Podcast Episode #78: Simplifying the Transition to Paleo

I apologize that the sound quality early in the show was shaky – internet connectivity issues but I'm pretty sure it cleared up not too far in!

We answered some of your questions from Facebook!

SCOTT MILLS: Hey everyone, if you're expecting a female voice, don't worry, you're in the right place. I'm Dr. Scott Mills, and I'm a wellness chiropractor with a holistic family practice outside of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. I'm here with Diane Sanfilippo, who is a certified holistic nutrition consultant and the New York Times Bestselling author of Practical Paleo. Welcome to episode 78 of the Balanced Bites podcast. Remember our disclaimer: the materials and content within this podcast are intended as general information only and are not to be considered a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Hey, can you hear me okay?

SCOTT MILLS: Yeah.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Awesome. Well, welcome everyone to the show. I wanted to do a little bit something different today. We've actually got a bunch of intro, sort of intro to Paleo questions from the listeners and our readers, and I was excited to invite Dr. Scott on the show because Liz is house hunting somewhere in the middle of the country, which I always joke that the country is like California and then the East Coast and then the middle. Like I don't…I don't really…I'm not, look, I know where your digestive system organs are, I really don't know…I don't know all those states in the middle. All the square ones. Yeah. Are you good with geography?

SCOTT MILLS: I lived in Kansas for about 8 months, so I remember that part of the state.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Do you think living there for a little while makes you actually realize that there are a whole bunch of other states there because…?

SCOTT MILLS: Maybe.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Maybe that's what does it. Okay, well, I literally just moved into my new place today. So I apologize if there's any like weird, you know, outdoor sounds or any kind of weird internet connection because they came to connect my internet today, so hopefully everything's cool.

SCOTT MILLS: Literally today.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Literally today, a few hours ago. So yeah, I just want to give you, Dr. Scott, a little bit of time to introduce yourself and to just bring, bring another perspective into the mix. I know we often have guests on the show and we don't often have a change up in co-host, which I think is really fun to just let people kind of meet some different folks out there in the community who are doing this stuff and I don't know. So why don't we just get started, and why don't you tell our listeners a little bit about your background with kind of transitioning to Paleo and maybe some of the things that you learned along the way that made it either, you know, harder than it had to be or just things that made it easier as you went along.

SCOTT MILLS: Sure. [cuts out 2:48-3:01] whole grains, lean meats, all the things that we hear are good for us. [cuts out 3:06-3:20] two years ago, and so that transitional phase, you know, for me it certainly took about three [cuts out 3:25-3:41].

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Awesome. Well, I think, I mean, obviously, probably a lot of listeners, if they also check out the blog, they've seen my Paleo Perfectionism post. So they know that I'm kind of aligned with you in that sense where when people try and make things perfect, it really just fouls everything up because you set yourself up for failure when you just really try and go out the gate, 100% perfect. So similarly, when I transitioned to…I just remember to gluten free…

SCOTT MILLS: Right.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: It took me at least a year to really go gluten free to you know, look at bread and be like, nope, don't want that or remember to ask for them to not put it on the plate or if they do put it on the plate, not to eat it.

SCOTT MILLS: Not to eat it, yeah. I remember that phase of my transition as well.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, the worst for me was this place called La Boulange in San Francisco, which has Nutella for free as like one of their, you know, ketchup, mustard, and Nutella. Just a condiment. I mean, come on. So I would get the toast by accident, and then, of course, I just had to…all right, maybe I'll just have it because I have these two tablespoons of Nutella sitting right here. Anyway, it's tough, man. But yeah, I think that's a great point. So do you want to tell our listeners a little bit more too about just some ways that you kind of can gently make recommendations or suggestions to your patients now? Granted, our listeners may be dealing with friends or family or co-workers who are curious about this stuff. I always tell people not to say anything unless they're asked. You're in a little bit of a different position because, you know, as a doctor, you know, as a medical professional who's helping people, you know, with their health care and wellness care, this is something that's really on the forefront of your mind, I'm sure, all the time. So do you want to kind of tell people the way you incorporate that?

SCOTT MILLS: The way I incorporate my recommendations?

