Podcast Episode #113: Listener Q&A – Body Image Perspective & Body Composition

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Topics:
1.  21-Day Sugar Detox Cookbook update [3:59] 2.  Liz book news [11:41] 3.  Upcoming events for 21-Day Sugar Detox [26:57] 4. Body image perspective [28:48] 5.  What is a good way to measure body comp in relation to health [43:20] 6.  How to be healthy and very thin  [53.40]

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Liz Wolfe: Hey everyone! Welcome to episode 113 of the Balanced Bites podcast. I’m Liz, that’s Diane.

Diane Sanfilippo: Hey… {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: And, we’re going to record this episode now. {laughs} I’m on 2 hours of sleep, so, pod me.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: So our sponsors! Paleo Treats. Have you tried the new, Bandito bar.

Diane Sanfilippo: Are you asking me?

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: Uh, I’m on a 21-day Sugar Detox.

Liz Wolfe: Oh yeah. It tastes kind of like a rice krispie, chocolate rice krispie treat.

Diane Sanfilippo: Uhhhh.

Liz Wolfe: It’s really good.

Diane Sanfilippo: I’m also allergic to all tree nuts, sooo…

Liz Wolfe: Oh, right, right, right.

Diane Sanfilippo: Basically, I’m down to the Mac Attack as what I’ll be able to tear into. I love Paleo Treats, and before this allergy got bad, that Mustang Bar was pretty much my jam.

Liz Wolfe: Oh my gosh, I love the Mustang Bar.

Diane Sanfilippo: So I think to try the Bandito… but I got some inside scoop into the possibility of some other new stuff being developed, and I was like, “I hate to be one of those people, but, uh, if there’s any way to make it without {laughs} tree nuts!” I know. I just was like, “I won’t be able to taste it. I’m sorry!” So, anyway, but if you can eat nuts, or not, that Mac Attack is amazing. It’s like a macadamia, no wait. Not a macadamia; yeah… no it’s like a macaroon.

Liz Wolfe: Macaroon, yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: Oh my goodness.

Liz Wolfe: They can call your special bar that they are making just for you, they can call it the D-Sizzle.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing}

Liz Wolfe: And it can just be a hefty dose of coconut and attitude.

Diane Sanfilippo: That sounds cooler than I really am. Can it have coffee in it? Can they put some Chameleon Cold-Brew into the treat?

Liz Wolfe: Yes. {laughs} Wow, that would be a match made in heaven. Paleo Treats and Chameleon Cold-Brew.

Diane Sanfilippo: I’m pretty sure if you eat the Brownie Bomb with some Chameleon Cold-Brew, like, you’ll have a moment where you feel like the world can end and you’ll be ok. And actually, if you do that along with some Pete’s Paleo bacon {laughs} pretty much our sponsors are like the trifecta of everything amazing.

Liz Wolfe: They are the triple deke of paleo deliciousness.

Diane Sanfilippo: For sure.

Liz Wolfe: No, not triple deke. That’s a bad thing.

Diane Sanfilippo: I don’t know what that means. {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: Triple threat. Triple threat. Triple deke, mighty ducks? Quack, quack, quack.

Diane Sanfilippo: Nope. That’s like from an era that I’m not. I was watching, like the Food Network for the 10 years that that was relevant.

Liz Wolfe: Old lady. Alright, so our next sponsor we want to share, Chameleon Cold-Brew.

Diane Sanfilippo: Wait, did you tell them the discount they are going to get on Paleo Treats?

Liz Wolfe: Oh, no! 15% off when you enter the code BALANCEDBITES at checkout. Everybody go buy some Paleo Treats and make us look good.

Diane Sanfilippo: And they are really, probably some really good stocking stuffers, although you are supposed to keep them kind of frozen, but over Christmas? Eh. It’s fine.

Liz Wolfe: You’re good.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: If you’re like my husband and you will never turn the heat on, ever, you’ll be fine.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing}

Liz Wolfe: {laughing} I love him. And then sponsor number three, Pete’s Paleo, bringing fine dining to your cave. And our listeners get a free pound of bacon with the purchase of any meal plan, and that offer is valid through December 31st of this year.

Diane Sanfilippo: Whoop, whoop!

1. 21-Day Sugar Detox Cookbook update [3:59]

Liz Wolfe: Cool. So what’s up? I saw a very auspicious…

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: Facebook status update from you today.

Diane Sanfilippo: That just said, “DOOOOOOONNNNNE!!!!”

Liz Wolfe: It was extreme hyperbole.

Diane Sanfilippo: And then, somewhere later in the comments, “I’m going to the mall.”

Liz Wolfe: Yeah {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: People are like, “go on vacation,” I’m like, “right. Like, right today, I’m just going to be instantly on vacation? No, it doesn’t happen like that.” Um, I don’t have a vacation planned, unfortunately, buuuut, book number 3, which I’m completely insane for having decided to do that, but it is, I believe off to print legitimately as of last night, so yeah. This is going to be the most insane turn around. The cover is already printed, like, basically the printer is lined up ready, hopefully, and hopefully the book will hit stores as planned. So, for anybody who doesn’t know the timelines on book publishing, like this is basically unheard of, but I’m the worst with deadlines, and so some of it is my fault, some of it is not really my fault. But, um, anyway. So, that’s off to print. You know, the process in the last… I kind of took a look at the calendar, and it’s been 18 months since I was really kind of focused finishing Practical Paleo, and, you know, I was working on it for much longer, but the last few months of just that really grueling hall, and then until now, that has been 18 months, and 3 books have come out, and it’s like, “I can’t”. It’s like I had a baby, and then had Irish twins that were also twins. So, like, basically {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: I don’t know what that means.

Diane Sanfilippo: Irish twins are like, when you have two children really close together, like, basically

