Podcast Episode #155: Paleo Bread, Fat Shaming, Green Juice & Food Photo Table Manners?

Diane Sanfilippo Podcast Episodes 3 Comments

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1.  Podcast changes [4:50] 2.  Diane’s updates [6:42] 3.  Liz’s updates [10:21] 4.  Food photography table manners [14:17] 5. Green juices and smoothies [20:29] 6.  Homesteading hijinks of the week [27:29] 7.  Fat Shaming & “Paleo” bread [30:43] 8.  Interactive listeners [53:31]

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Liz Wolfe: I’m recording too. You want to stop and start over?

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} No.

Liz Wolfe: OK. Hey everyone! Welcome to Balanced Bites podcast episode 155. I’m Liz, hi! That’s Diane.

Diane Sanfilippo: Hi. {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: {laughs} Hi. And, yeah. We’re here for you today. We’ve got some fun changes that we’re excited to tell you guys about. But first, let’s do a few words from our fabulous sponsors. First up, Pete’s Paleo, bringing fine dining to your cave. If you’d like to make eating paleo a little easier on yourself, check out Pete’s meal plans. Great for those nights when you need real food fast. Pete’s Paleo is now offering 21-Day Sugar Detox friendly meals to make your life that much easier on the 21DSD. Check out http://petespaleo.com/ for all the details, and be sure to check out chef Pete’s new cookbook, Paleo By Season, which has recently released.

Next up, Chameleon Cold-Brew. Their new ready to drink single serving bottles are hitting store shelves all over the place. They have a black coffee, a vanilla and a mocha. The vanilla and mocha are both black coffee and just really lightly sweetened with organic can sugar. They’ll have three new flavors coming out sometime soon, so stay tuned for details on that if you’re listening to this in August 2014. If you’re listening to it late, if you’re late to the party, they’ve probably already come out. So go to Chameleon Cold-Brew’s website, and check it out.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: And finally. You know, I’m just saying. Sometimes we talk to people in the future.

Diane Sanfilippo: Sometimes, we do, I know.

Liz Wolfe: So you all know we’re very excited about our newest sponsor, Splits59. It’s a high performance and high fashion active wear company based out of LA. They are launching a new pinnacle line, Noir de’Sport, which don’t think I’ve ever said properly.

Diane Sanfilippo: I think that sounded good. I’m doing a split right now into a deep lunge, just in honor of Splits59.

Liz Wolfe: I don’t know. You’re reminding me of somebody.

Diane Sanfilippo: I like to kick.

Liz Wolfe: Yes!

Diane Sanfilippo: Stretch. If you could see me, I am. I could put the video on.

Liz Wolfe: Stretch.

Diane Sanfilippo: And kick! Ok. I’m on my treadmill, so.

Liz Wolfe: Well, I can say croissant, I know how to say that.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: Anyway. Noir de’Sport, super innovative, with a hyper modern aesthetic, featuring things like welded seams, contrast geometrics, textural blocking and other intricate details. The main collection of comprised of two concepts, Mod City, which launched in August, and Space Race, which is launching in September. They’ve generously offered our listeners 15% off any regularly priced merchandise with Promo Code: BALANCEDBITES, one word, not case sensitive. And make sure you check out http://www.splits59.com/, as their big sale is going on. Is that still happening, or do we need to update this text? {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing} I think that was…

Liz Wolfe: I’m just a little ____ monkey.

Diane Sanfilippo: I don’t think the sale is still going on. But you could definitely check out http://www.splits59.com/. And.

Liz Wolfe: I don’t know.

Diane Sanfilippo: Let me see if it’s still there. The Ashby tank, which, I’m wearing one right now. I’m pretty much always wearing one. If you look at me, and I’m wearing a totally different outfit, I’m also wearing an Ashby tank underneath it that says, I heart Glenn Coco underneath it or something.

Liz Wolfe: Kind of like, I wear my New Kids on the Block nightie from 1992 underneath everything?

Diane Sanfilippo: Underneath everything? Yeah, exactly.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: So, if you go, let me see, if you go to their Ashby tank page on their website, there’s a little Instagram video of me wearing me, which I’m just kind of cracking up, but it’s my favorite tank top. I seriously wear it every day, everywhere, just one. I have just one. No, I’m just kidding. To bed, all over the place.

Liz Wolfe: That’s not that weird. I just realized I’ve been wearing the same pair of stretchy pants every single day this week.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Every day for the rest of the week.

Liz Wolfe: {laughing}

1. Podcast changes [4:50]

Diane Sanfilippo: OK. Well, ok. The changes that you alluded to earlier. We actually talked about this for the past few weeks on the podcast, but I think we’re almost at 3 years of doing this podcast. 52 times , but we’ve skipped a few. So I think we’re coming up on just about 3 years of the podcast, and holy cow, that’s crazy! Because I’m watching a whole bunch of people put out new podcasts right now, and listening to all kinds of different things, and I can’t even believe we’ve been doing it for as long as we have.

That being said, lot’s of you guys have been listening from the beginning. Some of you are probably newer listeners, and over the years we’ve had a few different formats and essentially we typically do a Q&A or we do an interview. I think what we want to do going forward is sort of mix it up a little bit. We’ve definitely had our segments where we do updates and questions and all that different stuff, but we’re going to start keeping it a little bit more consistent where we’re going through our updates and happenings in the paleo/real food sphere. Going through maybe some interviews; we might be doing some interviews going forward that are a little bit shorter.

Some people who we bring on the show, we have lots to talk about with them, so I’m sure we’ll still have some interviews that perhaps take up a whole episode. Especially, Liz, if you and I are traveling, and we’re not able to get on the call to record together. But I think, giving you guys little snippets of different things so we can kind of keep it fresh, and just change it up a bit. So give us your feedback. We definitely want to hear from you, so tweet us or post on Facebook or Instagram, wherever you see us, and just let us know what you think, and definitely kind of stay connected in that way. So that was just a quick little update about the updates. {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: {laughs}

2. Diane’s updates [6:42]

Diane Sanfilippo: So, ok. A quick, housekeeping, sort of logistics scheduling update. The day that this airs will be September 4th, and you’re listening in the morning and you live in the New Jersey area, I’m going to be speaking at the West Caldwell public library, that’s my local public library that I grew up going to as a little tiny kid, when we used to rent video cassettes in the big black boxes, and craziness. So, come check me out there if you are in the area. The next round of the 21-Day Sugar Detox started on Monday, so if you’ve been interested in the program, you can definitely jump in and kick it off for yourself anytime, or you can join us with the next group that will kick off the first Monday of October. So, just kind of keep your eyes peeled for all of that.