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, and just maybe how much you tend to say at a time and how you kind of

SCOTT MILLS: I see…

DIANE SANFILIPPO: meter what you're saying because I know some people try and become like overzealous, right? They learn about Paleo and they like scream it from the mountain tops.

SCOTT MILLS: Sure. I think I definitely made that [cuts out 6:00-6:15] That's definitely one place [cuts out 6:17-6:31] transition into some more habits.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: I think that's, you know, what I've really seen with the 21 Day Sugar Detox and it's kind of the reason why I felt so motivated for that to be the next book is that I'm seeing that more people can be helped with that approach because it is very focused…

SCOTT MILLS: Sure.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: and it is a little more inclusive and simplified, and I've seen just such a broad audience really embrace that program. And I do love that so many people end up saying, well, I'm interested in this Paleo thing kind of after, even if they don't kind of start with that high level, so I think that that's great and I think…so you've been running the 21 Day Sugar Detox in your practice. I know, and you've seen some success with some folks there, right?

SCOTT MILLS: It is. Well, interestingly enough, I needed to hire a staff member in the last couple months, and so she's been getting her feet wet in the wellness chiropractic realm, which is a transition in of itself, and she actually came to our 21 Sugar Detox program, the kickstart class that you and I co-hosted about 3 weeks ago now, so she actually just finished. And I got a really cool update from her, had lost some weight and feeling good about her energy and really, you know, I guess the best part in just that off what you just said, which is she's continuing it. She's not stopping, so she really wants to create healthy habits out of this kickstart, which is the 21 Day Sugar Detox, so definitely some interesting stuff there, and exciting to see the transition in her life.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: That's cool, and I think…I think another kind of good point about that with the program, and back to the perfectionism point is that the 21 Day Sugar Detox does not start out, you know, in level one as a Paleo approach.

SCOTT MILLS: Right.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: But what ends up happening is that people get so much healthier. You know, they're cutting out refined foods and sugar and I think that's what our listeners really need to understand about. You know, a lot of people ask about how can II get my family to do this? How can I get my husband, my boyfriend, my sister, whoever? And, you know, we'll talk about that probably a little bit more a little bit later, but I think part of it is that like you really can't force other people to change, but the other part is, you know, trying to recognize is there a step that they can take that might seem more approachable to them than just go Paleo, cut out 20 of your favorite things to eat, right?

SCOTT MILLS: Right.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Like tomorrow vs. okay, try this for 3 weeks. It still gives them a few things that, you know, maybe aren't 100% Paleo, but you know what? They're 100% better than what that person was probably eating before, so…and I think that's what really sets the tone and sets the stage for more change is, you know, the one person experiencing positive results and it kind of cascades. Other people ask questions. I just got an email tonight. Somebody who's been following the meal plan in Practical Paleo and said, 3 of my co-workers have been asking, you know, what are you doing?

SCOTT MILLS: Right.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Because you look great. You seem like so much more alert, blah, blah, blah. You know, great energy and I think that that's where it really, really stems from. So cool. Do you want to get into some questions here?

SCOTT MILLS: Yeah. So you had posted a question up on your Facebook page asking, you know, people what their common questions and concerns were, especially in transition. So we have a question here from Joni who asks, “What are your tips for making the transition cost effective and workable in a situation when one has a significant other who balks at the terms low carb/paleo and what are some tips for working long hours at night and for combating cravings for sweets.”

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Oh, all right, well, I'll give a couple of my tips and then if you want to give a couple of yours as well. Generally, if you're dealing with somebody who, I mean, I actually was surprised that she said “balks at the terms low carb and Paleo”

SCOTT MILLS: Right.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Vs. balks at the price. You know, making it cost effective, I think part of it might be taking a receipt from a shopping trip you did before and then doing a shopping trip and kind of seeing what you're really spending. I think that there are ways to kind of shop through meat department and look at what's on sale. Look at cuts that are on sale. I eat a lot of ground meat…a lot. And I just don't really mind. You know, I just figure it's the least expensive thing I can get, and if I don't have portion of a cow share or lamb share or something like that, which is really the number one best way to make buying you, you know, well raised proteins cost effective is to really go in on buying a whole animal.

SCOTT MILLS: Absolutely.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, I mean, you get the best price and you get all of the amazing cuts. I mean, lamb steaks for weeks and weeks at, you know, 7 bucks a pound vs. $30 a pound for tops.

