Podcast Episode #252: Practical Paleo, 2nd Edition

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You’re listening to the Balanced Bites podcast episode 252.

Welcome to the Balanced Bites podcast with Diane Sanfilippo and Liz Wolfe. Diane is a certified nutrition consultant, and the New York Times bestselling author of Practical Paleo, The 21-Day Sugar Detox, and co-author of Mediterranean Paleo Cooking. Liz is a nutritional therapy practitioner, and the best-selling author of Eat the Yolks and The Purely Primal Skincare Guide. Together, Diane and Liz answer your questions, interview leading health and wellness experts, and share their take on modern paleo living with their friendly and balanced approach. Remember our disclaimer: The materials and content within this podcast are intended as general information only, and are not to be considered a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.

Liz Wolfe: Hey everyone, it’s me Liz.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: And that’s Diane, giggling in the corner.

Diane Sanfilippo: Hey.

Liz Wolfe: I missed you.

Diane Sanfilippo: I’m back! Thanks.

Liz Wolfe: Were you gone?

Diane Sanfilippo: I was here. I was present, but totally buried under piles of paper editing, editing, editing. But I’m back. I’m excited.

Liz Wolfe: Well, we’re going to talk about that stuff today after we hear from one of our sponsors.

Liz Wolfe: Our podcast sponsorship today comes from Vital Choice, an online purveyor of the world’s best wild seafood delivered right to your door; because juggling a busy life shouldn’t mean you have to forgo healthy meals. At www.vitalchoice.com, you’ll find wild Alaskan salmon, halibut, tuna, sable fish, and cod, as well as prawns, crab, and scallops. You’ll also find grass-fed organic Wagyu beef, free range heritage chicken, fresh frozen organic berries, and dark organic chocolates. Make a vital choice by eating the highest quality food you can. Vital Choice; come home to real food. Use code BALANCEDBITES to save on your first order at www.vitalchoice.com.

1. News and updates from Diane & Liz [2:13]

Liz Wolfe: Alright, Diane, tell us some updates before we launch into the meat of this podcast.

Diane Sanfilippo: Ok, cool. So we’re going to talk a ton about Practical Paleo second edition today, and for those of you who may have missed the announcement last week, because it was a little bit of a lukewarm announcement last week. I did get into a little bit, but Amazon hadn’t fully updated I don’t think. So anyway, you can find it now on Amazon, you can actually go to practicalpaleobook.com and it will point you over there. So that’s kind of my big news right now, and sort of for the next couple of months, I think.

But to let you guys know, every week on Thursday; so this episode, if you’re listening the day that it’s out, every Thursday I’m doing Q&As live on Facebook; currently they’re at 4 p.m. Pacific time, 7 p.m. Eastern. If that proves to not be a great time for everyone, I might push it back by an hour to 5 o'clock my time and 8 o'clock Eastern, but we’ll see what happens. And this week I’m going to be doing more Q&A about the book and just kind of paleo questions in general, but every week it’s different Q&A. maybe some weeks I’ll do a cooking demo, but I think for the most part I really like doing the nutrition Q&A. I find that you guys are bringing great questions; there’s lots of new people, if you’ve got friends or gym buddies or family members, coworkers whoever who are interested in this stuff and really want to ask questions of, then that’s a good time to just send them there, you know. Let them know it’s happening every Thursday, and they can find me there. So that’s kind of the update on that.

And the other super exciting news {laughs} for those of you who listened to last week’s podcast episode, you got to know Cassy Joy Garcia; does she have another new last name also? Cassy Joy, I know she got married, and I don’t know if now…

Liz Wolfe: I think she’s staying Cassy Joy Garcia for work.

Diane Sanfilippo: For what everybody knows.

Liz Wolfe: Work related {laughs} yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: Ok, so Cassy Joy and I will be doing a book tour together. I’m so excited!! I am so excited.

Liz Wolfe: Oh em gee, oh em gee!

Diane Sanfilippo: I know. So her book was originally slated to come out in July, but I don’t know everything that kind of went down with it. There’s all kinds of stuff that always happens on the back end, just getting things out. But, it actually is releasing a little bit later in mid-August, which kind of worked out perfectly because Practical Paleo second edition releases September 6th, and I was like; hey, do you want to do this tour with me? Because I’m crazy and have just booked a very aggressive tour. {laughs} And it’s so much more fun to not do this alone. Like, just so much more fun. I think it’s more fun for people coming to the event, I think it’s just more; I don’t know. Everybody gets more out of it because there’s a different conversation, people are asking different questions, getting different answers, seeing different perspectives, and you know, for those of you who didn’t know Cassy Joy that well, you’ll get to know her at the events.

Anyway, I’m just really excited about it, and it’s time for me to get to know her even better too, because she and I have not spent a ton of time together in person; obviously, we’ve seen each other at a few events, but this will be just a really fun time to have some girl time, which I’m excited about. So, anyway, a very quick rundown of dates, and this will be posted all over social media, and you guys can RSVP at http://blog.balancedbites.com/events. So September 6th here in San Francisco will be the kick off; September 8th in Portland; September 9th in Seattle, and I believe that’s in Lake Forest Park. I’ve been to that store multiple times. September 10th in Tacoma, September 11th in Sacramento; the 13th in Phoenix, and that one will be myself and Cassy; well, all of these are myself and Cassy but the Phoenix event will also have Juli Bauer of PaleOMG. September 15th Kansas City is like the big huge event, because it’s Cassy and I and Juli and you; yay! {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: Oh em gee!! Again, oh em gee. I can’t, I’m so excited.

Diane Sanfilippo: I’m excited.

Liz Wolfe: I’m so excited that I can be part of an event where people will come and I can feel like; oh they’re all here for me. I mean clearly, it’s going to be like Juli, Cassy, Diane show, but I’m going to feel so popular and I’m really looking forward to it. {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: You’re extremely popular. Ok, so September 16th in Denver, and of course Juli will join us there, as well. September 17th in Boulder, September 20th in Chicago, which will be Skokie. That’s the store that a bunch of you guys came out to before where Liz, you were at that store last time with us. And September 21st I believe, or the 22nd, I’m not positive. I have a note here that it’s the 21st but I think it was supposed to be 22nd {laughs} will be an event in New Jersey, probably Monte Clair, and then September 24th in Austin. Sorry that took so long to get through. It’s very aggressive.

