Podcast Episode #49: Paleo Beauty-Cast, Part 1: Hair, Skin, Hormones & More!

LIZ WOLFE: Hey everyone, I'm Liz. I'm the nutritional therapy practitioner behind CaveGirlEats.com. I'm here with Diane Sanfilippo, who is a certified nutrition consultant and CHEK Holistic Lifestyle Coach and the woman behind BalancedBites.com. Actually, I feel like I'm basically reading your resume at this point, Diane, because you've got a book that's just going like gangbusters, Practical Paleo, podcasts, I mean, like is there anything that you're not doing right now?

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Resting. [laughs]

LIZ WOLFE: What?

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Resting.

LIZ WOLFE: Resting. Whatever, you're at the Shor-ah. You're down the Shor-ah.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: I am. So we're on episode 49, and we missed a week, so apologies, but we-I was at AHS. It was kind of a really, really hectic week, so we were like, you know, let's make sure that the quality is still there and just bring it on next week.

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah. [laughs] About that…

DIANE SANFILIPPO: About that?

LIZ WOLFE: The best quality issue. Just kidding.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Well, so what I realized is, and we'll celebrate more week 52, but I did realize it's been about a year since I forced you to be my friend, just so you know.

LIZ WOLFE: Oh my God. You mean…? [laughs] You mean, I've been chained to you for a year?

DIANE SANFILIPPO: [laughs] A whole year.

LIZ WOLFE: I wasn't ready for it, my friend. That's crazy.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: My skin has never been better, so thanks.

LIZ WOLFE: Oh, you're welcome. [laughs] That's hilarious. Yeah, so that's…well, first, that's a good lead in, actually. So maybe you want to say that nice thing about me again, how your skin has never been better since you met me 'cause that's a good lead in to our Paleo Beauty podcast. But first I kind of want to hear a little about AHS, if you have any impressions on the whole deal.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: So really quickly. First of all, I would definitely recommend that people tune into Robb Wolf's podcast. He did a rundown/review of some of the kind of bigger talks, and his takeaways are pretty much the same as what I took away. And usually what I try and listen for at, you know, these events and listening to kind of the higher level science, I try and tune in for the items that you and I will bring either to the podcast or to our workshops, and kind of boiling it down for what does it mean for everyone else. Because it's a lot of like ruminating over different science and how things are working in the body, but when it comes to the actual, you know, what do we do with this information, not much is really changed in sort of a grand scheme.
There were a few really good talks. There was one that I really liked from Dr. Peter Attia. I wasn't sure how to say his name, and then I heard Robb saying it pretty much that way, and his was on cholesterol. And there's some little nuggets in there, so maybe we'll talk a little bit more about that when we address it in some questions, but basically he was just kind of going over some of the confusing points around particle size and particle counts and all of that, and really just talking about how knowing just the pure count of particles may not always be as important as knowing like what they're carrying and it's very involved, so I definitely recommend that people check it out on the Ancestry Foundation website when they're available. It'll probably take a couple of months because the talks are pretty involved and they have slides that they're putting together with them. But check out the talk and kind of watch that. And really what I kind of got from it was that we don't always learn that much from numbers. And sometimes there are deeper numbers that we need to find out and even at the end of the day, if we know our cholesterol, even if we know our LDL particle counts and particle sizes, it doesn't necessarily mean that that's the problem. It's usually just a symptom of something else, so it's relevant information to have. There's' more and more information that, you know, hopefully, we'll come out with more advanced testing because the standard, you know, total cholesterol, HDL, LDL. The standard counts that we get on that stuff are really not that relevant because you can absolutely have somebody who's very healthy with very high cholesterol, you know, according to the standard medical measures, and someone who has much lower levels total, but perhaps the way they're carrying it in their bloodstream, what the particles are like, that may be a bigger picture story. So just little things like that.
And Mat LaLonde's talk was awesome, talking about the nutrient density of different foods, and he basically kind of squashed the ANDI score, which is what Whole Foods uses, which basically blows out of proportions certain nutrients that are not essential. So his analysis was really cool. It was unfortunate that the way that the analysis had to work was that it only looked at essential nutrients and it had to sort of factor in or factor out if more information wasn't available. So it really kind of came down to the most nutrient dense foods that we have available to us are animal foods. They are often organ meats, not just muscle meats.

LIZ WOLFE: Woo hoo!

DIANE SANFILIPPO: I know you and I talk-yeah, you and I talk about that a lot, and that doesn't mean that people need to be eating tons of organ meats, but it's almost like a message that a little bit goes a long way, so just getting some of that stuff in will really serve people well. And then a really interesting point. 2 things that came out of Mat's talk that I think people kind of rallied around. One was that grains and legumes are actually very nutrient dense, but they're very nutrient dense when they're in their raw state, and he's, you know, sort of propositioning that perhaps those who are turning to the information about grains and legumes holding a lot of nutrient value are looking at them in their raw state, but the sort of catch there is that they're not edible for humans in their raw state. We need to either soak, sprout, or ferment them. We need to be cooking them. In some way, they need to be cooked, and their nutrient density is greatly reduced when they're cooked. And all that makes sense because that's the reproductive force of the plant, so that's what the plant needs to be able to kind of get in the ground and then grow itself. The same way like eggs are super nutrient dense because they're, you know, the reproductive forces of the chicken or the duck or whatever it is. So really interesting on that count. And then also what was really funny, of course, as somebody who loves bacon watching, where bacon sort of fell, and raw bacon was less nutrient dense, but then when you cooked it, and the fat kind of dripped off, what's left is actually pretty nutrient dense food. According to the handful of nutrients that he was measuring, and it was really just essential nutrients, essential fatty acids, some vitamins and minerals, and bacon fat was not a very nutrient dense food, and people were like, oh, so we shouldn't be using bacon fat? And I was kind of sitting like, who thought it was nutrient dense? I was like [laughs] I don't know…

LIZ WOLFE: And who cares? If it tastes good, every once in awhile, eat some. If you want to cook your eggs in bacon fat, do it. Jeez.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: It was just really funny to me because I was like, well, according to what he was measuring, essential fatty acids, it does have some omega-6. It doesn't have much else. It's very high in monounsaturated fats and has some saturated fats, neither of which were measured, and that's fine. They're not essential, meaning, we don't need to eat them. Our body can manufacture if we need them. But it was just really funny to me because I was like, I don't who was eating this thinking it was nutrient dense. Coconut oil is not nutrient dense, either. So that's not the point of those fats. The point of the fats is to help make the nutrients more available to our body, especially the fat soluble ones. So the fats themselves are not really carrying the micronutrients as much as you know, some proteins and carbohydrates are. Other than of course, like grass-fed…

LIZ WOLFE: And that's exactly why we care.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: That's exactly it. Yeah, they serve a purpose.