SCOTT MILLS: Sure.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: So I mean, you just can't beat that, but somebody who balks at the terms, I mean, I don't know if I really have anything to say about that. I think just build your plate and you know, if this person…if your significant other thinks that, you know, you eat too much meat or something like that, I mean, show him that your plate might be half filled with vegetables if you want it to be. Just really, you know, stay the course and do what you're doing, and let your health really be the sort of social proof, I suppose, vs. just you know, you're saying, okay, all these people say this is healthy. Do it for you, like, let your success be the proof. Do you have more to say about that?

SCOTT MILLS: Maybe just you know, because the term issue I would possibly repackage it

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah.

SCOTT MILLS: with a new term and just say, hey, we're going to be eating whole foods in this house. [laughs]

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah.

SCOTT MILLS: And maybe just not talk about carbs or fat or protein and just sort of focus more on the eliminating processed food and incorporating whole foods. That's maybe one tip that might help that transition. As far as…

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, I mean…sorry. I was just going to say, you might not even be eating low carb or maybe he doesn't need to, you know?

SCOTT MILLS: Sure. I thought of [cuts out 13:03-13:10] was funny but I've got some patients who do a lot of deer hunting, you know, during the season, and you know, that's one way that you can acquire some pastured protein in a very cost effective manner. And that might help supplement some of our protein costs.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: What about tips for working long hours and combating sweet cravings? I think that for me, I really love teas. Herbal teas. I like peppermint tea. I like really any kind of herbal tea, and when I say herbal, that means not something that's caffeinated.

SCOTT MILLS: Sure.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: So you know, and that's, you know, long hours at night. I don't want people caffeinating themselves late at night. I think that herbal tea really, really helps. I think part of it's just the habit of kind of sipping or you're kind of eating something. And part of it's just peppermint tea is a great one. It's one of my favorites as I'm now doing the 21 Day Sugar Detox or I'm just trying curb the sweets in the evening. I go for that. And making sure that you're getting enough sleep the day before, or the night before, that really helps with sugar cravings the next day.

SCOTT MILLS: Yeah, you know, one of the things I know we talk about a lot, and I know you talked about a lot with Liz on this program is that the importance of preparation and sort of just knowing that's coming and having something with you that is going to be fulfilling but not ruin your effort at healthier eating. So one of the things I keep around in my office, for example, to munch on is just a handful of raw nuts, a good appetite curber. And just kind of one of those good tips.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: The other thing I usually recommend for folks, especially on the Sugar Detox, if cravings for sweets are your problem, l-glutamine, which is a powder. You can get it in a powder form, amino acid, and it basically, when you take this amino acid into your body, it converts pretty quickly and allows your body to receive sort of this…I don't really know if I explain it perfectly, but Julia Ross, I think, explains this in the Diet Cure, where it essentially tells your body you've gotten some glucose because these amino acids that can convert, but you don't actually eat sugar and you don't actually take in that sweet taste, but it actually…it does sort of quench that craving…

SCOTT MILLS: Right.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: if you're having it in your body and it quiets it down so you really don't then want to reach for sweets. You'll find tons of people who've given me that feedback on the Sugar Detox Facebook page. They say, I've been using it and really within a few minutes, I don't feel that craving anymore and it's pretty amazing. I don't know if that's partly placebo effect, which is still an effect that works, right? But yeah. Kind of a cool one.

SCOTT MILLS: All right [cuts out 16:21-16:38]

DIANE SANFILIPPO: So tips for getting rid of dairy. I think some of the biggest ones are looking at what hat dairy is being used for. I think most often with folks, it's the coffee or cereal, and I think when you're making the transition to Paleo and you're trying to really change your habits, my, you know, my experience and what I've seen with clients and you know, people I work with, on Facebook and myself, is that that transition time you're constantly trying to replace your grain products with grain free versions, right? So something like a grain free granola is a great option, but when you're trying to get rid of the dairy and you end up replacing it with something that you may or may not actually be getting the best quality either. It can be tricky, but that being said, you know, you can make some almond milk. You can try coconut milk. I like to do full fat coconut milk that I'll then sort of half way water down in a larger down. Like I'll take a glass jar, pour the full fat coconut milk in there and then add, you know, another 50% of the jar some water and kind of shake it up so I dilute it a little bit just because it's super super thick and very, very calorie dense.

