Topics:
1. What’s new for you from Diane & Liz [2:28]
2. A new thing I’m into: Vital Choice seaweed salad and salmon [12:49]
3. Optimal preparation for superfood intake [17:36]
4. Supplementing with BCAAs [26:24]
5. Multivitamins and prenatal vitamins [30:11]
6. Continuous supplementation versus cycling [36:16]
7. High dose supplementation or overdosing? [40:55]
8. Probiotic supplementation and knowing when your gut is healthy [47:.15]
9. #Treatyoself: Paleo Treats and comfy pants [56:09]
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You’re listening to the Balanced Bites podcast episode 220.
Welcome to the Balanced Bites podcast with Diane Sanfilippo and Liz Wolfe. Diane is a certified nutrition consultant, and the New York Times bestselling author of Practical Paleo, The 21-Day Sugar Detox, and co-author of Mediterranean Paleo Cooking. Liz is a nutritional therapy practitioner, and the best-selling author of Eat the Yolks and The Purely Primal Skincare Guide. Together, Diane and Liz answer your questions, interview leading health and wellness experts, and share their take on modern paleo living with their friendly and balanced approach. Remember our disclaimer: The materials and content within this podcast are intended as general information only, and are not to be considered a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.
Liz Wolfe: Oh, hi everyone! It’s Liz. I’m here with Diane.
Diane Sanfilippo: Oh, hey.
Liz Wolfe: Seems like we’ve been on the phone for like a half an hour already.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Oh, technology. People would think that after more than 4 years of recording this podcast that it would get easier, and we’d have a streamlined approach, and everything would go very smoothly from week to week. Alas, this is not true.
Liz Wolfe: Tis not the case. If somebody wants to donate a podcast studio that can be teleported; no, no, no, and a teleportation device by which we can be teleported to the podcast studio to the same location with the same internet every time.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: We’ll talk about getting things a little bit more on track. {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. I think it’s all working out just fine though, so yeah.
Liz Wolfe: Works for me. Keeps me on my toes. So, how about we hear from one of our sponsors?
Liz Wolfe: We love having Paleo Treats as a podcast sponsor. Not only are the founders, Nick and Lee, some of the original pioneers of the modern paleo movement, but Paleo Treats is also one of the FedEx top 10 small businesses in the US; and, they’ve got a high bar for taste. Paleo Treats make great gifts. We love the Mustang bar, the Bandito bar, and of course, the Cacao Now, Brownie Bomb, and the Mac Attack. Right now they’ll give you free shipping with any $99 order. Check them out http://www.paleotreats.com/.
1. What’s new for you from Diane & Liz [2:28]
Liz Wolfe: Alright friend. Friend Diane. San Francisco friend with the fabulous life in California, how are things going? What are your updates?
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} I don’t know about all that fabulousness, but things are good. What has everybody been up to? What’s the 411? So, Facebook told me on this day 5 years ago, which I’m sure some people don’t enjoy the reminders, but actually…
Liz Wolfe: I love it!
Diane Sanfilippo: I kind of like these reminders. Ok good.
Liz Wolfe: Except for when really awkward posts, like old things from ex, ex, ex-boyfriends. That’s a little weird.
Diane Sanfilippo: I don’t think I was on Facebook that long ago.
Liz Wolfe: Well, I think we missed that prime time when it’s like, oh shoot. Back when I was first starting on Facebook in college, we still had to scan our party pics and upload them.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing}
Liz Wolfe: To Facebook.
Diane Sanfilippo: Facebook started after I was out.
Liz Wolfe: So it was harder to get incriminating stuff.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, I was already out of college, so. I’ve got a few years on you.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: So, this day 5 years ago apparently I posted on Facebook letting gyms know that I was offering the Practical Paleo nutrition seminar. What? 5 years ago.
Liz Wolfe: I would felt like it was longer, because I felt like we did it for 5 years, and then that was 5 years ago, and I was pregnant for 5 years.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing} I guess, I think I was teaching seminars for about a year on my own, and then you and I taught them for, I think, just over a year together.
Liz Wolfe: I remember exactly which toilet I was sitting on when Hayley sent me a text that you might call me about doing the workshops with you. {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing} Was it the same toilet from which you recorded the first episode of the Balanced Bites podcast? {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: {laughing}
Diane Sanfilippo: I’m just kidding.
Liz Wolfe: No, funny enough. Different toilets. Wow.
Diane Sanfilippo: So yeah, I thought that was pretty funny. I can’t believe it was only 5 years ago, but also I think that’s kind of a cool little insight and update. And I actually posted it to the Build a Badass Business Facebook group just to be some inspiration and motivation for people. I mean, I was hustling so hard for probably 3 to 4 years growing the business, blogging, traveling to teach seminars, dragging you along to teach seminars.
I actually remember one of the last ones I taught without you was January probably, I’m thinking it was 2012, because I was in Texas and I remember people were like, where’s Liz? Why doesn’t Liz do this with you? Because we were podcasting for so long by then, and then I remembered that I just kind of started roping you in, I think that spring, and we did it for at least a year thereafter I think, or so. It was really funny. Anyway, that was just a cute little look back, and one of the women in the group was like, I can see myself in that picture! She was like, that’s the back of my head. I just realized that’s such a crazy thing, people came to the seminars, they’re still with us. We’ve been teaching them for all this time.
I think it will be really fun in the coming months whenever it gets finished, the Balanced Bites master class, when that comes out. That’s going to be our big way to connect back to everyone who listens to this show for you guys to all kind of get the foundational nutrition information that we’ve been talking about all in one place, and connect with Liz and I, and I think that’s going to be super fun. Anyway, kind of a random little update.
And if you do listen to Build a Badass Business podcast, I apologize, I had to take a break. I just was doing too much, and I was like, nope, that’s got to stop for a couple of weeks. I’ll be back to that.