LIZ WOLFE: People aren't looking for nutrients, like, I mean, people should always be at like, yeah, we love the idea of nutrient density, but like we can think about coconut oil as being valuable for the medium chain triglycerides and lauric acid, which is anti-viral.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah.

LIZ WOLFE: Lard is particularly rich in vitamin D, so just because you know, bacon fat isn't so one thing or another, that doesn't mean, you know, that lard doesn't have some value in the human diet. You know, there's just so many cool

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah.

LIZ WOLFE: ancestral foods that are valued-valuable for different reasons. Like the nutrient density argument is really cool, but it's not the only argument.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Right, I think his main thing was that he was trying to just show like you know, if we're actually measuring nutrient density in a very fair way, because you know how Mat is. He's not out to prove he's right. As a scientist, he really just wants to see what is the science, you know. What does the information tell us? What does the data tell us?

LIZ WOLFE: Mm-hmm.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: You know, I really felt like he did a fair job at that, and it wasn't like, you know, and actually fruit came up pretty low compared to vegetables, and then obviously compared to animal foods. So that was really interesting. And this was just based on the data he could get from-I think it's from the USDA database. So we don't even really know grass-fed meat, as it's not even there. So well, maybe not obviously. I don't think that that stuff measured in the same way. You know, I think he was just trying to present something different from the obviously sort of vegetarian slanted views, where they're not measuring some of the essential nutrients that animal foods might carry, but then they're heavily weighting things like carotenoids, which are obviously going to be very rich in, you know, plants, but obviously then vitamin A, pre-formed vitamin A, retinol, is very rich in animal foods, not really in plants, so that's kind of…I thought that was an interesting point, too, because when you see those measures or the scales, like the ANDI Scale specifically at Whole Foods, they're not the only ones using it, but that's the one they're using. Understanding what's being measured to then grade the food is really, really important. So that was kind of my-

LIZ WOLFE: Great.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Those are my kind of two more favorite talks. I really loved Chris Kresser' s talk on iron overload. It's a lot of stuff that I don't really work with, particularly, but just very interesting, and, as always, who else….Joel Salatin. I mean, you know Joel. You've high fived Joel. [laughs]

LIZ WOLFE: I have high fived Joel.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Tried to?

LIZ WOLFE: I spent the two most difficult days of my life working on Polyface Farm. It is the hardest job ever on the planet.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah.

LIZ WOLFE: And I will…I will defend farming, especially that kind of farming, whether or not people are okay with, you know, a little bit of supplemental feed here and there, I will defend the way Joel does business…

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah.

LIZ WOLFE: Just having seen and understanding how it fits into a modern lifestyle.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Absolutely.

LIZ WOLFE: That's for another day.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, he was…he was a really phenomenal speaker, and I loved his talk. It was very, you know, interesting. Nothing-he didn't really say anything that we didn't know, but he was really-it was a nice little, almost like an end of the day keynote and also just a nice, little motivation. And then your point about the farm. I did get to visit Diana Rodgers' farm, Clark Farm. Her husband runs it with, I think, another family. He's the manager, and that was really interesting, and I wrote a post about that, so I won't talk about it too much. So people can go ahead to the blog and read my post, kind of my recap of that experience, but we will post a link to their on farm on here because she held the sustainable dinner in the barn, and it was absolutely amazing. Not just the food, but, you know, the entire event. The way they ran it. The decor. We were in the barn with goats like right next to us, which was really cool. They were totally adorable, and it was just an awesome event, and I was really kind of sad that I know that AHS plans on moving again. Like they just don't plan on keeping it in the same place, but it was kind of a bummer because I think it would be so amazing to just do this big barn dinner every year.

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Because it was just an awesome, an awesome thing, yeah. So that's it on the updates. At least about AHS. And other than that, the book released on Tuesday, and then AHS was immediately following that, so I haven't been on the podcast since then, and it's been amazing. Like I just…I can't-I can't even really fathom, you know, the response. I would never have imagined the response that people are having to this book. I mean, of course, you always hope that people love it. You know, you pour yourself into something, and hope that they love it. But for people to just be, you know, comments that I've been getting are so awesome. Just say, wow, I'm blown away, like this is so much more than I expected, and I'm just thrilled to hear that and excited and really excited that people are digging into the meal plans and the recipes and kind of learning something new, so that's just been really exciting.

LIZ WOLFE: I said in my blog of you, of your book, Diane, and I'm not saying this because you're my friend, because I would say this no matter what, there's really no book like your book out there. Period. Like at all. There's just not…your book and Bill and Hayley's cookbook, what they put together for people. I mean, literally at this point, they're the only two I even recommend to my clients. That's just one of the first things that I do is this book and this book. Make It Paleo and Practical Paleo. That's it. You guys have pretty much done my job for me, so thanks for that. I'll continue charging people to tell them to buy your books.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: [laughs] Awesome.

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Cool, well, any other updates? You have any other updates on your end?

LIZ WOLFE: I don't think so. I've been a little bit out of the loop. I had planned on going to AHS, but at the last minute, did not. Not for the same reason as last year, which was that I missed my flight to California. [laughs]

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Oh, that was awful.

LIZ WOLFE: Oh, it was so sad. It turned out okay, but it's been, you know, somewhat tough summer for me, and last couple months, and I'm really grateful for everybody's support. I share a little bit of personal information, but, you know, not a whole lot. I'll talk about, you know, things that are relevant to the whole Paleosphere, but I was really, really blessed to have my husband come home from deployment earlier than expected, so he came home over the weekend of AHS, and I always, you know, family first, so I'm just really happy that he's home and just life is back to its normal rhythm, so…

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yay. Definitely awesome. Awesome. Well, we missed you for sure, but I'm glad that you have your family time.

LIZ WOLFE: All right…yeah, very glad to wrap up the summer with the hubby. He's a good dude. I like him a lot, so…[laughs] And I like to watch him do yard work, since I didn't do any while he was gone at all.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: [laughs] You need some cows to come eat that grass.

LIZ WOLFE: I know, that's what I'm saying. He was…a couple years ago, he was talking about how he wanted to get backyard chickens, and I remember being like, NO! We can't do that. We can't do that. And now that's all I want in my entire life is backyard chickens. Yeah, he was right.
Anyway, all right, twenty minutes later, jump into some questions. So this is the Paleo Beauty Cast, and when we first put this document together to get ready for this podcast, I was thinking, oh, we're going to talk about make-up, and how to wash my hair, and how I dye my hair and such things, and so of course, I left this to the last minute, and having a look at all of this, I'm going to do my best to answer these questions to the best of my ability, but these are not necessarily just about washing hair and putting on make-up. These are a little bit more in depth than that, so I'll do my best and as usual, I'm sure you have plenty of enlightening information, so…
First question.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Do you want to read our little disclaimer? We didn't do that yet.