SCOTT MILLS: Mm-hmm.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: And that's like one of the biggest…I think one of the biggest things, and otherwise, I don't know. What do you think in terms of getting rid of dairy? What's a tough spot here?

SCOTT MILLS: Yeah you definitely took the words out of my mouth on that one as far as [cuts out 18:00-18:08] I guess I’m more accustomed to living without food that would require any kind of splash of milk, quote unquote. But yeah, I don't know. Nothing else really comes to mind, but I think those are good tips, especially the coconut milk one, but I think that's a good place to start.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: And then what about getting the most of meat and veggie CSAs? I haven’t ever had a meat CSA, but you know, for me the meat share in terms of getting half of a lamb or even a whole lamb or something, I don't really have any…I don't really think there's, for me, it doesn't seem troublesome to make the most of it because it's usually frozen and so, you know, it's just kind of like you can pick at which cuts you're going to make, and I feel like most of the awesome Paleo recipe websites out there; you know, our mutual friends, Bill and Hayley, of Food Lovers Primal Palate, they've made probably almost every type of cut of meat and organ meat. They'll kind of tackle it and just kind of make something great out of it. So I think, you know, I always tell people, whatever you've got in that CSA, just kind of do a little search for a recipe, a Paleo recipe, and I think you'll find something.

SCOTT MILLS: Yeah, I was just thinking of jumping there and there's so many good resources with recipes available that one of the troubles you may run into is the meat share/cow share, whatever it might be, is just kind of getting I guess “bored” with the same protein, you know, over and over, and I think that's where, you know, different preparations and seasonings and some ideas can really be helpful to make it new and exciting, you know, throughout the bulk of that share.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: What about with the veggies? What kind of stuff did you do with your like, what the heck is this vegetable that came in the share?

SCOTT MILLS: Yeah, we're fortunate to have a local organic CSA, a farm that does about 14 weeks during the growing season here in Pennsylvania that I joined. It's right near my office, which is nice, so I go and pick up my share every week, and [laughs] yeah. I think we live in an age where it's nice that you can just kind of get on Google and say what do I do with Bok Choi? And it'll come up with some kind of stir fry recipe or something that, you know, help you out through some of those novel veggies you're not accustomed to.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, I know my parents…my mom is so funny. She kept calling it. They had a CSA for awhile, and now they're kind of used to buying organic, so they, you know, it's not always super local in New Jersey. The CSA was like, you know, it still would be from across the East Coast, but I guess in California, when I was living there for 7 years, you know, it was grown in California, well, it could be 8 hours away or 1 hour away.

SCOTT MILLS: Sure.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: and still in California. But my mom's so cute. She would be like, oh well, we got the organic today. She would call it the organic. That was her name for the CSA.

SCOTT MILLS: I love that.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: She's so cute. But she would basically like have a tear on the weekend. She'd pick it up on a Saturday, I think, after her yoga class and then, like, Saturday afternoon evening, Sunday, just kind of cook a whole bunch of the veggies, whether it was tons of leafy greens or tons of carrots, like I think there were some of those root veggies or leafy greens you get a lot of at a time. And just either make a puree or soup almost every weekend she was doing that so that she could kind of use a lot of veggies at once. And that's stuff that freezes really well, too. So if that’s kind of the issue. And I think, if you have trouble getting through the CSA, find out if there's a way to do an every other week or if there are any options for like a smaller package or if you can split it with another family. When I did one a few years ago in San Francisco, that's kind of what I did. And I actually…I remember at one point I was eating pretty low carb and I said to them, look, I can't do the sweet potatoes or the squash. Can you just get me more greens or something else, and they were pretty accommodating. I think it just depends on the CSA.

SCOTT MILLS: It does, yeah. I've been a part of a few and it varies whether you can substitute based on your family's needs or their lives, but yeah. Lots of good tips there.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, why don't we go to, let's see. Oh okay. I guess let's just go ahead to Brittany's question.