Liz Wolfe: {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: You had a baby and then you got pregnant like immediately after, so people think that they are practically twin, because they are almost the same… yeah, anyway. That’s kind of what happened with these two books. I know, like our friend’s Bill and Haley, they are probably the only other people that I possibly know who understand what putting 3 books in that much time out is really like. I think their 3 books came out pretty much in that much time. So, for people who are interested in the cookbook; I’m actually really, really proud of it. At some point in time, when I was kind of going through more edits and kind of just looking at it, stepping away and looking at it for what it is as opposed to, like, just being a stressor that I’m kind of working on. I was like, wow, this is a really good collection of recipes, and some really different ideas, and one of the things I haven’t really talked much about yet because I’ve just been waiting, my team, my group of amazing ladies, actually, it happens to be all women on my team, have been working on some web pages to update, but I wanted to introduce people to more of the ladies on my team, and one of them has been Tonja Field, so some people may follow her from Flame to Fork on Instagram or Facebook. She and her friend, Clare, have a little thing going on there. She actually came on board as part of my team to help with the book. And so, what I did, at some point when I was realizing that I had over 100 recipes to develop, and shoot, and write, and all of that, within just a few months’ time after the first book, even though I started working on some of the new recipes for the cookbook while I finished the first book, I just kind of realized that there was no possible way I could get 100 new recipes done on my own in this much time. And so, you know, it was a really hard decision to make to say, you know, I’m going to get some help, but it really, when it came down to it, it wasn’t a hard call. It wasn’t a tough decision to have her come on board and help with it, because I had just been watching what she had been doing, and she has been kind of excited about recipe development, and has participated in the 21-Day Sugar Detox before, and it’s just, you know, really excited to help people, and so I love to employ people like that. I talked about this, I think, before on the podcast where one of the most fun parts of what I’m doing these days is that I’m able to start at least quasi employing other people who can get into this work, whatever portion of sort of whether it’s recipe development or graphic design, or just, like my assistant who does a lot of admin and operations work. Whatever it is that they are really good at, they can contribute to the fact that we’re all helping lots of people kind of get healthier and live better lives, and that is really rewarding for me, and so to be able to bring Tonja into this project with me to help work on it, you know, it was stressful for her, and I think there was definitely a moment where she was like, I don’t know if I want to do this, and, you know, that eventually passed and she really powered through. I think the coolest part is that, you know, while my creativity with these recipes and with what I offer people in my books is always, you know, in a certain place and people know what to expect by now of my work, but having her come on board it just lent this whole; lent, lended? Added? I can’t speak English. It added this whole other level of just somebody else’s point of view and creativity and ideas around recipes, which, I think at the end of the day it made the book a lot better. She’s really into baking, and good at it, and so there were a bunch of recipes that I was like, I never would have done that, and I’m so glad that the people who have this book on order or who will get this cookbook that they will get those recipes. When I saw it all put together, I was like, that was really the right decision and I’m really glad that I had that help, I’m glad that she was the one to do it, and I’m really excited that people will have the recipes that she helped to develop. {laughs} In addition to the fact that many of them include nuts that I cannot eat. But, we do have plenty of notes on recipes about substituting, you know, nuts and autoimmune friendly recipes, and all that kind of good stuff. So, anyway, that was kind of the update on that, and you know I just wanted to let folks know about that. I’m always very transparent with what is going on with my business and, you know, I think it’s really important that people understand that I don’t do everything on my own. You know, like this business that I have, and people are like, “You are amazing! I can’t believe you do all this!” It’s like, I don’t do all of it! {laughs} There is no possible way I could get all of these books out. I mean, everything else that has come out in these books has all been me, 100%, you know Practical Paleo, Bill Staley shot the photos for that book, but everything I wrote and made all the recipes and did all of that. Same thing with the second book; I photographed everything, developed all the recipes, wrote everything in that book, so the 21-Day Sugar Detox was like 100% my blood, sweat and tears, and I actually think it’s more fun to have had somebody involved in the cookbook because now I can be like, isn’t this exciting? These people are making recipes that you developed, and it’s cool to see that stuff out there. You can tell when people post pictures on Facebook or Instagram, you’re like, Yup! That was my recipe! So, I’m really excited about that. Yeah, so that’s kind of the update on that.

Liz Wolfe: I was taking a nap.

Diane Sanfilippo: I know.

Liz Wolfe: I’m sorry.

Diane Sanfilippo: I just… it’s fine.

Liz Wolfe: I’m so tired.

2. Liz book news [11:41]

Diane Sanfilippo: You’re; I know you’re working on finishing your B-O-O-K.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs} B-A-B-Y.

Diane Sanfilippo: Baby? Book baby!

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: Can you talk about it, or…

Liz Wolfe: Yeah. So, let me tell you real quick what else is up besides the book.

Diane Sanfilippo: Ok.

Liz Wolfe: First of all, I learned something…

Diane Sanfilippo: I’ll take a nap now.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah, you take a nap, I’ll let you know when you can come back.

Diane Sanfilippo: Ok.

Liz Wolfe: First of all, I learned something really interesting about vacuums this week, which I’m really excited to share.

Diane Sanfilippo: I can hardly wait.

Liz Wolfe: I know. So, we have this Dyson, right? And I always thought that bagless vacuums were kind of like the wave of the future. And, I always thought vacuums with bags were just detestable, old, 1970s pieces of garbage. Well, since living out here, I’ve been unable to keep my house clean for many reasons, but one of those reasons is that I guess the Dyson canister is like, it can only hold as much as it can hold, where as a bag vacuum actually compresses the dirt and the detritus and pushes it down so you can fit a lot more in it. And I learned that from a really awesome vacuum store, a little mom and pop shop recently last week. So we are getting a new vacuum, and it just made me realize that this local movement is not just exclusive to how we eat, it’s also how we shop, where we spend our money in all senses of the word. So, I loved that, what I learned today. I never would have learned it unless somebody would have come out and taught me all about vacuums. So, I’m very grateful. This little shop is in downtown Lee’s Summit, Missouri. It took me all day to get there, but it was totally worth it.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing}

Liz Wolfe: And now I can’t remember the name of the shop. I totally wanted to shout them out, but I’ll put it up on the Facebook page. Amway, they are wonderful.

Diane Sanfilippo: So that everyone can go on their website and buy vacuum bags?

Liz Wolfe: Yes. So everyone can go buy a vacuum from Sarah.

Diane Sanfilippo: Ok. A vacuum.

Liz Wolfe: In Lee’s Summit. So, that’s that. I’m very excited. And now maybe my house can be marginally cleaner. That is not going to help me become a cleaner person, because like we talked about I’ve been finishing up the very last of my book edit, so I’m basically like a completely unshowered, you know, dirty emotional disaster having all of the feelings that happen, I guess, at the end of book edits. I think my editor said that if we’re talking about childbirth, this would be called transition, when you’re like, I’m not going to do this!

Diane Sanfilippo: You’re like, let’s not let it come out yet.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah. You’re like, after this much work, I’d rather just not do it than push through all of the feelings. So, anyway, a lot of people know that my book went through a lot of changes since, you know, it was first put up on Amazon, so Modern Cave Girl is no longer up there. If you would like to go search around for the new book, I’m not quite going to announce it yet because the cover isn’t up on Amazon, but it is there, and it’s not the murder mystery by another Liz Wolfe

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: That also popped up.

Diane Sanfilippo: I preordered your book, by the way.

Liz Wolfe: Thank you!

Diane Sanfilippo: It’s currently rating in the macrobiotics category, in case anyone is wonder {laughing}.

Liz Wolfe: I don’t even know what that means. I keep meaning to ask you how to manage all this stuff on Amazon, but I’m not going to worry about it.