LIZ WOLFE: Oh yes, you're on the other side of the Google Document just highlighting things.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah.

LIZ WOLFE: So remember everyone, that the materials and content contained in this podcast are intended as general information only, and are not to be considered a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. You all thought we forgot, didn't ya?

DIANE SANFILIPPO: [laughs]

LIZ WOLFE: We never forget the disclaimer. All right. First question on hair loss. Excuse me.
Sarah says: “Hi ladies! I have a question about hair loss/thinning hair. I’m 25 years old, and unfortunately have really thin hair. I would say it’s always been thinner than ‘normal’ hair, but that it has probably gotten worse as I’ve gotten older. It’s not like chunks are coming out at once, I just shed quite frequently. I’m sure it’s a genetic thing as my mom and grandma have dealt with this too. Is there anything nutritionally I can do in addition to the supplements I’m already taking? I know hair loss reversal probably isn’t possible but if I can do anything now I’d love to know what would help. Thanks!
Eat Paleo (grain free most of the time, dairy free occasionally) for about 1 year. I would like to start CrossFit but am currently making do at a standard gym with some resistance training and cardio. So I still have some excess weight to lose ~20 lbs or so to be at my optimum weight- current weight around 160. My sleep is generally okay- I get 8 hours per night. I take the green pastures FCLO/Butter blend and use the beauty balm as well. I also take biotin, an iron supplement and evening primrose oil (the last based off a recommendation from my MD regarding hair loss). I recently (about 3 months ago) went off the pill and got an IUD- which I am loving by the way. I know hormonal changes can throw off hair growth, but should I expect 3 months off the pill to be enough time to normalize the hormone levels in my body that would affect this?”
I don't have a whole lot to say about this, Diane, but I do want to throw in really quickly. I had an email semi-recently from a listener about the copper IUD, and I think we're going to address this more eventually the issue of what kind of birth control is optimal and for whom, that type of stuff. I just wanted to throw that in there because I do think it warrants a little bit more discussion. I don't want everybody running out and getting the IUD without really deeply considering that, but it sounds like Sarah really likes it, so that's great. But we'll talk about that more at a later date.
The other thing I wanted to throw out there was, well, I guess I'll talk about this a little bit later. The idea of how to normalize hormone levels in the body and all that good stuff, which can be really critical and [xxx] the birth control pill can kind of normalize hormones artificially in the short term, and so this idea of managing hormones can really kind of be like a nebulous, like just kind of area, I don't know, kind of a floaty, difficult area to deal with. So I think it's important just to stress again that while we're trying to speak to this generally, it's not easy. It's..these hormonal issues are tough. The only other thing is there's a hair supplement-not a hair supplement, but some kind of a supplement, I think, by Thorne that may specifically be like a biotin and a couple other synergists that are supposed to be good for hair, but I don't know too much about it. Anyway, that's all I had to say. What's your take on this?

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Well, so for starters, she mentioned in like our extra notes, which we, you know, just to remind people, we ask people what their question is and then we ask them for a lot more information because often, a lot more comes through when we get sort of the follow up of like what they're eating, what their lifestyle is like, and supplements and all of that. So just to get a question without any background isn't always that helpful. So since she mentioned in her extra notes, I'd be really curious as to why she's taking an iron supplement. For a lot of people, low iron isn't really a product of not enough iron intake dietarily. Supplementing with iron is pretty delicate, so I definitely recommend to some of Chris Kresser' s recent radio shows. It's the Revolution Health Radio Show. It's free on iTunes also, so probably…I think it's like the alternative health category. And he discusses iron, iron overload, and anemia, so it may not be related to the hair loss, but it certainly could be. If you're getting too much iron or if your body's not making proper use of the iron, it could cause some sort of cellular malfunction metabolically that might impair your hair growth. So this is really stuff where you know, it's tough to try and supplement with certain…I would guess, I guess I would call them like more potent supplements, like a mineral like iron because it can have a really strong effect on the rest of your body. People can be really tired without enough or with too much you can get really tired. And that might not even be, I feel tired. That could be literally at the cellular level and that could be something that gets rooted in this whole autoimmune response.
So all that being said, hair loss and growth is, from my understanding, often not an immediate thing. So while many hair loss issues are autoimmune, so like alopecia, for example, some are results of acute stressors. They may not be actually the result-they may not actually result in hair loss for months after the stressors. So I've seen this happen before. I've actually had some friends deal with it, just anecdotally. You know, they're talking to their physician or whoever, even a dermatologist who says it's really common that an acute stressor now, 3 to 6 months from now, may result in hair loss. So it doesn't sound like this is exactly what's happening with her. It doesn't sound like an acute thing. It sounds a little bit more chronic and consistent, That being said, depending on the type of person that you are, the way that you handle stress, this could be something that's manifesting in the hair loss. And you know, I might expect to see somebody who's dealing with hormonal imbalances or stress and that gets reduced and kind of alleviated. It could take months. 3 months, 6 months, I don't know how long it could take all that stuff to sort of rebalance, but I wouldn't expect it to be that immediate if I were working with her as a client sort of one on one. So the reason that I mention all this stuff around stress and autoimmunity, because when it comes to hair loss, you know, the only real control you might have is diet and lifestyle. So reducing stress to make sure that when we talk about stress, it's mostly because at some level, it's either disrupting your hormones, because stress hormones are going to override your body's need to, you know, accurately balance any other hormones that you have. Because you need stress hormones to live, you don't need to reproduce. So your body will definitely funnel production of hormones to the stress hormones. So that's one factor. And the other is, the more stress you kind of have internally, the more open your gut becomes.
So we talk about leaky gut on this podcast a lot. If you want to go back and listen to some other episodes about leaky gut and autoimmunity specifically, I think there are some where we talk about Hashimoto's where I talk a lot about like what's happening with autoimmunity. But essentially, if what's happening is the lining of your small intestine is irritated, and that can be happening from food, but it can also be happening from stress, the tight junctions between the cells that line your small intestine increase in stress, increase in cortisol response, tend to loosen that stuff. That's not really just something that's based on the food that we're eating. Stress reduction is huge. I might recommend for her a strict autoimmune protocol. If this is something that she's really concerned about, and you really want to find out like what's my absolute baseline for foods I know I do well with and I feel great with. Getting rid of all potential, you know, foods that might have an immune response as we eat them, and that's not just grains, legumes, and dairy. It also includes things like nuts and seeds, eggs, and then nightshade vegetables. And generally nightshades really don't have as much to do with people who are experiencing things other than joint pain, but you just really never know. Because if it's a serious enough thing that you're like, you know what, I really want to find out if there's something in my diet that's doing this, an autoimmune protocol again is a grain, legume, dairy, eggs, nuts, seeds, and nightshade-free meal plan. So that sounds a little bit overwhelming. I did write up a meal plan for this in Practical Paleo because it sounds so overwhelming, and it's, you know, it is hard. It's definitely hard when you go out to eat, especially with the spices because nightshades, like paprika's a pepper, that one's really tough. I don't think grains, legumes, dairy, nuts and seeds are that hard to avoid personally. The eggs and the nightshades are definitely-they require a little bit more planning, but I think with this kind of issue, it's worthwhile to kind of dig in and find out what might be at the root of it.
And honestly, it could be any of these foods that irritate your system. It could be more than these foods. It's really hard to know, but these are the ones that we know are the most irritating, I would try that for sure. And I wouldn't really worry about things like being low carb, high carb. I know she's not really asking too much about it, but I might in fact ask her to raise her carb intake to something like sweet potatoes or squash, winter squash, that kind of thing that will have a little bit more carb intake for her. I don't know that this would have anything to do with her thyroid, but if it's in her family , it could be from low thyroid, just a subclinical or you know level of low thyroid that perhaps a standard blood panel, you know the doctor doesn't note it as low. But I would definitely get some thyroid testing done and just see if there's anything going on there because hair loss is a typical side effect of low thyroid function. But again, your doctor may see that it's in range, but if I were to look at that in a functional range, it may be low.
So just all these different pieces to look at and also understanding that whenever birth control is in the mix, as Liz mentioned, we kind of don't know what's happening with your actual hormone status. So if you were off of birth control and just went back on it for your skin, is that what? Oh no, wait, she wasn't talking about that. She was talking about it for her hair loss.