SCOTT MILLS: Sure, Brittany askScott Mills: “Where to start? I know I can’t flip a switch and change the way I have eaten for 48 years. I keep dabbling but I need a plan to get on with changing my diet? [cuts out 22:58-23:23:04]

DIANE SANFILIPPO: So I think we talked about a bunch of these already so far. I think some of our listeners are probably like, you guys sound like a broken record. But, you know, the reality is this is the same thing you would tell somebody who's looking to start exercising, right?

SCOTT MILLS: Sure.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: You might tell them to just start by walking every day, and lifting lighter weights. You usually don't tell somebody who hasn't, you know, every thought about exercising to run into a CrossFit gym. Right?

SCOTT MILLS: Right.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: I love CrossFit. I do it. I love eating Paleo. I do that, too. But I don't know that those are always the best way for people to kind of get started.

SCOTT MILLS: Get started, yeah.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah. I've been kind of working on this series for awhile that I have not yet put out because life gets in the way. I'm a little bit busy, but I want to give people kind of these steps, like what I think are kind of the first steps to take and what the most important things are, and you've kind of alluded to this before, when we were talking about the Sugar Detox. But I think, you know, changing out the oils that you’re using in your house is one of the easiest things to switch because it's a lateral shift. So that doesn't mean all of a sudden you're not eating bread and pasta and rice, you know? You just change the ones that you're using and that's I think one of the easiest ways to kind of just move laterally and that's the way to get started. The second one is really, again, as we had talked about, read labels and look for things that have sugar or sweeteners added to them. And I have a whole list on my website under the Useful Guides of different types of sweeteners that can be added to something. And my sort of standard for this is, if it's not supposed to be sweet, why does it have a sweetener added to it? Now there's a few, you know, sort of random things out there, like organic ketchup, and if you use it very infrequently and it's got organic cane sugar in it, and it's like a couple of grams of sugar, not the biggest deal. But what I'm talking about are the things we eat every single day where you flip that package around. And a good example of this is something like Kashi GoLean Crunch cereal. People think that stuff is really healthy, and it's got at least 3 kinds of sweetener in it.

SCOTT MILLS: Right.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: And if you realize that when companies put different sweeteners into a product and they separate it out and they use something like honey. Then they use brown rice syrup. Then they use organic cane juice.

SCOTT MILLS: Cane juice, yeah.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, exactly. And when they do that, when they use 3 different ones, it's because they want to separate them out. Sometimes it's because they've different properties in the food, but the reality is if they just used honey, for example, it would be the first ingredient, and what we know about packaged foods is that the first ingredient is the one that there's the most of. So I think those two things. I think sugar and fat are, you know, some of the toughest things in our diet, right? And I think switching out our oils and then just reading labels for where we're getting added sugars, that, you know, this item is not supposed to be sweet. And I think it's really eye opening for people. People from, you know, Sugar Detox, I make them do this, and they're flipping around their tomato sauce, and they're like why is there sugar in my tomato sauce? Right, I mean you would never add sugar to tomato sauce that you make on your stove. So are there any kind of small tips that you generally throw out there for your patients or, you know, for people who are asking you?

SCOTT MILLS: I think one of the things that come to mind on this one, because I do have a [cuts out 26:23-37] foods or food products, I should say. And giving more whole food, you know, that's just kind of something that I think is eye opening for people, and they look at their plate, they look at what they're eating at lunch at work, for example. And you know, the reality is, it takes work and it takes repetition and habits and time and persistence, and all those things to really form new habits, and healthy habits. So I would encourage Brittany to not give up. It can be done, no matter how long you've been eating sort of the conventional, your conventional diet.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, I think it was Tim Ferriss. I was listening to him on another podcast where he was talking about his book, The Four Hour Chef, and he was saying how when we ask people to start eating healthier, we're not just asking them to really do one thing, and I think it's important to realize this, when we ask people to start cooking more at home, and eating more whole foods, it means we're asking you to go to the grocery store, maybe we're even asking you to start before that to look at, you know, cookbooks or websites and make a list, make a meal plan. Then we want you to go to the grocery store. Then we want you to come home with it, chop it up, cook it, and then clean up after. So realize that like there are a lot of steps there that you're making changes for, so that's why I really don't always tell people to just go at this thing whole hog. I think it's important to kind of make those small steps along the way, and just, you know, if you focus yourself on buying your groceries and cooking as much as you can from scratch, even if you're still doing something like eating beans or rice or some kind of grain products are getting in there, I honestly think that's a huge, huge step. You actually start to find that the more you cook, I think the less you even tend to make things like grains and beans because they require so much more time. When I was transitioning to Paleo from my previously just gluten free ways of eating, and I had like rice and quinoa and things like that in the house, I rarely made them because I was just too lazy to wait the 30 minutes that it was going to take to boil the water and to let the grain cook. I was about to cook my meal in about 5 or10 minutes on the stovetop. My ground meat, you know, my green veggies or whatever it was, going to take me 10 to 15 minutes. So I think I was pretty lazy, but if you don't let yourself buy the processed stuff, you don't let us buy the bread and the crackers and all the things that are coming in packages, even if you have those sort of more whole forms in the house, you're giving yourself that opportunity to just take the time and cook and kind of put something better on your plate.