So if your city, or a city near you; if you’re within like an hour or 90 minutes, please come join us. But if we’re not coming to a place near you; I’m sorry. It’s so hard to pick locations to go to, it’s so hard to say no to anything. I’ve definitely got my eye on the East Coast for potentially another stent, maybe in October. I can’t make any promises, we’ll see what happens. But you know maybe somewhere in the Boston, DC, and Philly area; that’s kind of where my eye is on right now. Not sure about the Southeast at this point, but we’ll see.

I guess my only other word on that is, you know, we’ll have an RSVP link up, and if you guys love having authors come to your city, just make sure you keep showing up for events, because the cities that are on this list who have been on this list before, it’s because people really show up to the events. And it’s a lot for us to travel to all these places; we love to do it, it’s really fun, but it’s extremely exhausting, and we come back to the places where the crowds really show up. We love to meet all of you guys.

I’m super pumped about it. This is like; you know, it’s kind of the point of everything. You put the book out, and then getting to actually be face to face with people, it’s just to me the best. It’s the absolute best. So I’m pumped about it. So that’s it.

And then really quick; other point about events is that we will have some special insider information about the Balanced Bites Master Class at the live events, so if you come to the live events, you’ll get a special little tip about that and probably a little special offer, and we will also do at least one live online event, because of course we’re not coming to every city so that wouldn’t be fair if you didn’t at least have a chance to attend. So we’ll do an online event; some kind of video thing where maybe at least Cassy and I are on screen; maybe we can rope Liz into it, wink, wink. And do some kind of fun Q&A about the books, and then give you guys some insider information on the Master Class that’s coming up too, so there you go.

That was a lot. {laughing}

Liz Wolfe: That was a lot.

Diane Sanfilippo: That was a lot.

Liz Wolfe: And I lost you a little bit, and then you said, “and maybe Liz can come too”

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing}

Liz Wolfe: So I don’t know what I’m agreeing to, but yeah sure I’ll come. {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: I said maybe we’ll rope you into an online live book event so that the folks who’s cities we don’t get to can join us for some fun. Yeah, I know, the internet gets a little spotty in my random cement walled apartment, so. What’s up with you?

Liz Wolfe: I don’t know. I literally don’t know. I don’t know what’s happened in between the last time we talked and now.

Diane Sanfilippo: Unlike other weeks, it has actually been; actually it’s been 2 weeks, since I didn’t talk with you last week for the podcast.

Liz Wolfe: Huh. I mean.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

2. Liz’s Parenthood Facebook Group Discussions [9:54]

Liz Wolfe: Ok, here’s something. This is; I probably have talked about this on the podcast before, but we’ve been having some really good discussion in my parenthood group; and by the way it’s Parenthood with Liz Wolfe, NTP, on Facebook. If you want to join the group you can look that up and join us. You can request to get in. it takes me a long time to approve people, and I’m sorry about that, because you just get spam requests and I don’t want to deny anybody that is legit, but sometimes it’s hard to tell, because I know some people have joined Facebook just to get into this group, so things like that. So I’m basically having to creep on every single person’s profile {laughs} to make sure they’re an actual person.

Diane Sanfilippo: I totally get it; yeah.

Liz Wolfe: And it’s hard because I can’t check in with that group as much as I want to. I do as much as I can, but the whole point of this thing is, you know I’m working on Baby Making and Beyond, this is really where my passion is leading me at this point, and I need to actually work on the stuff that people are waiting for while checking in with the group whenever I can. So I get to it when I can, I approve people when I can, but it does take a little while and I want it to stay, as it grows, a safe space for everyone to talk and share. I just really want to be sure that the people in the group are, you know, people that I can trust to not take things incredibly far afield from what they’re intended to be while I can’t watch 100% of the time, so.

I wish there was like a virtual baby monitor for Facebook.

Diane Sanfilippo: Oh no {laughs}.

Liz Wolfe: So, yeah. So you can join that group. But there’s been some really good discussion in there about kind of different types of parenting, and really the group skews towards attachment parenting, which I think is lovely. But what we’ve been talking about lately, and one of the things that I’ve been thinking about a lot for the last year and a half; and hopefully sharing with people and people are getting a lot out of is the concept of aware parenting, which is kind of attachment parenting with a really deeply resonating emotionally supportive twist. And that’s not to say that attachment parenting is not emotionally supportive; I’m very pro-attachment parenting.

But I think where we kind of miss out in attachment parenting is a lot of us end up on autopilot with nursing or feeding a baby every time they have a feeling. And you hear a lot about people; pro-attachment parenting folks who say things like; well, hunter-gatherer babies don’t cry because they would nurse their babies anytime they were sad, or upset, or crying. Well, of course hunter-gatherer babies didn’t cry, because it was probably very, very dangerous to have a crying baby with predators and the types of lives that they led. So I think we have to put everything into context, including parenting things. Context of the world that we live in.

So, my ideas and where aware parenting really departs from attachment parenting is that aware parenting believes that crying is a very important call for communication and connection. So one of the things that had just absolutely burdened me and made my life and my daughter’s life really, really difficult for; oh gosh, the first 6-8 months of her life was that when she cried I absolutely went out of my mind. I thought I was doing something wrong, this is so scary, why is my baby sad, I have to stop this noise, the only way I can stop is by putting my boob in her mouth, and then it stops and then she’s ok.

Well it started to become increasingly apparent that she was not ok. Physically she was fine, she was very healthy; you know, a beautiful, vibrant child. But she needed to communicate with me, and I was so afraid of that, of that stressor on her little body, that I would just silence her with nursing. And it became apparent over time that she really was struggling in needing to communicate and I wasn’t letting her. So what aware parenting did for me was contextualize crying in a way that made me understand that it was a really beautiful opportunity for connection.

And I started to understand as well, as I got deeper into the research, that there are physiological difference between crying alone, for a child, and crying in the arms of a caregiver. So crying alone is a perpetual stressor. There’s no actual release of stress through crying when the stress is still kind of constant because the baby is alone. But when you are allowing your baby to express those feelings in your arms, given that all other needs are taken care of, you are actually enabling them to detoxify; literally, detoxify stress hormones through tears; catecholamines through tears. And adults can do this too; this is why it feels so good to have a good cry sometimes.

Diane Sanfilippo: That is fascinating.