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: I wouldn't necessarily-see, 'cause we have two people who went on and off the Pill, right? In this episode.

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah…

DIANE SANFILIPPO: I read that twice. You know, so my same kind of…yeah, my same kind of advice on these things though is that it really can take a awhile for that stuff to re-regulate. And it be may be way more than 3 months. I hate to tell you, but I know a lot of women who've gone off of birth control and have not even had a period for at least a year sometimes.

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: So it affects people really differently, depending on which ones you're taking and your own system. I've seen that too where sometimes it takes like a really long time to kind of get normalized.

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah, and another thing is so many different types of birth control are different, and I'll talk about this a little bit later as far as like hormones that they're pushing around, it's fascinating, and it took me probably a year to even figure out certain things that were going on with my body that were probably a direct result of just having switched from one birth control to another. This is probably a decade ago. But [laughs] they're all-they're given out like candy, I think, without any kind of real…I don't know, give us a pamphlet or something, you know. As women, if we're going to take these little hormone pills that are so varied in composition, I just feel like somebody give us a, you know, a packet with a staple and just a couple pages, I don't know. Something.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Right.

LIZ WOLFE: That is no joke. Profound words from Liz. Give us a pamphlet. It's no joke.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: All right, give us a pamphlet. All right. That's it on that one. It's all I've got.

LIZ WOLFE: Next up. I'm having a little bit of phone interference. I think we've got a storm rolling in, but I think I'm doing okay right now. All right, second question from Lucy on cystic pimples: “Hi Ladies, Thanks so much for all the info you share with us, I have truly learned so much from you both. Based on your suggestion, I started taking the Green Pastures Fermented Cod Liver/butter oil blend about a month ago. I’m 29 and have dealt with acne since I was a teenager, although since eating paleo it has been pretty much under control. Most people would say I have nice skin although I still see imperfections, of course. When I do get pimples they are usually small. However, about a year and a half ago I started taking regular Carlson’s fish oil. I noticed that while taking it I would get a big cystic pimple on my chin every couple of weeks. So I stopped the fish oil, and the problem disappeared. Unfortunately since taking the Fermented Cod Liver/butter oil I have another huge cystic pimple on my chin. It’s pretty disgusting. Otherwise, my skin looks great, I have noticed my skin tone has evened out a lot. I don’t know if I should stop taking the Fermented Cod Liver/butter oil because I don’t eat organ meats and don’t really like oily fish so I am probably lacking in those nutrients. Any advice? I am embarrassed to go to work today looking like this! Oh, I use the oil cleansing method on my face which has also made a big difference in my skin. Thanks so much! Aloha!”
So just looking at the everything else that she provided for us, her diet looks super solid, so I wouldn't say there's a whole lot of you know, things that we need to say about that. 6 to 8 hours of sleep a night. Want me to just launch into it, Diane?

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, go for it.

LIZ WOLFE: All right, so a friend of mine, a colleague of mine who, incidentally, is the founder of the First 20, an organization that I work with, he said to me the other day, 9 women…I think he said, 9 women can't make a baby in one month. So which took me like 5 minutes and then it clicked, and I thought it was really funny. But the idea is, when it comes to a lot of these issues, these hormonal/gut/inflammatory issues, the idea is you really can't cheat. You can't speed up a process that takes time. And not that this is Lucy's problem at all, but it's an important point to make before I start going into a few other things. Taking these things out, whether you're talking about acne, PCOS, whatever, it takes a lot of patience, and it takes being patient with the manipulation of variables that have to occur to make progress.
Now acne has the gift of often, I think, being an interaction between inflammatory conditions, hormonal issues, gut issues, and those are all really in depth discussions. And, you know, again, maybe we can get into those even more in another podcast, but the way I generally tackle things when people come to me with skin issues is first to look at gut healing. It's not the end all, be all, but it can be very important in changing the inflammatory landscape as well as just making sure that what you're taking in is actually being routed and used appropriately. That we're not dealing with any mineral deficiencies, nutrient deficiencies, that the gut flora is well-balanced, that the gut is pretty iron clad, and there are no kind of residual issues from poor diet in the past. I think that's an important foundation to set. But it's not everything. I think vitamin A, like from the cod liver oil and some organ meats is incredibly important. Vitamin D as well. People, let's see, like Stephanie Seneff and Dr. Thomas Cowan, I think, both have been kind of referred to vitamin D as the skin internal kind of antibiotic, which I think is really interesting. Sulfur is important. We also, for some people need to look at bromide toxicity, an imbalance between say, too much fluoride and too little iodine. I think that's something that our buddy, Stefani, over at Paleo For Women has talked about.
Other things that I'll look, and this is something that is really personal to me, and this is not necessarily everything I'm saying what Lucy's is going. I just am trying to kind of provide a broad, I don't know, blanket type of response so people maybe can say, oh, that sounds like me! Or that doesn't sound like me. That type of stuff, but looking at something that was really personal to me back in the day, back in my birth control days, was looking at the androgenic environment. So you have all of these different types of, this is going back to birth control pills, but you also have all these different types of hormones. Androgens, and things like high androgen birth control, which I was on for years, can really drive acne in women, and I had no idea. And there was no information available to me at the time for me to figure this out. I…and Google wasn't even that good, remember. I feel like I was probably like poking around on Prodigy when I was thinking about this stuff, but high androgen birth control can do some really, really wonky things to people.
Now, when I'm hearing what Lucy's saying here, I'm thinking, okay, well maybe there's something kind of going on within that omega-6 elongation pathway where she needs a little bit of DGLA or something, because as she said, when she removed that fish oil, things improved. So you know, doctor, when I do this, this hurts, so stop doing that. And there is a little bit of EPA and DHA. In my opinion, the appropriate amounts of EPA and DHA in the cod liver oil/butter oil blend. Neither you nor I, Diane, recommend taking isolated fish oil, which again, we'll talk about that in the future. We have a blog post in the works kind of explaining why. But to the degree that we need these polyunsaturated fatty acids, they are present in the cod liver oil/butter oil blend. And the fact that maybe taking that blend is driving this same kind of, I don't know, physiology, maybe we need to look at that omega-6 vs. omega-3, those elongation pathways and how those are working in her body. And I think that…I think that Cordain maybe wrote a little bit about that and his dietary cure for acne, I'm not sure. It's been so long since I read that.
So anyway, I basically didn't answer her question at all, and I'm going to turn it over to you now that I've rambled for however long.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Thanks.