The only other updates around here; this episode will air on December 3rd, so we obviously have a new 21-Day Sugar Detox that always kicks off for the beginning of the year, so that will kick off in the beginning of January. Let’s see what the date will be; I think it’s going to be January 4th, so if you’re celebrating new years, you have plenty of time to kind of recover and get prepared. But you can check out details, you guys all know that, at 21DaySugarDetox.com. But I wanted to remind everyone that we have a whole bunch of coaches, so if you’re somebody who feels like it’s just the wild, wild west out there. You know, maybe you’re tackling a challenge and maybe there’s not a local gym you can do it with, or you don’t have a friend to join you, or you just want extra support, somebody who is really going to help you on the journey. My team is amazingly helpful at answering questions and all that through social media, but it’s just not the same.
I have a coach right now, one on one, for my nutrition stuff just to help keep me accountable, and our coaches are offering groups that are big and small, in person as well as online and I think you guys will find them to be amazingly valuable resources. Most of them are also nutrition coaches and fitness coaches otherwise, so I feel like it’s such a great way to start to get to know, either just new folks who can help you out online or in your local community. So go to 21DaySugarDetox.com/coaches, or you can just hit the coaches button from the website and find them. You could do a search on there and find them locally.
And then just a reminder about the new Balanced Bites website, really easy to search recipes. We have still been adding updates for the podcast archives, so I know Liz you and I were just talking about that a minute ago, but we had a little snafu with the page for the archives on the podcast, so I know folks listening are probably looking for back episodes and whatnot, so we should get that updates within the next couple of weeks for you guys. But you can search recipes super easily. We’ve been updating some stuff there, and I’m pumped for you guys to do that. That’s it for my solo updates.
Liz, I have one update that’s actually for both of us, and this is that if you guys are listening to this live when the show airs, you’ve still got a few more days to catch the Kindle sale $2.99 for Practical Paleo, Mediterranean Paleo Cooking, or Eat the Yolks, or the matchbook, which will be 99 cents if you buy the print version, you can get the Kindle version for 99 cents. I believe, Liz let me know; I believe the audio book is available on matchbook, too.
Liz Wolfe: What!?
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, somebody was saying that.
Liz Wolfe: I should know that about my own book.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, somebody said they got the audio book on matchbook, which I’m like; that’s amazing.
Liz Wolfe: That is amazing.
Diane Sanfilippo: You should check. Actually, I could probably check too. But I think they said they got it for $1.99 or something; some crazy awesome price. So you guys check that out. Don’t miss it; I mean, hey, you guys listen to the show all the time. I think you would love to find out if you could get that. So yeah, that’s it. What are your updates?
Liz Wolfe: For people that don’t know, I read the audio book.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, so it will be like.
Liz Wolfe: Like, all by myself.
Diane Sanfilippo: Like listening to a podcast, but better. {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: Yeah, so if you like listening to me talk, then you’ll love Eat the Yolks on audio. I spent months in a dingy, university of central Missouri basement with asbestos and; I mean I was dedicated to getting that thing out. So… {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: Grab that if you can, man. That was a fun experience. So, my updates; I just had a baby on a plane. Well, I didn’t have a baby on a plane, I just had my baby on a plane. Actually, a series of plane rides for Thanksgiving, so now I need to nap forever. And, I’m tired. That’s about that. But she did quite well actually; didn’t tick anybody off too badly. I ate all the things over Thanksgiving. What else; I’m kind of in the middle of trying to see how long it’s humanly possible to go without a haircut and only wearing ponytails and not getting a pedicure. Right now I have these last threads of evidence of a single pedicure from literally I think probably 17 months ago. So, if anyone was wondering how long the last shred of nail polish from a pedicure can last…
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: I’m thinking almost 2 years. I think we might round out about 2 years on that. So that’s what’s going on.
Diane Sanfilippo: I think you deserve some kind of award for that.
Liz Wolfe: I don’t know man. I mean, there are people that are a lot more graceful about motherhood than I have been, and I’m sure people get sick of me talking about how, like, off my rocker I am. I mean, it’s fun and it’s great, but I’m not organized. I will never be that mom who is like; well, we have fun time play group at 8 a.m., and then nap at 9:30, and then we eat at 11:25, and then we Skype with grandma. I just, I’m not. I just, it’s like a tornado here, and it’s fine. I kind of like it that way. You don’t become a different person when you become a mom, I don’t think.
Diane Sanfilippo: I was going to say, I mean, it sounds like that’s kind of how {laughs} that’s kind of how you were before, Liz.
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: So it doesn’t surprise me.
Liz Wolfe: Not type A.
Diane Sanfilippo: But I actually; yeah, and just not a super scheduler. I’m not a scheduler at all, but I think probably as she gets older you’ll probably have a little bit of; well, I’m sure you’re a little on a schedule when it comes to sleeping thing and all that as much as you can be, and I think most parents, they do find that a schedule just kind of helps keep everything going. But yeah, definitely not to 6 different activities all day and all of that. {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: We’ve got a groove for sure. I’m flexible. A routine, I guess, more than a schedule. There are things we do every day like eat and sometimes nap. But yeah, I mean, I’m just kind of going with the flow. I don’t want to be too hard on myself during the first year just because; I don’t know, if I don’t have to put pressure on myself for certain things then why would I?
Diane Sanfilippo: I like it. I think that sounds pretty legit.
Liz Wolfe: Yep.
2. A new thing I’m into: Vital Choice seaweed salad and salmon [12:49]
Liz Wolfe: Alright, so how about a new thing we’re into lately.
Diane Sanfilippo: Alright. What are you into? Tell me, tell me, tell me.
Liz Wolfe: I’m super into the seaweed salad from Vital Choice. I love it. Have you tried it?
