely Primal Skincare Guide; and the online program Baby Making and Beyond. I live on a farm in the mystical land of the Midwest, outside of Kansas City, and I loved not eating sushi in geographically land locked regions.

We are the co-creators of the Balanced Bites Master Class, and we’ve been bringing you this award winning podcast for 5 years and counting. We’re here to share our take on modern paleo living, answer your questions, and chat with leading health and wellness experts. Enjoy this week’s episode, and submit your questions at Remember our disclaimer: The materials and content within this podcast are intended as general information only, and are not to be considered a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.

Before we get started, let’s hear from one of our sponsors.

Diane Sanfilippo: Pete’s Paleo has opened a new location on the East Coast. Since they’re still operating out of San Diego, as well, this means local produce and meat coming from both coasts. And drastically reduced shipping prices. Check out their new and improved website, to take advantage of low shipping rates; and be sure to use coupon code 1FREEBACON. That’s the number 1, free bacon, and receive a free half pound of bacon with the purchase of a meal plan. Go to

Liz Wolfe: Hey everyone, it’s me Liz, stumbling through the intro today because I was giggling at your…

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: The three things you love. I need to start reading those before {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: No it’s better if you don’t.

Liz Wolfe: “Watching our dog walk backwards on shiny floors.”

Diane Sanfilippo: She might start to do it while we’re recording, and if so, you’ll hear what we call her tappy toes, where it’s just like the click, click, clickety clack of her little toenails backwards.

Liz Wolfe: Aww.

Diane Sanfilippo: She’s standing here waiting to go greet Scott, but she’s just kind of waiting there. She doesn’t like the shiny floors.

Liz Wolfe: Ok, moving on. What about leggings is not pants?

Diane Sanfilippo: Ok, so I would say maybe 5 years ago I was definitely in the camp of leggings are not pants. If you’re going to do leggings, you’ve got to have a shirt that’s going to cover…

Liz Wolfe: Oooohhh. Right.

Diane Sanfilippo: The crotchal region. {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: The buttal and crotchal region.

Diane Sanfilippo: Exactly. And appropriately kind of balance that out. And I don’t know what happened. I hit a point where I was like, IDGAF. {laughs} The abbreviation for sensitive ears. I just don’t care. I’m just going to wear whatever it is and if it’s workout pants and my shirt isn’t covering all the parts; I don’t know if it’s aging that does this, where I just do not care what people think. If there’s a dimple somewhere that could be covered by a longer shirt. Just don’t care.

Liz Wolfe: Ok.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing}

Liz Wolfe: Good. Good.

Diane Sanfilippo: Are you wearing leggings as pants, are you not wearing leggings as pants. What’s happening?

Liz Wolfe: You know, I wear the LuLuLemon studio pants every single day.

Diane Sanfilippo: I can attest to that.

Liz Wolfe: I do. I have two pairs that are not lined and two pairs that are lined for when it gets chilly outside. They’re so nice and long and just so nice. It was funny, my dear, dear friend Amy the other day was like; I wore a pair of jeans to her house because we had a little Beautycounter social, and I wore jeans, because I thought; you know, I’ll get dressed up. {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: She’s like, who are you? What have you done with my friend?

Liz Wolfe: She goes, I don’t think I’ve ever seen you wear jeans. I was like; I wear jeans all the time! She’s like, no you don’t. I was like, she’s right, I don’t. I wear LuLuLemon studio pants and black nursing tank tops. Like, how long until my nursing tank thing expires? I don’t really need to be able to pop a boob out at a moment’s notice anymore, but I just love that there’s a soft bra built right in and there’s no underwire.

Diane Sanfilippo: There are other tank tops that have those things built in; they just also don’t have detachable straps.

Liz Wolfe: {sigh} Life is hard.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

1. News and updates from Diane & Liz [4:39]

Liz Wolfe: So what’s going on with you; what are your updates?

Diane Sanfilippo: So updates. This week, gosh I keep getting turned around with the calendar and what week we’re in because we’re being so good about recording on a healthy advanced schedule. But I believe that at the time this show airs, there may be a day or two left for beta enrollment in the Master Class. That is if the seats are not all gone ahead of when we scheduled the beta enrollment to end. So that may happen; not entirely sure. If you’re a practitioner, then you are eligible to be a beta enrollee.

But if you are not a practitioner; and when I say practitioner, I mean anyone from a naturopathic doctor, chiropractor, RD, licensed acupuncturist, all the way to nutrition consultants, NTPs, NTC, and even Crossfit coaches or personal trainers. Anyone who is working with people and coaching people actively in some way, you are considered a practitioner to us, because this is content and information that you can definitely work with and disseminate to folks that you’re coaching.

So, if you are what we would consider a student; meaning you are not yet a practitioner in any way, then the beta enrollment wasn’t open to you anyway, so have no fear. Our January 2017 semester of the Master Class, enrollment for that kicks off really soon. You guys will definitely hear about it, and that will be open for students and practitioners coming in January 2017. But the enrollment I think is going to start right after Thanksgiving for that, so we’re going to let you guys enroll for about a few weeks or a month, and then the semester will kick off in January once everybody is kind of passed the holiday season.

So really excited; I’ve been doing some final edits on some of the worksheets and things like that, just really fine tuning. And this class is; it’s {laughs} I know we’ve taught the content for a long time, but it’s really good. I’m really excited about it; I think folks are going to learn so much. Yeah, anyway. Not too much more on it until we actually get the full enrollment open, because the beta is such a small group of folks who are going to be able to do that. But I don’t want to tease you guys too much. But we are going to talk about some information today that we obviously get into more in the class.

But, there is that. Other updates; Facebook live every Thursday right now you guys. I’m doing Facebook live videos around 5 p.m. Pacific, 8 p.m. Eastern. What we’re doing now is also posting on the blog with some follow-up on the topics I’m going to talk about in the live videos, which are also some topics that we’ll have talked about in the podcast. So I’m trying to keep things a little bit more streamlined for you guys, because I know just the way the internet and content works, there’s just so much that we’re all creating all the time, so I’m trying to pick one topic for us to focus on for the week. So one of the recent ones was sleep; one of the questions that came through on the podcast, I believe it was one or two episodes ago, was about blacking out your room and just light when you’re sleeping, so I kind of spurred off of that to talk about healthy sleep tips on Facebook live, and now we’ve got a blog post that will be coming out. I guess when this episode airs it will already be out.

