Podcast Episode #278: Unsupportive Friends & Family

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You’re listening to the Balanced Bites podcast episode 278.

Topics:
1. News and updates from Diane & Liz [5:39]

2. What Diane is digging right now: Microblading [15:01]

3. Shout out: Scott’s new podcast, Full Body Fix Radio [18:01]

4. Dealing with unsupportive friends and family [19:35]

5. Judgmental coworkers [21:43]

6. Mother-in-law troubles [30:38]

7. Spousal disagreement on how to feed the kids [40:42]

8. Supportive, but not understanding the ‘lifestyle’ [48:51]

9. #LizTalksLittles: Television [54:35]

Diane Sanfilippo: Welcome to the Balanced Bites podcast. I’m Diane; a certified nutrition consultant, and the New York Times bestselling author of Practical Paleo and The 21-Day Sugar Detox. I live in San Francisco with my husband and fur kids. I’m currently obsessed with the fact that Jax is a complete sociopath and that Stassi finally gave him a quiz about it.

Liz Wolfe: I’m Liz; a nutritional therapy practitioner, and author of the Wall Street Journal best-seller Eat the Yolks; The Purely Primal Skincare Guide; and the online program Baby Making and Beyond. I live on a farm in the mystical land of the Midwest, outside of Kansas City, and I am ashamed that you are that far behind on Vanderpump Rules.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: We’re the co-creators of the Balanced Bites Master Class, which is now officially open for enrollment, and we’ve been bringing you this award winning podcast for 5 years and counting. We’re here to share our take on modern paleo living, answer your questions, and chat with leading health and wellness experts. Enjoy this week’s episode, and submit your questions at http://blog.balancedbites.com. Before we get started, let’s hear from one of our sponsors.

Liz Wolfe: The Balanced Bites podcast is sponsored in part by the Nutritional Therapy Association. The NTA trains and certifies nutritional therapy practitioners and consultants (including me; I’m an NTP), emphasizing bio-individuality and the range of dietary strategies that support wellness. The NTA emphasizes local, whole, properly prepared nutrient dense foods as the key to restoring balance and enhancing the body’s ability to heal. Nutritional therapy practitioners and consultants learn a wide range of tools and techniques to assess and correct nutritional imbalances. To learn lots more about the nutritional therapy program, go to http://www.NutritionalTherapy.com. There are workshop venues in the US, Canada, and Australia, so chances are you’ll be able to find a venue that works for you.

Liz Wolfe: Hey everybody, it’s me Liz and I’m here with Diane.

Diane Sanfilippo: Oh hey.

Liz Wolfe: Who has some homework to do this evening apparently to catch up on like 6 episodes of Vanderpump Rules.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} I actually; I’m not even caught up in order, but let me tell you what I just discovered last week. {laughs} So bad. I just; so I’m a big fan of the Bravo on demand situation, and often I can have my ad blocker turned on so I don’t even have to deal with commercials; and that’s what I do for my breaks during my work days. I catch an episode of whatever Housewives or Watch What Happens Live. Totally obsessed. And I need that; you know {laughs} I need to not just be like all work all the time, as you know, Liz. So I do my best to kind of watch the whole seasons of all this stuff. But anyway.

So I finally discovered; and people are going to be listening like, Diane you’re ridiculous; you are such an old lady. But I discovered the Xfinity app; so it’s the app from the cable company. And you can not only watch whatever you want on demand, but you can watch live TV. And for anyone who has seen my Snapchats; the remote control situation with the giant television that we have with the cable box thing and the gaming thing and the whatever; I just kind of refuse to learn how to use the remote controls. And for as tech savvy as I am; I keep telling Scott; I don’t want to know because that just enables me to watch more things. And I really only want to watch about 4 different channels.

So anyway, long story short I discovered this app. The other day I was watching My 600-pound Life. These are the kinds of things I like to watch. But anyway, I finally caught up; I didn’t catch up, actually. I was like, what’s this episode; The Sociopath Test, I’m going to watch that one. Because I’m like; is somebody finally going to tell Jax you’re a complete sociopath, and will that even sink in? Does that even mean anything to a sociopath when you tell them they’re a sociopath? Anyway. These are the important questions of my life.

Liz Wolfe: He’s too dumb to be a sociopath.

Diane Sanfilippo: I don’t think he is; but I don’t think telling them that does anything.

Liz Wolfe: No.

Diane Sanfilippo: I think that’s kind of the entire point. They’re like; oh yeah, ok I’m a sociopath. Disconnected. There’s nothing. It doesn’t hit them emotionally hard, because it can’t. No disrespect to someone who just put their entire life on television; that’s kind of a lot. But I’m just saying.

Liz Wolfe: I’m just so far beyond this plot line, I don’t even know how to get back into it. I’ve just completely moved on. I don’t know how to talk to you right now.

Diane Sanfilippo: I just can’t believe he’s got a girlfriend that he’s with. Anyway, ok. So there’s that. I know how much random people who tune into our podcast hate when we chat like this, so it makes me want to do it even more.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: But if you just started listening, and you’re like, “I thought these girls were going to talk about paleo,” check out the time stamps and just fast forward. Totally fine with us. We’re cool with it. Because to the rest of the OG listeners, this is pretty much their favorite part. {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: This is the jam. They’re like; “we’ve already heard all about how to deal with unsupportive family from you in the last 5 years.”

Diane Sanfilippo: Totally! {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: “Let’s talk about Diane’s time lag on reality television.”

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Exactly.

1. News and updates from Diane & Liz [5:39]

Liz Wolfe: Alright, so what are your business related updates?

Diane Sanfilippo: Ok so work-y stuff going on. My team and I finally put together our goal setting PDF that I talked about a few weeks ago in a Facebook live. And it’s a video on the website now, if you go to http://blog.balancedbites.com there’s a video button in the navigation that people may or may not have realized is there. You can subscribe on YouTube if you want to just get notifications when they go up, or you can just check that page whenever you want.