Diane Sanfilippo: No, you can’t! Because Practical Paleo was listed under, like, home improvement, or something for a while, and I was like, well that will be a rude awakening! {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: {laughing} Practical Paleo, home improvement. I don’t know. So anyway, that’s kind of what’s going on with me. I’m super loopy. I’ve been, I don’t know, you know. At this point, I think as much as I’m not working in the healthiest manner, I’m not getting a whole lot of sleep, I’m not… I’m doing my best to take care of myself and support my body, but it’s certainly not I would live 365 days a year. But I think at this point, you just do what you do to get it done.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. I think that there is, you know, I think that it’s ok to understand that part of that stress process is, it’s an acute thing, and as long as you perhaps plan for some sort of relaxation or downtime after the book comes out, and just kind of get yourself back on track, it doesn’t last forever and all the stressful feelings of it, literally like the day it goes to print because I can tell you this, like your brain chemistry shifts.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: Because it’s no longer something. I mean, I actually kind of woke up with a little bit of a nightmare last night, just being worried about who knows what, some kind of nonsensical thing that might have been wrong or didn’t get edited right, or who knows what. But, it is a really stressful thing, and I think one of the things that, you and I were talking about this before, that it’s not like, we’re not complaining about the stress of it.

Liz Wolfe: Nu-uh.

Diane Sanfilippo: Just kind of explaining what it’s like. Because, you know, we understand that there are tons of people out there who are writers and, you know, who haven’t ever had a book deal, and you know… it’s a great privilege and honor to be able to do that and to get your work out and to share it with this many people. But the thing that you just don’t know before you really sign up for it, and I think especially when you are going to be teaching some sort of nutrition, like, it applies for sure when you are writing recipes, and that is anything that you put your time and energy into creating, and then share with the world, there is a stress that comes with that. And the stress is, you know, will people like it or not, will they tell me it didn’t work, will they hate my recipes, will they just criticize the poop out of it. You know, it’s like, there’s never any end to the haters, so it’s one of those things that’s just like, you have to figure out how to deal with it, but when you write something about nutrition and health, the additional pressure there is just so different, because it’s like, look, nobody can ever say everything there is to know about nutrition in one book.

Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.

Diane Sanfilippo: And, you know, I joked with you in a text this morning, and we know that you can’t, because Gary Taubes tried, and I don’t even know if he got it all in there {laughs} into Good Calories, Bad Calories.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: You know, you’d end up writing a book that is like 1000 pages long that nobody is going to read. And so, you have to pick and chose what you are going to say, and inevitably that will leave people, you know, criticizing loop holes and things like that, which obviously we even see with the whole Weston Price debacle and criticizing Robb Wolf’s book. It was like, Look, his was the first. He’s probably got some…well, not the first, but the first with this kind of flow of books, and you know, he’s likely got some different opinions about what he wrote in the past, but I’ll be the majority of it he still stands by. And I think that the reality is you have to create a paradigm within the construct of your book from cover to cover that is understandable, that says as much as you need to say without being able to say it all, and that leaves the reader, you know, hopefully in a better situation than when they started. It’s never going to be everything you know about nutrition, it’s never going to be something that works or is applicable to every single person. There’s always going to be something about what you say or whatever that is like, just not perfect for everyone. And it’s hard.

Liz Wolfe: Right, right.

Diane Sanfilippo: You know, it’s hard to think that, like, that now has gotten out there and that person will form an opinion without having a conversation with you. You know, or some crazy hater blogger is literally, like the minute your book releases, is going to buy the book just so they can write a hater-ade review. Like, literally that kind of stuff happens. So, when there are people out there who spread all kinds of negativity and hate, and are like, oh, you know, you don’t need these books, blah, blah, blah, it’s like, well, how about we all just do something to try to help other people instead of spreading the negativity. I’m going to go down a whole different rabbit hole, so…

Liz Wolfe: Now you’re making me really not want to do this! {laughs} Cause, I’m so sensitive to other people’s feelings, even people that, like, the way other people feel. What I was telling my husband last night is, I just want to make you, the editor, and everybody else proud, and I want them to like it and get something out of it. That’s what I want. But then, like you are saying, there are always those soldiers of negativity that have something bad to say, and for some reason, to me, all the nice words in the world

Diane Sanfilippo: I know.

Liz Wolfe: could be completely overshadowed by one person who doesn’t like what I’ve done, and has no idea what 2 years of work looks like. It’s scary.

Diane Sanfilippo: Well, and chances are, they’ve never done it, either.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: They’ve never published a book and put something out there, and they are also probably not legitimately helping as many people in a very honest way, like we know that we’re not doctors, we know that we’re not giving everybody the answer to every problem they’ve ever had, but we do know for sure that we help thousands of people who write to us every single day. We get letters, and when your book comes out, you’ll get even more of them about how your book changed somebody’s life, and the whole way they think about health and nutrition. But, the reality is, I mean, I had this moment last week where I read some kind of, you know, really awful hater post about me, specifically, and my new book, and it was just like, it really put me in a bad place.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: Because I was like, why do people do this? It literally is this person’s, it seems like, solitary mission to like 80% of what is done out of her mouth is just negativity about people who are trying to help other people, and I had a realization, actually, I think this morning when you and I were kind of texting about this stuff. I was like, you know what? Like, that person is obviously screwed up in the head. Like, it’s obviously a not normal, unstable person. And it’s not just one person, there are a lot of people out there who are like, throwing you know names around and whatever. I’ve heard people criticizing me without naming me, but I know they are talking about me, being like, you know, when you hear this diet guru say xyz, I’m like ,first of all, who is calling me a guru? Because it’s not me.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: I’m just a person who is learning about nutrition. Liz, you’re just a person who is learning about nutrition and trying your darndest to share what you learn to help other people. That’s it. That’s all we are trying to do here, and so forgive us if we’re not scientists and doctors, but you know what? It doesn’t seem like the scientists and doctors are really doing much to help people. So….

Liz Wolfe: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: I’m sorry, but that’s just how it is. Because the people who are coming to us have been struggling for a really long time, and somehow what we’ve said in a matter of an hour-long free podcast changed their life more than 5 years of trying to figure it out with their doctor. And, you know, we’re not presenting medical information, but whatever. Whatever it is that helps people. People are brainwashed that there is only one way, you know? I don’t know.

Liz Wolfe: Well, sometimes I worry that there is no more room for what I have to say, and then I get a news alert from USAToday that says “Statins!” {laughs} What did it say?

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Statins are going to be free!

Liz Wolfe: Breaking: New heart guidelines could put more Americans on statins, and then I’m like, ok.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: Those of us talking about this continue to talk about this.

Diane Sanfilippo: There actually is a lot of room for it. And, you know, the proof in this too, you know, what I just said about Robb’s book, for example, his own position probably on a lot of what he wrote, Robb Wolf’s book, Paleo Solution for people who don’t know about it, you know, his position on a lot of what he wrote may be different now, but you know it was 2010 when that book came out. And so, Chris Kresser’s book, Your Personal Paleo Code, that one is releasing at the end of this year, and I read the manuscript, and I was like, ok. This really is sort of the science. It’s not Gary Taubes Good Calories, Bad Calories level of scientific explanation. It’s easily digestible, pun intended, but it really reflects sort of the current thinking that a lot of us have around what this whole paleo thing is about. And it really covers some of those nuances of like, maybe you do eat dairy. Or maybe you do eat rice or white potatoes. And, you know, he does it in a way that is true to him. Now, I think you know the way I talk about that stuff in Practical Paleo is true to who I am. You know, I present it…I don’t give people, like, a specific plan. Of course there are meal plans in the book, but there is no, like, here’s the one thing to do, or even the exact, you know, supplements to take and this to follow, because I just don’t feel comfortable doing that. I don’t think there is any one thing for each person that is going to work. Everyone has got to make that choice. I think your book, I mean I haven’t read it yet, but I know that the way that you phrase things, the elements of this whole movement that you find really important and interesting for people to understand will serve another purpose for a whole other group of people who just aren’t clicking with it the way it’s out there right now, you know what I mean?