So we’ll have the one topic, and then we’ll have kind of touch points for you guys to refer back to so it’s not just; oh I missed it here, and I don’t have time to watch the video again, or whatever, there will be a blog post for you. Coming back to the blog, you guys! There will be blog posts. I feel like I haven’t blogged in 3 years.

Liz Wolfe: I wonder if blogs are sometimes even relevant anymore. It’s like, we should just put it all on social media.

Diane Sanfilippo: You know, I thought that myself; and so for folks who are entrepreneurs, because we have lots of coaches and entrepreneurs who listen to the show, I was thinking that for a while and I definitely was kind of over it with blogging because folks weren’t really there. Folks were really on social. But I think with the decline of social reach, and with just the barrage of content that we all have going out all the time, I do think the blog is sort of the hub and the place to come back to.

You know, when I look at; when I have a question for somebody, and I say, “Hey, have you ever shown us how you do XYZ?” I asked somebody; I asked Courtney Kerr; I asked her; “do you have information on how you put your lashes on?” I mean, this is the kind of stuff that I was asking. And she was like, “Yeah, I have a YouTube video.” And I’m like, great. I’ll just go search her YouTube. End of conversation. If she points me somewhere, the information exists and it’s there. So she had it as a video; but if she had said it’s on my blog, then I would have gone to her blog to search it and find it, which I’m realizing it really is still the best way for us to point people back. Obviously we have our books and a lot of times we’re going to say it’s in the book; it’s in this chapter, this section. But if it’s not in there, I still think the best place to go back to is the blog.

And sometimes I tell people; check out the blog or my website; podcast archives by topic. We talked about sleep, for example, but I think having a post on whatever it is you were talking about recently to just kind of catch everything and be the place where all the links are, the place where you’re latest tips on whatever. I think that’s the easiest for those of you who are looking for the information. I think it’s easiest for you to find. That’s just my take; you guys can definitely let us know; comment on the blog post for this episode and let me know what you think about that. I just feel like it’s also less hectic and frenetic for me to think; ok, I put up this post about sleep now; instead of trying to go back to the Facebook live video feed or go back to a post on Instagram, if we get used to actually commenting on the blog post with questions, I won’t lose those. Even if I don’t answer them that day, they’re not lost. They’re not kind of in a time warp.

You know, Instagram comments; if you comment on something I posted weeks ago, I might see it, I might not. But if you comment on the blog, it never gets lost because there’s a really easy way for me to access all of the blog comments. Anyway, that’s my take on it. As somebody who is just trying to be less stressed by creating content and sharing it with people and being able to point people to the resources; I think it’s still useful and I think it’s almost coming back, if that makes sense.

Liz Wolfe: Can we go back to the part where you talk about speaking to Courtney Kerr?

Diane Sanfilippo: It was a Snapchat. Her Snapchat is always open. She likes to hear from people, so I just sent her a snap. I was like; “Hey, do you have; have you done a tutorial on this?” “Yes I have.” “Ok.” I mean I probably could have searched for it first, but for her to just say, “Yeah, it’s on my YouTube.” Great. And I went and checked her YouTube. I think she’s really fun. {laughs} I like her.

So anyway, in less businessy news, I had my eyes micro; my eyes. My eyebrows {laughs} microblated a couple of days ago, and that was really interesting. I thought our listeners might be interested to hear that. If they follow me on Snapchat, they’ve already seen me posting about it. So that’s my only other update. That has nothing to do with anything else. {laughs} Anything relevant. So there’s that. {laughs} What’s up with you?

Liz Wolfe: Well.

Diane Sanfilippo: Questions, comments, concerns about my eyebrows?

Liz Wolfe: Yeah I was actually a little bit concerned when you told me how they do it. I thought it was this little wispy massage; not massage. {laughs} Why did I just say massage? All I can think about is getting a freaking massage right now. I have one scheduled in two days, and I feel like it’s the first one I’ve had since I had a baby. No, I had one other massage, but it was with a guy with really long fingernails, and it just was not relaxing.

Diane Sanfilippo: Ugh! That is the worst.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah, and he wanted to talk to me the whole time. Nuh-huh. I just want; I would be all about applying the science of robotics to massage therapy.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah!

Liz Wolfe: Because all I need is a set of arms. They don’t need to be attached to; no, that’s not true. I don’t know. Now I’m offending massage therapists. I don’t mean it. Maybe just ask the person if they would like to talk or not. {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: And if they say politely, “Oh, whatever.” Or “It doesn’t matter.” That means no.

Liz Wolfe: Yes, that means no.

Diane Sanfilippo: They just don’t want to say no.

Liz Wolfe: Maybe they know something I don’t. Like, maybe I feel like I need real focused silence to relax, but maybe massage therapists know that in order to actually relax you have to kind of be taken out of yourself for a second.

Diane Sanfilippo: Or if you fall asleep, you may not get the same benefit.

Liz Wolfe: Interesting.

Diane Sanfilippo: I don’t know.

Liz Wolfe: Well. Really turned me around here. I just wanted to thank everybody for all of the awesome feedback that I got and the comments from episode 264, which was when I just wanted to hear from people some really specific anecdotes about using childcare and going back to work in a really focused way; not just trying to kind of fit work in wherever I could fit it in, and how to do that. I still haven’t figured out exactly what we’re going to do; and if anything is going to change, but it really, really did help to hear from people. So I’m really; I used to hesitate to ask people to give advice and everything in the podcast, but it seems to be working well. People just pop by the Instagram post and leave their thoughts; or if they’re very; what’s the word when you’re kind of; you know, when you go out.