And I had talked about goal setting, and just different categories and all that stuff. We decided to make this into a quick workbook that you could print out and give you some templates and give you some ideas of how to set goals. And it’s just our own way of creating that; there’s a million ways to do it. And if this is resonates with you; cool. And if not, do whatever you’re doing, that’s fine. But you can check that out. I believe there is a weekly post, but maybe we’ll put up a post about it separately so that you guys can get it here. We’ll link to it in the show notes if you’re looking for it so that you can find it. So there’s that

Balanced Bites spices if you guys haven’t heard and are psyched about it; if you’ve been cooking from Practical Paleo and you’re like, “Making these blends is kind of annoying.” Or if you haven’t and you just want a way to, what I’m calling #paleoeasybutton, throw some spices in with whatever you’re cooking and it’s going to taste really good, then you can check those out. You can go to www.bbspices.com. They’re being sold currently only directly through Kasandrinos website, and special little thanks to the Kasandrinos family, to Tony and Effie for enabling this whole project to happen, because I wanted to create these spices for a long time, and finding the right way to do it was tough; and honestly, I’ve had businesses in the past where I’ve had inventory and I’ve had to deal with shipping, and I didn’t want to do that. And that was the reason why I didn’t make these sooner.

Four years ago, five years ago, when I was working on the first book; I was like, oh that would be cool if I made those. But I was like, I don’t really want to deal with that. And Tony and Effie basically said, “We’ll take care of it, no big deal.” So they’re dealing with the fulfillment and the shipping and all of that, so you guys can order right through their website. But if you go to www.BBSpices.com it will just point you right over there, so that’s easy. And I’ll be sharing more recipes that use the blends, but there are lots of them in the books as well.

What else? I think that’s pretty much it. Just Facebook live stuff. Don’t forget you guys can catch me there, usually Wednesday at 4 p.m. And I’ve also been known to pop onto Instagram live now and then; which, I don’t know that you guys get notifications for it, and those also don’t live anywhere after. They’re totally a moment that comes and goes, but I’m enjoying that because that’s fun if you have questions or just want to say hey or see the dog on my video. {laughs} That’s pretty much it. So there you go. What’s going on in your neck of the woods?

Liz Wolfe: I always say that nothing is going on, but I feel like you caught me at the right moment last night, where I was like, actually working. So you can attest to the fact that I actually do work sometimes.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: And I get in these rabbit holes that are so; I just get so stuck.

Diane Sanfilippo: It’s intense.

Liz Wolfe: So anyway, thanks to this whole rabbit hole I got into last night; I’m working, I’ve been working on this one segment of Baby Making and Beyond for months and months and months. Because; ok, so this is what we’re trying to do with the program; or this is what we are doing with the program. The last thing I want to do is just; while I do want to pull together information from everywhere, all into one place, that doesn’t mean I’m going to regurgitate what has already been done or said. So a lot of discussion about genetics and epigenetics has happened in the paleo real food community, and in my opinion the discussion has been very incomplete. I think we use the word epigenetics like this buzzword and we really don’t truly understand the influence we have over our genes, and alternatively the influence that we do not have over our genes and how they are expressed.

So I just think there’s all this gray area that people aren’t tackling, and I don’t want to regurgitate some other person’s information about MTHFR. I think there’s a lot more towards the story that we owe parents that are trying to figure this stuff out. Especially when it comes to the genetics stuff.

So I just got into the rabbit hole; and I got lucky enough to connect with two different geneticists who I’m basically doing a brain pick with today, which I’m really, really grateful for. But it was just this moment where I was like, “Diane I can’t! This is never going to happen if I stay in this rabbit hole. I don’t know, I feel like I’ve come out of it a little bit, but I feel like I finally have proof that I actually do work sometimes, so that’s good.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: I forgot where I was going with all of that, but I feel like I’m going to make some progress today with a little bit of what we’re doing. I think that we take a lot of information that’s floating around out there; I don’t’ want to say for granted or at face value; I don’t know what the expression I’m looking for is. But a lot of times we think; “Oh, Chris Kresser has already tackled this, or so-and-so has already tackled this.” Well, have they tackled this in this context? What have we forgotten? What are we missing? And that’s the whole; I wouldn’t need to do this program if I didn’t’ feel like there was more to be said. Does that make sense?

Diane Sanfilippo: It totally does. And I think, you know, that’s why people trust us, and that’s why we try really hard not to overstate things and to say it depends a lot. Because it does. There is so little that is perfectly finite information; and I think that’s also why you and I are big on not using scare tactics to share information or to encourage people to do something because if they don’t; you know, they don’t have the best information or something like that. No, I mean, I think it makes complete sense, and I think that’s why we put our spin on what we’re doing, because we feel like there’s more to say or something different to say that people aren’t thinking about and talking about. So, I’m excited. I think it’s; I mean, that’s exactly why you’re the right person to create a program like this. Because you care about it. You care about it to that level.

Liz Wolfe: Well, I hope it ends being what I….

Diane Sanfilippo: And that’s why it’s not happening quickly. That’s why none of this stuff happens quickly. You know what I mean?

Liz Wolfe: Right; yes.

Diane Sanfilippo: If someone puts together something quickly, I would be suspect.

Liz Wolfe: But there’s just this heavy, heavy guilt I feel, and I think you and I experienced this with the Master Class as well, because you feel like you have a lot of information that needs to get out there, but I can’t put it out there until it’s all gelled into something that makes sense in context.

Diane Sanfilippo: Mm-hmm.

Liz Wolfe: I’m not just going to throw out scary tidbits for people and leave them sitting; I’d rather hoard all of the information {laughs} until it’s all put together. All these puzzle pieces are together. It feels like the right thing to do; I don’t feel like there’s any other way to do it. But there’s also that guilt where I feel like people want this information, people are having to move on with their lives without the information that they wanted, and that sucks, but I just don’t feel like there’s any other way to go about it. So. Anywho.