Liz Wolfe: I hope so. I’ll talk with the… if the cover is up on Amazon by next week, maybe I’ll do a little segment…

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: Kind of describing what it’s all about. This is really the last week of, ok, really squeezing it out these edits now and then I’ll be ready to talk about it next week.

Diane Sanfilippo: Are you pushing? Is this, like, you’re in labor, you’re pushing?

Liz Wolfe: I’m like, I’ve been pushing.

Diane Sanfilippo: I know {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: And now it’s like…

Diane Sanfilippo: You’ve been pushing since before Practical Paleo came out! So I’m like, let’s go! I’m cheering for you.

Liz Wolfe: I can’t even believe how many books have come out since I started working on this thing. But it’s ok. You know, we are own worst critics, so.

Diane Sanfilippo: Well, and you know, when John Durant’s book came out, it was also one of those things where it’s like, well what is his book going to say? You know.

Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.

Diane Sanfilippo: Like, he had a really big mission not to just rehash every other paleo book, and I actually found the angle and his…because of who he is and what he is interested in teaching people, that book has a really different angle than every other paleo book that has come out. So, I think that is what is really going to be different about you and your angle on things. And I know that of you, just from teaching together. Like, what you teach is just so much more organically from your interests.

Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.

Diane Sanfilippo: I think that is interesting, so.

Liz Wolfe: Well, shucks, buddy!

Diane Sanfilippo: I’m excited.

Liz Wolfe: Aww, thanks! {laughs} Thanks.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} yeah.

Liz Wolfe: I’m going to be asking for a lot of help from everybody on how to get the word out once it’s actually, like, everybody go check it out. I need help with marketing, because I have no idea what I’m doing! {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, well. I’ll give you some insight into all of that.

Liz Wolfe: Thank you.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: Thank you so much.

3. Upcoming events for 21-Day Sugar Detox [26:57]

Diane Sanfilippo: Um, well I wanted to tell people; I forgot to mention this, oops, in my ranting and all of that. Just a quick event update about what’s going on, speaking of marketing. November 22nd is a Friday, it’s actually sort of a company-wide Barnes and Noble in-store event day, so I’ll be at the Clifton, New Jersey store that is pretty local to me, on November 22nd. I think that starts at around 6:30 p.m., and I think the Food Lover’s are actually at one of their stores in Pittsburg that day, so just kind of check your local Barnes and Noble on November 22nd for book events. And then, I also am doing a talk and a book signing December 12th, another local one to me here in Montclair, New Jersey at the public library, so check that out as well in the sidebar at blog.balancedbites.com. You can RSVP for those events. They are all free, but I would just like to get a head count and kind of see who is coming see what to expect. So, stay tuned for details on more events coming up soon. {beeping noise}

Liz Wolfe: Are you backing into a parking spot?

Diane Sanfilippo: Seriously? I live on the busiest street in my tiny town, so, no I’m not. That was Paleo kitty, actually, he’s got a backup beep.

Liz Wolfe: {laughing} Speaking of cats, we’re babysitting a cat, and it’s like the weirdest most out of body experience. Cats are so weird!

Diane Sanfilippo: {sigh} I guess.

Liz Wolfe: We don’t have to get into that now, but.

Diane Sanfilippo: No, because I’m just looking at my call recorder, it’s been 27 minutes.

Liz Wolfe: Oh my goodness.

Diane Sanfilippo: And luckily we’ve actually talked about a couple of things, perhaps, books and all that, but whatever. You know, there are some episodes that are just a little more ranty than others.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah, if anybody watches Pardon the Interruption, a sport show on ESPN. At the very end Tony Kornheiser is always like, we’re out of time, we’ll try to do better the next time! That’s kind of how I feel right now.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: {laughs} We’ll try to do better the next time. Alright, well, let’s ask a couple of questions, shall we.

Diane Sanfilippo: Alrighty.

4. Body image perspective [28:48]

Liz Wolfe: Alright. First question: Followup to podcast on body image. “Hi ladies! I’m a relatively new listener, but I’ve really enjoyed listening to you on my morning commutes. I was particularly touched by your recent body image segment and was hoping for your input on my own battle with this monster. Three years ago, I moved abroad for work. At 5’8”, I was at that time a curvy but active 140 pounds. When I moved, my work was stressful, and I coped by going on long runs and by micro controlling calories. Not because I thought I was fat, but because it was so nice to feel in control of something, even if I was controlling the number of calories in and out each day. Within a few months, I lost 20 pounds. At my lowest, I was 117 pounds. Of course, my periods stopped, my boobs went away, I slept terribly, and I was just upset or angry all the time. Sounds fun, right? I went to the doctor for terrible stomach issues I was having and she helped me realize that I’m gluten intolerant. Having to cut out gluten in Europe, where everything is made of bread, was no easy task, and therefore having not eaten red meat in over 17 years, I transformed into a meat-eating machine. In parallel, because of the stopped periods, my doctor has put me on…” I’m not familiar with this… “Cyclacur”, which sounds like what it is “to regulate my estrogen and bring the periods back. She also advised that I cut way back on the running, and work out only moderately, up to 5 times a week. I’ve done all of the above, and basically follow a primal diet with the exception of occasionally eating chickpeas, and I have one glass of red wine every evening. Over the past couple of months, Cyclacur has brought back my period and I have gained, no joke, 10 pounds. Everyone says I look better for it, but the controller in me is having a lot of difficulty watching the number on the scale continue to increase every week. If it would level off, I would feel calmer about all of this, but I’m beginning to think that eating fats and only moderate exercise is going to take me on a path towards unwanted weight gain. I have love handles now, dammit! Could you please lend some perspective?” I’m glad that the question at the end of all this was, “could you please lend some perspective” rather than “could you please tell me how to lose weight, stop gaining weight, or whatever.”

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: So, you go.

Diane Sanfilippo: Do you want me to start?