LIZ WOLFE: I'm rusty right now. [laughs]

DIANE SANFILIPPO: I don't know…her food is like super clean. I don't even know if she ever really gets like any dairy at all. She's saying coconut milk with her coffee. It really looks like squeaky clean. I know that, you know, just for me, and I think there's a couple of…we have a couple of acne questions, so I'm like trying to remember who I wrote this for in my notes here, but I don't know. It's just the one sort of cystic piece of acne. It's really hard to know what's causing that. Like this was not really helping her at all. But I feel like I dealt with this stuff, and I know we

LIZ WOLFE: It's so individual.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: It really is, and I…we have another question on acne and birth control, which is why I'm getting so confused as to who we're answering. I remember it took me a really long time, and you know, I've worked with a bunch of people. The same way you have, Liz, where it's like, almost at the end of it, you're almost not even sure what fixed it because you had to try so many things, and then whatever you're doing at whatever point, it's working. You just kind of go with it, and sometimes you can't really pinpoint the one thing. Because maybe it's not one thing, right? Like maybe it's a combination of things. Maybe it's not just the fish oil situation. So I don't know. I would maybe stop taking it for awhile again. If it seems like this worked with-this happened with the Carlson's, and now it's happening with the fermented cod liver oil, maybe just get the butter oil capsule. Take those for the fat soluble vitamins you're getting there, so you're getting that butter oil without the dairy because it doesn't seem like that would be provoking it, but maybe make that change. Just change one thing at a time, though, to see what's happening. If you can. That's what I would really do is if I had that response to the fish oil because I think fish oil made me break out and then the fermented cod liver oil does not do that to me, so it absolutely like every morning I wake up and my skin is always better. So but I notice it if I go back and eat some dairy, just a couple of days on vacation in a week, random stuff will flare up again. So you know, it doesn't sound like it's the dairy that's doing it for her, but you could be right about the balance of the omega-3/omega-6. I've definitely seen, especially with female hormones, like the DGLA, the evening primrose oil, or borage oil, which you wouldn't normally think, you know, you want to supplement with an omega-6, but the reality is it is still an essential fat, and what happens in the chain of both omega-3 and omega-6 is that your body may not be converting some dietary omega-6 into the end usable form, so when you take the supplement of either the borage oil or the evening primrose oil, it's much closer to that end usable form, so that your body is getting that essential fat. So that may be useful, and I would go really easy on it. I would find, and I think Barlean's has one in evening primrose, and I would just take like a really, you know, one capsule, even if it says two on the bottle, just take one a day for a couple of days, and maybe like one twice a day, and just kind of see what's happening with that. But if you notice it happened with the Carlson's and you're noticing it happening with the other fish oil, that's really what I would point to, and just remove it, and then see, and then try adding some other things. Kind of my best guess on that one.

LIZ WOLFE: For her very specific question and what we were able to pull from that in regards to fish oil, EPA, DHA effects, that would be my response, if that were me in that situation.

DIANE SANFILIPPO:Yeah.

LIZ WOLFE: But like this is just so individual and so many different people have different experiences and different things driving their experiences, that I don't want folks to think that that's, you know, broadly applicable.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, and you know, she also mentions in some of her background information, and we didn't read all of it, that she sometimes has nightmares and anxiety that get in the way of sleep, and sometimes takes some like an anti-anxiety medication to help fall asleep. I don't know if that's something she did before or not, but sometimes things that you do now don't work in your body the same way they did before. So what I mean by that is maybe it's not the cod liver oil now, but maybe it's the whatever is stressing your body that could be just making your body more intolerant to certain things. It's so hard to know. But maybe she's got some moving pieces now that to try and get back to us. We'll see what happens.

LIZ WOLFE: Yup.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Acne scars, number three?

LIZ WOLFE: Number 3. Caleena asks: “Acne Scars: How do I get rid of them? I’ve considered laser resurfacing to get rid of the evidence of 7 years of ranking acne, however, the thing that turns me off to it (other than the cost) is the dose of antibiotics given after the procedure. Since listening to paleo podcasts and blogs I’ve learned you shouldn’t take antibiotics unless absolutely necessary. Would this be a case in which it’s ok? I worry it’s not right for me because I’ve had to take quite a bit of antibiotics for recurring UTIs in the past year. I feel like I’ve already upset my gut bacteria enough with the antibiotics I’ve taken and the constant attempts to replenish them with probiotic foods. But, I really hate the scars on my face! Now that my skin is finally clear (hallelujah!), I'd really like to make my skin as smooth as possible.
I wash my face with a mix of castor oil and a few drops of tea tree oil every night and exfoliate with a warm wash cloth. I follow up with jojoba oil as a moisturizer.” This is exactly what I do. “In the morning I only rinse my face with water and will sometimes put more jojoba oil on if I feel my face is dry (most days I don't need it). I will use “Elta MD” sunscreen if I plan to be out in the sun (still haven’t found it convenient to switch to making my own natural SPF) but on days I only expect to be in the sun 30min max, I skip the sunscreen. I don’t wear makeup, except on special occasions when I wear bare essentials mineral make-up. I eat sauerkraut almost daily, but the most significant improvement in my skin came after I stopped using hormonal birth control (surprisingly), switched to the copper IUD, and started supplementing with Green Pastures fermented cod liver oil/butter oil blend.”Did I write this, Diane?