Diane Sanfilippo: It’s all good. It’s fair. You had a baby in the meantime, and your integrity on what you’re putting out there is really the most important thing; not the speed. So. All good.

Liz Wolfe: Yep. Life goes pretty fast. Speaking of the Master Class, by the way. The last day to join us in the Master Class is coming Monday, January 16th, 2017. Join us for our 10-week nutrition course; either as a student or as a health professional. We don’t want people to miss out. We’re saying this is our only Master Class for 2017. I think, as I’ve discovered over the last 2 years; a year goes really, really fast.

Diane Sanfilippo: Mm-hmm.

Liz Wolfe: I think it’s probably not going to happen again in 2017. So please don’t wait; sign up at http://blog.balancedbites.com/masterclass.

Diane Sanfilippo: And last weeks’ episode was all about the class, so if you jumped into this one and you’re curious about the class, go ahead and tune in there. And if this is the first time that you’re hearing that it won’t be offered again, I just want to remind you you can totally enroll now and take it at your own pace. I had somebody ask; “I’m going to be traveling for 2 months, can I sign up this summer?” I’m like, no you can’t, but you can sign up now and you can start it whenever you want. It’s just we have live calls that we will record and you’ll get to check those out in the recordings after the fact. And you can always ask your questions in the Facebook group, but the actual live content goes for 10 weeks starting on January 20th.

But don’t feel like you can’t do it just because you can’t dig in starting then; you can totally enroll and get the program. And even at that point, when we relaunch it again next year, you’re still a student, so if you want to sign up now and not start it until later, and then jump in with the pacing of next year, that’s totally fine too. Anyway, just, I don’t want people to feel like they can’t do it if they can’t start immediately. You totally can.

2. What Diane is digging right now: Microblading [15:01]

Liz Wolfe: Alright; so Diane. What are you digging right now?

Diane Sanfilippo: Alright so people keep asking me about the whole eyebrow microblading situation. I’m digging it; I like it. I had heard about it. Well, I think I had seen things swirling around on Instagram, maybe. And then our friend, Juli Bauer, from PaleOMG had it done, and I was like, tell me everything. And she wrote a whole blog post about it; we can link to her blog post in our show notes, too. But I found someone here locally in San Francisco who is an eyebrow artist, so I was like; alright, I’m going to check it out.

So what it is is it’s a semipermanent tattoo that’s done, not with a tattooing needle, but it’s done with a teeny, tiny, fancy razor blade. It goes probably on the end of something that looks like an Exacto knife, but it’s really, really tiny. I’m going to say it’s like 5 to 8 mm long, and 1 mm thick maybe. So it’s super tiny. And essentially the artist just creates hair strokes that look like hairs, but it’s not the same as what a tattoo would look like.

So essentially what it does is it cuts these; I mean, that sounds terrible, but it scrapes these little hair shaped strokes onto your eyebrows. So this is very vain, all of it. But I have really thin eyebrows that keep getting thinner despite the fact that I don’t wax them or plug them, but #aging. So yeah, I’ve had it done. I’ve had it touched up. I really like it. It’s healing right now so sometimes people will see me on videos, and some days it looks super dark, and you’re like; “Whoa, Diane, what’s going on with your eyebrows.” {laughs} but when it’s right after it’s been done and it’s healing, it looks kind of crazy and it kind of fades out and it looks normal. So I like it. I’ve had a good experience.

I would definitely say if you're interested in doing it, make sure you go to somebody who is experienced and you can see samples of their work and you know for sure it’s their work, and it looks like they really take the person’s face into consideration {laughs} and it looks really good and professional. I would say the most important parts two things; one that you are really numbed well with whatever numbing cream they give you because literally it’s night and day, the attempts that she would make to get in there and get started when the numbing cream wasn’t working and when it was. It was pretty painful when it wasn’t working. And then that you know what you want. I think it’s important to show them and tell them what you want. So there you go; anyway. I don’t think I’m going to blog about it or anything, but you can check out Juli’s post. She blogged about it. There you go.

3. Shout out: Scott’s new podcast, Full Body Fix Radio [18:01]

Liz Wolfe: Cool. What about a shout out?

Diane Sanfilippo: Alright, this week we’re going to shout out to my husband! {laughs} My husband, Scott. He is at Full Body Fix on Instagram, and he has a brand new podcast that he started, called Full Body Fix Radio. He’s just a skilled dude, man. He’s like; I guess I’ll start a podcast. And he just got the thing done. He’s got a bunch of episodes already you guys can check out. You can get it the same way you get this show. You can head to iTunes and Stitcher; I think you can link through his Instagram. But he’s talking all about movement and pain and different ways to kind of tackle that and different ways to approach it. He’s interviewing a lot of other doctors, as well, so it’s not only him exclusively. He’s having conversations with some other chiros and personal trainers and people who are all in the whole movement space. So really interesting stuff; you guys can check it out over there. Full Body Fix Radio.

Liz Wolfe: Sweet.

Diane Sanfilippo: Pete’s Paleo has opened a new location on the East Coast. Since they’re still operating out of San Diego, as well; this means local produce and meat coming from both coasts. And drastically reduced shipping prices. Check out their new and improved website, www.PetesPaleo.com to take advantage of low shipping rates; and be sure to use coupon code 1FREEBACON. That’s the number 1; free bacon, and receive a free half pound of bacon with the purchase of a meal plan. Go to www.PetesPaleo.com.

4. Dealing with unsupportive friends and family [19:35]

Liz Wolfe: Alright, so for today’s topic we put a call out on Instagram as we often do for questions about unsupportive friends and family. Which, of course can be a challenge this time of year. A lot of folks are starting out with some fresh goals at this time of year, and maybe there are people in your life that are trying to bring you down. So, if you decided to make a resolution about eating habits, or you joined an eating challenge, or whatever it might be you might find people around, you know, being a little aggressive about your choice. For some reason they seem to care about what you’re doing with your life and your body. {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: So we’re going to answer your questions and just discuss some of these comments today, and hopefully we can give people some moral support and some shoring up for the new year.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, I think so.