See. This is the brain that doesn’t work anymore. When you go out and you find the thing that you are looking for that a lot of people wouldn’t be perceptive enough to go find and look for it? What is the word?

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} I don’t know.

Liz Wolfe: It’s not expedient; it’s like, ugh. Ugh. Plucky? It’s not plucky. Five English majors that listen to this show are screaming into their devices right now because they know the word I’m thinking of. But anyway, people go and find a way to contact me on my blog sidebar. I don’t make my email address public, but I do have a little contact form on my sidebar where people can email me. Intrepid. Intrepid! That’s the word I’m looking for.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing}

Liz Wolfe: I think. That’s all I got.

Diane Sanfilippo: Awesome. I was reading the comments and was really psyched about seeing them for you, so I’m really glad that our listeners; I feel like after the stir up of several weeks ago, things have been in a really good place with our listeners just kind of rallying to support you, which is cool.

Liz Wolfe: One of the comments that really stood out to me; and maybe this will be poignant for other moms too; one of the women said, while she was listening, she just kept thinking, “You matter. Liz, you matter.” And it didn’t occur to me; I felt that I was just being the best mom I could be by only worrying about the kid and how everything revolves or functions around her. But yeah, maybe I have been just kind of communicating to myself unintentionally that I really just don’t matter. Maybe I haven’t felt like I matter. And that once you become a mom, you’re not supposed to matter anymore. I really feel like that’s maybe unconsciously what I’ve been operating from.

What’s really funny is I just got a text message from my friend, Katrina, who listens to the podcast when she can, and she said; “I have so many things to say about this working mom discussion. Next coffee shop date, we need an agenda!”

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: I love her.

Diane Sanfilippo: That is so funny.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah. This is pretty awesome. So thank you guys for all of that, it’s been really great.

Diane Sanfilippo: I bet that there’s some sort of tendency towards that that’s obviously just everyone; every woman who becomes a mother that that happens somewhat, but I am curious if our listeners, if there are folks, women who, before becoming a mother, perhaps were more that way than others and they find it’s more of a struggle.

Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.

Diane Sanfilippo: Because I think just by nature, you and I are really different. I’m very self-protective by nature, and I think you’re more selfless by nature, and I think it’s just, you know, we have different childhood experiences and different things that we’ve had to endure and either go through or not. I think we all just have our own coping mechanisms for different things, and I have no idea what my experience would be like, and I’m sure there would be more of me that would be leaning towards that; like, I’m not as important. But I think that my nature is one that I tend to put myself first all the time. {laughs}

So I just wonder if moms out there who are listening can say, “Yeah, I’m the kind of person who maybe wasn’t putting myself first before so it became a little bit tougher once I had a kid.”

Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.

Diane Sanfilippo: Just to feel like, you know, you’re not alone in that because it does seem like because you’re so generous of yourself, just by nature that to then add on top of that, like you’re being generous to your first born.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs} Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: It seems pretty logical, but I’m glad that it’s coming to a place now where you’re; you know, rethinking how you want to address it.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah, for sure. Thank you for the many compliments in your last several sentences friend.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} You’re welcome.

2. Shout out: Lexi’s Clean Kitchen and her new book [18:16]

Liz Wolfe: Alright, do we have a shout out today?

Diane Sanfilippo: We do! We’re going to shout out to Lexi of Lexi’s Clean Kitchen. You can find her all over the interwebs, I believe, at Lexi’s Clean Kitchen; for sure her blog and her Instagram. I know she’s on Snapchat as well. We just got an advanced copy of her book; it is gorgeous. I actually saw it before it was printed, so I did get a sneak peak. But it’s got over 150 recipes, full color photos for every recipe; of course. Lots of allergy and special diet labels.

And her approach, because it’s clean kitchen, it’s not just 100% paleo. So for folks out there who are kind of dabbling back with some of the other maybe gluten free grains; I believe there is some rice in there, some dairy. And I’m sure there are notes for thing that are optional. But that’s kind of the; you know, it’s a little bit more of that middle ground, and stuff that I talk about now about adding things back. I know, Liz, you and I have talked about this for a couple of years now; just the whole not uber-strict approach. So her book is really great for that, and she’s just a really awesome girl. So check it out. You can learn a lot from her. She gives you lots of tips and tricks all over the site. Her website is

Liz Wolfe: Today’s podcast is sponsored by Vital Choice Seafood and Organics, where a healthy diet is a vital choice. Purveyors of wild fish, shellfish, grass-fed beef and bison; Vital Choice offers premium quality, sustainably sourced foods that are wildly delicious and delivered to your door. With minimal prep from freezer to table, it’s easy to get delicious protein like wild Alaskan salmon, my favorite; and Wagyu beef into your paleo menu rotation. Vital Choice also has a wide array of ready to eat canned seafood along with satisfying snacks like organic dark chocolate, super antioxidant trail mix, and bison jerky. As the days get shorter and the grilling season cools down, is your source for premium seafood and organics.

3. About the microbiome [20:22]

Liz Wolfe: Alrighty. So today’s topic; we’re going to talk digestion.

Diane Sanfilippo: Mm-hmm.

Liz Wolfe: So much fun; top to tail. So we’re continuing on from last week. We’ve been getting a lot of questions about digestion, so we’re going to answer a bunch of them today, and of course, hopefully it’s ok to put in a little plug here, Diane, but we talk about a lot of this stuff in the Master Class, so there you go.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, we’ve got a whole module that’s how your digestion should work, and what to do if it’s not. You know, this was; it’s just so funny to me to think back to when you and I used to teach this stuff on the road, you know, before we sat down and recorded it into the Master Class. This was something that we kind of ping-ponged back and forth a lot on that you and I would both teach parts of this. Yeah, really fun. So, I guess we can just kind of dig into some of the questions here.

Liz Wolfe: Okie dokie. Ok, so this one is very general. But, considering this is something that we like to talk about amongst ourselves, we actually do have a few interesting things to throw out there that maybe this person could research a little bit further.