Liz Wolfe: Isn’t it? It’s unbelievable. And it became this incredible opportunity to connect with my daughter and just communicate to her by being there with her through those feelings, letting her know that it’s all of her feelings; the full range of her feelings, I am comfortable with .and it was a really different; I’m getting chills even talking about it, but it was a really difficult road up to that point. And I think; again, this is not an insult to attachment parenting, this is an insult to going on autopilot because we subscribe to a philosophy and maybe apply it in a way that’s not beneficial to our kids.

So my story was, basically, at bedtime; and this is really, really common, children will need to release their stress from the day; especially little tiny babies; well, I mean, especially any baby, because they’re constantly learning. But when they’re teeny-tiny, they are being exposed to noises and feelings, and constantly things that stress them out, and they can wait for that peaceful time with you at the end of the day to just get rid of all that excess tension so they can fall asleep peacefully.

And for us, it had become this point where we tried all these different bedtime routines; we tried essential oils, we tried everything we possibly could just to silence the crying at night so she could go to bed. And it finally got to this point where literally I would go to bed at like 6:45 with her nursing, and we would just nurse all night long. And if my boob would fall out of her mouth, she would start crying, and I’d lug her to the other side because we were cosleeping, and I’d nurse her to sleep again, and back and forth. And what had really ended up happening was I had habituated her to needing my breast to be and stay asleep. And that was a need that I had created for her. Children are born with this inborn capacity to release stressful feelings in the arms of a loved one, but I had completely overridden that instinct and basically communicated to her that, “you need this to stop this so that you can fall asleep.” And it was with the best of intentions.

So I called Eliza Parker from Consciousbaby.com, who is absolutely amazing, and we talked through this, and she just saw into my soul and into my baby’s soul, and she was like; you need to let her communicate to you, and I’ll help you. I’ll help you through that process. And the first night; I’m still very pro-nursing, we did not night wean at that time. We did that much later when I felt more comfortable with it. But we had this incredibly detoxifying cry, and she fell asleep peacefully for the first time, like, ever. And it was such a revelation to me that now I’m just trying to spread the work about this concept as much as I can. And we’ve had some really good discussions about it in the parenthood group.

So circling back to the parenthood group. So if you’re interested in this concept, join the parenting group and type “aware parenting” into the search box; look at consciousbaby.com. You can Google Marianne Rose; mothering mentor, and see what she has to say. Aletha Solter is the founder of the concept, and the awareparenting.com website has a ton of really interesting articles that you can read about sleep, and nursing, and crying, and all of those things. It was really revolutionary for me, still a very attachment parenting grounded philosophy; very pro-cosleeping, pro-breastfeeding, things like that. But it just takes it to another level that I think is really resonating with a lot of parents; because as a mom, your baby crying, it is like the hardest thing in the world. So that’s my update.

Diane Sanfilippo: That’s amazing; how long has it been now?

Liz Wolfe: So, it’s been at least, maybe, wow it’s been almost a year now that we’ve been practicing aware parenting. It’s very fluid; I mean, it’s just, the core concept is first ask yourself if you're listening, or if you’re on autopilot. We kind of combine the aware parenting philosophy with RIE, which is resources for infant educarers.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: I know. It’s crazy. And really, you can’t follow any one parenting philosophy; you have to trust your gut. But some of these insights were just like; lightening to me. I was like, “What?!”

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: Like, my baby is a whole, competent person, ready to be respected and communicated with, and we can have two-way communication, it just maybe looks a little bit different than what we might think. It was just really; it hasn’t made me a good mother, because I still suck at this whole gig, but it has made me more reflective and just a little bit calmer and less anguished in my heart over things that I felt like were wrong that maybe just needed a different approach for addressing.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, I think a good point that you’re making here, too, is that as much as you’re not saying, “this one way for everyone.”

Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.

Diane Sanfilippo: I think when you strike on something that you kind of feel in your gut with making sense; because what you are doing at least ease some of what felt like pain at the time, but in your gut you felt like it wasn’t probably the best thing to do because it wasn’t resolving things.

Liz Wolfe: Right.

Diane Sanfilippo: For whatever reason, whatever the thing is. So I feel like finding new answers that sit well with you, and then realizing that things are going to be ok if the baby is crying for this purpose and this context. That’s like, the story of our podcast; what’s the context, right?

Liz Wolfe: Right.

Diane Sanfilippo: I think the point you made about, when the baby cries with no one there versus in your arms, and how different that can be, I think that’s a really interesting nuanced difference that seems; it might not seem like a big deal to some people, and I feel like that just clicked something for you, that it’s totally different.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: Right?

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, and you know I have no experience with any of this, but I’m like, wow that’s really fascinating. {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: Isn’t it?

Diane Sanfilippo: I feel like, yeah. It’s just; people are different kinds of parents because they’re different kinds of people, you know.

Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.

Diane Sanfilippo: So, yeah, I think that’s really amazing. That’s awesome! I’m psyched for you.

Liz Wolfe: It’s been amazing. I sing the praises of this everywhere I go. I don’t know why it’s a lesser known philosophy. I don’t know if people hear about crying in arms and just assume it’s the same as cry it out, or people; it really does kind of require you to get pretty in depth with the concept, especially against what the world tells us about parenting. So I think maybe some people are just not willing or wanting to do that; or maybe, for me, it really touched on a lot of very negative patterning in my life, where I have trouble crying. I have trouble with extreme emotions, whether happiness or sadness. So, it’s really made me turn inward and ask myself some really important questions, so it’s been an ongoing process for me. I mean, when you’re a parent, there’s just so much going on, and not everybody has time to even think about these things.

Diane Sanfilippo: I think that’s awesome. I think something that can help relieve perhaps unnecessary guilt that’s heavy, you know.

Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.

Diane Sanfilippo: On someone’s that’s a parent, I feel like that’s what this is helping some people do, but not in a superficial way.

Liz Wolfe: Right.

Diane Sanfilippo: Not in a, you know, “You’re fine, it’s no big deal, don’t worry about it. That’s fine, whatever you’re doing is perfect.” It’s not like that. It’s not glazing over it; it’s really digging in and helping you dissect what’s actually going on.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: And it seems oddly eerily logical and also super emotionally connected. So, it’s awesome.