Liz Wolfe: Alright so let’s start off with this. This is a comment from Sprouted Living on Instagram. Sprouted Living said, “I could write an entire paper on this subject. It’s so incredibly difficult to deal with. People think it’s a diet when it’s a lifestyle; it’s not funny, it’s not a joke. I’m beyond exhausted explaining my healthy eating to people. I don’t understand how our society got so twisted that eating crappy food is the norm while eating healthy, whole, real food is considered extreme.”

I was thinking about a lot of things in our society are inclined that way. And what I think is so funny is when people don’t realize that they’re basically fighting the corporate battle for them. All these little soldiers on the ground, making fun of people at ground level. If you want to talk about a grassroots movements, these giant corporations, these companies; and it’s not, sorry, it’s not exclusive to food. These people are just off collecting money from whatever it might be; subsidies, and massive profits, and they just have these little soldiers on the ground just poo-pooing people’s lifestyle choices, and they’re not even getting paid. Give me a break.

Diane Sanfilippo: Totally. Totally.

5. Judgmental coworkers [21:43]

Liz Wolfe: Alright, let’s look at this comment from Paleo Colorado. Hmm, I wonder where that person is from.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: Ok, Paleo Colorado says, “I work in the eating disorder field, and unfortunately many coworkers associate paleo with a restrictive lifestyle or eating disordered habits. If a family comes in need of help and mention they are paleo, clean eaters, or being very aware of sugar intake, there are a lot of sarcastic and negative comments about the family’s choice.” How can you help people? Ok, no, I’m not going to. I’ll wait until the comment is done to; I know. I’ve got to stop.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: {sigh} “Overhearing these comments led me to not even think about talking about the fact that I’m choosing to eat paleo. It feels very secretive. I get a lot of anxiety at the thought of my coworkers associating me with paleo; which I realize is insane. I’m eating better than I have in my entire life, and I’m afraid to talk about it because of overhearing these negative and uneducated comments. Have you run into this or a similar scenario before? I don’t feel like it’s my place to educate my coworkers, and frankly it just doesn’t seem like a conversation worth having, but at the same time it does feel weird to feel like my lifestyle choices need to be such a secret. It makes it feel wrong when I know that it is not.”

How can anybody help people with eating disorders when they hold all this judgment about food choices secretly behind the surface? I don’t; that sucks.

Diane Sanfilippo: Amen. Amen. I actually think in this case it would be worth having a conversation. The older I get, the more I realize that as often as possible when; and I posted a picture on Instagram recently of the inside jacket of a book called the Four Agreements, which I think a lot of you have read, or have seen, or have heard of; much like there are the 5 love languages, there are the 4 agreements. I guess there are 5 now; somebody said there’s a new one. Anyway, all of these agreements actually apply to what she’s talking about here; and I think one of them is not to make assumptions.

So I think unfortunately that’s what the coworkers are doing, is making a lot of assumptions. And I think the way that you can best diffuse that is; or defuse? Either way. {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: Yeah, both, both would work.

Diane Sanfilippo: Dismantle; diffuse, and defuse. {laughs} I think the best way to do that is by communicating very clearly. Like, let’s have a conversation about it, let’s not be catty. We are professionals, this is our work, and you are really in a position where you can bring a level of maturity.

And you know, don’t bring the judgment, don’t bring a holier than thou attitude about it to the table. I think it’s important to ask them why they think or are making assumptions about this approach. Because what they need to understand is that for a lot of people there are issues of how they feel when they eat certain foods that are not healthy. And it’s not about obsessing over whether or not a choice is “clean”; and it’s not about the orthorexia that can come with trying to attain some level of perfect eating. There are people who may fall into that category, and I think it’s important for you to recognize that that may happen, and I think it’s important to have the conversation with your coworkers to say; Look, I recognize that there is a disorder that can crop up as a result of people who get into this idea that there are clean healthy choices or paleo choices, and others that are not. But they need to hear the truth that; exactly what you just said, Liz. We have been fed a pile of lies about what is healthy nutrition.

We’ve had this conversation back and forth; when it comes to disordered eating, we absolutely are not experts on disordered eating, and we are not people who say; you know, folks who come into an eating disorder clinic with a lot of restrictions; we don’t think it’s something that they should continue to do, if they have all these restrictions. But if that person is legitimately celiac, for example, or they have a nut allergy, or they have an allergy here or there; respect that. I think there’s a level of disrespect that comes in when people are speaking that way, and I honestly think the best way to approach is to have the conversation; nip it in the bud. Put any of their questions to rest; but do so calmly and maturely in an environment where it’s about having conversation and that takes a lot of nerve. And it takes a lot of; you just have to work it up to be like, “OK, we’re going to do this now. Let’s have a conversation about it.”

And I promise you, it’s going to feel better after. But the more it gets built up on their side, in conversation without approaching you directly, it becomes worse and worse. So I think that’s the best way to approach it, is to really have that conversation and not ignore it and not let it build up; and not let it make you feel more insane, but to just diffuse it right away and just have the conversation.

Liz Wolfe: My approach would probably be, if I were forced to do something like that confrontational, I would probably do it a kind of Socratic way. Like, you know, “let’s get to the root of this.” Even though my preconceived notions of their viewpoints around the topic are pretty negative, no matter how stupid I think they are, I would probably take a lot of time and expect to listen a lot and basically just let them bury themselves.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: And you know, shoot pointed questions out there as is appropriate to further shine a mirror onto what needs to be really said. But yeah, you’re right. It needs to be talked about.