The question, or comment, was “Can you talk about the microbiome? This fascinates me. I don’t have a specific question, but any information would be appreciated.” So let’s see if we can guide this search a little bit.

Diane Sanfilippo: Do you want to throw in some notes here, Liz?

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: I just had just a couple of things that I think I’ll mention after you.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah, so I’m going to be pretty general because I’m not really sure exactly what this person might be looking for, but some of the most interesting things that really have stuck with me in the last couple of years of living in the digestive world {laughs} and thinking about these things a lot are; number one, most yogurts, most of the things that we think are really great for probiotics are not. Activia, for example, I would not for a second trust the probiotic content in Activia. Totally reminds me of like Kristen Wiig as Jamie Lee Curtis skits on Saturday Night Live {laughs}. Do you know what I’m talking about?

Diane Sanfilippo: This is really funny that you’re saying this, because; so, I mean should we just go back and give kind of a general; I don’t know what she wants to know about, she doesn’t say “What is the gut microbiome.”

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: Or, you know ,talking about that, but just kind of talking about anything we want to throw out there. But just as a general overarching principle, it’s the entire encompassing balance of bacteria in our gut. So that’s kind of the general on gut microbiome, so yeah you’ve got little notes.

Interesting that you say that, because I’ve been eating this goat milk yogurt for; probably a couple of months very consistently, and my digestion does seem to be pretty different. So perhaps the highly processed forms that are coming from Big Food may be a little bit different than some of the others; don’t know.

Liz Wolfe: Maybe there are stabilizing ingredients used in the production of the probiotics. I feel like a lot of people don’t understand; this is the same in skincare as it is in food products. Excipients and culture mediums and all kinds of different manufacturing stuff is left behind; this is the same, and with vaccines. You have different ingredients that are used in the manufacture of the ingredients that are in these things, and at times trace amounts are left behind. Just because it’s a trace amount, which is very small amount, we don’t necessarily know how much that feels like to the body. So a trace amount could cause a huge reaction for somebody; I’ve had that problem with skin care. There are certain preservatives used in the generation of culture mediums, and trace amounts are left in certain products that are not listed on the label. So it could be that.

I think the same goes for cheese that is cultured with enzymes instead of animal rennet. People will have issue with cheese that are cultured in enzymes versus rennet, and I might be using the wrong word, “cultured”, I don’t know. But it could be that.

Diane Sanfilippo: Like vegetable fermentation versus animal rennet.

Liz Wolfe: I think so.

Diane Sanfilippo: I’ve seen that on some cheeses where I think perhaps; it doesn’t really make sense to me, but I don’t know why somebody would opt for something that’s made that way versus with an animal rennet. Just because; I think there are vegetable rennet and animal.

Liz Wolfe: I don’t know.

Diane Sanfilippo: And like, if you’re eating the animal product, I don’t know that it matters, but anyway.

Liz Wolfe: I think rennet is from, like, there is synthetic rennet, and regular rennet I think is, what, from intestines? Animal intestines? No idea. Anyway.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, from. Yes.

Liz Wolfe: So good call on kind of laying out a bridge of basic knowledge on this, what we’re actually even talking about. But I guess a lot of; in the holistic health community, I think a lot of times we talk about, you know, you need to take your probiotic so you can have good gut bacteria. You need to eat probiotic foods so you can colonize good bacteria in your gut. Because a lot of the research coming out right now is exploring the connection of a healthy gut microbiome; or the opposite, an unhealthy gut microbiome and its impact on health and disease, and all the way down to some really specific stuff. Really specific bodily functions; so it’s not just about poop. It’s about eczema and psoriasis and brain function and all of those things. So it’s a pretty big deal.

I actually get a little freaked out by the way some of this talk is going in the scientific community about how basically we are the bacteria in our bodies; they are basically telling us what to do and what not to do. It’s a little scary.

But one of the reasons we talk about gut bacteria needing to be healthy is because it really does play a big role in the nutritional status of your body. So gut bacteria actually generate nutrients for resorption via the bowel wall; so B vitamins, vitamin K, short chain fatty acids; we basically are our bacteria.

One of the really interesting things about the microbiome is how it’s fed by prebiotics. I feel like a lot of our talk surrounds probiotics; which are basically the end goal, is to have functioning, healthy bacteria in your gut. So we take probiotics to I guess add to that colony and hope that the good bacteria will consistently overwhelm the bad. But obviously that’s not always the case, but we talk about them for that reason.

But what’s really important is not just that we take in good bacteria, but that we feed the good bacteria with prebiotics so it continues to grow. Breast milk is the big area of study that I’m just really into right now. Google human milk oligosaccharide; Google article from, gosh I can’t remember if it was the Times or the New Yorker, but it was called, I think, Breastfeeding Your Microbiome. You can look into that.

Something that’s really interesting is that there are organisms that actually feed on our intestinal mucosa. And I’m not sure how those fit into the broader picture of the microbiome, but it does certainly impact the picture that we have of gut health.

Let’s see, what else. Folks that suffer from SIBO, small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, often have low thyroid, which leads to the question how much of an impact does a healthy metabolic rate drive healthy gut bacteria? So which comes first; do you need a healthy metabolism in order to maintain a good healthy gut, or a gut that’s most friendly to good bacteria; or, do you need really good constituent good bacteria in order to drive your healthy metabolism. But I think thyroid support is always really, really important for folks with things like SIBO or digestive issues or what have you.

That’s pretty much what I have to say about that. What do you have to add to this, Diane.

Diane Sanfilippo: Just one quick note that, if folks want to hear a little bit more, there is a conversation that Chris Kresser had with Dr. Justin Sonnenburg. It’s a podcast episode he did, “Is a disrupted gut microbiome at the root of modern disease” was the title of that episode. So if folks want to hear more in depth nerdy stuff, that might be a good resource.

Liz Wolfe: Very good.

Diane Sanfilippo: That it is.

Liz Wolfe: Hopefully we provided some bullet points that will be {laughs} acceptable enough to lead to further study. Because that was a really big question.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.