Liz Wolfe: And this is why Baby Making and Beyond is taking so long, because we’re not just defaulting to that crunchy; everything is nuanced and we’re trying to keep that; we’re trying to respect that as much as we can. And particularly; you know, people hear about colic, and colic is kind of an umbrella term sometimes, and sometimes it’s just; this baby has survived some birth trauma or this baby just has a lot that comes out at the end of the day. So sometimes; you know, there are all these holistic tips for surviving colic, which is great; but if you just aren’t making any progress, it is possible that it’s ok just to be there while your baby gets those emotions out. And it’s just been a pretty amazing thing to us. And I am in no way saying that that is the explanation for colic in all circumstances, but it can be, and it has been for some people that I’ve spoken to.

So if people are interested in talking more about that, go to the parenthood group. I guess something is going on with me.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: So, alright. Tell; so our segment today. Wait, did you give your updates already?

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: I talked for a long time.

Diane Sanfilippo: It’s good.

Liz Wolfe: Ok.

Diane Sanfilippo: It wasn’t even really an update; yours was a little more of like its own whole separate thing.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah, it kind of was, huh?

Diane Sanfilippo: So it was more than an update. Yeah, it was good.

3. Shout out: Who is Diane following on Snapchat [23:42]

Liz Wolfe: We will be doing interviews in Baby Making and Beyond for members about topics like this that people are interested in, so that will be good. Alright, do we have a shout out?

Diane Sanfilippo: I think so. So you guys, those of you who follow me over on Instagram, there’s a post I made; it will be a little ways back at this point, but if some of you are on Snapchat and you want to follow a bunch of other people, somebody asked me who I’m following on Snapchat, and I think I typed up all of their names or at least I linked to them on Instagram, and they all list their Snapchat profiles over there. Juli from PaleOMG; Michelle of Nom Nom Paleo; Cassy Joy of Fed and Fit; Jenny from Paleo Food Kitchen; Bill and Hayley of Primal Palate; my friend Beth of Tasty Yummies; Trisha from Eat your Beets; Mary PaleoChef and Lexi from Lexi’s Clean Kitchen.

Not everyone just posts strict paleo stuff; some people are more gluten free; some people do stuff that’s autoimmune friendly, some don’t. And it’s a mix of; you know, Snapchat’s a mix of just random silly stuff going on in your life, people’s pets, people’s travels, people’s workout stuff, rants and raves, products we love, things we’re cooking; lots of things we’re cooking and eating. So definitely check it out if you’re interested.

I think it’s fun; if you don’t like it, if you’re confused about it, if you’re stressed about more social media {laughs} then don’t do it. No big deal. But for me, it’s fun to kind of get to know some people that I follow for different topics and just kind of see their behind the scenes and just dig in on stuff like that. And yeah, that’s pretty much it so check it out.

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4. Practical Paleo Second edition: what’s new [26:24]

Liz Wolfe: Alright. So today’s topic is; inquiring minds want to know.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: All about this new edition of Practical Paleo.

Diane Sanfilippo: New addiction?

Liz Wolfe: New edit; what did I say?

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing}

Liz Wolfe: New addiction. Sorry! Alright, should I just start that over?

Diane Sanfilippo: No, I think it was amazing. I like it just how it was.

Liz Wolfe: This new addiction of Practical Paleo.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: Can you just give us just a rundown of the new edition; what might have changed since you published it?

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: Because I know you're accumulating information always, and we’ve had some new information, new stuff come out in the last couple of years and I know you’ve worked really hard to integrate that into the book. This is like a new book, basically.

Diane Sanfilippo: It has felt like writing a new book. But I will say this, to people who are concerned that they’re like; “Ugh! Is everything I have in this first book totally useless? “I mean, no. it still stands the test of time. Most of what’s in there is totally still relevant. I’ve just updated it, I’ve expanded it, and the existing content has been kind of; I don’t know, just edited. Massaged and nuanced and little things have changed.

So I’ll go over with you guys a little bit about what’s different. I’m actually going to open up; I thought that’s what we had in our little document here, but it’s not. I’m actually going to open up the intro that I have where I talk about what’s different in this book versus the first book. I think you guys will really start to understand where I’m coming from, and understand why; one of the questions I’ve gotten is, why not a second volume, why a second edition?

The very first thing I want to say about that before I get into everything that’s different is that I did toy with writing a second volume; all new topics, all new stuff. But in my experience, having two books that cover some sort of similar content; so with the 21-Day Sugar Detox Guidebook and Cookbook, all that happened with having two separate books was a lot of confusion. And one of the things I love about this book, and one of the things I think most of you guys love about it is that it’s the one book you can point people to if they want like; where do I start, and where can I also get the why and the how with the recipes.

And of course, you and I; we talk about Practical Paleo, we talk about Eat the Yolks if people want a lot of the background information on more of why we’ve been misled, I think that’s where we obviously point people to, both of our books. But you know, people have called it the paleo bible. I wouldn’t call it that, but you guys have called it that. So the way I feel about it is, instead of making a new second book that a small section of people who have the first book might say, oh I want more information and just grab that second one that’s kind of extra information and then maybe some new recipes, I really wanted this book to continue to be the resource that it’s always been, that it’s been the last four years, that everyone still feels super confident in saying, “This is the book you should get.”

Because I think, you know, it happens over time that opinions change, or there’s updates that we want to make, or even something like the USDA food recommendations; the last time I wrote the book, it was talking about the recommendations that were the newest, most current at that time, so that’s definitely one of the things that’s changed with the new edition, is I’m talking about what the current recommendations are that were updated in 2015.

So things like that where; you know, I know how it feels to have a book that you love, but then be like; well, it came out like 4 years ago. You know, and things are a little different. The conversation is different. So that’s why I wanted to update it.

And I really feel like a huge bulk of the material that’s there; it’s the same, but a lot of it I’ve just kind of presented a little bit different. Because I found that you guys weren’t finding the information and you weren’t using it in a way that I thought would help people most, and that’s not a knock on the reader. To me, that means I haven’t done my job in presenting the material clearly enough or easily enough.

So let me go into a little bit about what’s new, kind of the small stuff. So I’m going to read a little bit of this, so I apologize for that, but this is what I have as a note in the second edition:

This book has been a little bit more than updated. It’s an entirely new edition with some major content additions as well as expansions upon the original content. Most of what I wrote in the first edition remains as it was, with some small changes in refinements here and there; for example, as I just mentioned, the USDA dietary guidelines, and I’ve made some changes to the discussion of the government’s nutritional recommendations.

I’ve also given the ever increasingly popular low-carb diet conversation a little bit more explanation about carbohydrates and their role in a healthy diet; why some people may need more carbs, how to tell if you’ve gone too low carb; how to easily include more healthy carbs in your diet, how higher-carb paleo meal may affect your blood sugar.