Diane Sanfilippo: Well, I’m going to say too; if she’s working in that field, she probably has some good people skills to the end that you're talking about. She probably has some good skills, asking questions and listening very intently. And I’m totally with you, I don’t know where the quote comes from, but seek first to understand. Try and understand where they’re coming from so that then you can have a conversation. Because if you’re just trying to battle, it’s totally pointless and I think it doesn’t lead to a productive working environment. And you’re all there to help people, and I think making sure that you know that you’re all on the same page, and recognize that first going into the conversation. You really all are trying to help people, but you just need to get to the root of it, that’s for sure.

Liz Wolfe: And in part, that also involves questioning what you know professionally. So there probably is some kind of professional creed or set of; I don’t know, a structural understanding of eating disorders in that profession that maybe is oriented toward, I don’t know, what? Everything in moderation, or something that we might not necessarily buy into as the best way to achieve health, whether neurological or gut health or whatever it might be; we would probably take a different approach in healing in some ways. And I think it might be important to say, “Let’s be willing to question what we know, and maybe there’s an element of psychology that we can pull in here that we haven’t thought about before.” Just shifting that framework.

And even if you come back around to the exact same structure that your profession is built upon anyway, at least you’ve explored and not fallen into that solider trap, where you’re just soldiering along with whatever your education told you previously. You know, the pace of academia is pretty darn slow. So have those exciting invigorating conversations with your coworkers, and you can all feel really empowered in what you’re doing.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. I think that’s a really good point. I think there are probably a lot of rules and regulations in place for good reasons; and there may be some that are worth questioning. You know? I think if we don’t question things then we’re just not really doing our job. To the point that you were making earlier about the research you’re doing. You may come around to what we’ve been believing is mostly right, and there’s this little piece that we didn’t get quite right, and I think that’s worth exploring, too, and having that mindset of; there’s always something to learn and then we rediscover what foundation we were building up that was still solid and which part of it could be adjusted.

Liz Wolfe: It sucks because I really just want to get from point A to point B; and I’m like; can I please discover something new and compelling that I can add to this discussion. But in the end, I have to go through all of this, even if it just brings me back to where we started.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: Alright.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. I mean, it’s not that different from writing a book, too, right? I mean, when we wrote our books; it’s the worst. Because you really want to say something that’s important and meaningful, and maybe different; and maybe it isn’t. Anyway, alright, we can move on. {laughs}

6. Mother-in-law troubles [30:38]

Liz Wolfe: Alrighty. This is; let’s address mother-in-law troubles. Maybe we won’t share this person’s name {laughs} just in case mother-in-law listens to the podcast.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: Alright. “I try desperately hard to keep my 2-year-old twins eating whole, nutrient dense foods and avoiding gluten as they get eczema when they have too much of it, and it’s a struggle with family. I can avoid gluten and processed food as an adult fine, but my mother-in-law always brings biscuits and cakes, etc., to family gatherings and questions why I won’t allow my kids to eat them. And it’s so hard to stop a toddler from eating food everyone else eats. What can I say to her in a kind way so she can understand why I feed my kids the way I do? When I try and explain about gluten and processed foods, she listens for a second and then tunes out. Any help would be greatly appreciated.”

This is an interesting one. Ok, she says they’re 2-year-old twins. So my little one is almost 2, but at this age, a month or two can make all the difference in what the kid is aware of or not aware of. So if her kiddos are like, really close to 2; I don’t know. My kid doesn’t even notice. So we just had family Christmas, and a ton of crap was brought into the house. A ton. Cakes and croissant, and cookies. I took a picture of one of the ingredients lists; it’s like, I think about this quote from, I think it’s Father of the Bride, where Steve Martin says, “A cake, Frank, is made of flour and sugar.” And this cake was like, at least 300 ingredients, and most of them ended in like propylene glycol, what have you.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: I was just horrified. And she didn’t even really notice. We just kind of feed her, and she eats what she eats and we eat what we eat. So it wasn’t really an issue. But what I’m guessing is I’m in for it in a couple of months now when my kiddo starts to notice that sometimes we don’t eat the same things that she does; or sometimes we don’t eat dinner, so what are we doing after she goes to bed? Are we eating all the nachos? So yeah, I imagine that it is hard.

My two thoughts right off the bat are; one, you can be really honest and do so in front of your mother-in-law with your children, when the kids ask why they can’t have something, you explain to them that we love grandma so much but she doesn’t understand yet how these foods affect them. {laughs} You know, basically it’s a guilt trip to lay out in front of the children, because it’s the truth. It’s true. She doesn’t understand that these foods really affect them and make them feel sick, or make their skin hurt, or whatever it might be. And if you communicate that to the kiddos in front of the family; yeah, it’s going to be a little bit embarrassing and it might be a little bit painful, but the conversation needs to be had that basically what she’s doing is disregarding the fact that these foods are a no-no for you, and put the kids in a situation of physical discomfort. And that’s just the way it is.

And there are no good answers to questions like this, by the way. These questions suck, and they’re never comfortable. And you either have to get comfortable with being uncomfortable, or you have to ignore it and sweep it under the rug. And it’s kind of the choice that you have.

I don’t know what’s going to happen with my family next year. I have a really good relationship with my mother-in-law, and I think she’s wonderful and I think she’s going to respect us. We’re going to have to actually spell it out and say, do not bring that over because she can’t have it and we don’t want it to be an issue. And maybe that will be uncomfortable, but it’s going to be uncomfortable because I feel uncomfortable, not because she’s not going to comply. So, that’s just the way it is.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. I think when it comes to family in general in this situation, you know there’s something that a lot of us tend to feel apprehension and fear about when it comes to just directly communicating to another adult. Because we’re going to hurt their feelings, or upset them, or they’ll get angry, or whatever. And quite frankly; I get it, but at the same time, how important is it to you? And if it’s that important to you, then communicate as one adult to another and say, “When you do this it’s disrespectful to me, and it’s hurtful, and I don’t appreciate it.” I mean; quite frankly {laughs} that’s not something that’s easy to say and it’s certainly not easy to hear. But if you say how you feel when this person does this; because sometimes the other person doesn’t assign as much emotional value to it that you do in a certain way. To them, you’re being ridiculous, and to them, you making that choice also feels like an attack on their choices. And it’s not about them, it’s not. And they need to understand that this is not about you; it’s not about how you might feel or you might want to eat; do whatever you want. I’m not judging it. This is about me and the choices that I’m making for my children. They are my responsibility, and if you would like to proceed as a respectful adult, one to another, I need you to respect these boundaries.