SCOTT MILLS: Yeah.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: I think just being patient with yourself is really important, too, right?

SCOTT MILLS: Right, the reality is we all have gone through this transition. Like those of us who are, you know, down the line in eating this way or have been doing it for awhile, we all went through these stages. Just like I'm chuckling because you're talking about your gluten free stage and like, that was me, you know, 3 years ago, still eating beans and rice and things like that, and yes, it was a step in the right direction, and I think that's what I mentioned before, that it's all about direction, not perfection. You just continue to make transitional steps, and eventually, you know, habits are formed.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: For sure. Let's go down to, I want to say, Acadia, is that how you say her name?

SCOTT MILLS: Sure, that looks like Acadia askScott Mills: “Snacks and breakfasts are the hardest things to rethink. I keep having eggs for breakfast, but having those all the time probably isn't that good either.”

DIANE SANFILIPPO: I mean, I don't think having eggs for breakfast all the time is a problem unless you are worried that you might be sensitive to them.

SCOTT MILLS: Sure.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: But like I said, I eat ground meat so often, and ground meat wrapped in lettuce, at that, so often that when I'm not cooking to make a recipe for the book or to make, you know, a recipe for the blog or something that I'm going to share with people. I mean, you can probably bet that like 9 times out of 10, I'm pretty much eating the same thing all the time. And you know, again, if you've got a health condition or some kind of sensitivity where your body's reacting to foods that you're eating all the time, you can't do that. But for a lot of us, these habits actually are what makes the transition really easy, that we have our go-tos, we have our favorites, we know what's going to taste good and what's quick and easy to make.
For breakfast, I think, you know, breakfast sausage is really easy. There's a recipe for a sausage spice blend in my book. It's also on the blog for free, and I think you can kind of…you can make those just right away in the morning, you know, kind of the same way you would just make a meatball and flatten it out, make a little sausage patty. Or you can make them all at once. You can just kind of bake them and have them ahead of time, and just sort of reheat those in a pan. I think those are good. You know, as a sort of traditional breakfast food. But I think just rethinking your breakfast and don't worry that you are having a breakfast food. You know, maybe you just got leftovers, right Scott?

SCOTT MILLS: Right. I'm sorry to interrupt. That's where I was going to jump in. The first thing I thought of when I heard this question was [32:08-32:19] That's one of the things that can help.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: One of the things I tell people usually if they're concerned about doing, you know, meat for breakfast because they just feel like it's too heavy, “heavy.” You know, they're used to eating something lighter, you know. For some reason people think pastries are lighter. I don't really understand where that comes from, but I think it's just because it's sugar vs. more fat and protein.

SCOTT MILLS: Sure.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: But flavoring things in the morning with, you know, maybe, cook with butter, cook with ghee or coconut oil, and then doing something like cinnamon, you know, where it feels like you're eating something sweet. You know, sweet potato pancakes for example, where it's basically mostly sweet potato that's shredded with egg, but if you add into that some cinnamon and some vanilla, and you're not adding even any sweetener, just the natural sweetness of the sweet potato, plus that cinnamon, makes you feel like you're kind of getting something sweet. Or even just cooking those chicken thighs with a little bit of salt, but even with cinnamon. I also used to do curry powder with cinnamon, and that had this like really warm kind of, I don't know, just yummy, I could eat this in the morning kind of taste to it. So kind of another tip is to play around with the spices and the flavorings…

SCOTT MILLS: Sure.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: that you're doing, kind of lighten it up or do something a little bit more, you know, that seems sweet in the morning that might kind of help. Or kind of the white meats vs. red meat might help.