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Who's this from?

LIZ WOLFE: Caleena. Caleena, you and me, girl. “(I say those all together because they all occurred in the same week and I’m not sure which is responsible for my skin improvement…nor do I care…I’m just stoked on my skin's improvement!) I have yet to try Liz’s recommendation for Brewer's Yeast…but things seem to be going well as far as breakouts go…I just need advice on eliminating the scarring!”
So…

DIANE SANFILIPPO: That's really funny because for a second I was like, did you start reading your own notes? [laughs]

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah, that's kind of what I thought for a second. I was like, wait, like no, I don't use that Elta MD, and then she said “I've yet to try Liz's recommendation,” and I'm thinking, Phew! because that really does sound like exactly my experience. And one of the highest traffic posts on my blog is the post that I entitled, “WAP Me Pretty.” I don't…what a weird, weird title, I don't know. But basically Weston A. Price Me Pretty. [laughs] And that's basically what I did. I started adding some probiotic foods, getting a little bit of extra sulfur, added some Brewer's Yeast from Lewis Labs. Just like the cod liver oil/butter oil blend from Green Pasture, the only Brewer's Yeast I recommend is from Lewis Labs. We can discuss that a little bit more later, but there are a couple different interesting factors to it that I believe had a chance at improving my skin and like the same thing that Caleena said, I'm not sure which variable it was, but whatever it was, it worked and so I stuck with it. But I also do the oil cleansing method. Use the jojoba oil and I also use the Green Pastures Beauty Balm.
And what I want to say about the scarring, not knowing how deep it is, and what precisely Caleena's dealing with as far as the residual scars, first of all, it might just take some patience and some continuing with that new skin care method, which has helped her improve her skin. Sometimes it takes time. I think castor oil can be really, really helpful. I've heard tell of many people who have actually really improved some scarring over the long term with castor oil packs and things like that. So just continued application of the castor oil and continuing to use that.
Additionally, there are a few…if you poke around in the literature a little bit, you'll see some discussion of using topical cod liver oil to enhance skin healing, and this is mostly, I think in reference to burn victims, but vitamin A and zinc, I believe, can be very helpful in skin healing. You could get some aqueous zinc, like some zinc heptahydrate and just kind of pat the liquid on your face, and you know, just pat it around, put it on a cotton ball. I don't know, that might help. Part of the reason I like the Green Pasture Beauty Balm is because it does contain some cod liver oil, fermented cod liver oil. That could probably be very helpful were people able to stand the stink of it, just by…

DIANE SANFILIPPO: I'm obsessed with that stuff now.

LIZ WOLFE: The balm is good. The balm is a blend of cod liver oil, high vitamin butter oil, coconut oil, and shea butter. And some people say it smells pretty bad. I don't notice it anymore. I've yet to ask my husband if my face stinks. It just seems like a weird question. But I do believe that could be helpful. Now for some of the deeper scars, there may not be anything topical or nutritional that can completely solve that, so I would never begrudge somebody a laser treatment. It's just one of those things that you have to weigh compared to things, and anytime anyone's on antibiotics, definitely, you know, once you're done with that, do your best to rebuild some of that good flora with the best probiotic food or probiotic supplementation. Feeding those probiotics with good soluble fiber. Sweet potato, that type of stuff. Do you have anything to say, Diane, on this one?

DIANE SANFILIPPO: The only other thing I thought of is…well, first of all, I think a little bit of time is a good idea, just to see what might happen. You know, what skin cells might, you know, proliferate again, and if you're doing…since she's doing oil cleansing, something like, I feel like part of the oil cleansing that works right for me, and I only use coconut oil, just because I'm lazy, and figuring out which other oils to buy and use was really frustrating me. So I was like, forget it! I'm using coconut oil. At first it wasn't great, and then now it's great. And so, I think part of it is the fact that I'm using a washcloth, and it's almost like I'm exfoliating while I'm wiping off that stuff. It seems to have smoothed out my skin a bit. But it sounds like she's dealing with some much more serious scarring, so I don't know. If she's looked into something like microdermabrasion, I, I had a colleague who was another-she was a nutrition educator who worked in like a very natural, holistic skin care clinic, where they used a lot of, you know, fruit acids and things like that in their facials, and that kind of stuff. And she was really trying to help me for a long time to figure out my acne, and you know, it didn't turn out to be something topical for me, even though those treatments really helped in the short term, just with the texture of my skin, but I think she had done some microdermabrasion, which, you know, I think it might be like a lightweight kind of laser, you know. I think it's got some light therapy or light kind of working, and it freaks me out a little bit. I'm really bad with like needles and all that kind of, you know, anything that seems doctor-y to me, but it seemed to work pretty well, and I wonder if it would be a little bit less invasive before a laser treatment, but I would do some more research on that: microdermabrasion or even like…I don't know that chemical peels and I think what I had done years and years ago was a fruit acid, so I don't know that that would really get deep enough for what she's talking about. But I would really consult with someone who's at kind of a nicer, either you know, dermatologist office or someone that does skin care and facials with more natural products and kind of just find out from them what they think might also be helpful, and just do a little bit of research that way, and weigh your options.

LIZ WOLFE: That's my..

DIANE SANFILIPPO: I also don't..hmm?

LIZ WOLFE: DrRons…D-R-R-O-N-S.com. They, come to think of it, they're kind of a Weston A. Price type brand, but they do a little bit of that more kind of Cadillac of skincare stuff. They have some interesting stuff. I haven't tried too much of it just because I really just do more of the basics. Although on some accounts, I am a little bit of a product junkie. I'm just really into the Primal Life Organics line right now. Actually, Trina at Primal Life Organics might have some kind of…and she's like a oil and skincare genius. She might have something, some kind of idea about scars and like a good serum or a good blend of oils to use on her face, so she might…who is this, was this Caleena's question? Yeah. Caleena might want to pop over to the Primal Life Organics page on Facebook and just drop a question there for Trina. For something like this, she might have an idea. But DrRons.com also has some of those, like the glycolic peel type things. You can put them on at night. They're supposed to be good for scars and they don't use anything like propylene glycol or parabens or SLS or anything like that that we want to avoid in skincare products, but check out Primal Life Organics. Drop Trina a question on her Facebook page, and you might also want to look at DrRons.com at some of those skin complexes. They might be helpful, short of going to a really good, high quality type natural type dermatology or medspa or something like that.
Okay. Where at we at now?

DIANE SANFILIPPO: I want to move down to maybe body hair? Scroll down yet?