And that’s not easy to say. And this is the project of my life; figuring out how to support people in communicating with each other about what’s important to us and holding a level of integrity for ourselves, saying what we mean and not skirting the issue because it’s uncomfortable. Get it out there; I promise you. I promise you that 90-99% of the time, when you communicate clearly and directly and say what you need to say, and do your best to not say it in a hurtful way but be extremely direct and say what you mean, you will come out on the other side feeling so much better. You’ll feel like you said what you needed to say, and that person is going to react how they react. You know; either she reacts negatively and gets all mad and is in a huff, or she keeps feeding your kid what she’s feeding your kid; make your choice.

I personally would rather upset another adult who is just not in a place where they’re being respectful than allow them to do something who hurts my kid who doesn’t really have; they don’t have the wherewithal to be making decisions in a certain way.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: You know what I mean? They might just be grabbing at something, and it’s not fair to put them in that situation. So when the kid is old enough for you to say; you know, remember when your skin was hurting; like you were just saying Liz. Remember when your skin was hurting; that happens when you eat too much of this kind of food. And if they can make that connection, if they’re old enough, then that’s a different situation. But still, I think we need to hold other people accountable and responsible for the things that they’re doing that affect us, and letting people off the hook and not communicating is the easy way to go, but it’s not effective.

Liz Wolfe: And you have a whole lifetime of interpersonal contact with this human. Let me add a wrinkle, though.

Diane Sanfilippo: Absolutely.

Liz Wolfe: There are parents that say; it’s the holidays, it’s a family get together; we’ll deal with the aftermath tomorrow. And that’s fine, too. A choice is a choice; it just has to be the one that you’re the most comfortable with, and you don’t get to complain about it the next day that you wish things were different if you haven’t done everything that you can to change things. But there’s also; if they're coming over to your house, you have every right to dictate what comes in your door. If you’re going to their house, and it’s a big gathering and everybody is bringing different things, you actually don’t have the right to dictate what goes in their door. You have to police your children, or you have to let it happen, in my opinion. Or you have to not go.

So those choices are really, really tough. I’m sure that I’m going to end up dealing with them quite frequently eventually, but so far, once or twice my kid has caught a glimpse of what somebody else is eating, and I’ll just say, “I won’t let you have that. I’m sorry sweetheart, I won’t let you have that.” These are your formative years and I want {laughs} all of your brain cells to be well nourished. I don’t really go that far.

Diane Sanfilippo: Do you say these words?

Liz Wolfe: No, no I don’t.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing} I was like, what?

Liz Wolfe: I know. I do say I won’t let you have that. This is a nana food, this is not a food for you. Or sometimes I’ve said; this is just for mommy, I won’t let you have it. And I’m sure that won’t work when she’s 3, but right now it works.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Exactly.

Liz Wolfe: Sometimes it’s too bad, so sad for somebody in this situation.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. You know one other thing that I wanted to point out that you mentioned; sometimes might say on the holiday; whatever we’ll deal with the aftereffects. I just want to put out there that if you’re dealing with this situation, and you go to have that direct compunction with the person, I think it’s the place to be really consistent with what you ask for, and not fluctuate on it. Because that’s what confuses other people. Because if you’re not consistent; I mean, imagine someone says they’re vegetarian, but every now and then they eat a burger when they’re at your house. Well, how much do you really believe that?

I’m not saying people shouldn’t be flexible if it’s not that big of a deal. But if it is a big deal, and you’re saying to this person, “I need you to respect me and my choices that I make for my children,” Then I personally think that being inconsistent sends the wrong message. Just like with parenting, right; part of what you’re trying to do is be really consistent. And if you’re not consistent with adults, it’s the same thing. People won’t believe you if you’re not consistent, so I do think there’s merit in consistency.

Liz Wolfe: That is a good point. I’m consistently inconsistent, so I think people have come to expect that from me.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Well, and you know; as the parent, you also get to choose that, right? If they say, “well last time you didn’t.” Well, that was last time. This is today. {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: That was last time, and I’m a psycho, so deal with it.

Diane Sanfilippo: That was before, this is now. Step off. Just kidding.

7. Spousal disagreement on how to feed the kids [40:42]

Liz Wolfe: Alright. So here’s another comment/question on coming to terms with what kids eat. This is from Julie. She writes, “Kids, husbands, and paleo. It’s a battle. I tend to be on the orthorexia side of things, though working very hard to live a balanced life. So when I want to take the kids gluten free, lower sugar, dairy free, or artificial food dye free, it’s seen as controlling, judgment, and trying to be a perfectionist. Kids have sensory processing disorder and huge behavioral issues. My 8-year-old was just told he can’t go back to school in January because he is unteachable; don’t get me started. The momma bear is coming out in me. So I would love to implement some nutritional changes. But for every study that says there is a link to behavior in gluten, etc., my husband will find a study saying the opposite. I can control what I eat, but how can couples come to terms with what the kids eat. Love you guys.”

I do not understand why people get all caught up in this study versus that study when it comes to something like clean food. How can somebody look at a label with a thousand ingredients that are all synthetic chemicals; swear to god, go to fricking Safeway and look at the ingredients on a champagne cake?

Diane Sanfilippo: I know; why are people trying to defend garbage food?

Liz Wolfe: What is the point?