4. Antacids and natural relief for stomach acid [29:37]

Liz Wolfe: Alright, next up. Victoria Noelle asks, “How do you feel about antacids? I’ve been paleo for over a year, and I’m having a bad side-ache. Doctor recommended an antacid to relieve the pain, and I’m not convinced that’s the issue. Are there foods to relieve acid naturally?”

Diane Sanfilippo: So, we don’t know if this has anything to do with the ache in her side, but I’ll talk about this question. I’ll talk about antacids just a bit here. So, if it is or it isn’t; {laughs} this could be helpful for whoever is dealing with perhaps some acid reflux.

So in general what’s happening when we’re dealing with acid reflux is not an issue of too much acid, it’s typically too little stomach acid. What happens is our stomach has a mechanical process that it goes through; it actually does some physical churning, and that churning process can be increased when we don’t have enough stomach acid to break down the chemical structure of, specifically, proteins but everything that’s in our stomach when we’re eating.

So, first and foremost in order to support stomach acid production, we want to be chewing our food adequately; more than we think we need to. Most often just paying attention to chewing starts to bring that to a reasonable place. I think most often we are not paying attention to chewing; we’re basically getting the food to a place where it’s ready to be swallowed and then we’re on with it. So in order to keep that acid from pushing back up against the lower esophageal sphincter, that’s what’s causing that reflux sensation, is that it’s pushing back up. Because if there’s not enough, then it’s going to be kind of a bubbly feeling.

But once we’re chewing; we doing a couple of things. One, we mechanically break down the food more before it gets to our stomach, and two; we send signals to our brain to tell our entire digestive system, “food is coming, expect food now.” Which is one of the reasons why I generally tend to recommend against things like chewing gum, especially for people who are concerned with being hungry more often than not. Chewing gum; if you can find a natural form that’s not loaded with artificial sweeteners, and junk, it might be good for somebody who is trying to stimulate their appetite. If you’re one of those people who feels like you’re not hungry often enough, it actually might help you feel hungry. Because that’s what chewing really would tell the body; food is coming.

So, this will stimulate production of everything in the digestive system that needs to be primed to start breaking down food. So it not only stimulates some of these stomach acid production, but obviously chewing is going to release some of the; it’s going to release salivary amylase, which will start to break down carbohydrates in the mouth. So you’re getting this mechanical and enzymatic process beginning by chewing. So that’s the first thing that I recommend, for people who are dealing with acid reflux, is that they chew their food really, really well.

But the next thing, and this could be done beforehand but chewing is one thing you can do immediately, right. So if you’re hearing this episode, and you can’t stock up on some of these natural supports, you can start chewing more. And getting into rest and digest mode. That’s really, even before the chewing, is kind of sitting down and breathing before you start eating. Most of us are very often kind of eating on the go, or we’re standing up, or we’re in the car, or we’re at the gym. We maybe haven’t even calmed down from the workout yet, and that’s definitely going to cause some problems. You’re not going to be able to digest food well in that scenario.

So you’re in rest and digest, and you’re chewing. So if you are looking for some natural support; and again, this is stuff that’s covered in Practical Paleo and in the Master Class; which, you know, the Master Class, just like other classes you might enroll for in college, for example, the books are required reading. So you do need to have Practical Paleo and Eat the Yolks because we are obviously going to refer to the text of our own books, where we’ve written this stuff before. But you could do a little bit of something acidic before your meal to naturally tell your body “this is a good thing.”

So, a bit of lemon juice; you could squeeze half or a quarter of a lemon, depending on how much you can tolerate, with a little bit of water and take that as a little bit of shooter before your meal. You could do this with apple cider vinegar as well, and I would start very slowly with apple cider vinegar. Like, a teaspoon in a shot of water, perhaps, or two teaspoons. Something that’s not too intense, because that stuff will be really, really potent. And when you mix it with water, you do dilute it a little bit. You are getting, obviously water into the system, but it’s a mostly very acidic shot. So that’s going to just prime the pump and support your body further, not only in producing stomach acid, which is kind of getting ready to digest food.

So those are a couple of things that you can do naturally. There are what I call healthy Tums. There are deglycerized licorice tablets that you can chew if you’re kind of in a, “I didn’t expect this to happen and it’s really painful and I am working on the preliminary things to help my stomach acid, but this feeling is just not going away.” Deglycerized licorice; you can find it chewable in probably most health food stores. That’s something you might want to lean on as a support. It’s definitely something that, if you find yourself in an extremely stressful situation. I was dealing with this a lot working on final edits for the book, and I was taking some of those deglycerized licorice tablets; I was chewing on those. Because the stress just wasn’t going to go away until the project was done, and I was doing the best I could but it just wasn’t alleviating anything. So that’s definitely something that can help out.

Other foods that can help to relieve it; you can definitely drink some aloe vera juice. It’s a combination of supporting the stomach acid production and also supporting the viscosity and, I’m trying to think of the other word, like durability of the stomach lining. So slippery elm, marshmallow root, and aloe vera are known to be very supportive of the stomach lining, because there are obviously some cases where people are dealing with ulcers, which is when the stomach lining doesn’t have that protection, and so the acid in the stomach is physically hurting and is painful. So that’s not the case for most people, but you can do both of these things, where you’re supporting stomach acid production when you go to eat, but perhaps when you’re not eating, you’re doing some support for the lining of your stomach in order to strengthen that as well and make that a little bit more resilient and just a little bit more durable there.

So, those are the basic tips that I have. All this stuff, again, is covered in the digestion section of Practical Paleo, and we get into it more in the Master Class and kind of give you guys a little bit more trouble shooting and support to get through that, as well as the ability to journal about this stuff so you can see what’s working and what’s not. Because as we’ve said before, we’ve talked about things like calories and weighing and measuring; but journaling a lot of this stuff is really helpful, because if you’re not sure what’s happening that would be causing the stress in the first place that might be causing the suppressed stomach acid, then making notes and kind of illuminating your own situation can be really helpful. Because if you’re just constantly chasing symptoms and not getting to the root of what’s going on, then you’re going to be constantly chasing symptoms. And we’d like to figure out, you know, what’s really causing this for you if we can.