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: Um. It’s really funny, not with the same approach, but I’ve gone through the same type of thing. I’m only 5 foot 4, but at my heaviest I was probably 165 pounds, and that was not like a jacked, muscley 165, because we know that the numbers may or may not really matter. Um, and at my lowest, probably down to like 125 or maybe 130, but probably 125 and very lean. Same kind of thing, like, no boobs, no period, lost my period. All of those things happened, and, you know, my perspective on it, at least just from my own journey with it is that I think it’s important to figure out if you can at all in an objective way, what a legitimately healthy place for your body to be is, and I think it’s really hard to do that without being overly critical of sort of how it looks and how you expect it to look or feel. And this is something, you know, I just think that anybody who tells you they’ve got it all figured out, they fell 100% perfect about their body all the time, I don’t know that I believe that, because I just think it’s a little bit of this…I don’t know, it’s a little bit of a human condition, I guess. And that’s not to say that, you know, we can’t get to a place where we do feel happy and content and comfortable and not concerned or worried or stressed out or, you know, watching the scale all the time. So, I think part of it becomes figuring out and really, like, making sure that you understand that at your lowest, when your period stopped and all of these things were going wrong, that that was not a healthy place. Like, you have to know that that was not healthy, and that is the point. You know, for you, that wasn’t healthy. For me, I was a lot heavier, but for me that body fat or whatever was happening with my body and the imbalance it caused in my body caused my periods to stop. And we have to know that that is not a healthy place. So, the unfortunate part is that we get this idea of how we should look or how our clothes should fit or what size we should wear, and we’re like, ok, well that was working, but my periods stopped. So we have to be able to look at that in a black and white way of like, ok, well I thought this was good, but my body was telling me it wasn’t. My body is the one that is right {laughs} in this case. You know, my sort of whacked out perception of what I wanted to look like, or whatever, was obviously not healthy for me. And so, I think that we need to kind of snap out of it and realize that, and I do think, you know, at 5’8”, curvy but active, 140 pounds, I mean, that’s not…I think probably weight close to 140 pounds right now. I don’t even know, but I think that that is probably not heavy at all at 5:8”, so, you know, if she’s gaining weight from where she’s at… you know, I think there is a point at which when you’ve gone through a lot of body changes, you do sometimes experience that dysmorphia where you cannot look in the mirror and know what you really look like. And, I don’t know that it even really matters, you know, it’s how you see yourself. But I know for me, there are certain clothes where I’m like, if this were to get really, really tight, that would be a sign that perhaps things are getting too far. Like I’m eating too much junk or whatever, which I don’t really do, so my body actually doesn’t go above whatever that point is. Like, there’s a, you know, a few pound range, it’s just a natural ebb and flow, seasonally, whatever the stress is going on, like things are going to change you are not going to stay in the exact same, you know, 1-pound range all the time. But I think you have to spend some time really just kind of, I don’t know if it’s convincing yourself or educating yourself about what healthy really means, and then also being honest about the food choices that are happening, because while I don’t think micromanaging the food choices is something that always needs to happen. For me, right now with the Sugar Detox for example that I’m doing, it actually calms me down because it doesn’t make me think about treats, it doesn’t make me think, “Oh I wish I could have this but I can’t,” it just makes me think these are the foods that I’m eating, I’m supporting myself, I’m being healthy, and I feel better. I feel mentally calmer about it, and I know my body will be healthier for it. But when it comes to watching the scale, I don’t have a scale in my house. Liz, I don’t know if you have a bathroom scale. But I don’t think for most women…

Liz Wolfe: Not for years.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, I mean, like I got rid of the microwave and the scale pretty much at the same time {laughs}. There was a microwave built into this kitchen, so, whatever. But, you know, I just don’t think it’s the best reflection of really what is going on with your health. I think it would be a good idea to get rid of it. I know it sounds scary and difficult, but your clothes are going to tell you what is going on. I just think that you have to make sure that what you are gauging by are not the pants that you wore at 117 pounds, because it doesn’t sound like that was a really healthy place for you if you lost your period. And I think, you know, the fact of being honest a prescription is what brought your period back, I think it’s really important to consider, you know, having a prescription being necessary to keep your hormonal balance in check. Just, understand that that is not a natural state, so you need to do whatever it takes to support your body in being healthy, and that may not support what is going on with the conversation in your head at that time. So, I don’t know, Liz if you have some other kind of “be kind to yourself” or other insights that might really help on this front.

Liz Wolfe: It’s just a matter of letting it go. And I don’t know how to tell people to do that. We had a lot of… I had a couple of people who are really well educated in this stuff reach out to me after our first body image podcast, and I just have not had time to pursue it further.

Diane Sanfilippo: Mm-hmm.

Liz Wolfe: I certainly will, eventually, but this book has got to get done. I just feel like, everything you said, fabulous, but just bottom line is…

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: I don’t know how to tell you how to let it go, but I can tell you it’s extraordinary on the other side.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: It just is. And you know what? I probably wear a lot of stretchy pants.

Diane Sanfilippo: Oh gosh!

Liz Wolfe: So I can’t …. My regular pants don’t always fit great, but I can usually tell where I am in my life when that maybe is probably more likely to happen. Like right now; actually, you know what is interesting? Is when I get really stressed, I lose a little bit of weight, and along with that, you know which I have been really stressed recently, and a long with that, I don’t feel very good. So for me, I prefer to be a little bit..have a little bit more, you know, whatever. A little bit more weight on, although like I said, I don’t have a scale, I just kind of know where I’m at. But I prefer to have a little bit more weight on me because of all of the good happy feelings of health that come with that. So, I guess that’s just a shift in mindset. That’s really all I got.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. I mean, I was just kind of offering up what I had gone through, you know.

Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.

Diane Sanfilippo: Because I’ve been through a lot of this. Even today, {laughs} I went to the mall, and, you know, I got myself a sweater and whatever, like I just wanted to go out and get out of the house, actually, because I’ve been cooped up finishing books and whatnot, and you know, looking in the mirror sometimes you have to come to this place where you look at your body, and instead of saying “I wish it looked different” or “I wish this wasn’t this way” or “I wish this was this way” and I did have that moment today where I was like, “I have a curvy body.” Like, it was not curvy when I was running and running myself ragged and didn’t have a period anymore, but when I am being healthy and training and eating good food and you know doing all of that, it’s a curvy body. This is the body that I have. Like, own it, you know. {laughs} Actually, I was thinking about, like Sarah Fragoso had a blog post a couple of weeks ago, I think it was called “Own it”, and she’s like, ripped, and she’s a mom, and she looks awesome! But I had to have this moment for myself where I was like, you know what? I’m going to own this body. This is my body, this is the one that I have, and …

Liz Wolfe: It’s equally awesome.

Diane Sanfilippo: It’s cool! It’s like, whatever. It is what it is. This is my body. If I don’t own it, and feel like it’s rocking this life, then, like, nobody else is going to do that for me. I think we have to do that, and just say, you know what, this is where we’re at, like. It’s hard, you know, because we have goals and we do lots of things to make changes in our lives, but I think that mindset around our own body is so; it’s tough. It’s a tough one.

Liz Wolfe: Yup. It is.

Diane Sanfilippo: Let it go.

Liz Wolfe: Let it go.

Diane Sanfilippo: “If it would level off, I would feel calmer about all of this.” It’s like, just feel calm about it now. Just see what happens.