Diane Sanfilippo: It’s because they feel personally attacked.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: By people saying they don’t want to eat it. Like all of this has nothing to do with the person making the healthy choice; it only has to do with the other person feeling judged and inferior and like their choices are bad or wrong. That’s all this is; that’s all all of this stuff is. You know what I mean?

I think what happens; you know we had vegetarians in our family growing up who neither of them are vegetarian anymore; and none of us cared. None of us pushed back on it, because we didn’t feel like; I didn’t feel like my choice was bad or wrong, so I didn’t push back on it or give them a hard time. It’s really just about how the other person feels and part of that can be put on us, right? The way that we communicate the choices we’re making, if we use words like, “Well that food is bad for you,” or if we say whatever it is; I don’t know what it is. There’s going to be something that is going to trigger that other person, and we can’t know all of that. You know, we can’t know all of people’s nonsense and emotions that different people attach to food.

But if your husband is feeling like he’s wrong for whatever he wants to do, then that’s where he’s coming from. It has almost nothing to do with the food; it’s about how he feels about you making these different choices and what that says about him. Do you know what I mean?

Liz Wolfe: Yeah, so it’s like you said before. Seek first to understand. So maybe the approach here is asking him a ton of really open minded compassionate questions. Do you think that you feel that way because of this? Ok, talk that out with me. Asking a ton of questions, seeking to understand, and maybe he can kind of see where this is coming from for himself before you take the step of saying; “Look, we’re going to do this for 3 months. It’s going to suck; the 8-year-old is not used to this. It’s going to be terrible; you can be mad at me, but you’re not going to change what we’re doing. Because we have to give this a try for our children.” That’s what I would do.

Diane Sanfilippo: You know {laughs} I think the bigger issue, like I was talking about earlier, honestly comes down to adults and communication and expectation and just personal development of the relationship that we have with our family. And in this case, this is a relationship with your husband who at some point, you’re not on the same page; you know what I mean? If you have been told that your kid can’t go back to school because he’s unteachable, and your husband is oppositional to you making nutritional changes, there is so much communication that needs to happen that has nothing to do with food. This only has to do with the fact that you guys need to be on the same page with doing what’s best for your children; and he can come out with every study in the book. You can tell him that.

You can say; “You can bring me whatever you want. But what I’m going to do is take care of my kids the best way I know how, and feed them real food, and see what happens. And if they don’t do better, then we can have another conversation at another point in time.” But you know they’re going to do better eating real food than eating a bunch of crap filled with food dyes and all kinds of other additives. You know point blank that the kid will do better on that; even if it’s just a little bit. Even if there is something else going on; or maybe there is something that needs to be diagnosed and worked out with a medical professional. We’re not saying that food is going to fix everything; but I know for sure that food is going to make a big difference, and getting that junk out is going to make a big difference.

So at this point, this is kind of a common thread of a lot of these issues. When it comes to coworkers, that’s different. {laughs} You didn’t make a choice to commit yourself to them for life. But when it comes to your spouse, you need to get down to the root of communication, understanding, being on the same page, and having your husband understand that this is not about him; it’s not an attack on him, this is not you saying his decisions for himself are bad or wrong or what have you. You need to get around that and you need to have conversation about it. And you can’t sweep it under the rug, and you can’t ignore it because it’s not going to go away, and it’s just going to make things in your relationship worse if you’re not communicating honestly and openly.

I’m going to start a whole other podcast about relationships {laughs}.

Liz Wolfe: You do not have the time for another podcast.

Diane Sanfilippo: I’m just kidding. But that’s what I think is really at the root of it. It’s not about the kids; it’s not even about their food. And I don’t know that in this case that as the wife, I don’t know that we are always qualified to get to the root of the problem. Like you were saying, ask questions. Well, maybe she doesn’t feel comfortable asking those questions; or maybe she feels like he won’t listen. So at that point, perhaps a third party needs to be involved. And if this is a matter of having your kid back in school because of behavioral issues are so huge that the school won’t have him, then that’s time to seek therapy. Whoever it is; a marriage counselor, whatever the case is going to be. Because it’s not really about the kid and the food; this is about you guys being on the same page and supporting the health of your kids.

I’m getting a little fired up as you can tell.

Liz Wolfe: I would love to see you with a couple of tiny humans that are you advocating for.

Diane Sanfilippo: Nope.

Liz Wolfe: That could be kind of cool.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: When you got married you have been an “everything on the table” person since I’ve met you.

Diane Sanfilippo: I know. That’s true.

Liz Wolfe: And some people, like you were just saying, need to go to therapy or need to have a third party available to help them put it all out on the table.

Diane Sanfilippo: And to be honest; in all of this that I’m talking about, dealing with friends and family and what not; to be completely honest, there are members of my family, and I’m not going to get into the nitty gritty of what side or whose relative or what have you; that don’t like me, and don’t understand me, and are not interested in having me in their life. So that’s a decision I have to make about living and being who I want to be, and knowing that that might alienate some people, and if they are adults who have the wherewithal to be making decisions and either choose to communicate with me or not, then that’s up to them. But I am very clear about the fact that I am not here to be a victim for anyone, and I am not here to be beat up or judged by people who don’t take the time to know what’s going on.

So I’m just putting it out there; me saying this doesn’t mean everything is perfect in my family. But it does mean that I’m happy and content with the relationships that I have because they’re honest and loving, and communicative. You know?

Liz Wolfe: And sometimes you really have to tear down the building to build it up the way you want it for the future. Good, good suggestions there.