A couple of other updates I have, Mediterranean Paleo Cooking for those of you who’ve been listening to me talking about it on the podcast, I’m in the last final stretch of working on edits. This is a project I’ve been working on with my really good friend, Caitlin Weeks, who is a fellow nutrition consultant. She lives in San Francisco, and we’ve been friends since my San Francisco days, and her husband, Nabil, is a professional chef, and he’s also originally from Algeria. They have come together to create this amazing collection of recipes. I’ve been working with them since when they started and took all the photographs for the book, and really helped direct some of the content. Caitlin worked really hard to make autoimmune modifications, low FODMAP modifications, nut free, egg free, lower carb. Every possible note to help you guys make these recipes work for you, and I have to tell you. Liz, I can’t wait for you to get it too, because I know how much you love the, spend 10 minutes doing something and then just let it sit there and cook.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: And it just comes out and it’s amazing. And that’s a lot of these recipes are like that where you’re getting bone in chicken, and all the broth just oozes and cooks together, and is super healthy and delicious. Anyway, the recipes are just amazing. So different from anything I eat regularly, and I got to taste every single thing, and it’s amazing! So I’m excited for you guys to get that.

The book is being pushed back a little bit because we just added, I think there’s 100 pages more than originally was planned. The book was supposed to be 304 and now it’s 432, so it’s going to be as big as Practical Paleo, which is freaking crazy, because Practical Paleo is gigantic. But this book is also gigantic. We wouldn’t have it any other way. So it’s being released October 28th. So stay tuned, we are probably going to be touring that week. I will let you guys know the cities we’re coming to as soon as I have anything confirmed. But they are sort of dotted around the country, and we’ll see what happens, but I have to wait to get some confirmation on where we’ll be. But definitely stay tuned for that.

And the very last thing that I want you guys to know about is that BJ’s and Sam’s club both carry Practical Paleo, so if you’ve been looking for a place to get it at a really great discount, they both carry it. Target carries it too, it’s regular cover price, but if you’re in Target, you can definitely check it out there. And if you’re on my emailing list, you’re getting healthy shopping lists for all of those stores. We have the BJ’s list coming out soon. So just check out the mailing list if you’re not already on it, because that is where you’ll find those shopping lists. And that’s it.

Liz Wolfe: That’s it?

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: That’s all you have going on?

Diane Sanfilippo: 20 minutes of updates. I mean, that’s not really all, but we’ll get into that in a minute, so.

Liz Wolfe: That’s most of the podcast, is your freaking updates, man.

Diane Sanfilippo: Oh, jeeze.

3. Liz’s updates [10:21]

Liz Wolfe: Here’s my update. I now own a pair of overalls.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing} I was laughing prematurely, because I saw this in the notes.

Liz Wolfe: I wrote it down. It’s so funny. We’ve got these show notes that we share while we’re recording the podcast, and Diane has bullet points, all of these different updates, and mine is, ‘Liz owns overalls’.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, but you're keeping things alive over there, and I barely keep paleo kitty alive, because every night he comes and cries to me, and I’m like, oh shoot, I need to feed you! {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: Look, God, gave animals the ability to make sounds so that they could remind us that we need to feed them.

Diane Sanfilippo: That’s really what it’s about.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: So, you own overalls. Is this, you found a pair that you had when you were 12 and you’re wearing them again? Or did you buy a new pair?

Liz Wolfe: No, no. I bought a new pair of overalls.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Where did you find overalls?

Liz Wolfe: And I can’t even…

Diane Sanfilippo: Delia’s? Are they from Delia’s?

Liz Wolfe: {laughs} Delia’s! They’re not fashion overalls. Duluth Trading Company is …

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing} {coughing}

Liz Wolfe: My new favorite place to shop. They’ve got all kinds of cool stuff for homesteady, you know, people who do stuff with their hands.

Diane Sanfilippo: Are you going to bedazzle them.

Liz Wolfe: No, they’re pink! They’re so cute!

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Shut up! Pic or it didn’t happen! We need a pic {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: They’re this deep pink, and I can’t even tell you, for some reason I’ve just been, I feel like want a pair of overalls. And I can’t really explain that, because it doesn’t really make sense to have this big gapy thing where bugs can just get down your pants, but for some reason, I just feel like I needed some overalls. So, I bought some overalls, and they’re really cute, from Duluth Trading Company.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Or so you thing.

Liz Wolfe: They’re super cute! I got them and tried them on today, and they actually don’t look that goofy. I’ll take pictures.

Diane Sanfilippo: Alright, I want to see this.

Liz Wolfe: You wait, I’ll take pictures. They’re adorbs. They’re adorbs. And I got, what else did I get? I got a machete.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing}

Liz Wolfe: I got…

Diane Sanfilippo: Is it pink also?

Liz Wolfe: It is not pink, unfortunately. I don’t even like pink, but I was like, ok, if I’m going to get overalls, they should probably be not denim {laughs} not like engineer stripe overalls.

Diane Sanfilippo: Ooh, I would like that.

Liz Wolfe: Maybe do something a little bit different. So that’s my big news. I’m working on a lot of stuff, but nothing is really in that place where I can start talking about it. Although, I will say, I’m in the very, very beginning stages of some huge new skin care stuff, which is really exciting, but. Like you said before, my first priority has to be keeping animals alive, which is always fun. Which right before we started the podcast, I had to say, give me 5 minutes, I think I have a dead chicken. {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} I should post a screen shot of that.