Liz Wolfe: Nothing… it’s always, if this happened, I would this.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, yeah.

Liz Wolfe: And that never pans out, ever.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: You just have to be ok. Because you are.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: That’s how I feel.

Diane Sanfilippo: Instead of focusing on what your body or lifestyle is not, focus on, you know, the positives and whatever direction you want to be taking things in, and not in like a controlling way. But if you’re having a difficult time watching the number, get rid of the scale. And if you, you know, just put yourself in a situation to set yourself up for a success in that way. Instead of letting yourself stress about it, get rid of the pants that are a little too tight. Just stop putting them in front of yourself, you know what I mean?

Liz Wolfe: Get rid of pants altogether.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} I’m done with my pants.

Liz Wolfe: Pants are the worst.

Diane Sanfilippo: I had a friend and {laughs} we were much younger, in our early 20s. We were down at the Jersey Shore. This was like…

Liz Wolfe: You were down the shore?

Diane Sanfilippo: We were down the shore. We were not fist pumping or whatever they are doing on that Jersey Shore show. Maybe we were a little bit to Bon Jovi. But no, like {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: We came back after a night out at some club, and it’s like summer and 85 degrees at night still, you know, east coast, and she was just like, “I’m done with my pants,” And I think, I’m pretty sure they actually, like, came off of her body while she was still outside. She had underwear on, whatever.

Liz Wolfe: {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: But like walked into the house, and we’re like, “what happened to your pants?” She’s like “I’m done with my pants.”

Liz Wolfe: {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: So, you know. She was rocking it back then. I won’t name names.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah, maybe don’t name names. I don’t know; this person who asked this question, don’t know the name, but I was just looking at this “I moved abroad for work.” I don’t know if she’s abroad to, you know, clean up mercury or something which wouldn’t be so cool, but that’s pretty freaking cool that she moved abroad for work. I’m sure there is some amazing stuff that she can strike out and has been striking out to enjoy, and you know, there could be a lot of awesome stuff going on in life.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. Focus on other things, and yeah.

Liz Wolfe: And get rid of the pants.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. Like, sometimes you just have to buy some clothes that make you feel good and just stop looking in the mirror. Just be like, alright. Good. I feel comfortable, out the door.

Liz Wolfe: I more meant like the way your friend did it, which is just to ditch pants altogether.

Diane Sanfilippo: Get rid of them?

Liz Wolfe: Usually coupled with Kenny Loggins and dancing.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing}

Liz Wolfe: Anyway. Alright.

Diane Sanfilippo: Ok.

Liz Wolfe: Ok, next up.

Diane Sanfilippo: This is like a two-question podcast.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah, pretty much. That’s ok.

Diane Sanfilippo: Maybe three.

5. What is a good way to measure body comp in relation to health [43:20]

Liz Wolfe: Too skinny, too bulky, what is a good way to measure body comp in relation to health. “Hi Diane and Liz. My name is…” uh-oh. “Jakera. I love listening to your podcast, and that you really delve into the nitty-gritty of the paleo lifestyle and what it is like to go beyond the surface of the Paleolithic diet. I’ve listened to your podcast and many times over you highlight the impracticality of a lean look. I agree that relatively thin models with muscle tone plastered with “strong is the new skinny” is not really an accurate or healthy message. I was just wondering what a good marker would be to use for figuring out what the right body composition is for myself. I love Crossfit, and see gains in the performance aspect, but I feel like they could be greater, and I also feel a little self conscious that my body doesn’t really reflect my athletic pursuits. I began Crossfit March 2012, and began at just under 180 pounds and around 38% body fat. I switched to a more paleo diet, and lost 20 pounds, and went to 26% body fat by June. Since then, I’ve plateaued and hovered around 160 pounds and my jeans seem to fit about the same, carrying most of my weight in my hips and thighs and lower abdominal area now. I tried a whole 30 type detox in September, and got really frustrating 2-1/2 weeks into it because I saw no body composition change, not to mention I was really fatigued and seemed to have lost a lot of spunk. I do Crossfit anywhere from 3 to 6 times a week depending on my schedule. I’m on a 3-year birth control arm implant, which I had inserted just prior to beginning Crossfit.” And just to throw it out there, that’s definitely, not saying that this has to do with body composition in relation to health, but those implants are fairly notorious for some of the effects that they can have, so let’s just put that out there before I go on. “Other symptoms that may be applicable are that I had some acne prior to switching to paleo, made the switch, was quite strict about it, and my acne cleared up for a few months. I noticed my acne has come back shortly after I turned 21 and began to drink more often and when I eat more dairy. As far as my diet, I’m about 70% paleo with occasional alcohol consumption, some dairy 3 times a week in latte or coffee, and gluten type foods maybe 1 or 2 times a week, all of which is eaten while out. I try not to keep non-paleo foods in my house. I supplement with 3 drops of vitamin D3, a tablespoon of Lewis Labs brewer’s yeast, and 2-4 grams of Carlson’s fish oil depending on my workout intensity and my intake of fish.” So there’s kind of a lot going on here. These are almost 2 separate questions. As far as the marker for body composition, I just don’t know if there’s a good answer for that. If we’re answering somebody’s question about what lab work truly is a good indicator of your state of health, inflammatory markers, C-reactive protein, right, you like that one too Diane, don’t you?

Diane Sanfilippo: Um, sure.

Liz Wolfe: But, actually asking about body composition in relation to health; maybe a rule of thumb, I think is looking at where you tend to store your fat and what that tends to mean as far as inflammatory markers.

Diane Sanfilippo: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: If you’re storing a lot of fat around the trunk, that can be an indication of a greater propensity towards inflammation than if you are more, I guess, curvy in the more, you know conventional sense of the word, smaller waist to hip ratio.

Diane Sanfilippo: Pear-shaped versus apple-shaped.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah, that’s really all I have to say about that, but as far as how much fat is on your body, I just don’t know because there are so many different people that are healthy in different body compositions.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. I think there is a pretty wide range of actual body fat percentage. Especially when you start to build muscle, and you’re a pretty strong person, and it can be really tough, because even when I mentioned in that previous answer, for me, a certain body fat percentage that might look really different on one person, I was super lean, even though my body was measuring, I think it was measuring like 18%, which is low, I mean, for a female that low but I wasn’t menstruating there, and there are a lot of competitive Crossfit athletes who are way lower than that. We don’t know if they are all menstruating. We have no idea. But I think making sure that you have that going on, and then… you know, I think there is just an element of, like you said Liz, if you store it in a certain place and just getting off that idea of that, we always talk about the last 5 pounds, maybe it’s even the last 10 pounds, where it’s just like is this just you being, like, vain and going for those aesthetics or do you really feel like it’s weight that your body is uncomfortable carrying around. Do you know what I mean?

Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.

Diane Sanfilippo: I think that’s like a different thing. Is your body actually less healthy because of this extra weight for some reason. Is the extra weight a burden to your system, or is it just, you know, is it just the hair. You know, I think it’s a tough one.