LIZ WOLFE: Okay. This one from Marion: “Hello, I’m a 30-something woman with excess body and facial hair. I’m interested in following the Paleo diet. Do you think that this lifestyle could potentially help my problem? I’ve never been diagnosed with any hormonal problems, although I’ve been too embarrassed to seek out medical help with the issue either. Any suggestions?”
I think this one's for you, Diane.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: So excess facial hair is a really common symptom of hormonal imbalances, so it sounds like she had a hunch, you know, even though she's never been diagnosed. I definitely think it can help the problem to go, you know, to go on a Paleo diet. She's interested in it as it stands. The imbalances can sometimes be something like PCOS or even just a mild, you know, I've said this before, like a subclinical PCOS or maybe it's not the full-blown, where the doctors are like, oh you definitely have this, but you know, potentially leading into that. This is one of those cases where you know, she would probably do well on a lower carb Paleo diet because what we generally see with women dealing with these hormonal imbalances is a cascade from insulin that's totally dysregulated. So we really need to get insulin under control, and just going Paleo in and of itself typically helps that dramatically because we generally cut carb intake from somewhere in the 2 to 300 grams a day to under 150, even typically under 100, just depending on, you know, what people gravitate towards in their food choices, whether it's more fruit or any dried fruit, that kind of thing vs. veggies. But I would say that even a low carb Paleo approach might be a good idea for her, at least for an intervention, 1 to 3 months kind of thing, and see how she's doing, if there's any change. I think, you know, with hair, it might need more time than, you know, a week or 30 days. It might need that 3 months or even longer.
I would strongly recommend that she work with a practitioner, get some female hormone testing done as well as getting testosterone levels checked. And that's something that all women can generally get checked, our testosterone levels. It's not just, I'm experiencing these symptoms. I'm pretty sure that was on my full panel workup that I had several months ago. Just because you need to see what's happening with it for every female. But a simple imbalance there could be the issue, and finding the root cause of the imbalance is really key, so when it comes to factor hormones, as I said, managing insulin is the first step, getting blood sugar in check. You know, to do that, she could even check out, if she's interested in going Paleo, the 21 Day Sugar Detox is, you know, you don't even have to go Paleo on the first level of it. If you're just looking for guidance, that might be helpful as a first step. Or some of the other level. And I also have a blood sugar regulation meal plan in Practical Paleo, so you know, you can follow the information in that even if you don't want to follow the actual meals and foods, you can follow the first 3 or 4 pages, whatever, of diet and lifestyle recommendations and all of that. It can really put you on a good track.
But I would definitely say to work with a practitioner. I would not be embarrassed about it. It's really, really common. And they've seen it before. Often. So they're going to know how to help you probably better than others might. Be wary if, you know, the way they want to help you are things like antibiotics or too much hormone therapy without getting a lot of hormone testing done. So definitely do the testing. Some of that may be blood testing. So you may also want to do saliva testing. Potentially like a 28 day cycle test, where you do multiple samples throughout your monthly cycle. It could be just be a more simplified test where they're just checking kind of at a glance hormones. But I really think that that stuff, you know, you can feel free to go ahead and get started on a different nutritional plan, give that some time. If you just want that to be your intervention, I would give it at least 3 months. If you think you notice any change, but otherwise, I would say, how if it's something that if you're concerned about it, I would definitely, you know, talk to someone. And see if there is a hormonal imbalance. Or, if it's not actually a hormonal imbalance, if it's something that just, you happen to grow differently, I think, you know, I've definitely seen this on some science where you know, they just have darker hair, and so it's a little unfortunate aesthetically, but we don't know the level of it. So we don't know really how far excess it is because it's absolutely subjective. So you may be hypercritical of yourself or you may be noticing something that's completely legitimate. So…

LIZ WOLFE: Yup.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: That's it.

LIZ WOLFE: Okay, next up. The title of this question is “No Poo and Travel.” What's funny, Diane, is that I did…we have a question coming up probably on a future podcast about “No Pooping and Travel,” and this was a whole different thing, yet I deal with both issues on a regular basis. So we'll start with No Shampoo and Travel. And maybe in a couple episodes, we'll get to the No Poo-ing and Travel. Okay.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: I'm like that one's more fun for me is the No Poo-ing and Travel.

LIZ WOLFE: [laughs] We have weird conversations. Very weird.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Totally.

LIZ WOLFE: All right, so Lucia says, or Lucia. Either one. “Hello ladies! Thank you for all you do, I love listening to your podcast! Woohoo!” [laughs] I don't think Lucia has given up coffee like you have, Diane.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: [laughs]

LIZ WOLFE: “My question I suppose may just be for Liz–it’s about that no ‘poo thang.” And just FYI for those listening who don't know what No ‘Poo is, it's basically no shampoo, and it's how I take care of my hair and I talk about it a lot on my blog and basically the use of baking soda and apple cider vinegar, rather than shampoo. You can go over to my blog and type No ‘Poo in the search box. You'll find it.
So, Lucia says: ” I tried just the baking soda / vinegar (as well as only washing my hair once per week) for about three months in the fall, and I definitely enjoyed not using shampoo and conditioner–I noticed my eyes didn’t sting after showering and I felt better, too! Then I went on a vacation. That shook things up a bit and suddenly I was off the no ‘poo boat, lost at (a rather sudsy) sea.
But, my question. Liz: how do you do no ‘poo while traveling? Transporting baking soda is easy enough, but what about the vinegar? Do you buy new Apple Cider Vinegar every time? Or just carry a few ounces in and out of the airport since you aren’t even washing your hair very much anyway?
I suppose this would be a secondary question then, but if you have ended up using shampoo and conditioner on a recent trip, did you feel it totally threw all your no ‘poo progress out the window, and you had to start the acclimation process all over again? Any advice would be much appreciated!”
Okay, so [laughs] question. It's so funny to me because there was one day when I was packing up. Maybe it was for a workshop, a Balanced Bites workshop, I can't remember. But I was getting ready to pack a few ounces of apple cider vinegar and baking soda in my travel bag, and I thought to myself, this really looks way too much like drugs and like a urine specimen. [laughs]

DIANE SANFILIPPO: laughs]