Liz Wolfe: Dead chicken? It was not a dead chicken, it was a large pile of non-chicken feathers.

Diane Sanfilippo: Non-chicken feathers?

Liz Wolfe: From what I could see, they were not chicken feathers.

Diane Sanfilippo: Ok.

Liz Wolfe: It appears that a large bird maybe, or something, came down and attacked a smaller bird, or something. If I mowed my lawn every once in a while, I would probably have a better view of the crime scene, but.

Diane Sanfilippo: You’ve said bird enough times for me to definitely lose interest. I don’t like birds.

Liz Wolfe: Bird, bird, bird, bird. The bird’s word.

Diane Sanfilippo: Alright. More updates. What are you doing over there? Are you working on new stuff, or secrets? Mostly secrets.

Liz Wolfe: Mostly secrets. Yeah, mostly secrets because I don’t want to start getting people really excited about something that’s not going to happen until 2015.

Diane Sanfilippo: {Laughs} Ok.

Liz Wolfe: So, maybe November I’ll start throwing out some tidbits there.

Diane Sanfilippo: OK. Well, we’ll have some updates on other stuff from us probably in about a month or so, too.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

4. Food photography table manners [14:17]

Diane Sanfilippo: Alright. So, we’ve got; oh, sorry. What?

Liz Wolfe: No, you do it, you do it.

Diane Sanfilippo: This week, in the paleo sphere. {laughs} Alright, so this is the next segment. I think I’m going to have Scott workup some fancy audio…

Liz Wolfe: Transitions?

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. So somebody can recognize..

Liz Wolfe: {sound effects] This week…

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. Something with electronic music. I have no idea.

Liz Wolfe: That’s a good idea.

Diane Sanfilippo: I don’t know anything about producing audio.

Liz Wolfe: If we could just press a button.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Liz Wolfe: Overalls, cool {noises} this week in the paleo sphere.

Diane Sanfilippo: Ok. Alright, I’ll get on him about that. Ok, so there’s a few topics here. I don’t know if you’re still looking at the document, and I’m going to pick one, and then if you want to pick one, and we’ll see what we want to talk about. But photos; taking photos at the table. Whether you’re at a restaurant, or at home. Is this rude, is it not rude? I’m going to give out my 2 cents, you want to give out your 2 cents.

Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.

Diane Sanfilippo: You guys can tell us what y’all think. So, this stuff. Showing people what I’m eating, or cooking, or what I order out at a restaurant, for me. This is my job. So I think there’s a balance to be had. If I’m dining out with people who don’t do this for a living, generally, if it’s not something I really need to take a picture of, it’s not interesting, or new, or different, whatever, I don’t. If it is, I take one picture and then usually put my phone away and just post it a little bit later.

If it’s a bunch of food bloggers {laughs} literally every person at the table is sitting there with their phone, and I’m pretty sure none of us care, because we all understand that this is what we do, and a few minutes later, it stops, and we’re talking and eating, and enjoying our food. Nobody takes it personally, nobody gets offended or upset by it. I think there’s just a really big difference between doing it to be dismissive of the person in front of you versus, this is part of your work and part of your livelihood. I do think there’s a balance of, do you have to post it right this minute, or not? So that’s kind of my take. What do you think, Liz?

Liz Wolfe: So, I’m the person that still doesn’t understand that it’s probably part of my job to post pictures of what I’m eating, because I forget. I never post pictures of what I’m eating. I just remembered once the other day, and people are like, wow! You’ve got to do this more often!

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: So I forget. And generally, I’m the “food blogger”, even though I’m not a food blogger, I’m a lifestyle blogger that sometimes manages to get a decent recipe up. I’m the one that’s not taking a picture of my food. I don’t know why. I think maybe I think that other people probably think we’re being rude or disruptive, so I don’t do it, because for some reason I feel guilty or I feel bad, but I don’t even do it when I’m at home.

Diane Sanfilippo: By yourself?

Liz Wolfe: When I’m by myself. Because I just want to eat the freaking food!

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. Here’s the thing that I think is important too, for people who are listening, if this is sort of your livelihood too. We know we have a ton of coaches out there, right? Whether they’re Crossfit coaches, or nutrition coaches, or NTPs. And if it’s your livelihood, I think it’s important to recognize, if you’re with people who don’t really get that you kind of have this life on the internet of what you share, then take the picture, put the phone away, and do it later. I do think that people want to see what we eat every day. People want to know. Here’s what we teach about, how do we live it?

I think it’s important to recognize, this is stuff that I’m going to be talking about a lot in my business program, which let me just add to the list of projects that I’m working on. We are not our own customer fan, whatever that may be. You and I, we read information and learn from other people. It’s not from each other, really so much, but we have this really great group of folks who are interested in learning from us, and we have to make sure that we put ourselves in their shoes, and that’s my take. I put myself in the shoes of our listeners, and I think what would they find interesting, or what do they want to see about what’s going on.

For example, when we were in Greece, people wanted to see. What are you eating? Granted, of course I’m also posting stuff just because I want to save it for posterity sake. “This beach was amazing!” I’m pretty sure most people are like, screw you! You’re on a beach!

Liz Wolfe: Another beach!

Diane Sanfilippo: But posting pictures of what I’m eating while I’m traveling, people love seeing that because they want to know what’s the advice while I’m traveling.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah, I guess it’s alright.

Diane Sanfilippo: I want to see what you’re eating.

Liz Wolfe: You do?

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: Ok.

Diane Sanfilippo: I want to see your smoothies. So when Nicole, the designer on my team…

Liz Wolfe: I know! People…

Diane Sanfilippo: She said she made a liver smoothie yesterday. I was like, oh, what’s for breakfast? She had a liver smoothie. People want to see.

Liz Wolfe: People are doing that all over the place. And there’s a hashtag! There’s liver smoothies with Liz.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yes. Yeah. It’s big.

Liz Wolfe: I’ve got to participate, but I forget! I wake up, and these freaking dogs, and the husband, and the animals. I’m just trying to get some food in my body before I go out and deal with all different kinds of animal feces for an hour. OK. I’ll try and take more pictures of my food.