Diane Sanfilippo: I haven’t. Is it lame if the thing that I’m into lately is also from Vital Choice? And that was totally unplanned?
Liz Wolfe: Not even planned.
Diane Sanfilippo: And not; hmm?
Liz Wolfe: Not even planned.
Diane Sanfilippo: Not even planned. So, ok, no I haven’t but tell me about it, and tell me why you’re into it?
Liz Wolfe: And this is not part of our sponsorship agreement.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, that’s why I was like {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: This is completely {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: Independent.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah. Well, I don’t know, it’s just so tasty. Maybe my body just really needs some iodine right now, I’m not sure. But it’s just this really tasty, I sprinkle some coconut aminos on there for a little of that, I don’t know if that’s umami, or what, but it’s just so good. My body is loving it.
Diane Sanfilippo: That’s legit. Legit is my word of the day. {laughs} I just realized I’ve said it like 10 times already.
Liz Wolfe: It works.
Diane Sanfilippo: I have been into the; I don’t know if I talked about this before on the podcast, but I’ve been doing my daily Periscopes about my meal plan experience, which I’m like a month into now.
Liz Wolfe: Daily Periscopes?
Diane Sanfilippo: Dude. You and I are very different {laughing} when it comes to that stuff. I do so much better just hoping on a random Periscope video, whether or not I’ve showered, than I ever would writing a blog post. Asking me to write a blog post is just; it’s the worst punishment ever. But just turning on a video for 10 minutes and talking to people; way easier.
So anyway, yeah. It’s cool, it’s cool. So Vital Choice also has; they have 2 different options, well I’m sure they have more than this, but they have these pre-sliced portions. There’s one that’s 4 ounces, and there’s one that’s slightly less expensive, you can get 5 pounds of multiple sizes, which I’m sure you’ve already seen this, but just so our listeners here. You get 5 pounds of slightly varying sized portions; I feel like they’re around 4-6 ounces, and I’ve been super into them because for those of you who are scared to cook fish, fish is actually one of the easiest things and fastest things to cook. So going back to our Sonya Morgan toaster oven {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: I don’t even know what we were calling it, but basically what I’ve been doing with these little portions of salmon, because the plan I’m on right now is pretty high protein, so I’m searing it skin side down, I’m just putting a little bit of salt on the skin, searing it in a cast iron skillet. I have a really small one that fits one or two of those little portions. So I sear it skin side down for, I don’t know, two minutes or so, and then I literally pop it into the toaster oven broiler for about 4 minutes, and that’s it. So the whole thing is 6 minutes to cook this piece of fish. And it’s awesome. It’s just so, so fast and so easy. So I’m loving that. And I’m totally into it, and I’m just kind of obsessed with filling my freezer with all kinds of little portioned out pieces of salmon, because they’re delish.
And my skin has been looking great; I think a combination of, which we have a skin care episode coming up in a few weeks, after we hear, next week’s episode is about bone broth, which kind of talks about skin too, and then after that we have a green smoothies episode, and then we’re going to talk about skin care. But between the collagen peptides I’ve been taking, and getting more broth in my diet, and the omega-3s from the fish, and my C-ex, my skin is pretty rocking right now.
Liz Wolfe: Thanks for the shout out; that wasn’t planned either.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} What?
Liz Wolfe: I’m glad you’re liking it. I just heard from Cindy Sexton of Paleo Dish, and she’s also loving the C-ex. So, I love to hear that. Love the positive reinforcement; keep it coming.
Liz Wolfe: Our podcast sponsorship today comes from Vital Choice, an online purveyor of the world’s best wild seafood delivered right to your door; because juggling a busy life shouldn’t mean you have to forgo healthy meals. At www.vitalchoice.com, you’ll find wild Alaskan salmon, halibut, tuna, sable fish, and cod, as well as prawns, crab, and scallops. You’ll also find grass-fed organic Wagyu beef, free range heritage chicken, fresh frozen organic berries, and dark organic chocolates. Make a vital choice by eating the highest quality food you can. Vital Choice; come home to real food.
3. Optimal preparation for superfood intake [17:36]
Diane Sanfilippo: Alright, let’s get into some listener questions, and I think this week what we’re going to do is, I’m going to read the questions. Me, Diane! I’m going to read the questions because I think Liz is going to kick us off with a lot more of the answer this week, so in order to give her voice a little bit of a rest and let you guys hear me a little bit. We have a little intro for this since we’re part two; so what do you want to say about our little intro?
Liz Wolfe: Well, since I kind of bop in and out these days, I’m not sure how many episodes we’ve got in between the first supplements and superfoods episode and this one. But I wanted to do a quick review; in our part one we differentiated between the two, the difference between a supplement and a superfood. But the recap is, a supplement is something that’s manufactured or created by a company for us to consume, which sounds bad but it’s not necessarily bad. There are a few that we like. I’ve talked about the prenatal from Pure Synergy that I like, for example, and that’s one that’s manufactured, yet it’s created from high quality, natural ingredients. Diane and I have both kind of given our stamp of approval to Nutreince, which is a multi, and then there are also supplements that provide digestive support, like enzymes or ox bile. Ox bile is a supplement that’s basically required for gallbladder support if the gallbladder has been removed.
And then a superfood is basically the best of nature. It’s minimally processed, natural sources of concentrated nutrition, things like cod liver oil, ghee, fish eggs, or seaweed salad for example. Maybe things like collagen peptides fall a little closer to the supplements side, maybe not. There’s definitely gray area, and maybe desiccated liver pills fall a little closer to the superfood realm. There’s definitely a spectrum here, but as long as we’ve kind of got that concept solidified, I think we’re good.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. I do think that we also have the crossover of the super food supplement. {laughs} Like those desiccated liver pills, and the collage peptides. I think some of that stuff is either; well the collage peptides are a little bit more supplement, as you said, but the liver pills definitely like a superfood supplement, which I feel like we’re just combining those words.