5. Best time to take a probiotic [37:19]

Liz Wolfe: Okie dokie. This is a quick one. “When is the best time of day to take a probiotic; morning or night?” I think you and I have the same notes on this one.

Diane Sanfilippo: Go for it.

Liz Wolfe: Well. I had heard conflicting things; you and I went to the Poliquin Biosignature training years back. Years, that’s so crazy.

Diane Sanfilippo: I know.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs} It is. That was the origin of the charcuterie facial, I think, was the Poliquin Biosignature.

Diane Sanfilippo: It was.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah. And I believe what CP had to say was absolutely, positively take them in the evening. I have found that he’s correct about a lot of things, even though I hate to admit it, but I’m just not convinced, necessarily, on this point. If you need guidance, and you’re just kind of wondering when to schedule it in; yeah, maybe take them in the evening before bed, after food. But, if that doesn’t seem to work for you and you're getting good results doing it at a different time, I wouldn’t question that.

Diane Sanfilippo: Agreed. I don’t think there’s a ton of method to the madness there, and you have; you know, this is where the journaling and the keeping notes. If you’ve been taking probiotics for a long time, and you’re not feeling anything, maybe switch when you’re taking them, and then maybe switch what you’re taking.

6. Best type and form of probiotic [38:50]

Liz Wolfe: That is a good point. Different strains, different effects. You just never know.

Alright, and that’s a good segue. “What’s the best type and form of probiotics to take, and how do you feel about kefir?” I honestly, I don’t know the best type and form. There are some different strains that different practitioners like for different reasons, and I just don’t know. I think it depends on who you are and what you’re dealing with, but I know you have notes on this one.

Diane Sanfilippo: No, I think part of it is that we’ve said this pretty repeatedly, because there is no, “this is the one.” For the reasons we were talking about with the gut microbiome; everybody is dealing with a different landscape in there. So to say that we would all benefit from the same introduction of different probiotics would be kind of shooting in the dark, you know?

Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.

Diane Sanfilippo: We don’t know. It’s literally dark matter in there. We don’t know what’s happening in there! So I think that you really just have to try something and see if you feel anything different. And when I say if you feel anything different, any of the symptoms that you’re experiencing that you’re thinking are related to this that we were taking the probiotic to help, do you experience any alleviation of those symptoms?

So let’s just say you’re dealing with some eczema. Do you notice anything change with that, yes or no? And, obviously we can always come back to; has your digestion changed for the better. Meaning, if you were experiencing constipation or any diarrhea or loose stools, has that evened out at all? Those are the things I would really be looking for.

But again, if your symptoms are like fatigue, or migraine, or just anything else, did the introduction of the probiotic seem to change any of that for the better. And if you haven’t experienced a direct, like, “I’m taking this but the symptoms haven’t changed.” If your digestion has changed, that’s a good thing. Because when we do start to even out our digestion, other things will start to fall into place in a positive direction, perhaps in a longer term. It might not be this week. And I would say any probiotic that you’re introducing, give it 30 days at least, because you just need to give your body time to adjust to what’s happening.

But in terms of types that you can take, some folks will find that a lot of them have a dairy base, and they’re concerned about being able to tolerate that. So lots of time you’ll see more of a soil based organisms introduced, so that’s where something like Prescript Assist, that’s one brand that folks do often turn to, and it’s one; we have that in our house. Neither of us really take any supplements with very much regularity. We really just take them for a period of time and then move on. I mean, that’s really what the point of supplementation should be, for the most part.

But there isn’t, unfortunately, it would be so awesome if we could say; “here’s the one that everyone should take and you’re going to feel better.” There’s just never an overarching sort of prescription in that way. You know what I mean?

“How do you feel about kefir?” I feel great about any fermented foods. And I think maybe to your point, Liz; maybe some of the probiotics we’re getting from our foods, I just don’t know. We can never really know exactly what’s in there when we’re getting it. I mean, I’ve seen on a bottle of GT’s kombucha they’re telling you how many organisms are there. I don’t know. Do we know? But I still think it’s sort of a test of, when you consume that, how do you feel? And for me, eating yogurt, I feel better eating yogurt. I’ve finally found one that works for me; meaning I’m not breaking out from eating it, and my digestion actually feels really good lately.

So, you know, who knows if it’s the actual probiotics that are in there or not. Don’t know exactly what it could be; it could be some of the nutrient value I’m getting from it that’s making me feel really good. But I think any fermented foods that you want to try that you can incorporate into your diet that work for you are great. And I think getting a variety of different ones is definitely going to help. Because you are getting different bacterial strains in something like kombucha versus kefir or yogurt versus sauerkraut, etc. you’re getting different bacteria in different forms. So I think whatever you can do to mix it up is a good idea. That’s about it.

Liz Wolfe: I like it. And you might have; we’re having some technical issues probably because it’s windy out here at the Farmternet, but I don’t know if you mentioned this already. But you could also have the same strain, but different potency in two different formulations. So you can’t necessarily say this strain doesn’t work for me; it could be the potency. There’s just a lot to consider.

Diane Sanfilippo: That’s true. I didn’t mention that. But also, folks can do a little bit of digging. There are certain types of bacteria that are in certain fermented foods as well as in certain supplements that have more known correlative, positive responses, I guess. I’m trying to see if there were a couple of notes that I wanted to give people on this. I don’t think; I don’t know at this point I want to get down that rabbit hole.

Liz Wolfe: Ok.

Diane Sanfilippo: But you know, the different strains that we hear about, like Saccharomyces boulardii, for example. There are very specific things that different bacteria and different yeasts are known to either support or not. So we can look into that, but I just hate to get overly prescriptive about it; and be like, everyone who has this issue should find this and take it. You know what I mean? I just, I hesitate to do that because I just don’t want folks to go out and start popping all this stuff, and be like, “well you said this was going to help me.” I don’t know. We don’t know.

Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.

Diane Sanfilippo: Everyone’s got a really different situation going on.