Diane Sanfilippo: Feces is your purview. You have to watch this episode of Comedians in Cars with Liz Lemon. With Tina Fey. {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: People keep telling me I have to start watching that.

Diane Sanfilippo: Liz Lemon! It’s really good. There’s not that many to watch. You can watch it in a day. I know how you binge-watch Bravo. You can binge watch.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah, by the way, I finished seven seasons of True Blood in two days.

Diane Sanfilippo: I’ve never watched an episode of True Blood.

Liz Wolfe: I don’t recommend you do.

Diane Sanfilippo: I’m not going to. Have you watched Orange is the New Black, or no?

Liz Wolfe: No.

Diane Sanfilippo: Ok. Alright. Go watch that.

Liz Wolfe: I was waiting on my husband for that one.

Diane Sanfilippo: Ok.

Liz Wolfe: That one and House of Cards.

Diane Sanfilippo: Ok. Well, this week, is there another topic you want to grab and talk about here, yes, no, maybe?

5. Green juices and smoothies [20:29]

Liz Wolfe: Let’s talk about green juice and smoothies, because this just kind of never goes away. And I’m interested to hear what you have to say about this, because I am actually kind of; I like the idea of freeze-dried powders. Like, if you really want to get all of those whatever plant constituents into your body, which I think probably shouldn’t be prioritized above the fat soluble vitamins and all that, because those help us make more out of less. But most smoothies and most of these mixes are really just full of garbage and full of stuff that you really don’t need in there. But there is one company, and now it’s slipping my mind.

Diane Sanfilippo: Everybody wants to know what it is!

Liz Wolfe: I know. I think it’s Pure Synergy maybe?

Diane Sanfilippo: Ok.

Liz Wolfe: Synergy, let me see.

Diane Sanfilippo: I’m sure Synergy is in the name, because.

Liz Wolfe: Synergy is definitely in there. Ok, the Synergy company, I think.

Diane Sanfilippo: They synergize things.

Liz Wolfe: And they’re wicked expensive. Wicked expensive. But they use whole plants, and they’re freeze dried, and I’m just really into this freeze drying thing right now, and I really wish I could start a company of just freeze dried stuff, but you literally can’t freeze dry stuff at home. You have to have a big industrial freeze dryer.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: So, if somebody really, really wanted to drink all of their plant constituents really fast in the morning, maybe I could say, alright, if you want to spend $50 bucks for a tiny little thing of green powder, then get this Pure Synergy stuff. Or, you know, if somebody really wants to take vitamin C. I really like Pure Synergy’s vitamin C because it’s a complex of different really vitamin C-rich berries, versus just one isolated compound of vitamin C. So I like that. But other than that, I think most of these shakes and stuff like that are multilevel marketing gimmicks, they’re just a real waste of money. So that’s where I’m at at this point. So maybe depending on what you’re actually buying. But what are your thoughts on that?

Diane Sanfilippo: Well. I do have a blog post somewhere, which I guess we’ll probably put a link to, on what I think of green juices and smoothies and all that kind of stuff. But in general, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with green juice as part of an overall balanced diet that includes protein, fat, all the other good stuff. I know Hayley, our good friend, has been making a bunch of juices, and she’s feeling really good doing it, but I also know that that doesn’t replace real whole food for her. It’s not, I’m going to drink this juice instead of eating eggs or bacon or any of that. So I actually think it’s fine to add it in. If you want to replace one serving of fruit that you might eat with a green juice that maybe has half a piece of fruit and mostly vegetables, I think that’s kind of a good idea.

I think the smoothie part, if you have a high powered blender and you want to just blend things instead of juicing them, I think that’s fine. I tried making a smoothie once with vegetables. It had avocado in it. {laughs} I was trying to follow some kind of plant based recipe some blogger put out, and it was a disaster and I could not drink it at all. But, I used to make green juice pretty regularly when I had a CSA and when I had a lot more access to veggies that I could just buy around the corner, and I would buy cucumber, celery, kale. I think I would put a little bit of green apple, and maybe lemon, and all that kind of stuff. The kale stems, because you’re buying whole bunches of kale, and what do you do with the stems? But I would just juice them. And I thought that was pretty good. And it added in to whatever I was having for breakfast. I would just have a little cup of that juice alongside it.

I think it’s fine, I just think there are certain things that people can easily over do. Like raw spinach, I don’t think we want to overdo that, and I do think we want to do a lot of the raw potentially goitrogenic vegetables if you know you have a thyroid condition. It’s not that this stuff is going to give you a thyroid condition, but it’s just overdoing anything just kind of look out for it. I still have a juicer. It’s sitting under in my cabinet, and maybe I’ll break it out again at some point. But, I’m pretty neutral on it, you know. I don’t hate them, I just think that sometimes people go too far. Just like the whole idea of people who just want to eat bacon for their whole meal, every meal. Let’s not do that. {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: People who just want to drink juice all day, only juice, four times a day.

Diane Sanfilippo: Four times a day.

Liz Wolfe: Because they’re cleansing.

Diane Sanfilippo: Oh, that’s the other thing. And I talked about this in one of the Sugar Detox videos. Your body actually needs protein. It needs amino acids to carry out liver detoxification in the two different phases that your liver goes through in liver detox. You need amino acids to carry that out. You also need choline, which is found in things like egg yolk and liver. You need those nutrients. Your body actually has to use those nutrients to carry out those processes, and just drinking juice, while it might feel good, I think it’s a lot more psychological than it is physiological that it will do anything to detoxify or “cleanse” you.

I think it’s really just a guilt issue. People are feeling guilty about their food choices, so they want to make this cleanse their answer, and I don’t think that’s really it. I think if you’re going to turn to, if you were eating donuts and pizza for a week, and you want to just go to eating real food, then cool! Get rid of the donuts and the pizza and start eating real food. But, juice for a week isn’t doing anything more to help your body than just eating veggies and meats and seafood and eggs and all that stuff.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah. I guess perhaps a lot of it is about the behavior around the food.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. And I think there’s a guilt around certain food, and I think a lot of people still feel somehow guilt or that there’s some unhealthfulness to meat or to bacon. If you’re buying really good quality bacon, especially, we need to stop having any kind of guilt or shame around eating that or just this weird ick factor around certain foods. It’s just a little silly.