So in the blood sugar chapter in the past, there was basically a paleo meal versus a non-paleo meal, and the paleo meal was inherently low-carb, higher fat, and the non-paleo meal was higher carb, lower fat. But what I did was also put in that mix a higher-carb, slightly lower fat paleo-meal. So it was a little bit more apples to apples even in that meal comparison. And then I’ve expanded the FAQs to address hot topics like white rice and white potatoes, alcohol, baking with nut flours, more on the pros and cons of calorie counting.

So that’s kind of the small stuff. So now, the big stuff. In part one of the book; the why, which is food in your body, it’s been revised and I’ve included two entirely new chapters. One is called Getting Started with Paleo; and one is called Living a Paleo Lifestyle. In the chapter on getting started, I tackle the question of whether to ease into this new way of eating or dive in head first; obviously that’s more relevant for people who are new to paleo. Also given a two-page guide that provides a roadmap for starting paleo that can be used either step by step over several weeks, or you can use it to just dive in head first; just all at once. But I think that’s a big topic that people need to start to embrace, is that not everyone is a “let me do a 30-day meal plan.” Not everyone wants to do it all at once.

And I think that a lot of people will find that your friends and family who might be paleo-curious; for some of them, a big switch right out of the gate is not going to happen. It’s so intimidating and it’s so; it almost feels like you’re offending them by saying they need to stop everything they’re eating right now. So when I give you a sort of road map of, here’s where to start first, and it’s starting with changing your fats to healthier versions of the fats that you're eating, it’s a very; it’s a less heated, less emotional topic to tell someone vegetable oil is not as healthy of a choice as something else. Or even if they want to keep using a plant-based fat, that they switch to avocado and olive oil instead of canola and soybean oil. So stuff like that.

I’ve also expanded on the discussion of whether it’s necessary to follow a strict paleo diet for life in order to enjoy optimal health, or if some people may find they do quite well eating some non-paleo foods. And the question, “is it paleo?” is also addressed at length, as well as what to do if you’re currently eating a vegetarian or vegan diet and want to make the switch, because it’s not an overnight change for most people. In the chapter on paleo lifestyle, I’m also tackling some of the most common topics I’ve received questions about; and I’ll say we’ve received questions about actually here on the podcast a ton. Things like inviting friends and family to give paleo a shot, dealing with unsupportive friends and family, eating paleo with kids, and what to do about the ever-growing abundance of recipes for paleo baked goods.

I think that’s one of my favorite chapters, because I talk about dealing with unsupportive friends and family, and I give you guys the actual language that people are using with you and what it means. I translate it, and it’s sort of psychological. Because when somebody says one thing about the way you’re eating; and I think, Liz, you and I have {laughs} I think we’ve talked about this a lot on the show, when someone says, “Why aren’t you eating the bread?” like, bread is awesome, you love bread, you're not allergic to wheat or whatever. There’s a whole subtext there of what they actually mean that has nothing to do with what they just said.

Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm. Yep.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} And I’ve actually written that out. Like, I sat down and was like; “what does this really mean?” And I wrote it all out. I find it kind of humorous in a way; because when you read it, you’re like, “Oh my gosh, that is what they mean!” I think it will really connect the dots for people. So I think that’s going to be a very helpful chapter, because when you can sit back and realize that the person’s not really even talking about the food {laughs} they’re talking about how they feel about change, and how they feel about their own decisions and what they’re assuming about your take on their decisions based on what they’re eating. It’s this whole mess. But I think you guys are going to really love that section, so there’s that.

5. Updated and new meal plans [36:04]

Diane Sanfilippo: And then in part two, this I know a ton of people are getting really excited about as I start talking about it; but in the 30-day meal plans, I’m adding 3 new plans. And I think I touched on this last week, because I know you and I dove into the whole liver detox topic, and I was like great, I’ve got a whole meal plan on liver detox. But the three topics that I’ve gotten the most questions about, as well as the most, “which meal plan” questions about, are adrenal health, supporting stress management; healthy hormones, so healthy hormone balance for both men and women, and then liver detox.

And you know, as a note here, the adrenal health food plan, there’s four or five pages before the actual calendar of food that are very specific to adrenal health, but the food itself is actually the same as the athletic plan, because we’re looking to really support your body and not kind of skimp on anything. There might me a couple of nuances; and I don’t even remember, I’m in a whirlwind blur of edits to 14 different meal plans right now. I may have gone back and made a few other nuanced changes to it to include more fruits that are vitamin C rich versus some starchier fruits, things like that. But that’s one plan.

And the healthy hormones plan; I believe I have the blood sugar regulation food, which is what I used to point everyone to who was interested in, “what should I do if I’m dealing with PCOS, for example, to support my body.” So now the healthy hormones plan has tons of information, but the meals for that are really based around blood sugar regulation because, not with everyone, but with most people, most women who are dealing with PCOS, a lot of blood sugar regulation is really important for that. Of course, as you get down the rabbit hole of just more nuanced issues with PCOS, that’s slightly myopic to say blood sugar is at the root of it, but for the vast majority of women who come into this way of eating and are looking for some answers, that’s going to be a huge foundation for them.

And then the liver detox plan because; you know, we’ve been talking about that a lot more. I think it’s a topic that people are starting to become more aware of, that our liver; so we’ve gone through {laughs} we’ve gone through the questions and issues about the gut, but I think now people are realizing; oh, the liver has a lot of work to do too. And we could optimize what’s happening in our digestion, but if our liver is not working optimally, then there might be some work to do there, as well. So that plan is going to help people see tips and information on what to do for that.

And just like in the first edition, each new plan is more than just notes on what to eat for the month, and as a reminder the foundational plan for everything in the book in terms of the food colanders, it all bases from the squeaky clean plan, with modifications from there. So a huge question I’ve gotten in the last four years is, “What if I need to follow this plan and my husband needs to follow that one.” Or, “If I need to follow this, but the rest of my family doesn’t have to eat this way.” And I want you guys to know that the core of each meal plan is the same; it’s the same set of meals that are initially inputted to the plan, but then it’s modified from there.