Alright, well we have a lot of questions; you guys, we’ve pulled a lot of these from the Balanced Bites Instagram page, where we’re posting calls for questions very, very frequently, so if you’ve not checked that out yet, please check it out. Make sure that you get your questions entered in there. Each week, we’re posting different topics, so it will be a really quick and easy way for you guys to do that. And also just a quick reminder; if you don’t want to post your question publicly, you can absolutely post it via the podcast question submission form that you can get to from Balanced Bites.
Anyway, ok. We have a question here; I’m not sure if I’ll be able to read all of the handles, but this one look like Megan M. Hawkins asks; “what’s the best way to prepare superfoods, raw versus cooked, for example, to get the optimal amount of nutrients from them?”
Liz Wolfe: Well, kind of funny that I get to answer a cooking question before you do, so you’ll have to add to this, whatever you’ve got. I just said this depends. This is a really good question, because I think a lot of people that come to us come from the raw food realm, and everything raw, definitely everything raw for enzymes. What a lot of people don’t realize is that cooking kind of frees up the nutrition from certain foods to make it more bioavailable to the body. So, for example, with broth or stock or whatever you want to call it; there’s actually an Instagram account out there that is solely devoted to correcting people to using that terminology wrong. I don’t know if you’ve seen that? It’s pretty bad.
Diane Sanfilippo: I have. I think I’ve seen it on Twitter, too.
Liz Wolfe: Oh, man. Get a life.
Diane Sanfilippo: I think I had to block them, I was like, you’re annoying me. {laughing}
Liz Wolfe: It’s just like, come on. I mean, I know there’s a huge difference; I get it. But, nah. Just save the world with your free time. Anyway, so between broth, stock, or whatever, for a shorter cook time you’ll end up with more intact amino acids and less mineral density. If you cook longer, some of the amino acids are broken down, but the mineral content will be higher. So, when it comes to broth or stock, you might want to go back and forth and do both.
And then for liver, this is just so much fun, this question. So, for liver, part of the reason I actually really like raw liver, which I know I’m going to get 2 people out of however many thousands of people listen to this show that would even be willing to try raw liver, but I have this raw liver smoothie shot that I put up on RealFoodLiz.com a while back; I like it because liver is really high in B6, vitamin B6, and B6 is easily destroyed by heat. And it’s a really critical nutrient and cofactor for so, so many things, including magnesium utilization and almost everyone is at least borderline deficient in magnesium, so you need B6. That’s kind of why I like the raw liver deal. I think that might have something to do with why raw liver is just so pro energy.
But then again, you also have raw foods where you’ve got all of this nutrition that either doesn’t need to be cooked for it to be palatable, or it doesn’t need to be cooked to be bioavailable. So raw seaweed is a great source of iodine, you don’t need to cook it. I should probably point out that our sponsor, Vital Choice, has the only prepared seaweed salad I would ever eat. I found out from somebody recently, maybe it was you Diane, that most prepared seaweed salads, like you would get at a restaurant or you would get at the store, are full of colorants and all kinds of crap. Was that you?
Diane Sanfilippo: It may have been. I’ve definitely been on the tip to regular grocery store or restaurant seaweed salad where it’s super bright green.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: I think the one from Vital Choice is not that bright green color, right?
Liz Wolfe: It’s not neon green.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.
Liz Wolfe: And it’s also frozen, so it’s like, it’s not sitting. Those things sit for so long, and of course the color is going to degrade if they don’t put a bunch of crap in it. So, that’s another reason why I’m so into the seaweed salad from Vital Choice, because I love seaweed salad, but I haven’t had it in years because I knew what was in it.
Anyway, I do think a lot of superfoods are; they do come raw, like seaweed, cod liver oil that’s not heated. We recommend that you choose a brand that’s not heat processed, so that would be considered raw. Fermented foods, which we like in moderate amounts are generally raw. But those are my ideas on that question. Did I miss anything?
Diane Sanfilippo: No, I don’t think so. And I think this question she is asking about optimal nutrients, and I think when it comes to something like liver; if you’re hearing Liz say it’s optimally prepared raw, but you’re not at all eating liver right now, don’t let that stop you.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: This is meant to say, ok, if we’re talking about how we can get the most nutrition from it, then that’s part of it. But I do think that getting the liver in however you can is definitely a good idea.
One other kind of random thing that’s not necessarily about this. It’s kind of related to this question, but for people who; I don’t know if I’ve talked about this on the podcast before, but I know I talked about it somewhere. {laughs} It could have been just a Periscope video, but for people who are hearing us talk about liver and B vitamins, and perhaps you don’t eat that type of protein; maybe you eat seafood, but you don’t eat any kind of animals that we’d be getting liver from; octopus is really high in B vitamins as well as iron, so that’s one thing that I recommend to people in terms of some kind of food to eat to get some of these nutrients. And I think it’s another good one, too, even if you do eat other animal foods if you're just not getting enough liver, then octopus is another good one. It’s not like everybody is getting that all over the place, but if you’re up for trying them, and it’s on a menu, especially at a Greek or Mediterranean restaurant, just go for it. Really nutritious. So there you go.
Liz Wolfe: Fab.
4. Supplementing with BCAAs [26:24]
Diane Sanfilippo: Alright, this next question is from M. Healed 10; “BCAAs,” which is short for branch chain amino acids, “are they worth it for the price, or can real food make up for it?”
Liz Wolfe: My answer is I don’t know. I guess it depends on your goals. BCAAs are essential amino acids, and I think supplementing with them in isolation, like you’re actually taking a BCAA supplement, it’s generally best or in any way purposeful for athletes looking to optimize post workout recovery for competition, and it’s not necessarily something that I would suggest to weekend warriors. I think the key here is that it definitely can’t replace real food nutrition, but if you’ve got everything figured out food-wise, and you’re just looking for that extra edge recovery-wise, you could try them and see what you notice. I don’t think there’s any harm in that.