Liz Wolfe: Ok, I have a bonus question for you.

Diane Sanfilippo: Bonus! {laughs} We need a sound effect for that.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs} Prancercise; yes or no?

Diane Sanfilippo: Always. And Harper, our dog, is an excellent prancerciser. It’s basically how she gets everywhere.

Liz Wolfe: Oh my gosh, same with little Scout.

Diane Sanfilippo: Awww!

Liz Wolfe: We should get them together.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yes. No.

Liz Wolfe: Play date.

Diane Sanfilippo: Play date from across the country.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

6. Homesteading hijinks of the week [27:29]

Diane Sanfilippo: What’s your homesteading mishap of this week? We need another sound effect for this one.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs} baaa! {chicken clucking} Something like that?

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: Something with a little banjo. {dueling banjos}

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing}

Liz Wolfe: Ok.

Diane Sanfilippo: Like dueling banjos? {dueling banjos}

Liz Wolfe: This could be really fun. Yes, yes! So, I posted this on my Facebook page, but weird stuff happens out here all the time, and I need to start writing them down, or maybe just texting them to you, so you can remind me to use these. Because most of the time, when these things happen, I’m out far from technology and just trying to get stuff done as quickly as possible. But, I posted a Facebook updated that I literally, a goat pooped in my shoe while I was wearing the shoe.

Diane Sanfilippo: I don’t, I don’t know how that’s possible.

Liz Wolfe: I don’t know either! I think maybe, they like to be real close to me when I’m in their little area, so I’m just standing there, and I’m doing something pig related, or something with the electric fence or something like that.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: {laughs} And I just turned, and I think the goat was just kind of up real close to me. And goats poop all the time. They have bodily functions pretty much constantly. And just kind of, I think whipped her butt around and was going, and all of a sudden, I had a bunch of little dingleberries {laughs} in my shoe. And here’s the thing; I’m not the best at standing on one foot. {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: And so I knew if I took that boot off.

Diane Sanfilippo: Ugh!

Liz Wolfe: And tried to get the dingleberries out, that I was probably likely to step on something more injurious than a little bit of goat dingleberries.

Diane Sanfilippo: I think you’re misusing the term dingleberry, by the way.

Liz Wolfe: Am I? What is it?

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} A dingleberry would still partially be hanging from the goat. {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: Oh.

Diane Sanfilippo: Ewww!

Liz Wolfe: But they’re like little berries.

Diane Sanfilippo: Ok. Little turds?

Liz Wolfe: It’s actually quite interesting, how their digestive systems work. But anyways, I walked back to the house with my dingle shoe on.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: {laughs} It’s not that funny when I say it out loud, but it was funny at the time.

Diane Sanfilippo: It sounds horrible.

Liz Wolfe: I know. I know. Alright. So what’s the next segment?

Diane Sanfilippo: Well. {laughs} We actually went out of order. You guys, we’re so good at following this whole new format, that we totally messed up already.

Liz Wolfe: Hey. It’s growing pains.

Diane Sanfilippo: Listen. Growing pains. We were supposed to save our kitchen tip and homesteading mishap for the sort of more ending part.

Liz Wolfe: Oh.

Diane Sanfilippo: But, that’s ok. Hey. Nobody knew that until I just said it. Why don’t we talk about our kind of main little meaty topic for this week?

Liz Wolfe: Yeah. Let me introduce it.

7. Fat Shaming & “Paleo” bread [30:43]

Diane Sanfilippo: We’re kind of fluctuating between listener questions, interviews, and then you and I, pretty consistently, we have these topics that kind of crop up that we get a lot of questions about in general, and so instead of pulling specific questions we kind of go on the topic. So this weeks’ topic; let’s see if I can get a little clip here to get it going. Hang on; one sec.

“I really want to lose 3 pounds.”
“What are you talking about? You’re so skinny!”
“Shut up.”

Diane Sanfilippo: Ok. So for anybody who doesn’t know {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: Best; hashtag best!

Diane Sanfilippo: Hashtag Mean Girls. So, for anybody who doesn’t {laughs} recognize that clip, it’s from the movie Mean Girls, and this week, if you are not on my Facebook page, there was kind of some stuff that went down where basically there is a company out there whose product I don’t endorse or like, and people have asked me about it for a really long time. For years, since people have been asking me, I’ve just said, I don’t like it, I don’t recommend it.

Liz Wolfe: Can I interject really fast?

Diane Sanfilippo: Yes.

Liz Wolfe: It’s ok to not like a product.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: Or a book, or anything. We all in this community I think try and support one another, but when something does not fulfill our personal expectations, it’s ok to not like it or not support.

Diane Sanfilippo: Totally.

Liz Wolfe: You don’t have to be a jerk about it, but it’s fine. And I want to send that out to the baby bloggers, too.

Diane Sanfilippo: Oh yeah.

Liz Wolfe: People who haven’t been blogging for very long who have people reaching out to them, saying, hey will you do this affiliate relationship, or will you support our product? You don’t have to if it doesn’t sit right with you.

Diane Sanfilippo: And in fact, you shouldn’t. And that’s my big thing, is that it comes back to my integrity around what I believe in in terms of, not only the type of products that I want people eating every day, but do I even think this specific product is great. So here’s an example. I think Paleo Treats are great. The company I like, I like the product itself. Do I constantly put links to it for people to buy it every minute? No. And I love them, as people, and I love the product. I think it tastes great, and it’s made well, and it has good ingredients. But it doesn’t align with my every day what I want to share every post I make, whatever, to just talk about treats and I have no problem with that.

Liz Wolfe: And they don’t either.