So if, for example, in the cancer recover plan I don’t include much red meat; and that’s not because I don’t think that people who are recovering from cancer or dealing with it shouldn’t eat red meat, it’s because that’s what they’re told, so I want a plan in front of them that supports what they’re being told, because we can totally support your nutrition without red meat. It’s fine; I don’t want to give someone a plan that’s filled with steak, and immediately upon looking at it they’re going to be put off, or their doctor is going to say, “no, don’t do that.”

So, that’s a nuance that in that plan, there have been either substitutions made and notes in the day, or I just swap a different recipe in. so little things like that. Little things like adding some starchy carbs, starchy vegetables instead of non-starchy vegetables to some of the plans, like the adrenal and the athlete plan. Things like that. So when you guys look at them, and you’re concerned; “Ok, I have to follow this one, someone else has to follow that one.” Really look at what’s different; because it’s not going to be a ton unless it needs to be a ton. The autoimmune plan has probably more modifications than some of the others. It has all egg-free breakfasts, of course. If anybody needs egg-free breakfast, that’s where you’re going to look.

But the plans also; the autoimmune plan now, what I’ve done on the plan is just made a little icon note; so you might see a recipe that uses an ingredient that’s is like a nightshade ingredient, but I’ve made a little indicator so that you know when you get to that recipe there’s going to be swap you need to make, and on every recipe it’s always said from the beginning, if you’re nightshade free either swap this out or omit this or whatever.

There’s a lot going on {laughs} and my brain is like, pretty much about to explode because I’m still going through putting notes on all the recipes and things like that. So that’s kind of the update with the meal plans. Other meal plans have just been updated in terms of the food; every meal plan has different food in it now than it did in the first edition because I’m including new recipes, obviously. But they’re not 100% different. Some of the original recipes are still in those plans. So that’s that on the meal plans.

I also included a new guide to selecting a meal plan. So again, for those of you who just weren’t sure which one to follow, that should be easier for you to do. So as you’re seeing a lot of this stuff that I’m doing in terms of the updates to what was there before, it’s just about making the content and the information easier to use and understand.

I’m trying to see if there was anything else I needed update on the meal plans. I’m completely insane for writing 14 meals plans.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: Literally, if there’s one part of this book that when I first wrote it, I was like, “Nobody is going to use these.” I remember we were working on shopping lists for the meal plans, and they weren’t finalized when the book released 4 years ago, and the first week, like 2 days after the book came out, people were asking me for the shopping lists, and I was floored. Because I was convinced people were like me, in that they don’t use meal plans. And I was obviously very wrong. {laughs}

So I think I’ve had a different attitude and energy when working on these meal plans, because I know how useful people find them. And I feel even more stressed about it {laughs} as I’m working on it, to try and make sure everything is kind of; all my T’s are crossed and I’s are dotted and all that good stuff. I’ve been yapping for a long time. {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: I’m only normally caffeinated, I’m not even excessively caffeinated right now.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs} You’re only middling in your caffeination portion.

Diane Sanfilippo: I’m only to the regular range of caffeination. Questions, comments, concerns? Before I talk about the recipes? {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: No, because; so I’m not a meal plan person right now, but my favorite part about your book, and I’m pretty sure my favorite part of Cassy’s book, as well, is that you have all a lot of the lifestyle and the science and the why; along with recipes.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: And I think that’s so helpful and so important. And a lot of times, people are like; I can’t buy 50 million paleo books; please tell me the one that I need, or the two that I need.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: And it’s yours and it’s Cassy’s, I think at this point.

Diane Sanfilippo: I’m excited to tour with her; I’m excited to see her book.

Liz Wolfe: I know!

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, and for sure, the food; I actually think the food part of the plan is the least important.

Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.

Diane Sanfilippo: Because, again, like 70-80% of what people are eating with each plan is the same. So when you realize that the differences are nuanced, and that all you need to do is read through your specific recommendations; your specific; like, I list out supportive nutrients and foods that contain them .And you know, the reason I did that is because, if you’re not sure what to eat with your plan; if you’re like, well what vegetable should I have, or you just want to make a choice, you look there or you look to what I call the quick list, because I’ve highlighted a lot of the foods that are going to have those specific nutrients in them. It’s not like the food that you’d normally eat in the plan is not going to have those nutrients; but let’s just say vitamin C is especially important for your issue. Like adrenal health. Then you know if you’re look at which fruit should I eat, instead of an apple, eat an orange.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: It’s just little things like that. No seriously, though; little things like that make a difference. Or, you know, have some pineapple. Have something that has the nutrition that you need at that time. And it’s not intended to be uber prescriptive; it’s intended to just guide people and give them answers, you know. Like, I don’t know what to eat; ok, here you go. {laughs} Like, here’s a list.

And you can totally make your own meal plan. You do not need to follow what’s in here. But there is such a wide variety of foods. There’s a fair amount of seafood I use; I do cook with a fair amount of citrus, and that’s something that does help to get things like vitamin C into the meals. And so you can follow it or you don’t have to. Most of them, it’s like a dinner and most often dinner because lunch the next day, as well. So you can follow it that way. But you totally don’t have to eat the food as it’s written.

A lot of people say; it’s not enough for my family. Some people say I have too many leftovers. We’re never going to win {laughs} with exactly the portions for everyone, so you still have to think. Oh no; {laughs} you still have to think. You still have to look at how much chicken that recipe calls for, and be like; how’s that going to work with my family. Because you guys know better than I will how many servings it’s going to be based on what you eat. But yeah, there’s the notes on that.

6. Changes in the recipes [46:23]

Diane Sanfilippo: So, in terms of recipes, there are 40, I think more than 40 brand new recipes in the book. Most of those are main dishes; entrees. Most of the main dishes are using easily available, affordable proteins. Lots of ground meat being added, lots of chicken. I have some chicken breast recipes {laughs} which actually, I don’t think there was any chicken Brest in the original book. And some; what else did I add. A bunch of salads; I added a soup, a little bit of Diane’s salad madness going on in there. I added a bunch of egg-free breakfast. I added all things that people have told me over the years that would be really helpful. I added more spice blends, because you guys love the spice blends. I added some more salad dressings.

I really didn’t add much in the way of side dishes. Side dishes in our house are roasted vegetables; broccoli, oil, salt, pepper, garlic, oven. {laughs} That’s side dishes for us, so I think I added a couple, but not mostly. And I did add a bunch of, not a bunch but a handful of snacky things. So we added a spinach artichoke dip and some potato chips; a really easy oven-baked potato chips recipe, plantain chips, stuff like that that I know people fine useful. A nightshade free ketchup recipe, stuff like that. So that will be really fun and helpful.