You can of course get them from food; chicken, salmon, eggs, so almost everyone on a real food diet will have plenty of BCAAs just naturally coming in, but I think the point of supplementing is to have that instant availability to the system for people who have incredibly specific goals. Body building, figure competition, weight lifting competition and whatnot, and in my opinion, if you don’t fall into that category of micromanaging everything, then it might not be worth worrying about. Because there’s just; you know, if you’re going in, and you’re like, well I want to optimize my recovery, and yet every night you’re eating, you know, half a pizza with trans fats and whatever it is, I think you’re probably missing the point there.
But then again, I’m not a hard charging, competition worthy athlete. So, maybe there’s something I’m missing. If folks out there disagree, feel free to shoot us a message on the podcast Instagram account and let me know what you think.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, it seems like you're saying for athletes, for people who are trying to get a lot of protein into their diet, very specifically, or for people who aren’t able to get a ton of protein in, where maybe they’re not eating as many animal foods for some reason. That could be a good way to go in terms of supplementation, but definitely eating real, whole foods is always going to be your best way to get proteins so that you’re getting amino acids in complementary levels, and balanced out.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: I don’t think it’s; I think it really just depends, like you said. It just depends on the goals and the person, and I think for a lot of these it’s about trying it, see how you feel, see what results you get, and then deciding if that’s something that works for you. I mean, I definitely wouldn’t take it just for the sake of taking it, on and on, as with any supplements. Take it, see what benefits you may or may not be receiving in a month, max maybe 2 months, and then go from there, you know?
Liz Wolfe: You know something that I didn’t put in my notes about this is that if people are really trying to get that performance edge, they should be eating liver.
Diane Sanfilippo: Mm-hmm.
Liz Wolfe: I’m sorry, liver is so, so important.
Diane Sanfilippo: And sardines. {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: Liver and sardines. Vitamin A, first of all, preformed vitamin A like what you find in liver, is essential for protein synthesis. So a lot of folks that are just trying to dump all of this protein into their bodies with the goal of muscle synthesis and improved recovery, you really have to make sure you’re also getting in vitamin A, choline, and other cofactors that you need to even use that protein properly. So that’s another thing to think about.
5. Multivitamins and prenatal vitamins [30:11]
Diane Sanfilippo: Cool, cool. Alright, this next question is from Grateful Paleo. “Would the Calton’s Nutreince be a good choice for a prenatal for before and during pregnancy? I have been taking it for a few months, and have been loving it, but as my husband and I start thinking about trying to have a baby, I’m curious if this is a good one to continue or if a supplement formulated specifically for pregnancy is better to start taking. Thanks so much; I look forward to listening to the episode.”
Liz Wolfe: Ok, this is. {laughs} You know what’s funny, I’ve had a couple of people reach out to me via email that are like, we want to start trying to have a baby but we’re waiting for Baby Making and Beyond to come out. {laughing} It makes me so sad! Oh, I know. Do it, do it. Just do it. It will help you no matter what point you’re at in your journey. So, yeah. Nutreince is good as a prenatal.
I’ve been doing some looking at how the Calton’s designed Nutreince, and I really do like it. They’ve done such a good job looking at the science around what nutrients inhibit one another, and they’ve got it separated into the morning and the evening, I guess you could say dose.
But I’m also going to say that it’s a push/pull for me on this topic, and this is something I spent months wrestling with for Baby Making and Beyond, because I go back and forth. It’s like, you really can’t ever replace the nutrition from food, but pregnancy can be such a delicate time when the appetite might be low, there are food aversions, and it’s really helpful to get some nutrition in a form that is basically tasteless. I mean, I know a lot of people would not be able to touch liver if they wanted to during pregnancy.
However, I’m working on some recommendations for prenatal strategies that don’t rely solely on prenatals, and I’m working on that for Baby Making and Beyond. There are a few nutrients that we need so much of that are so important during pregnancy that aren’t going to be found in any prenatal I’ve seen in their natural forms. And kind of on the flip side of that, there are also a few nutrients that are kind of overdone in prenatals right now, as well. For example, right now methylated folate is a huge thing. People are starting to recognize the impact that MTHFR has on the metabolism and on things like pregnancy and the ability to get pregnant and carry a pregnancy to term.
The prenatals I like are always going to either contain methylated folate or natural folate straight from food; however, folate is kind of this major focus right now when, even those people with MTHFR; choline is actually much more of a concern, yet not many people are really talking about that, and I don’t know that there are any prenatals out there that actually supply choline with cofactors in the amounts that you need for pregnancy and pre pregnancy and breastfeeding. So the only people I’ve ever really seen talking about that are Paul Jaminet and Laura Schoenfeld, who wrote a whole graduate paper on choline for pregnancy. They’re huge choline proponents, and so am I.
Choline is actually, and I think we talked about this a little bit; maybe we talked about it in the last supplement episode, I can’t remember. Maybe I talk about it later in this episode, but choline is actually probably more important for folks with MTHFR than even methylated folate. And that’s probably generally the case for almost everybody. Obviously, work with your practitioner on that, but it’s just something to really be thinking about when you’re looking at the nutrients, the individual nutrients that you’re getting in before pregnancy and during.
So anyway, my preference would be a rotation of a prenatal, say with other super foods, like cod liver oil and liver, tons and tons of egg yolks, overall just a lot of choline dense foods, and that would be my strategy. It’s just really risky when you tell somebody; this is a great prenatal, and then all of a sudden; ok, good I don’t have to eat these other real foods. Which actually you still do; you still really do have to be conscientious about that. The end.
Diane Sanfilippo: Those are good points. I bet Chris Masterjohn has written about choline.