Diane Sanfilippo: They don’t either! And they don’t eat the stuff every minute, and they know not everyone is. And they know when we want it, we have it, and here’s a great one to go for. So, plug to them, love them, love their products. So when there’s a company I have never gone to any lengths to bash this company. I literally answer the question when people ask me, do you like it or recommend it, no. And earlier this week, or maybe it was the end of last week, I shared a link about this company had questions regarding the labeling of their product being wrong, and there was an FDA report on what they may not have right on their label. And all I did was share it, and say, hey you guys, check this out! You guys have asked me about this stuff for a really long time, and I’ve never liked it or supported it, here’s some more information that’s coming out now about the labels on the product.

This company then took that opportunity to, not reach out and say, hey, how can we help you like our product more? Is there something we could do with it? None of that. They’ve never, I’ve never endorsed it and so it’s not like I was endorsing it and now I’m turning on them or whatever. I don’t owe them anything, they don’t owe me anything. Whatever. But basically just took that opportunity to personally bash me, and call me fat {laughs} on their website and in a video interview, and really. The whole thing had no bearing in anything real. They’re offended that I didn’t like their product, and I shared something they didn’t want me to share, and so their response was to call me fat, and to post pictures from PaleoFx that I think were screen shots of a video, even, which anybody who takes a screen shot of a video; I don’t know, good luck finding one that’s flattering.

Kind of the point of why I wanted to talk about it this week is that, despite the fact that it’s just annoying when people crap-talk you all over the internet, it’s par for the course. I expect it. My skin is thicker than it ever was before, because when you have a book that’s out there, and three books at this point that are out there, and this podcast, and everything that we do, there are going to be people who don’t like what you’re doing, for whatever reason. It’s fine. I can’t help people like everything that we’re doing.

But two things happening here. One, them calling me fat? I kind of roll my eyes and just, whatever. It doesn’t personally upset me because I don’t think or believe that I’m fat. The bigger is, if I were overweight, making a note about my weight really has nothing to do with my contribution to this community, especially because the things that I teach and preach really don’t have anything to do with being ripped. And I don’t think anybody who listens to this show, or reads the blog, or who has read my books, has ever gotten the message that the goal of what we’re doing here is to be ripped, or shredded, or whatever. I know that everyone listening to this podcast is like, of course not. We’ve heard you say this a million times. This is what you and I kind of talk about all the time, is that that is not what it’s about.

In fact, the majority of women who come to us who look amazing, and this is not to say all of them, at our seminars, this has happened to you and I countless times. They comes to us, immediately we might look at them and think, wow, she looks fantastic. She tells us she’s not menstruating. Or she has PCOS, or she has some kind of hormonal imbalance. Again, this is not to say that everybody who looks like that does, but just I know you and I, and I can really speak mostly for myself, of course. My goal with what I’m teaching has nothing to do with getting anybody to be shredded or ripped or any level of somebody else’s approval of what they look like. That is not what I’m here for.

Liz Wolfe: And quite frankly, you could sell a hell of a lot more if you were about nothing but dieting, getting ripped, getting skinny, getting lean. Because that stuff sells. But that’s just not what either one of us are about.

Diane Sanfilippo: No. And if I wanted to get myself to that place visually, I know how to do it. Do I want to do it? No. It doesn’t align with my integrity, it doesn’t align with the lifestyle I want, it doesn’t align with what I like or want or chose to eat on how I want to live my life. It also doesn’t align with the example I want to set for the tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands of women who listen to what we’re doing, and don’t just listen to what we’re doing, but they look at us as an example visually. Do we practice what we preach? And that’s not just a matter of 5 pounds here or there. And I’ve said a million times, helping someone lose 5 pounds, I won’t ever do it. Somebody sent me a message, even when I first started out as a client, they just wanted to lean out. That was their real goal; I wouldn’t take them as a client. That’s not my mission. I just don’t care about that stuff.

But the bigger issue is, when people just attack you, just based on the way you look, and don’t at all really speak to the level of information you’re sharing or how many people you’re helping; it speaks volumes about what they are not doing out in the community. So, I don’t know. What’s your take on the whole thing? I know you didn’t even really see this whole thing go down.

Liz Wolfe: No, I didn’t watch it or read it or anything like that. Usually, when something pops up on Facebook, I’m a little too lazy to actually look at what they’re talking about, but I’ll read the comments, you know, just to see if I can get the gist of what’s going on. I just think; this is a larger issue, obviously, that I think is getting a little bit more screen time. And I think that’s great. I think people are talking a lot more about body image, and having a sense of self love despite something that you think is wrong with you. You know what I mean?

We’ve talked about this before. I’ve come to terms with something that’s not “perfect” by some current social estimation, and now I love myself anyway. No, it’s not about that. We’ve talked about this a million times. But, there is definitely kind of a divide I think in the paleo community where, I’m just going to call it vanity. I don’t know if that’s the wrong word for it, maybe that sounds like a pejorative, or like I’m saying something negative about the people that do just want to look good naked. That’s fine. If you go into this, and you say, I just want to change what I look like, that’s cool. That’s your thing. Like you said, I probably wouldn’t have you as a client, because that’s just not the population that I serve. But that’s ok, if it’s just about looking good, and you own that, and that’s fine. And by the way, when I say looking good, I mean by some current social estimation of what is socially validated or whatever.

But then there’s this group of people that I think we belong to, which are the people that look at this as a process of working towards health, and making progress, and being happy. And that, to me, maybe because I’m getting old, because I’m almost 31 {laughs}.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: That to me has made me so much more happy and feel so much more, I don’t know, fulfilled than I ever was when I was just trying to get lean or jacked or lean out or whatever it is. I just don’t think that has to be the goal for anybody. To that end, I’ve been reading a couple of blog posts lately of people; this is kind of a tangent. Of people who have quit paleo, and they’ve made big proclamations about why they’ve quit paleo, and what I read here, is people saying paleo didn’t work for me, AKA real food didn’t work for me, because it didn’t change the way I looked to the end that I wanted it. So I didn’t get lean. I had 10, 20 years of trying to get lean, and then I went on paleo because it was supposed to help me get lean, and then I didn’t. And so I’m quitting paleo because it doesn’t work and it’s BS. Or whatever.