I think about 20 recipes from the original book are getting cut; I don’t think, I know. {laughs} About 20 recipes are cut. Most of those are side dishes or sauces that were just not some of the most popular. I am going to make those available through the website, so if you’re on my email list, you’ll definitely get them. If you're not on the email list and you sign up, it will be something that I send out closer to when the new book comes out. It will just be a PDF with, you know, these are recipes that were in the first edition that are not making it into the second edition. But I think you guys will be happy with the 20 that have come out, and the 40 new ones or more actually that have come in. They're going to provide a ton more value to you, because they’re real meals. And fluffy banana pancakes, which I think everybody is basically going to buy the book just for that recipe. {laughs}

So I think you guys are going to love it. Yeah, I think that’s pretty much it. So many changes, it honestly feels like a brand new book. Most of the photos that were in the original book have been re-shot, so if it wasn’t somehow visually appealing to you the first time around {laughs} I think you guys will have a little bit of a different experience with the book this time.

And it’s funny because when the book first came out 4 years ago, Instagram wasn’t even a thing. I remember my first Instagram post I think was the summer Practical Paleo came out, because I was in Atlantic City and I think I posted a picture of some hotel or something; I don’t know, it was something totally random, but nobody was really on Instagram yet and now it’s just such this phenomenon of people taking pictures of what they’re cooking and posting it to Instagram. And none of that happened with Practical Paleo because it just wasn’t a thing back then. So I’m finding that a lot of people, either who do cook from the book just, they’ve become so used to the recipes that they don’t post about it or post a picture of the book or any of that anymore; or this new edition will kind of respark the love affair that a lot of people had with the book when it first came out.

I think a huge majority of these recipes you guys can make, and then once you make them a couple of times you don’t need to follow it through in the recipe because a lot of them are really, really easy. Some of them are a little bit trickier, but I’m excited to see people posting about what they’re cooking from this book again. Because people have said for so long how much they love it, and they love the recipes; and I’m like, I want to see what you’re making. It’s so rewarding to see people put this information literally on their plate, and be like, this is what I’m feeding my family and I’m psyched about it. That for me is probably the number one; ok, number two most rewarding thing.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: Number one is when you turn your health around. But I wasn’t somebody with a health condition, I know you weren’t either. So for us that wasn’t the revolutionary thing about paleo for us. But as somebody who had a meal business, and I realized when I had that meal business that doing it for you doesn’t; I’m not teaching you anything. So for me as a teacher, an educator, and as a home cook who has written these cookbooks; literally seeing you make this food for your family and put it on the plate and feed your family something nourishing; that’s it. I’m done. My work here is done. Super thrilled about it, especially people who have not been cooking their whole lives and this book helps bridge the gap for you and makes it easy and not intimidating; I’m pumped about it.

So I’ve said I think all there is to say about the updates. {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: {laughs} That’s all you have to say about that.

Diane Sanfilippo: There is so much. It was so much. You guys know I’m a talker. It’s why we have a podcast.

7. Rapid Fire Q&A [51:42]

Liz Wolfe: Alright, so let’s ask a couple of just rapid fire questions about the book before we wrap it up. Will it be available on Kindle?

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, it totally will. It totally will.

Liz Wolfe: Ah! {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: Kindle books though; you guys, for this book; fine, get it if you feel so compelled. It’s just not the best. And anyone who has the Kindle will tell you it’s not the best. The book is designed kind of like a textbook, and designed as something you’re going to flip to this section, use this information. But I do think that Kindle versions are helpful if you're out shopping and you forget what’s in a recipe. That said, if you’re following a meal plan, you’re going to come onto our website and grab a shopping list. But yeah, if you want to make a recipe and you just want to grab it, I think that’s where the Kindle version is helpful.

I think that the iBooks version will be a little bit more robust than the Kindle version. So if you’re somebody who does the Kindle thing, or the eReader thing and you have an iPad or a device that can read those, I would go that route, because I’m guessing it’s going to be something that looks a little more PDF-y, if that makes sense. {laughs} Where it looks more like the actual book pages as opposed to; we all know what Kindle looks like. It looks like; it looks like, I don’t even know. It looks like somebody is trying to put charts on a page and a square peg, round hole. It’s very strange. Kindle is good for reading books in my opinion. This is not a reading book. It’s a reference book. Ok, that’s what I have to say about Kindle. But yes, short story, yes. {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: {laughs} Rapid fire; that was like slow burn. Ok, will it be able to lay flat? Lie flat; lay flat?

Diane Sanfilippo: I think lay flat is the expression.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: So two things you guys have heard me say; a hardcover is coming out and a softcover; so pick your poison. Hardcover is obviously going to be a little bit more expensive. But I believe the hardcover does tend to lay flatter in general, much sturdier support to 480 pages; that’s 50 more pages than the book is now. It’s kind of insane. But, there is a new binding that’s being put on the paperback version. A new type of binding being used that is sturdier than previous bindings, and supposedly lays flatter than the previous binding. If you press it open and try and break it open, you might break the binding on any book. That’s; you’re not supposed to slam it down in the center. But that’s what I’ve heard; we have a new type of binding that should lay flatter. That’s all I know; I haven’t seen it yet. I’ll let you know when I get it.

Liz Wolfe: Alright. Have any of your opinions on nutrition and paleo changed majorly, and is that reflected in the book?

Diane Sanfilippo: I wouldn’t say any of those have changed majorly. Because I think from the beginning I’ve been a kind of moderate stance person. But I think the biggest thing that’s probably changed in 4-plus years is that I think for a variety of reasons strict paleo isn’t the way that most people need to eat for their entire lives. And what I mean by that isn’t people should just be bingeing on beer and pizza all the time, and eating junk food. I mean, eating white rice, eating non-paleo foods. Something {laughs} that’s just not paleo now and then in the overall context of a generally real food diet; and in the context of a healthy person who is not struggling with an intense autoimmune flare or just autoimmunity in general. I just think we all need to calm down and not have so much dogma around it. And I think you guys have probably gotten that on the podcast over the last several years.

But the section of the book that talks about what to do; you know, beyond a meal plan, for example, or incorporating this way of eating, way of thinking into your lifestyle and going beyond just strict paleo, that might be one of the bigger things, where I address it right in the book. So people don’t come through the book; you’re parents aren’t going to read it and be like, “well this girl is trying to tell me that I have to never eat XYZ again to be healthy,” And that’s really not what I’m proposing. It kind of never has been, but I’m just getting it out there more.