Liz Wolfe: Oh yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: Maybe not as related to prenatals and pregnancy.
Liz Wolfe: Yes, he has.
Diane Sanfilippo: But we probably talked a bit about this on our interview with him, which was, at this point, probably years ago. But if you guys want to go back into the archives and look for the episode with Chris Masterjohn; it’s spelled just the way it sounds. That would probably be a really good one to listen to as well; just in general. {laughs} he’s pretty much, if he’s in a room, just ask a question and let him talk for an hour, and you’ll be like; I don’t know, I just should pay you for that education because I just learned so much. Super smart guy.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: Awesome. And then one other thing about the Nutreince multivitamin, which I’m sure we’ll be able to throw some links to this in the podcast show notes, but just in general, it doesn’t have super doses of anything, so I think that’s another reason. I don’t know all the in’s and out’s of prenatals, but I think with multivitamins in general, a lot of them are megadoses of different things where you’ll see multiple thousands and multiple hundreds of percentage of the RDA on things. With Nutreince, they really don’t do that. I mean, the intention is that you’re taking it every day, and that it’s kind of, you know, it is kind of a back up, slight insurance policy type of deal. It’s not really meant to dig you out of a hole of not eating real food and all of that, and it’s just meant to be a moderate level of supplementation. And I think that is one of the things that’s kind of nice about it, too. It’s easier to absorb because it’s coming in a liquid form. I just really do like it, as well. Anyway. That’s it on that one.
6. Continuous supplementation versus cycling [36:16]
Diane Sanfilippo: Alright. This next question is from Pearlman B. “is it better to take all the things all the time, or cycle them on and off as needed.”
Liz Wolfe: Well I guess it depends on what you’re talking about. {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: But I’m guessing she’s talking about supplements. I am a fan of cycling consistently in kind of short windows unless there are signs of excess or deficiency, and then you kind of tweak as needed, which is probably extremely obscure. But for example, when it comes to cod liver oil, I am becoming of the mind that that’s something you just take in higher amounts maybe when you are worried about illness, kind of at the beginning of the winter or something like that. Or, you just take it once a week. Not necessarily every day.
When it comes to magnesium, that’s something I would probably take all the time, because we’re just so easily depleted and it’s hard to get magnesium sufficient. When it would come to something like iron, I would probably say short windows and then cycle off, or supplement more aggressively; or, I’m sorry, add superfoods like liver more aggressively for a period of time if you’re dealing with iron deficiency, and then cycle off of them, because iron is also something that bad stuff can kind of feed on, and you don’t want iron overloading your system.
So, I don’t know; I kind of look at it as there are a few things I would maybe do all of the time, and most of those things with the exception of magnesium would be superfoods. So egg yolks coming in all the time; get those egg yolks any and all the time. Chicken liver once a week, seaweed salad once or twice a week, salmon a couple of times a week, that type of thing. But as far as worrying about just stuffing down everything every single day, I would say just cycle things on and off.
Kind of like elderberry; you know, you’ll do that when you feel something coming on or maybe once a week for maintenance, and then if you really, really need it, you kind of blow it out for a few days. I don’t know.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, yeah.
Liz Wolfe: I mean, I guess there are a ton of different ways you could go.
Diane Sanfilippo: No, I’m with you on that. I think part of it is people will order some kind of supplement, whether directed by a naturopath or just they read or learn something, then they want to try it out. I think reevaluating before you reorder anything is always a good idea. You know? Typically, you’ll get a one or two-month supply of something, and then see what you think of it.
We even did this when we started; when I started taking the collagen peptides, you know. It’s just a protein supplement, basically, but I had a sample to try, and you know, I waited to see how I felt before I kind of went all in to order the big tub of it, because I’m like; well, let me even see if I like what this is doing in my body, and I’m not just going to take it because supposedly it does XYZ for people. You know, you have to run it by your own folder.
Just a side note here, this is one of the reasons why in Practical Paleo, when I talked about different supplements that are potentially helpful for different health conditions or different goals that people may have, I wrote what the nutrient was as well as what it does. Because I think a lot of people have these piles and bags of supplements, and you start taking them for a reason and then you kind of lose sight of why you were taking it, and you either just keep buying it or keep taking it without reevaluating; what was I even taking this for, and is that even still valid right now? So I think it’s important to run things by that filter.
If you are taking some things, and you want to check it out; open up Practical Paleo. I’m sure whatever supplement you have, in one of the meal plans, it’s probably there explained a little bit about what it does. But what I also did in the book was talk about certain nutrients and the foods that contain them. So if you are like; “oh, maybe I’ve been taking this thing as a supplement”, and now you’re at the point where you realize, “I probably could be getting that from food, what are some foods that contain that nutrient in high quantities?” You’ll be able to learn that right from the book.
So I think that will really help some people out who are looking to; for example, maybe you were taking a B vitamin supplement, and realize, “Ok, I don’t need to take the supplement anymore.” Obviously, we talked about liver, but I’ve got all things listed out in there that have high levels of different nutrients. So that could be helpful.
7. High dose supplementation or overdosing? [40:55]
Diane Sanfilippo: Alright, this next one is from Real Food Americana, kind of on the heels of both of our previous questions, actually. So, this question says; “my naturopath has me taking B12/folate supplements for MTHFR, and it’s about 2000% of the daily recommended value. Can you overdose on supplements? Are there any benefits to taking high amounts, or do you just eliminate it all in pee? Should I just be trying to get B12 and folate through foods; what foods are best?”
Liz Wolfe: Mmm. Real Food Americana probably has some really, really yellow pee. {laughs} Like, super neon. Ok, so this is really hard, because this field of study about MTHFR is so young, and we’ve talked about Ben Lynch, and I think a couple of the resources for people struggling with MTHFR; or, I’m sorry, the gene mutation MTHFR, and I love these resources that we’ve called out, but I also think we need to be really open to new information about this issue.