SCOTT MILLS: Yeah, I mean, I definitely…I was feeling this way actually, probably 2 days ago, and I had some leftover lamb steaks and roasted cauliflower, and that was my breakfast the next morning. You know, probably 3 years ago, if you had told me I'd be enjoying that, I don't know that I'd believe you, but you know, you transition, get used to it, and then all of a sudden it's like, oh wow, that was a really, really fulfilling breakfast. And you know, something that didn't involve eggs, for example.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, I think it just takes getting used to. The other tip I was going to throw in there, and this actually might be for…also for Brittany about, you know, making a change after that much time and then, you know, rethinking breakfast, all of that. Just look around at what some other folks are doing. Pinterest is a great place to look at that. What I was going to say for Brittany was that, you know, look at some Meetup groups and see if you can make some new friends. I think part of what makes it easier to make this happen is having a lot of friends who do the same thing, who eat the same way, and it really does make it a lot easier.

SCOTT MILLS: Absolutely.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: I think…why don't we get to…I think we have two different Kristens?

SCOTT MILLS: It's Kristen and then Kirsten.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Oh. Look at me reading that all backwards. It's been a long day, and I just have to say because our listeners are so used to Liz kind of making wisecracks and talking about pop culture references that I absolutely cannot understand because I think our age difference is like multiplied by like 30 or something. Because she talks about vampire fiction, like I don't know any of that, but your voice is so like soothing and calm, and I feel like we're recording an episode of The Delicious Dish like on SNL.

SCOTT MILLS: Sure.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Do you feel like that, Dr. Scott?

SCOTT MILLS: It does.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: So if anyone's listening while driving in the morning vs. at night…well, it's also…I hate to tell people this, but it is also evening, kind of close to 9 pm we're recording this because I was moving all day. So like slap on the wrist that it's this late. But I'll tell you my Flux has kicked in so my screen is nice and dim and orange.

SCOTT MILLS: Yeah, ditto.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Ditto. Fluxing it up. All right.

SCOTT MILLS: Let's take Kristen now. She sayScott Mills: “Is it better to give my 2 year old daughter white rice with grass fed butter or a white potato with grass fed butter as a side dish?”

DIANE SANFILIPPO: I would say, personally I would say to go with the potato first, primarily for this reason, and it's not because, you know, one's Paleo, one's not Paleo. Obviously a lot of people think white potatoes are not Paleo or whatever. I think that the chances that you have a fresher product with a potato vs. a grain, like white rice, are just much higher. So we don't know where the rice is coming from. You know, maybe you're getting domestic rice. Maybe it's imported. We don't know how long it sat somewhere beforehand. I just like the idea that if you're getting a potato, potatoes actually do last quite some time, but definitely not packed in silos, sitting somewhere waiting to be shipped off or being stored in huge, you know, I don't even know, 50 pound bags in some places, or probably even more. It's just from kind of a whole food, freshness, local perspective. I would go with the potato, see how she does. Generally what we tell people is to do the fleshy part and avoid the skin. It’s like that everything you know about nutrition is wrong kind of deal, where we've been told to eat the skins and not the inside. If you're just looking kind of for a calorie punch, which it sounds like, you know, usually for young kids what we're trying to do is get in a bunch of food. I love the white potato, even sweet potato, but white potato with grass-fed butter I think is a great plan.

SCOTT MILLS: What do you think about maybe blending some, I don't know, broccoli or some sort of vegetable into it?

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, I think…I actually think that doing it like mashed with that, kind of adding a little bit of something green or even adding some pureed carrots in there, kind of bulking it up or making it interesting. Yeah…

SCOTT MILLS: Sure.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: That's a good one.

SCOTT MILLS: You like that idea?

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah.

SCOTT MILLS: I'm definitely on board with you, potato vs. rice. I'd take the potato.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah. All right.