8. Supportive, but not understanding the ‘lifestyle’ [48:51]

Liz Wolfe: Alright; hard time understanding the lifestyle. This is from Jacqueline. She says, “Most of my family and friends are super supportive, but they have a hard time understanding the lifestyle aspect of it all. I get a lot of ‘when your diet is done we have to blank.’ Or, ‘you’re so healthy all the time. It’s ok if you just have a little of this.’ And while that’s true, since I don’t have any known intolerances, I also choose when something non-paleo is or isn’t worth it, and they have a hard time understanding that. On the flip side, when some people have seen me eat, say a cookie, around the holidays, they feel the need to comment on how shocked they are. Very frustrating at times. I wish everyone would just keep their eyes on their own plates. I’ve also had people who are not health conscious at all make comments about how I’m so strict and need to stop obsessing over what I eat. And I don’t feel like I do at all. I know they mean well, but it’s certainly frustrating when you truly believe that what you’re doing is best for your health.”

Oh my gosh, can I say exactly, exactly what I would do if someone made a comment to me about this stuff? I’m like, I’m dropping myself in a middle of like a squadron holiday party where somebody comes over to me when I’m eating a sugar cookie; which I don’t really like sugar cookies. I’m actually just so grossed out by what is in most things that I won’t eat them. However, I did just have a holiday dinner out at a great restaurant, and I tried everybody’s dessert, so that was totally worth it. And I was with my friends; my friends who don’t question my choices who know that I’m being authentic here in this part of my life, and how having some bites of their damn desserts was the most authentic thing I could possibly have done in the moment.

So I’m picturing myself in a scenario like this, and somebody makes a comment about whatever the heck is on my plate. I take a bite, I give them kind of a little, “aww, you’re cute,” smile, pat them on the shoulder, and walk away.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: The end!

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: No one can make you feel inferior about your sugar cookie without your consent.

Diane Sanfilippo: That’s good.

Liz Wolfe: Pretty sure Michelle Obama told that.

Diane Sanfilippo: That’s a good; {laughs}.

Liz Wolfe: Just kidding; that as Eleanor Roosevelt. Any comments on this one Diane?

Diane Sanfilippo: I don’t know.

Liz Wolfe: What you would do is find a bar is do 5 dead hang pull ups and then tell them to give it a whirl.

Diane Sanfilippo: Get out of here. I guess it depends on who it is, you know.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: Like, do you care to engage and have the conversation, or you just want to let it go and ignore them? I think at this point, if it’s upsetting you, there’s a piece of me that wants you to feel like, just let it go. And I’m not going to bust out and sing whatever that movie {laughs} what’s the movie. Anyway, whatever. The song Let it Go. I just want to start singing that, but I don’t sing. I can sing; I just choose not to. And now I’m quoting Elf.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: But anyway. {laughs} But I think; you know I think it does depend. So Liz, what you said is perfect to do if you just don’t care and you’re not really going to see that person again, you know, if you’re like whatever. But you could totally just tell it like it is, and say “yeah, this is how I eat most of the time and if I feel like having this I have this. And it’s not about me being on a diet, and it’s not that I can’t; it’s totally a choice. So if I want to eat this and enjoy it, then I do it.”

And if you wish that they would keep their eyes on their own plate, you could say those words. “Why don’t you just keep your eyes on your own plate?” I mean, turn it into a school yard if that’s what they’re going to do. {laughs} I don’t know, it just depends on how much of a bully you want to be back to them, because they’re basically just bullying you. Again; what is with adults not just being adults? Everyone wants to prod at each other. I have plenty of thoughts at the gym when people are doing weird BS stuff, or just sitting there not actually working out; but do I say it to them? No. Because this is not what adults do. {laughs} It’s like, if I want to be a jerk in my own mind, fine. But you don’t just walk up to someone and say, “Maybe you should stop texting for 30 minutes and just start lifting some weights. That’s how it works.” But anyway, I digress.

But I do think that if people don’t understand it; I don’t know, maybe you could ask them. “Is there something you would like me to explain about the fact that I don’t live this way as a diet, and it’s not about me doing this for 21 days, or 30 days, or even a few months? This is about me finding what’s workable for me in the long term and for me if I feel like having a sugar cookie because I just want to enjoy it, then I’m going to do it, and it really shouldn’t be of concern to you. It’s not about you. And move on. I don’t know. That’s what I think.

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9. #LizTalksLittles: Television [54:35]

Diane Sanfilippo: Alright Liz; do you have a little #Liztalkslittles for us?

Liz Wolfe: Well I kind of do. It’s nothing earth shattering, but I am certainly a parent that tries really hard not to do any television, or media, but it is hard and every once in a while it slides in there. And forgive me for not being the perfect paleo parent; I’m just not. I know some people that are. So that’s my little disclaimer. To the degree that you can, of course stay away from screens, and television, and shows and all of that stuff.

But, if you’re like me and you’re a real person. Just kidding. That was mean; I meant that as a joke, I wasn’t trying to be mean. But if you’re like me and every once in a while you turn something on, I highly recommend the show Chuggington, which is on Netflix. Obviously I’ve got an almost 2-year-old so it’s not appropriate for all age groups. But as much as I want to love Sesame Street; the Sesame Street of my childhood is gone. It’s just a bunch of shrieking; and I can’t handle it.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing}

Liz Wolfe: So, basically the one show we do, and I’m guessing the only thing that she knows comes out of the television machine is Chuggington. It’s really cute; it has a fun little theme song. It’s very innocuous; there’s no propaganda, there’s no shrieking, so it’s really fun. Chuggington on Netflix. {singing} Chuggington! Hat tip to my friend Liz for introducing me to it.

Diane Sanfilippo: The name of that show sounds amazing.

Liz Wolfe: {singing} Chugga, chugga, chugga! Chugga, chugga, chugga! Chuggington. {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Appropriate for small children and college kids.

Liz Wolfe: Small children and adults. Take a shot every time the bell rings. Just kidding.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: Alright, well that will do it for this week. You can find me, Liz, at http://realfoodliz.com/ and you can find Diane at http://dianesanfilippo.com. Join our email lists for free goodies and updates that you don’t find anywhere else on our website or on the podcast. While you’re on the internet, leave us an iTunes review please. Please leave us an iTunes review; we appreciate every single one. See you next week.