So, MTHFR can affect fertility, your ability to get pregnant; it can affect a lot of things. However, folks have to remember, and I think specifically in the paleo community, we like hacking ourselves. We like finding out exactly what we might have and how to deal with it, and I think a lot of folks ran for the 23 and Me genetic testing, and folks found out that they have one or more of the mutations, and immediately start freaking out and supplementing. I even think a lot of natural medicine practitioners, naturopaths maybe jumped on the supplementation train for “correction” this particular issue, which you can’t really correct it, that would be kind of the wrong word to use. Anyway, without really understanding a few things, which are really critical.
And I am by no means an expert on this, but I think the jury is still out on a couple of things. First of all, just because you have one or more of these SNPs; single nucleotide polymorphisms, I think is what it is. Just because you have it doesn’t mean it’s expressing. So you may be homozygous for whatever it is, and you’re actually not expressing that mutation, which means you would not be dealing with the consequences of an active mutation like that; am I making sense? Just because you’ve got something doesn’t mean it’s manifesting.
So if you have MTHFR, and you’re not experiencing any symptoms, then it’s possible that you don’t even need to worry about it beyond the framework of a real food diet rich in natural sources of folate and lots, and lots, and lots of choline.
So, when you say you’re taking B12 and folate for MTHFR, I’m just wondering if you actually are having expressions of this mutation, or if you’re just like; “oh shoot I have it! I need to start supplementing.” One of the things Paul Jaminet talks about in the Perfect Health Diet is that a folate issue might actually be a choline deficiency issue. So grab that book and see what you can find in there that sounds like you, and make sure you’re getting plenty of choline.
To me, if you are working with a really well versed practitioner, and are seeing improvement on whatever protocol, supplemental protocol that you’re on, then there’s no reason to stop. I think there is probably a level of repair that goes on, at least at the beginning for MTHFR folks that do need to be supplementing, so I guess it depends on your practitioner, how you’re body is reacting to it, what your body was expressing before you started supplementing, and what supplements you’re taking in and what form. So of course, it’s different. It’s not a really direct answer, but it’s one of those things where you have to have a great practitioner, you have to be really well informed on why you’re taking what you’re taking, and what you’re doing.
There’s just no protocol out there for this. It’s just not so simple as taking folate, methylated folate, and cofactors, which would be B12, I believe.
For folks that are getting ready for pregnancy, the levels of what you’re taking might need to change but then again the hope with a lot of these things is that you take some time in preconception, like 3 or 6 months, to figure out exactly what you are indeed dealing with and what might need corrective supplementation and what might not. Again, as I said before, you’ve got to get ample choline if you’re dealing with MTHFR, and that’s pretty much, you’ll find that in egg yolks, liver, cruciferous veggies, stuff like that.
So the answer is, yes, you can over supplement for something like MTHFR. I don’t think you can really OD on B vitamins; folate is one of them. But you can be really going overboard with tackling something that might not necessarily even be a problem. So I think the real answer to this question is, do a crap ton of research, make sure you’re actually having the issues that you think you’re having, and eat lots of choline.
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8. Probiotic supplementation and knowing when your gut is healthy [47:15]
Diane Sanfilippo: We’re going to move on to; I think we have time for one more question? What do you think?
Liz Wolfe: Yeah, I think one more.
Diane Sanfilippo: Ok. So this one I believe is from Kelly Fernald {laughs} that’s at least the Instagram handle. Ok, so this one says; “I took probiotics for about two months every day. Then I heard that you only need to take them until your gut biome regains health. I stopped taking them; so expensive, and starting eating fermented foods one to two times a day. I’m not really sure if my gut biome is healthy. Everything in my life is better since I switched to this lifestyle, so comparatively, my gut is a boss.” {Laughs} That’s amazing. “But does this mean that it’s actually healthy. I’m not sure I know what healthy digestion feels like. How will I know when I’m there? Besides the obvious not blocked up and not sprinting for the can. Are there any tests you can recommend? Signs to look for specifically in regards to the gut biome? Thank you.”
Liz Wolfe: I go back and forth sometimes. Like I said in the last question, we’re so biohack happy, or test happy in the paleo community. Like, we’re feeling great, comparatively “my gut is a boss, but are there any tests you can recommend so I can just be 100% sure that I’m bossing it up?” And I go back and forth; like yeah, you know, a lot of times we have no idea what’s really going on until we take all the tests. And then on the other hand, I’m like, well if you feel good then you don’t need to take all the tests. So I don’t know, it’s just funny.
I’m not super gung-ho these days on a constant stream of fermented foods all the time. I just don’t know that they’re necessary or even helpful in large, large amounts. Diane has always been pro using them kind of like a garnish, and I’ve definitely had my sauerkraut guzzling days, but those are behind me hopefully. Fermented foods are great for digestion because they’re acidic, and they do stimulate the natural digestive process that your body wants to do anyway, but sometimes stress and eating on the run kind of overrides those natural capacities. I think they’re much like probiotics in that way and that they support the natural flow of things.
Like I said, if you’re in a constant state of stress or you have a nutritional intake problem that’s messing with your gut biome, then you probably end up needing to have this; I don’t want to say chronic supplementation with probiotics or probiotic foods, but you probably end up feeling like you need a probiotic supplement on an ongoing basis because maybe you’re not getting the results you want or you feel like whatever a probiotic is supposed to do for you, it’s not doing so you keep taking it. But in that case, the problem there is really more stress and nutrition based, and maybe you’re just kind of Band-Aiding things with probiotics.
So, I think that we can get to the point where the gut and our digestion is in really good shape and you see all the benefit that you’re going to see from ongoing supplementation with probiotics. So for most people, it might not be necessary. And I have to say, also, the literature on probiotics in my opinion is by no means clear. And this is one of those things that is part of the reason that Baby Making and Beyond has been this really, really long sunny side up labor, because so much of the literature is contradictory on a lot of these things, particularly with probiotics.