SCOTT MILLS: And Kirsten askScott Mills: “The biggest fear for me has been making the fermented things. It’s scary to me. Just wish a magic fairy (or store brand) would appear with something that was pure, sugar free, and good to eat. I think it would really help my off and on digestive issues.”

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Well, it depends on where she lives. There could be some store brands that are pretty good. I've actually noticed in my Whole Foods now finally Real Pickles brand is available, which is a really great sauerkraut brand. The thing about pre-made store-bought sauerkraut, which, you know, I'm happy to support some of these smaller businesses is that they're usually at least around $6 a jar, and you could make that same jar for probably a quarter or 50 cents.

SCOTT MILLS: Right.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: One of our mutual friends, right, has a book coming out that…do you want to tell people about the book or…?

SCOTT MILLS: Yeah. Another local Pittsburgh native, Jill Ciciarelli, has a book coming out called Fermented, and it is a Paleo version, I guess, of fermentation. A whole book on it looks awesome, amazing pictures by our, again our friends Bill Staley and Hayley from Food Lovers. And that's available August 6th, 2013.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, and I'm actually going to be writing the forward for that book, so I'm really excited. Jill's amazing. She has some really cool ideas and I think, you know, I've put up a blog post about making sauerkraut and about making kombucha, but Jill is my go-to. Like whenever someone asks me a question about fermentation, I'm like, I think you should ask Jill. Her webpage or her website and her Facebook are called First Comes Health, so I'll always tag First Comes Health on Facebook, and you can check out First Comes..I think it's www.firstcomeshealth.com. We'll link to it. But I think that might be a really good book to check out, to just feel a little more secure with what you're doing. And in the meantime, keep checking. Check your local Whole Foods. Check a co-op. You know, get online and look for a grocery co-op in your area. They usually have some cool brands. There's probably 3 or 4 or 5 brands that I've seen sort of around the country in either Whole Foods or different, like natural food stores that are pretty good. What's another one I can think of? Oh, my favorite is Farmhouse Kraut. That's on the West Coast. They have it in Texas and in California in Whole Foods stores. Real Pickles. There's a couple of other brands. What's it? Wild Brine.

SCOTT MILLS: Wild Brine. Yeah.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: That's a really good one. So, you know, you don't have to do it on your own. You get some different benefits doing it on your own, the bacteria that you pick up in your own environment's going to be a little bit different than bacteria wherever they make it. But I think it's fine if you do want to just buy it or try, you know, try some kombucha, those kinds of things. I mean, it's not sugar free, the kombucha, but what's added is mostly fermented out, so it's kind of your call there.

SCOTT MILLS: One of the things this question reminded me of, actually, was back to the CSA question in how to use some of these vegetables up. You know, if you do have a CSA share that has a bunch of cabbage, you know, that's a good option to do with it.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah. Or carrots or..

SCOTT MILLS: Make a batch if you're feeling up to it.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, that would be a good time. I know people get carrots a lot, too, so…

SCOTT MILLS: Sure.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Cool. Well, oh, I didn't give you a little note on how we wrap up the show, so maybe I'll go ahead and wrap it up today.

SCOTT MILLS: Sounds good.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: So if you enjoyed today's show, go ahead over to iTunes and leave us a review and a rating. We'd really appreciate it. We are here every week. You can find myself, Diane, at www.blog.balancedbites.com. You can find Dr. Scott over at…what's your website now?

SCOTT MILLS: www.livewellchiropracticpa.com or www.drscottamills.com.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: That's the one I was like, I knew there's a new one. www.drscottamills.com. We'll link to you in the show notes. If you want to check out Dr. Scott, if you live in the Pittsburgh area, and you're looking for a great chiropractor, just get some help from Dr. Scott, give him a call and check him out in his office. And we'll be back next week. I think we are going to have a guest next week, but not going to tease that yet because we’re having some scheduling snafus, partially my fault with this whole moving craziness, but we'll be back next week and we'll be talking with Liz again, then.

SCOTT MILLS: Good, you can get some snappier quotes from her next week.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Next week. I liked changing it up, though. I think it's really fun. I think our listeners appreciate

SCOTT MILLS: Have a good time. Thanks for having me on.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Awesome. Have a good night.

SCOTT MILLS: Good night.

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