Liz Wolfe: Alrighty. Well, do you have any notes on what to look for in buying probiotics or digestive enzymes? Refrigerated, not refrigerated for probiotics.

Diane Sanfilippo: I’m losing you again, but I think you said refrigerated versus not. You know, I’ve definitely heard back and forth on this topic, and the last that my research turned up was that they do not need to be refrigerated, because if they need to be refrigerated and they’re that sensitive, then they may or may not really survive as we take them. So that’s kind of the last I have researched.

So just one note about digestive enzymes, because she was asking about those too. I would look for a pack of capsule, whatever type of form you’re going to get, tablet of enzymes that has multiple digestive enzymes in it, because different enzymes will help to digest different macronutrients. Some are going to be supportive of protein, carbohydrates, fat. You may want to keep an eye out for whether or not it includes HCl, and if you want the HCl or not. I’m not saying whether or not you should get it with or without; I generally would say without is probably better, because if you want the HCl support, you can take that separately. But if you didn’t want it, and you’re taking it with the enzymes, it can be too harsh when you take it. So that’s just something to look out for when you’re purchasing digestive enzymes.

You can also, when you read the label, you can see what it’s saying it will help to break down. So if it’s something that has like a lipase that will help to break down fats, it will say that on the label. So if you think that what you’re experiencing based on your digestion, or based on the issue is, for example trouble digesting fats, then you want to make sure it has that in there. You want to make sure it doesn’t just have something that’s going to help break down protein or carbohydrate; you want to make sure it’s got fat enzymes; fat digesting enzymes. So lipase versus a protease, for example. So that’s it on enzymes.

7. Constipation, bloating, and pressure [47:02]

Liz Wolfe: Ok, let’s talk about poop.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: Actually, let’s talk about not pooping. This is a question about constipation.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing} Let’s talk about poop.

Liz Wolfe: Let’s talk about not pooping. “How can I know for sure what is causing constipation? Why do I have pressure and bloating between the bottom of my sternum and my belly button/upper stomach? Can’t wait for this episode.” That was the question, by the way.

Diane Sanfilippo: Ok. So do you want me to dig into this one first?

Liz Wolfe: Yeah, you’re the poop queen.

Diane Sanfilippo: I’m the poop… {laughs}. I don’t know if I’m the not-pooping queen, but perhaps. This is back to the same recommendation that I keep giving you guys; track, track, track. Not just track what you’re eating and your water, but tracking your eliminations; information about that. Get a little notebook, give yourself some kind of scale that you want to use for tracking it. If you want to use; I believe it’s now on page 92 in Practical Paleo; it was on page 75 before. If you want to use the guide to your poop from the book and talk about which you're seeing in the toilet. If you want to draw yourself a little picture, keep your notebook to yourself, don’t show your friends. But if you want to track what’s going on with that, that is going to tell you so much.

But not only are you going to track food, water, and eliminations; you’re going to track your exercise and your movement. So what kind of movement you’re getting. Because if you’re not getting any movement; like physical activity actually can absolutely help motility; digestive motility. So if you’re like; “well, I’ve actually not been exercising at all, and I’m really not walking that much.” Well, that’s your first place to start, actually.

And stress. You have to write down what’s going on in your life, and nothing is really too small to track in terms of stress. You’ve really got to take all of that stuff into account. Because the way that you handle stress can be very different from someone else. Your body could be physically manifesting this constipation as a result of physical, emotional stress that’s going on. So I think that’s really important.

Of course, I have other notes on this as well. It’s totally likely that you’re just not tolerating certain foods, or not digesting them well, and FODMAPs are a really common culprit here. If you want to learn more about what FODMAPs are and what’s going on with that; of course in Practical Paleo and the Master Class we talk more about that stuff. I have, and we’re going to talk about SIBO next, but I have an entire guide called Simplifying SIBO on my website, and that is free currently. If you go to the home page and you scroll down to the bottom, you’ll be able to download that. So that’s something that you’ll see a little bit more information on FODMAPs in there. Just as a quick heads up; vegetables that we really commonly eat in a paleo diet, like cauliflower, and broccoli, and sweet potato. A lot of times those are things that, you know, they’re really healthy foods; you just may not be tolerating them.

Typically when you have this issue with FODMAP intolerance, there’s a root cause. It’s not just; oh, for forever your body doesn’t tolerate those foods. For some people, it is. For some people, garlic and onions, especially if they’re raw, are kind of always a bit harsh, and you need to just work around it. But for some people, it’s just about healing to be able to digest that stuff.

So those are kind of the first things I would recommend. A little bit more of a fringe recommendation, as crazy as that might sound to some people, some gentle massage on your actual intestine area from the outside; just gently massaging to get some physical motion going there. That could be helpful. But there’s just so much that can feed into this, and we don’t know what the one cause could be.

Liz Wolfe: Ok, so, did you already address “What to do when you’re eating strict paleo, drinking lots of water, eating fiber, and things still won’t move?”

Diane Sanfilippo: I mean, it’s kind of the same stuff that I just was talking about in the previous answer. Because all of the food stuff isn’t always the answer. I’m curious when she said lots of fiber; does she mean lots of insoluble fiber; like lots of leafy greens and lots of, I don’t know, chia seeds or something like that? Is she getting some soluble fiber in there as well? Some foods like jicama and sweet potato. Is she eating some fermented foods, getting bacteria? I don’t know exactly what else she’s eating, but I think that both of these ladies; I think they’re both ladies, can benefit from what I just said for the previous answer.

8. SIBO questions and testing [51:53]

Liz Wolfe: Ok, let’s move on to a couple of SIBO questions. Alright this one, “What advice do you have for dealing with SIBO when it’s caused by an incurable, underlying condition. Also, any suggestions for other tests; blood, stool, breath, etc., to ask the doc for to pinpoint seemingly random bouts of gut issues.”