And I’m also talking more about the 4R protocol has always been in the book, which is the process by which we remove offending foods, heal the gut, and then reintroduce foods. And I think with paleo; and again we talk about this on the show a lot. We remove offending foods, right; and then a lot of people end up skipping right to step 4, which is reintroduction, and that might backfire, because you haven’t done the work that’s in between. This is something that clinical nutritionists, holistic nutritionists, we all learn about this. So if you’re anybody who has studied nutrition formally in an alternative sense; I’m not sure if registered dieticians learn about it in that program. I can’t say because I don’t know the curriculum. But we learn that we need to repair the gut lining, reinocculate. We need to actually do something other than take the food away. We need to address what’s happening.

So it’s like; you know, you’ve got a nail in your foot. You took the nail out, great, so you got rid of that problem. But did you blot the wound, did you put a bandage on it, did you put some kind of antibiotic treatment; whatever. Did we do something to actually heal the gut in between.

So my opinion hasn’t changed on that, I’ve just fleshed that out really differently so that everybody can see what we’ve been doing for the last however many years is removing and then reintroducing, and we’ve not been paying enough attention to those two middle steps. Which are actually where most of the work gets done. So that is addressed in there. And there’s that. I don’t give that much; oh, so this is the next question. {laughs}

Liz Wolfe: Yeah, next question. Do you cover white rice and potatoes in the book?

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. So I don’t give a ton of air time to this stuff. I guess pun intended; no pun intended. But white potatoes have always been paleo in my book; like, literally {laughs} they’ve always been on the list in my actual book as something I’ve considered paleo friendly. I’ve added just a couple of recipes in the book that do use white potatoes. I had one in the first book but it got cut because it just wasn’t fitting; I had too many recipes. So I talk about white rice in the FAQs. I just don’t think there’s that much of a conversation to be had. So you’ll see it addressed there, but it’s not like a chapter on white rice, because it just doesn’t require that, I don’t think.

Liz Wolfe: Okie doke. Is there any information on the macros for recipes in the book.

Diane Sanfilippo: So, this has always lived as a link through my website on http://blog.balancedbites.com/PracticalPaleo. Actually I’m not sure; I think it’s there. {laughs} it might be Practical Paleo nutrition facts, it’s like a page on the website somewhere. But we link to all the nutrition facts from the website. It’s a lot to put it in the book in terms of partially timing, partially pages starting to look a little crazy. I have a real issue with pages getting too busy and the information is hard to consume visually. It’s something that you don’t necessarily know is happening until it starts happening in the wrong direction. I’ve seen some books that are trying to fit a lot of information onto the page, and I’m already cramming a ton on there. I put a ton of notes about how to swap ingredients; more information is just going to make that page hectic.

So, partially for that reason. Partially because some people are going to come to paleo from being fat phobic, and I don’t want them to quickly flip to a recipe and freak the heck out that it’s got whatever amount of grams of fat in it. I really don’t want that to be something that’s top of mind for everyone, but for the people who do want to know; first of all, if you're following a meal plan and you flip to a recipe and it calls for 8 pieces of bacon and a quarter cup of ghee and whatever else; you know that’s probably not going to fit your meal plan if it’s obviously upon looking at it a very high fat recipe. But there are options and alternatives, and yes the information will be available through some links on the website. I believe it’s all loaded through NutritionData.com as well, so if you were to search the recipe name and the book title, I think it will come up for you in there. My team is loading that in. But those are my thoughts on that.

Liz Wolfe: The Balanced Bites podcast is sponsored in part by the Nutritional Therapy Association. The NTA trains and certifies nutritional therapy practitioners and consultants, including me, I’m an NTP, emphasizing bio-individuality and the range of dietary strategies that support wellness. The NTA emphasizes local, whole, properly prepared nutrient dense foods as the key to restoring balance and enhancing the body’s ability to heal. Nutritional therapy practitioners and consultants learn a wide range of tools and techniques to assess and correct nutritional imbalances. To learn lots more about the nutritional therapy program, go to http://www.NutritionalTherapy.com. There are workshop venues in the US, Canada, and Australia, so chances are you’ll be able to find a venue that works for you.

8. #Treatyoself: Chicken chicharrones [1:01:20]

Liz Wolfe: Let’s move on to something fun. Let’s move onto a treat yoself.

Diane Sanfilippo: Do you want me to give my treat yoself?

Liz Wolfe: Yeah, I don’t have one. {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: Ok, so on the Practical Paleo book stuff, the bacon wrapped smoky chicken thighs; here’s a weird thing about that recipe. When I first created that recipe, one of the reasons it was made the way it was made is that I bought a pack of chicken thighs that were bone in, but for some reason they were skinless. So I got them back to; I was at Bill and Hayley’s house at the time working on recipes, and I was like, what am I going to do with these skinless chicken thighs with the bone in? And I thought, well let me wrap them in bacon, because duh! {laughs} Let’s put some fat on those.

But now, most people aren’t going to find bone-in skin off chicken; right, most of the time you find it bone-in, skin on. So you’re going to peel the skin off of that, because if you were to wrap it in bacon, you’re just going to have mushy skin under the bacon, and that’s no bueno. Nobody wants that. So you peel the skin off; you season and wrap the chicken, and then you’re left with just chicken skin, which can become the most magical, as Scott called them, “chick-arrones” {laughs} like chicharrones made from chicken.

Liz Wolfe: {laughs} “Chickarrones.”

Diane Sanfilippo: You season them up, a good amount of salt, whatever other seasonings you want; bake them in the oven 375 for probably somewhere between 20 and 30 minutes. Keep your eye on them, don’t burn them. But they are ridiculous. So crispy chicken thigh skin chips.

Clip: Treat. Yo. Self.

Diane Sanfilippo: “Chick-arrones.” Something like that. They’re awesome. You guys should make them, if you make that recipe from the book make some crispy chicken skin and post it. Show me that you’re making it; tell me how it is. Love it; so good.

Liz Wolfe: Ok, well that’s it for this week then. You can find me, Liz, at http://realfoodliz.com/ and you can find Diane at http://dianesanfilippo.com. Join our email lists for free goodies and updates that you don’t find anywhere else on our website or on the podcast. While you’re on the internet, leave us an iTunes review. See you next week!