What those posts make me think about is, is it really that paleo didn’t serve your body well, that eating real food, real nourishing, nutrient dense food, didn’t serve your body well? Or did it just not take your body the way you wanted it to look in the mirror? So there’s just so many things wrapped up in this one symbolic incident that I think we do need to talk about a little bit more. I don’t know, I kind of spun off on that one.

Diane Sanfilippo: I’m curious what you think you would have said or done. So here’s the thing; when I shared this post, it was shared by Jimmy Moore, who is constantly beat up by people out there for what he looks like, or his weight, or his struggle, and we can never speak to somebody’s struggle. You don’t know what someone’s going through. Not only do you not know what they’re going through, even if you know what they’re eating, you have no idea the emotional situation of any other person. There are stories that I have about my own life that will never be relevant for me to share. And that’s part of my story and my struggle. And it’s just stuff that you just absolutely cannot know somebody’s story by looking at them. Whether they’re seemingly lean or not. You just don’t know. And I think that’s one of the biggest lessons in the last, probably 6 years of doing this work, is that how many people have come to us in all different states of physical appearance, and that’s such a huge lesson you learn. You don’t know what someone’s going through.

I’m just curious, what do you think you would have done? Do you think you would have said anything? Do you think you would have posted something? Not posted something? Because my reaction to it was, I saw they basically just started personally bashing me, and claimed that I personally attacked them. Which I absolutely did not, I would never do that, and I’m not even worried about the fact that I might have, because I know that I don’t do that. But I honestly just felt like, some people were upset that I even called attention to it. And I was like, if someone wants to bash you out there in public, it’s not that I’m being defensive or whatever, it’s just I’m going to say my piece. And I have a platform to do it. And I’m allowed to speak for myself. And I think shame on you for saying that I shouldn’t defend myself, or say something for myself. That was my take for the people that were like, why are you even bringing light to this. You know.

Liz Wolfe: Look, Diane, no offence, but people say a lot of  — things.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: Oh, sorry. You’re going to have to bleep that out.

Diane Sanfilippo: Explicit!

Liz Wolfe: 43 minutes. Write that down, I said the S word. But people say a lot of crappy things about successful people. I’m sure there are other people talking crap about you on the internet. But do you dig that up, and put it on Facebook? No. This is a very, I think, important thing to draw attention to because, first of all we have other information about this company that kind of paints them in a less than savory light. We’ve all had some kind of suspicious interactions with them, where we’re kind of wondering what their intentions are and whether they’re operating with integrity. People have had very bad experiences with them, and just yesterday, you know, I was at Natural Grocer’s, and I would like to pick up some of those coconut wraps, and I remembered that this particular company are the ones that produce those coconut wraps, and I didn’t want to buy them. I didn’t want to support them, because I think there’s stuff going on behind the scenes that makes them not a company that I want to support. If they come out and call me fat after that, I probably won’t be as {laughs}

It probably won’t be as easy for me to let it roll off my back as it is for you. I’m constantly learning from you, and that this blogging, helping people stuff does require a thick skin. But to me, it was totally appropriate for you to say, hey this company is saying something, not because they were actually personally attacked by me, because they were accusing you of doing something that you did not do. And just basically calling attention to the fact that poking holes in somebody else’s boat doesn’t make your boat go faster.

Diane Sanfilippo: It was funny to me, too, because they were like, obviously she avoids posting full body pictures of herself. Which,

Liz Wolfe: Which is hilarious.

Diane Sanfilippo: Which is first of all hilarious, because I’m like, have you heard of Instagram? I just want to know if you’ve heard of Instagram. Second of all, I’m not sure where in my every day teachings about what to eat, my ankles come into play. Because showing a full body picture of me just doesn’t, it’s not applicable to showing you what I’m eating, or teaching about any of this stuff. Perhaps if I were a fitness model this might be relevant. Perhaps. But, that’s not what I do. But also, it was just ridiculous anyway, because I’m like, what do you mean I’m hiding? You just posted a picture of me at an event that had thousands of people at it. And also…

Liz Wolfe: You post videos of yourself doing athletic, what, a snatch the other day? {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} I know! So that was what was, I know, right?! And that was really funny to me, because obviously, we’re grasping at straws, we’re so upset. And then, the other thing is, then they come on the thread on the Facebook page and consistently post back to the video that they have where their talking about what their rebuttal to the FDA claims are. Truthfully, it’s just really funny because they’re like, all this is doing is increasing our business. You know, every single person who’s commented have said I’ve tried the products, they’re terrible, they arrived to me moldy, they just don’t like it. I never even said anything like that about the product. I actually never bashed the product. I just said, I don’t support it and I don’t recommend it. I never said, it’s horrible, it tastes gross. I never said any of that, because I haven’t ever purchased it or been sent it. I never said send it to me, I’ll try it. I have never actually even had it.

All that being said, whatever. If people read this and are like, I want to try it and see for myself. Whatever, I don’t care if it puts more money in their pocket. Because that’s not my goal. Me doing all of this is not about money. If they feel like they’re “winning” because it drives business to them, fine by me if that’s what winning is to you. I’m here to help more people change their lives and that’s my mission. Obviously, I make an income so I can keep doing it, but my goal is not about dollars. I didn’t post that to then post, here’s my better product. It’s just not what it’s about at all.

It was just, if you haven’t seen it, scroll through my Facebook page and find it. This all went down yesterday. This is Wednesday, August 27th that it went down in the evening. You can check it out. There’s tons of comments, you’ll never have time to read them all. But it’s just kind of hilarious, and it is what it is. For the people who are like, you’re just adding to the drama, Diane, why are you even posting this? Unfollow me. Whatever. It’s fine. {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: Categorically, the idea of adding to the drama. I think it’s totally fair.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: For you to have said, hey. Being falsely accused of bashing a company and now they’re doing this.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing}

Liz Wolfe: You were so balanced about it, and I think even though we’re getting a little bit heated here on the podcast, I think it’s important to note that we’re not sitting here bashing their character. We’re just kind of saying,

Diane Sanfilippo: Here’s what happened.