Liz Wolfe: But I think that Jakera could potentially shift a few things around, both in mindset and in actual, you know, day to day actions that might make her healthier, and maybe from there she could just see where that takes her. Because to me, you know, I don’t know what to say about the birth control deal, that’s a really, really tough one, but I’ve just found that that can be the bugger in anything. It screwed me up for a while.

Diane Sanfilippo: Mm-hmm.

Liz Wolfe: And it screws a lot of people up. I think it’s really good to take the Lewis Labs brewer’s yeast, which unfortunately is going away, so stock up while you can.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: But I think that’s a good kind of answer to some of the depletion that occurs because of birth control. But these implants are; they are tough sometimes. Beyond that, I think that, you know, the alcohol and the dairy and the grains all of those could have a compound effect, you know, one on top of the other. If you want to play with that, play with it. I think it certainly has the chance of bringing you to a greater measure of health. But, that said, you can’t get frustrated in 2-1/2 weeks, and give up, because you won’t get a real good read of where those behaviors are actually going to take you.

Diane Sanfilippo: Right. Yeah. I think it’s a tough one, because we get to this point where we don’t love micromanaging people’s diets, because it drives you crazy with all the things, where you’re like, “well it could be this, or it could be that,” and I go from one extreme to the other where I’m like actually not putting yourself on some kind of a reset makes it really hard for us to know how these foods are affecting your body. Like, I don’t think dairy is a bad food.

Liz Wolfe: Right.

Diane Sanfilippo: You know, I think having a body that can tolerate dairy is great, and there could be this, it might be no big deal for her, but you know what? You don’t know for sure if it’s not working for you. Like, if your body is experiencing some sort of inflammation from it, and it might be putting you in a situation where you are resistant to weight loss, it could be just an inflammatory situation from some food that you are eating, or, you know, gluten one or two times a week. Like, you know, I don’t know for whom that’s ok or not. You know what I mean?

Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.

Diane Sanfilippo: I can easily say I think it would be better, because we would know it’s probably not these foods if those foods were gone, but it’s a self call. I think people; like, I’m interested to see, for example what is going to happen not eating any tree nuts at all, because I don’t know how much that was affecting the inflammation in my system, because it took a while to actually experience that allergy effect in my mouth, but who knows for how long that might have been causing inflammation in my body, right? And so, I’m not in a situation where I’m weight loss resistant, but if I were and I realized that I have this allergy, well now give it a couple of months not eating that food and just see what happens. Like, that’s the kind thing where these regular insults of foods that could be problematic, we just don’t know. We don’t know what could be happening there. They could be doing nothing, or they could be an issue.

Liz Wolfe: I do dairy as well, raw dairy. I do some wine. I don’t really do a whole lot of grains, or anything like that, but. I’m not wondering what’s going on with my body, you know?

Diane Sanfilippo: Mm-hmm.

Liz Wolfe: So, like you said, if you’ve got some kind of buggery thing going on, then you play with these things.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: I love raw dairy. I love it so much.

Diane Sanfilippo: I accidentally responded to somebody on Twitter, and I was like, I don’t even know how I ended up on their feed, but somebody wrote something about, like, pasteurized milk not being as bad as people think, and it still has these vitamins or whatever, and I was like, why am I even on this thread? Like, how did I even find it? And I was like, why did I even respond to this? I was like, I don’t want to read about your poo-pooing raw milk.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs} Agreed.

Diane Sanfilippo: I can’t really drink it, because I won’t tolerate it, but anyway.

Liz Wolfe: Should we do one more?

Diane Sanfilippo: But a pint of Jeni’s ice cream is a good thing now and then. {laughing}

Liz Wolfe: {laughing} Girls who eat their feelings. Girls who don’t eat anything.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} I just, oh Mean Girls is so great. I just really like amazing tasting food, so there you go. Uh, how to be healthy and very thin? Or, when will I be able to listen and trust my body? Where we going next? I think we’re trying for one more.

Liz Wolfe: Let’s just do this next one, and we’ll save the last one.

Diane Sanfilippo: Alrighty.

Liz Wolfe: We’ll do how to be healthy and very thin.

Diane Sanfilippo: Alrighty.

6. How to be healthy and very thin [53.40]

Liz Wolfe: “I’m a 20-year-old professional ballerina. I’m 5 foot 3, and weighed around 90-95 pounds for the last 4 years. I maintained this weight with moderate calorie restriction, probably about 1600 calories a day, and a gluten free but not paleo diet with at least 2 to 5 hours of ballet a day. I ate a lot of Greek yogurt, turkey bacon, egg whites, chicken breast, shrimp, fruit, cruciferous veggies, and moderate amounts of sweet potatoes, goat cheese, almond butter, sunflower butter, and natural peanut butter. I went through an incredibly stressful summer, and my anxiety and likely depression manifested in binges, like eating 2 pints of artisanal ice cream in one sitting, or a large portion of sweet potato fries meant for 4 people, plus a salted caramel milkshake after an extremely stressful day. In one month, I managed to gain over 20 pounds. I now find myself essentially unable to lose the weight, and I worry that I may have developed some insulin resistance, as I eat a lot of fruit, and much of my weight has settled in my tummy, though I also gained a lot in my thighs, obviously not good for ballet. This weight is most definitely not added muscle. As a dancer, I’m concerned that eating too few calories and carbs will jeopardize my performance, but I really need to lose this weight ASAP to secure my job. I realize my body probably isn’t at its healthiest at 90 pounds, so I’m aiming for 95-98. I’ve managed to lose only about 5-6 pounds in the last 2 months. My current diet looks like this, but I’m thinking of embarking on a lower-carb sugar approach, and possibly increasing fat. I don’t like eating savory foods before I dance, so that’s problematic. Nothing spicy or too rich. I also get really bloated from veggies in general, which is why I just load up on them at night. I’m also on a limited budget, so lots of grass-fed beef and fancy chicken isn’t really an option. Help please. I just started exploring the possibility of a paleo diet. What would you recommend?” Umm. Should I skip the food part? I think we pretty much got the idea. She does take an antibiotic for acne, calcium supplements, diet Coke. Diet Coke.

Diane Sanfilippo: Diet Coke.

Liz Wolfe: Low-fat dairy. So, I do have compassion for people that have to look a certain way for their jobs. That’s; I mean, that’s tough, and Diane…

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: I imagine you would say just kick around the idea of what your job is worth to your health. But, you know, it is what it is.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, it’s different than being, like a recreational marathon runner.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah, yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: You know, where like you are legitimately choosing that for pleasure, but then it’s like sort of hurting you, because, you know. This is definitely different. I’m going to let you kind of tackle this one.