LIZ WOLFE: I'm like, I'm looking at these two and thinking this is probably not a good idea. Plus the fact the baking soda and apple cider vinegar all told you could get a gallon of apple cider vinegar for 2 dollars. So yes, generally, when I'm on the road, I'll swing by, I don't know, CVS or wherever, and buy some baking soda and apple cider vinegar. However, when it actually matters how my hair looks, such as I don't know, at a workshop or if I'm, you know, going to guest star on a soap opera or something like that, I'm going to be with Regis Philbin, whatever, it's really tough when you travel to know how your hair's going to do with this no ‘poo regimen because, in my experience, it really makes a difference how hard your water. So there have been times when it has been a pretty major disaster, just because the quality of the water was different than it is at home. When I use this method, like when I'm visiting my family in Kansas City, it doesn't work as well. The water's different than it is out here at our house in New Jersey. It works fantastically well in New Jersey. We have no shampoo or conditioner in the house. We never do. We have a little bit of Castile soap. If I'm in a rush because my hair's so long, its' probably…I mean, it's…my hair is really, really long. I've been too lazy to get a haircut for a really long time and my hair is really healthy, so it really hasn't shown up with any split ends or looking too gross, so that's another added benefit of ditching the shampoo. I digress.
But yeah, it works amazing well at home. So generally, I will travel with like a little safety net of either shampoo from GFSoap.com or Castile soap and a little bit of conditioner from GFSoap.com, which is GlutenFreeSoap.com. Or even Cocoa Pink, which those products have a little bit more stuff in them, but nothing super crazy, no sodium laureth sulfate or any of that stuff. No propylene glycol. Just a lot of the stuff I try to avoid. So I do travel with a safety net of a few ounces of those shampoos and conditioners. So if I had some kind of you know, unforeseen disaster with the baking soda and the apple cider vinegar at a hotel, I'll just start over. Kind of obnoxious, but I try not to kind of sabotage my routine if I don't have to. But also with regards to the second question, does it throw out all your no ‘poo progress, I don't think so. It really doesn't seem like it to me, so…
And also for folks that really don't want to deal with the baking soda, I find that Dr.Bronner's Castile Soap works fairly well. It works a little bit better in conjunction with the baking soda, but if you need a little bit of soap, just to cover all the hair and to just feel better with that, there's no reason why you can't, you know, throw in a squirt of Dr. Bronner's or some lye soap or something like that. It's just really individual. I could talk about this for forever and ever. But I'll stop.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: I haven't made the leap into the No ‘Poo thing, and I think part of it is that I'm never really home for more than maybe 2 weeks at a clip at most. So relying on something that very heavily is based on like the mineral content of the water and how that's going to react would be really freaky for me. Even in Boston last week, the water there was really, really soft. Like we would be washing our hands in the bathroom and notice it felt like the soap never came off.

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: And the first day I think, either it was the first or first and second day I remember I was using conditioner in my hair, and I think on the third day, I didn't use any because it was just like way too soft. And I think that that can be really tricky, but just kind of a general take, too, on traveling with unique products and liquids and powders and all that stuff. You know, you can absolutely travel with a whole bunch of 2 or 3 ounce liquid containers, whatever's in there. I put olive oil, whatever else I'm carrying, and my coconut oil. That kind of stuff. You can absolutely travel with that stuff, no problem. People get really freaked out just because of all the rules, but that doesn't mean that you can't still travel with them. You absolutely can. And it's not really a big deal at all.

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: You kind of have to pack that stuff up and I'd even be doing, like I know, Liz, you have some of this stuff, too. Every time we kind of like we Paleo/Weston A Price people get together, there's like what kind of product or homemade product did you bring? And [laughs]

LIZ WOLFE: [laughs]

DIANE SANFILIPPO: We usually have some kind of combination of those what like 3 or 4 ingredients that you tend to rely on, like coconut oil, apple cider vinegar, baking soda. I made some toothpaste recently that I'm going to reblend and measure this time what I'm doing because I'm a chef, I'm not a baker. So measuring for me is very stressful, but I will do it, to the benefit of the public, to measure out. What I did to make a baking soda-it was a baking soda, peroxide, coconut oil, and mint essential oil, I think it's a wintergreen essential oil toothpaste. And it's been really great because it's been like whitening my teeth. I have some weird stains on my teeth. I couldn't really understand. It wasn't coffee. I feel like kombucha may have done it. But long story short about this whole carrying weird things to take care of your body, totally no big deal. Just make sure that your bottles are labeled with how much liquid they hold. So if you go to like the Container Store or Whole Foods or something and buy some empty plastic bottles, just make sure it's printed somewhere on the bottle that it's either 2 ounces or 3 ounces or whatever it is, so that it's really easy. Especially if it's at all questionably large, just to make sure that TSA knows that it's a 3 ounce bottle and that you're fine. And you know, do the whole thing, put it in a Ziploc bag so that there's no issues on stopping and questions, but really, it shouldn't be a problem at all outside of the water variability. Like taking that stuff with you is really not a big deal. You can also even find in, like standard drug stores, those little bottles and then like a little baby funnel to pour your, you know, little apple cider vinegar into your tiny bottle. So it' becoming easier and easier to just kind of travel with that stuff, so that's my take.

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: On that. But I…

LIZ WOLFE: You're like Travel Weeloo Wizard.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: [laughs] What? Travel what?

LIZ WOLFE: You're the Travel [laughs] the Travel Weezard…wizard, but weezard.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: [laughs] You're weird.

LIZ WOLFE: You're the travel weezard. Okay, so…

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah.

LIZ WOLFE: Let's split while we're not at all ahead. [laughs]

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, it's been an hour, and I would just like to say for, you know, the one or two commenters who've left reviews about us kind of rambling in the beginning. That was from the very beginning our plan. Like we are absolutely thrilled…

LIZ WOLFE: [laughs]

DIANE SANFILIPPO: to answer people's questions, but we, you know, we have topics that we want to talk about that are important that are not necessarily things that people ask, so sometimes it's like, just whatever topic, you know, is related, and sometimes it's not. And you know, for as many people may comment that it's like a lot in the beginning, I've had probably 9 out of ten people, if not more tell me that's their favorite part of the podcast. So we will absolutely continue to banter and catch up because if anyone's wondering, it's often the only time Liz and I speak all week. [laughs] We're so busy right now, but that will change soon as we start shacking up on the road again. [laughs] While we're teaching in the workshops this fall, so any other announcements? We should probably remind people that we've got a whole bunch of workshops coming up this fall, mostly on the East Coast. So check out BalancedBites.com for-in the sidebar of the dates and a bunch of book signings I'll be doing, and I'm probably adding those with a little bit less notice because they're going to be either some local events or local to wherever I'm kind of showing up at the time, so keep checking out the website if you're looking for a book signing, and Facebook, and if you're not on my emailing list, make sure you get on the emailing list, so you can see updates on that kind of stuff when I send them. Anything else for you, lady?

LIZ WOLFE: No, nothing even…

DIANE SANFILIPPO: No?

LIZ WOLFE: Nothing, no.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: You're what?

LIZ WOLFE: Nothing witty, nothing good. Nothing. I got nothing.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Oh boy. All right, well, I'm going to spend the last half an hour of not really sunlight, looks totally overcast out there. I'm down the Shore at Stone Harbor with the Food Lovers, so I'm going to head out to the beach and catch a little bit more overcast ray of light out there. I did get some color. So that's a good thing. Vitamin D time. All righty? Til next week?

LIZ WOLFE: Til next week.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Later.

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