I don’t think that they can cause a huge amount of harm, necessarily, but we don’t want to be swallowing a bunch of stuff that is not effective, and there are different strains of probiotics, and there are different combinations of strains of probiotics. So this might also be one of those things where you’re like; ok, what am I taking, how does it feel and how does my poop look; which as a lot of folks know, there is a poop chart in Practical Paleo, in Diane’s book that can help you understand the signs that your poop is giving you.
Pregnancy and lactation is definitely one where I think a really conscientious probiotic strategy is warranted, because it’s an extended state of stress of one kind or another that does place different demands on the body. So you do want to support digestion, but you want to do it properly. Gosh, I’m just not giving a whole lot of direct answers here. It’s just one of those things where the answer is, it depends.
Healthy digestion feels fairly uneventful top to tail. You don’t get the burps, and you don’t get that heavy feeling in your stomach, and you don’t get too many gurgles that aren’t directly involved with evacuation at the other end, and when you feel the urge to actually go you sit down and you go quickly and smoothly and there’s not a huge mess and you're done. There’s no hemorrhoids, which are a huge issue during pregnancy and postpartum for a lot of women. There’s not a lot of straining, and I also want to point out that the position of your uterus can also impact how easily you’re able to go, so depending on what comes up in pregnancy and post pregnancy, you might want to look at where your uterus is sitting.
There’s a consistency, I think, of the stool that is healthy and I think it really is more in the ease of passing for a lot of folks that really matters. If you’re having issues, then you look at the consistency of your poop and address that whatever that looks like. But if you’re feeling good and it’s passing easily, then I wouldn’t worry too much. Man I got way far off field of the original question, but that’s all I got.
Diane Sanfilippo: Well I really don’t have more to add other than to grab that poop chart. It’s page 75 in Practical Paleo. And yeah, I’m with you on the; I don’t know. I’m never really the person who is like, oh I should test for things if I feel well. I’m not even the type to have an issue and want to go test for it, when I know that there are things I could and should be doing in my diet and lifestyle that could be improved. I will not go get blood work done if I’m like, well I’m not sleeping and I feel like o could be eating better. There’s no point in me getting blood work done when I don’t feel well, when I know that my diet and lifestyle are kind of out of whack, you know?
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: Because I’m like, well I’m not even doing what I know to do first, so let’s just start there. And inevitably and invariably that always rights things for me. But I think, basically the other lesson here just in general from this probiotic question, and in general with supplements also, is that if you are taking something and you don’t really need it anymore, it’s ok to stop. It’s ok to listen to your body. I also think it’s important to figure out if you are taking something and your body doesn’t respond to it at all; if you are taking these probiotics and you’re not experiencing a benefit, or if you’re experiencing the opposite effect that you think you should be experiencing, those are signs that there could be something else going on. Whereas, if you're body is responding as expected and you’re feeling better, I’m just not one to go looking for problems, or try and get testing to just prove that I’m feeling better, if I’m already feeling better.
Liz Wolfe: And I think you know.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.
Liz Wolfe: If you’ve got a good; ok, so here’s another little like caveat. Probiotics are not all the same. You could have two probiotics brands that use the exact same strains, and one is more potent than the other, or one has a longer shelf life than the other. So if you’re not experiencing a benefit, it might either be because you don’t need them, or it might be because you whatever you’re taking was DOA, dead on arrival, and you’re just taking a bunch of dead probiotics. So maybe if you really feel strongly; like, my gut needs some help, you might try a better probiotic, you might try switching brands and see if you have any benefit from a different brand.
Meg, my Baby Making and Beyond partner, saw a huge benefit from taking a particular type of probiotic, where as I’ve taken the same ones, same brand, and really didn’t seen anything beneficial happen. So it depends on who you are, it depends on what you’re taking and the quality of what you're taking, from strain to brand. There are just a ton of things to consider. So I’m done.
Diane Sanfilippo: Alright, so I think that’s all the questions we have time for.
Liz Wolfe: Yep.
9. #Treatyoself: Paleo Treats and comfy pants [56:09]
Diane Sanfilippo: Alright, Liz. Do you have a treat yoself this week?
Clip: Three words for you; Treat. Yo. Self.
Liz Wolfe: I can’t remember if I said this one the last time we recorded, but the Mustang bar.
Diane Sanfilippo: From Paleo Treats.
Liz Wolfe: From Paleo Treats! Sooo good!
Diane Sanfilippo: We’re like, loving up our sponsors this week.
Liz Wolfe: I know. I love it.
Diane Sanfilippo: That’s a good treat yoself. That’s a really good one.
Liz Wolfe: Oh it’s so good. Straight out of the freezer, Mustang bar. So good.
Diane Sanfilippo: Well, I don’t know, my treat this week was a pair of super soft, comfy pants from Athleta, which is just like an athletic apparel store. I think it’s part of Gap Inc. But to me that’s a tree because I have no business buying comfy sweatpants. I probably have 10 pairs in the closet. But I went into the store, and I was chatting with them about maybe doing an event in January, which if you guys live in San Francisco, come join us if we do that. But I was like, these are soft. So I totally suckered myself into it and bought a pair of those. So that was my treat yoself this week.
Liz Wolfe: I like it. We usually think about this as a food thing, but it doesn’t always have to be food.
Diane Sanfilippo: Those were definitely a treat. {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: Cool. Well that’s it for this week. You can find me, Liz, at http://realfoodliz.com/ and you can find Diane at http://dianesanfilippo.com. Join our email lists for free goodies and updates that you don’t find anywhere else on our website or on the podcast. And while you’re on the internet, leave us an iTunes review pretty please. See you next week.