Diane Sanfilippo: So just that reminder, Simplifying SIBO is the guide on the website. Scroll down to the bottom of the home page, you’ll be able to grab it there. Regarding tests; I think it’s best to be working one on one with a naturopath or whatever type of functional medicine practitioner. I wouldn’t say in this case that a non-integrative or a naturopathic holistic doctor, standard western medical doctor, I don’t think would really get it about the tests that you’re going to ask for. So, that doesn’t mean none of them will, but in general if she’s saying what to ask for, I’m just making sure that she’s saying of a naturopath or a functional medicine doctor; somebody like that is kind of board with all this stuff and can do some digging with you.

I think in general, you're probably going to have to do a bunch of different kinds of tests. One of the questions we’ve had recently, which I don’t know that we’ve addressed it in other places, but we’ve talked about this before, I know. People often ask what to expect when they work with a practitioner like this. They have ideas about what’s going on with you, but they don’t know. We all have some complicated stuff going on, and inevitably you’re going to through multiple rounds of different types of tests. Like, this test if it comes back negative or doesn’t show the result you were thinking it might; it’s not like a bad thing, you didn’t show up with whatever that proposed problem was, it’s just more information. And really, your practitioner isn’t going to know what’s wrong with you just by hearing your symptoms and looking at you, they need to dig in and do some testing.

So obviously, a stool test is generally pretty standard. A leaky gut test could be one; it’s a lactulose mannitol test; you can Google that. That may be a good idea as well. SIBO testing is often done by breath testing. There may also be a H. pylori test or a test for other infections there, as well. You know, a blood test if you’ve got an underlying infection, a blood test may show some white blood cell activity or it may show elevated C-reactive protein or CRP. Those are some things that might show up in your blood work.

But I’m curious what the incurable underlying condition is that she’s referring to here. If you’re dealing with a diagnosed autoimmune condition, then you may have leaky gut to some degree all of the time. You may not be able to 100% heal leaky gut. So those folks are predisposed to leaky gut, which means they’re predisposed potentially to having a small intestinal bacterial overgrowth issue all the time. 100% healing may not be in the cards, but I definitely think that lifestyle factors; things that I cover in the digestive health plan in Practical Paleo and that we cover in the Master Class regarding stress are extremely critical to healing.

We cannot heal under massive physical or emotional stress; or while we’re taking over the counter pain medications. Food just isn’t going to matter that much in the grand scheme of things, because it’s not really about the food. I think it’s very easy to focus on the food because that’s the number one easiest thing to control as an input; but it’s not generally what’s causing the problem, it’s just causing the symptoms and the reaction when we eat them.

So, I think that’s kind of the overarching notes on SIBO. And I know there’s a second question here from Julia that’s kind of related about what to do about SIBO that’s been treated multiple times; do you just live with it? And kind of the same notes really apply there.

Some people may also; you know, we have nutrition outlines and recommendations in the Simplifying SIBO guide, and for some people it takes going as extreme as an elemental diet; which is basically, you’re basically drinking like a Soylent type of drink that gives you nutrition without any potentially irritating factors that would come in the food. You’re just getting nutrients without getting anything involved with the whole food that is known to irritate digestion. I do know some folks who have done that, and have found healing by doing that, along with working with their practitioner on the healing protocols that they’ll be doing. So some of that is what may be called for, and it’s very extreme, but when you’re suffering really badly it can be beneficial. Some folks are going through like a GAPs protocol, where it’s a lot of broth, and reintroducing things from there. So there are a lot of different approaches you can take.

Liz Wolfe: Every once in a while, I get Soylent ads in my Facebook news food, which just shows how inept their marketing department is.

Diane Sanfilippo: That’s crazy.

Liz Wolfe: And every single comment is; it has something to do with Soylent Green; or, “what is this garbage” and “why does this photo look like a uterus?” it’s all just very funny. I think they need a little bit of help.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yep.

Liz Wolfe: And since we are; I don’t want anybody to think I’m not listening to you; I am listening to you, we’re actually plugged into our cell phones now, so things are little bit fuzzy.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: Did you mention anything about thyroid testing with SIBO; we talked about that a little bit at the beginning of the podcast.

Diane Sanfilippo: No, I did not.

Liz Wolfe: Ok, because we already covered it, so there we go. Alright, so I guess we’re pretty much done here.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. Should we remind folks; I mean, we mentioned it throughout the episode, but for those who have been thinking about the Master Class, and is it going to be right for me; it is something that if you’ve been listening to the show for a long time, you are who we have in mind when we created this Master Class, when we created the curriculum for our seminars. It’s folks like you who know a lot about paleo. You know a lot about real food; but a lot of the details and a lot of the application of, “how can I get this working for me” are kind of tough to put together. So, just as a reminder, one of the modules of the Master Class is how your digestion should work and what to do if it’s not. You’ll be hand-held through the whole process, as well as given the ability to journal. We have a journal that’s coming out for everyone who is in the Master Class. And really giving you a place to kind of focus on this stuff.

Sometimes, we’re throwing out answers and ideas for people, but we need to sit down and look at our own situation, look at the information, and apply it in that way instead of hearing bits and pieces that may or may not apply to you, because the questions can be nuanced and not really your situation. So this is really the chance for you to sit down and go through it and really learn the information and apply it and get some things figured out.

Liz Wolfe: The Balanced Bites podcast is sponsored in part by the Nutritional Therapy Association. The NTA trains and certifies nutritional therapy practitioners and consultants, including me, I’m an NTP, emphasizing bio-individuality and the range of dietary strategies that support wellness. The NTA emphasizes local, whole, properly prepared nutrient dense foods as the key to restoring balance and enhancing the body’s ability to heal. Nutritional therapy practitioners and consultants learn a wide range of tools and techniques to assess and correct nutritional imbalances. To learn lots more about the nutritional therapy program, go to There are workshop venues in the US, Canada, and Australia, so chances are you’ll be able to find a venue that works for you.

Liz Wolfe: Alright. That’s it for this week. You can find me, Liz, at and you can find Diane at Join our email lists for free goodies and updates that you don’t find anywhere else on our websites or here on the podcast. While you’re on the internet, please leave us an iTunes review. See you next week.

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