Liz Wolfe: Hey, number one, fat shaming, not ok. Number two, try and respect other people’s journey’s, because there are a lot of people in paleo that aren’t in it just to get ripped, there are people here that are literally trying to recover from life threatening conditions. Number three, I forgot number three, {laughs} but if this was really about defending oneself, you would do so in a balanced tone without having to attack others.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, this is elementary school level here. And truthfully, neither I nor you or any other blogger out there, or author, needs to like or endorse, as you said, every paleo product that’s out there. And there are lots of them that I love. Some of them are our sponsors. And we only have sponsors of products that we love. So that’s kind of; one example ,we love to promote products that we really love. I don’t have to promote stuff that I don’t love. And I absolutely won’t. And that’s just, I’m not going to waver on that. I don’t care if they want to continue to call me fat, or ugly {laughs} whatever, I don’t even care! Say what you want to say. It is what it is.

Anyway, that was this week’s rant/sharing/you know, hey. If you’re on your journey, and you’re dealing with issues of your own self image, body image, and people are being rude or attacking you or any of that. First of all, if you do this stuff and you have a Facebook page or a blog or whatever, you better believe that you have every right to delete comments, block people. There’s no reason that you need to allow negativity to stay there. Now, I will note, that I have not blocked or deleted or done anything to any of the comments that have been made in rebuttal on my thread here, so when the company comes in and this guy wants to post his video over and over, I have not touched any of those. Just because, I’m just leaving it there. Whatever you want to say.

If it gets really ugly and people start arguing with each other and being mean to each other, then I’ll do something about it. But anyway. You absolutely don’t need to let that stuff go on. I’ve developed a bit of a thick skin, so if people want to do this, do what they’re going to do. But if you’ve got people who are in your life who are making you feel less than because you’re still struggling with something, or even if you’re not struggling with it. Maybe you weigh more than they think you should weigh. Who gives a poop? Who gives a goat poop what somebody else thinks about where you are, or where you should be, or what’s healthy, or what’s not. That’s kind of the thing. Just do your thing. Eyes on your own plate, eyes on your own body, and worry about what you’re doing. Do the things that you’re going to do with integrity. Make the choices that are right for you.

You know, and I will say too; continue to listen to and follow those who are out there who stand up for what you believe in too. If you feel like other people who you follow maybe sometimes they post things that you’re like, well, I don’t know if I really think that has integrity or whatever, make a comment, ask a question. But you can absolutely unfollow. So if you saw this, and you didn’t like it, and you don’t want to follow me anymore, that’s totally fine. So, that’s my 2 cents on it. And then some.

Liz Wolfe: Well, I like it. And I think we get a lot of feedback on episodes like this where we talk about body image, and things like that. And I like to hear from people on this. I just got a really lovely email from someone who mentioned that this whole self love thing, not despite of but because we are amazing people that are working to progress and help others, that is impacting people. It’s definitely making a difference. There’s a huge contingency of us who aren’t just here for physique and vanity and stuff like that. We’re here for a lot more than that, and if you’re here, and that’s what you’re into, then we’re cut from the same cloth. I think this is reaching a lot of people. And we definitely want to hear from people on this, whatever you’ve got to say on body image and whatnot.

8. Interactive listeners [53:31]

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. Alright, {laughs} so let’s lighten it up a little bit to end out the show, ok?

Liz Wolfe: Ok.

Diane Sanfilippo: Alright. Our last couple of things here. What we’re going to do every week is kind of a listener feedback, interactive portion of the show as we close it out. And this week, because we didn’t do it last week to talk about on the show this week, I posted something on Facebook, and I said “Tell us” Liz and I, “What we need to be eating starting immediately, because our lives will be better if we do.” So a bunch of you guys commented, and I just wanted to share one that we really loved. It was from Alexis, and she said, “Tomatoes cooked down in bacon fat. It’s what I want to top everything with right now.” And so, I guess I’m challenging you, Liz, and myself to cook down some tomatoes in bacon fat this week, and maybe we’ll talk about how much we enjoyed it next week on the show. What’s our interactive little ditty for this week into next week? What do we want people to tell us about?

Liz Wolfe: I want to hear #worstpaleomeal. What’s the one food that you know is healthy but you just can’t bring yourself to like it. I’m guessing we’re going to get a lot of sardines and a lot of livers. But I still want to hear.

Diane Sanfilippo: Alright, so #worstpaleomeal. Post to Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, wherever you want to post to and let us know what you think is still sounding like it’s the worst paleo meal, but you maybe know it’s healthy. {laughs} You just can’t do it.

Liz Wolfe: It can be liver smoothies with Liz, #worstpaleomeal. That’s fine.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. Whatever sounds like the {laughs} worst paleo meal to you. Definitely post it, and we will share some of our favorites. We’ll probably share more than one next week. And what we are also going to do is pick our number one favorite, and do a little giveaway, because I think that sounds like fun, right? So Alexis, I’m going to say if we can track you down and send you a little message and give you something fun. I think we’ll probably figure out what we’re going to give away in the next week or so, Liz?

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: It’s probably going to be, I don’t know, like a book or something cool like that. Skintervention Guide.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: So, everybody kind of stay tuned for that.

Liz Wolfe: A lock of hair.

Diane Sanfilippo: Right.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: An eyelash. Something like that. A piece of leftover bacon from my breakfast plate. So stay tuned for that next week, and we’ll kind of keep you guys all posted on that. We don’t have our little closing notes for you.

Liz Wolfe: Oh, I have them.

Diane Sanfilippo: You have them? Alright, you're on.

Liz Wolfe: I have them.

Diane Sanfilippo: Alright, you want to close us out?

Liz Wolfe: {laughs} We’ll be back next week. We’ll probably be a little bit more organized, so stick with us. If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please remember to subscribe and help us spread the word by leaving a review in iTunes. As always, you can find Diane at http://dianesanfilippo.com, and you can find me at http://realfoodliz.com/. Be sure to join our email lists, where we provide exclusive content to our subscribers that we don’t put anywhere else. Thanks for listening.

Diane Sanfilippo: Peace out! {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: {laughing}

Cheers! Diane & Liz  

Comments 3

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