Liz Wolfe: Well, I haven’t worked with a whole lot of athletes with this type of issue. Because for the most part, when we’re talking about performance, which, ballet is just like this convergence of aesthetics and performance that I honestly can’t even imagine trying to balance in my own life, so. Usually when I deal with athletes who are concerned with performance, they are willing to be a little thicker in the name of lifting a little heavier. So it’s tough. But, you know, this person is toying around with the possibility of a paleo diet. I think she pretty much gets the point, and the idea is, you know, whole foods and maybe just some strategic supplementation to make sure she is as healthy as she can be on a restrictive regimen as well as strategizing when you are fitting in these starchy carbs, because I just don’t think ballet and this level of activity is going to be possible without causing, you know, quite a bit of damage; I don’t think it’s going to be possible on a low-carb diet. So I think you’ve got to really strategize when you are taking in the carbohydrates.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah, so.

Diane Sanfilippo: I actually; you know, I actually had a thought now based on what she is talking about with, like, budget and whatnot, and not anything too spicy, and veggies bloating her. Which, I mean, I’m going to guess that that is a little bit of, you know, a need for either some digestive enzymes or she’s got some kind of bacterial imbalance if she’s really bloated from veggies.

Liz Wolfe: Well she’s on antibiotics for acne.

Diane Sanfilippo: Oh, there we go.

Liz Wolfe: Which, I don’t know if that’s internal or topical. If it’s internal, then that’s definitely something to think about.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, so, if that’s keeping her from digesting that stuff. But, one thing I think would be really helpful in terms of the food. I don’t, you know, how to lose 20 pounds. Like, if your body puts weight on that quickly, it’s probably, you know, she called it out, “I know my body probably isn’t as healthy at 90 pounds.” So, you know, 95-98, I don’t know how much healthier that is, at 5’3”, you know, legitimately a healthy weight at 5’3” is going to be at lot closer to probably at least 110 pounds, you know. This is just me kind of spitballing what I think what 5’3” looks like. I mean, I have a friend who also weighs around this weight who is not a ballerina, and I know what that weight looks like, and it doesn’t look healthy. But I get it, that, you know, this is your career. I don’t know what is going to happen, because if your body was angry that you’ve basically been starving it and pushing it to these physical extremes. I bet you there is some kind of book or blog or movie out there that is talking about all of this stuff, and how much women in fitness modeling and ballet and all these different careers that push their bodies. I’m sure with men too, but pushing your body to a place where it is so unhealthy for the career that it then kind of fights back at you and then it puts you in a situation where you may be battling this. I don’t know what will happen, you know. I’m going to give you a couple of ideas, but if you get to a place where you can’t lose the weight, I don’t know. I think that’s a really tough call, because starving yourself to get there, that’s a choice that becomes really scary. 1600; did she say 1600 calories a day with however much activity she is doing, 2-5 hours, I mean that is starvation. So, I think it’s a little bit…I think coming to terms with that is going to be really hard. Like, realizing that that is what you are doing for the sake of the career. I think it sucks that ballerinas are supposed to look the way they are supposed to look, quite frankly, if I’m being honest. I think soup could be a really good idea here. Really well cooked vegetables, and using lower quality meats that will cook down and still have some palatability to them. The soups will be sort of like partially digested in terms of veggies, so like carrots or sweet potato or some kind of other veggies that you want to use that, you know, test it out on days where you’re not going to be dancing and see what happens in terms of the bloating. But really making a lot of broth from bones and then getting more calories into that, you know, does coconut milk work for you? Things like that. But you still will be able to pretty easily cut back on some of the bad stuff by doing that, I think. I would really, I don’t know. I mean, if she’s trying to lose the weight I would stay away from the stuff like, you know, the sweets and the treats, but I don’t know. You need energy, but you’re trying to lose weight. You’ve got goals that are running completely parallel to one another that are never really going to meet. This is a really hard question for me to answer.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah it is.

Diane Sanfilippo: Because it is literally, like, you are asking me how to tell you to be unhealthy. That’s what you are asking me. So, that’s a hard question.

Liz Wolfe: But here’s the thing, though. You know, binge behavior isn’t healthy, either, so finding some kind of medium is going to be important. Don’t feel like all hope is lost, but the only way you can get to any point, point A to point Z, is to try and be as healthy as you can in the middle of that journey.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, but I think the problem is that trying to be healthy will put her body at a weight that won’t work for ballet. Like I think there’s a really tiny percentage of women who naturally have that really lanky, lean body shape, and we could only hope and pray that all of them become ballerinas so that none of the women who naturally are not like that, you know, are putting themselves in that situation. Unfortunately, I don’t think that’s the case. So we end up in a situation where we’ve got women who are, you know, dieting consistently for years and years and years, and the problem is this happened with one of my friend’s who was doing some fitness modeling. The point at which your body rebels is different for everyone. So like, somebody may keep a career in ballet for 10+ years and be totally fine, and then things turn. And somebody may keep a career in that for a lot shorter amount of time, and then your body says, heck no we’re not doing this anymore. Like, I’ve had enough. So, yeah. I feel badly that I can’t answer it better in terms of like, how to approach this, but it… it’s not just how to be healthy and very thin. When I read that title, I was like, ok. You know, we can talk to people who are naturally very thin. I don’t think she’s naturally very thin. I think it’s the tons of exercise and low calorie intake that is doing it. You know, 2-5 hours a day of ballet on 1600 calories?

Liz Wolfe: Gosh.

Diane Sanfilippo: That’s extremely restrictive. Like 1600 calories is restricted for somebody who is not exercising pretty much at all. Like, that’s not that much food. So, that’s a hard one for me. I’m sorry, I don’t know. I want to just give you a hug.

Liz Wolfe: I do too. Not me, her.

Diane Sanfilippo: You don’t want to hug me?

Liz Wolfe: No, not especially.

Diane Sanfilippo: Jerk!

Liz Wolfe: I will though, if you need it. {laughs} jerk.

Diane Sanfilippo: I don’t know if I’ve ever given you a hug. Maybe once.

Liz Wolfe: We’ve totally hugged a million times! The first time I ever met you, I hugged you, and I was like “was that weird?”

Diane Sanfilippo: You did?

Liz Wolfe: Yeah. On a street in Philadelphia. I even remember what I was wearing.

Diane Sanfilippo: It was weird. It was weird.

Liz Wolfe: Whatever, I’m a hugger.

Diane Sanfilippo: Kidding.

Liz Wolfe: I like hugging people.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Oh boy. Alrighty. Well, it’s been an hour.

Liz Wolfe: It has.

Diane Sanfilippo: Paleo kitty is sufficiently sleeping, because that was not really his kind of topic.

Liz Wolfe: The dogs in my house.

Diane Sanfilippo: {bell} Oh shoot, somebody’s at my house!

Liz Wolfe: Oh my goodness. Alright, we’ll sign off.

Diane Sanfilippo: Alright. I’m going to hang up.

Liz Wolfe: Alright. Bye!

Liz Wolfe: Alright everybody, that’s that. Balanced Bites podcast number 113 in the books. We’ll be back next week with more questions. Until then, you can find Diane at http://blog.balancedbites.com/. You can find me, Liz, in my homesteading adventures at http://cavegirleats.com/. Thanks for listening!

Cheers!
Diane & Liz