Balanced Bites Podcast

Balanced Bites Podcast: Episode #7: Soy, Goitrogens & Hypothyroid, Injuries, Emotions & Elimination Protocol, Paleo Crossfit, Autoimmune Thyroid Supplementation, Willpower and Family

Diane Sanfilippo Podcast Episodes 10 Comments

Episode #7

Opening chat: The Food Lovers new amazing cookbook is available now on “Make it Paleo.”
Check out preview/review posts on Balanced Bites here and on Cave Girl Eats here.


1: Soy, goitrogens & hypothyroid. [5:26] 2: Injuries in an endurance athlete, weight gain & stalled progress. [17:00] 3: Emotions & diagnoses; elimination protocol [24:05] 4: Paleo/CrossFit at college – how to make it work? [33:08] 5: Paleo & autoimmune thyroid; supplementation. [40:50] 6: Willpower and a family not on board. [44:10]

Click here to download the episode as an MP3.

The episodes are currently available in iTunes, StitcherBlog Talk Radio.

We're using the “Notes” after each question to link to any relevant/additional information or items we mention in our responses on the podcast and say we'll link to, but those are not anywhere near the extent of the answers we're supplying… just so you're clear on that!

[smart_track_player url=”″ title=”#7: Soy, Goitrogens & Hypothyroid, Injuries, Emotions & Elimination Protocol, Paleo Crossfit, Autoimmune Thyroid Supplementation, Willpower and Family ” artist=”Diane Sanfilippo & Liz Wolfe ” color=”00aeef” social=”true” social_twitter=”true” social_facebook=”true” social_gplus=”true” ]


LIZ WOLFE: Hi everyone, I'm Liz Wolfe, sidekick to Diane Sanfilippo of Welcome to the Balanced Bites podcast. We're in episode number 7. Diane, what's going on?

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Hey, not too much. We-I don't know. I don't have much new to report. It's actually not been that long since we recorded the last one, so…

LIZ WOLFE: It really hasn't been long.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: I think you maybe have a little more exciting news than I do today.

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah, I'll throw out a couple. I have received my review copy of The Food Lovers' Make It Paleo, which is the most spectacular cookbook of the century. I highly recommend that everybody purchase it. I mean, it's ridiculous. I mean it's one of the most beautiful cookbooks that I have ever seen, and I think it will revolutionize this movement. [laughs]

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, I actually-we were at the Ancestral Health Symposium, and I know it's funny like, we'll kind of keep talking about that. I'm so bummed that I didn't get to hang with you while we were there, but…

LIZ WOLFE: I know.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Like plane SNAFUs and whatnot, but it was just really fun because it was like the time when we all kind of met each other from like just chatting on the Internets, and then everybody came together and it was like real people, not just little avatars with square-head faces.

LIZ WOLFE: [laughs]

DIANE SANFILIPPO: But it was really cool and I definitely connected with Haley and Bill a bunch, got to preview the book, just kind of on Bill's laptop, I think. And I'm still anxiously awaiting my copy. Eee! Any minute now! But yeah, it was amazing.

LIZ WOLFE: Any minute now.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: And I- you know, we haven't really talked about it too much, but I'm also working on a book, and it's not necessarily a cookbook, but there will be recipes because there will need to be to kind of make sense for people, but I mean, after seeing their book, I was like “I don't really know if I want to [laughs] be writing recipes because how do I follow that?” It's just amazing.


DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, beautiful. The food looks delicious. I mean, the ingredients are all really, really clean. Yeah, have you poked through and kind of picked something you want to make first or are you still kind of slack jawed? Drooling?

LIZ WOLFE: I-well, I think I'm going to do a little cooking through Julia Child type of thing. Like I-oh, my dog. Excuse me, buddy. I think I want to go through every single one, actually. I could not make a determination about which one I actually wanted to make first, so…


LIZ WOLFE: I think I'll just go one by one, and blog about it. It's just phenomenal to me, you know, that somebody can be so nice and also so talented. It kind of makes me want to hate them, but I'm so desperate to be their friend as well.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: [laughs] Yeah.

LIZ WOLFE: I just-you know, can't. Yeah, it's an amazing, amazing cookbook. And it's one of those things. I think it'll be an amazing gateway book for people that may not necessarily be interested in the lifestyle in the way that many of us explain it. But just seeing it like that, I think could really be good for people who are new to the lifestyle. So I'm excited to give it a holiday gift to everybody I know.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Awesome, and yeah, I mean, I'm a-I'm not the best from cooking from recipes. Like, I kind of stink at baking, and I'm not great at following directions. But whether you're someone who's meticulous about following recipes or you just want to flip through for inspirational and look at the pictures, I mean that for me is enough to send me right in the kitchen. Like, okay, I'm going to make this, I'm inspired. Yeah, I think like they just kind of went crazy making sure the food looks really amazing, too. Actually, I think I posted up-I haven't done a review of it-but I did have a post before the book came out, just even going through some of the work that they did in putting it together, and yeah, it's definitely been a big labor of love. So I can't wait to get mine.

So if anyone's interested, they're up for pre-order. You can, I'm sure, find links through blog posts on my site or Liz's site. It's called Make It Paleo. I'll put a link in the show notes to the book and you can get that. It's like less than $20 on Amazon and Barnes & Noble, I mean, this stuff is so ridiculously inexpensive. Like you just kind of can't pass it up. Yeah. Cool.

LIZ WOLFE: And we are not paid sponsors, so just throwing that out there.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: [laughs] No. Just excited! Yeah, that's pretty much it. I still have a seminar coming up November 12th in northern NJ at CrossFit ACT, so they're open to anyone. You don't have to be a member of the CrossFit gym, you don't have to do CrossFit at all. You don't have to be any member of anything. You can just go ahead and register right through my website and come join us and learn about some of the whys about some of the stuff we talk about on this podcast and stuff that you'll hear swirling around about Paleo, whole food nutrition, etc.



LIZ WOLFE: Cool, Cool.


LIZ WOLFE: All right, well, let's jump into some questions.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, let's jump right in.

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah. Question number one. Jocelyn asks: “Hi Diane. I saw your Starbucks idea. Fabulous! I love coconut milk or oil in my coffee. Yum. I also saw your note about soy being bad for the thyroid if you’re already having thyroid problems. Can you tell me why this is so? I was recently talking to my friend the vegetarian /nurse.” These are not mutually exclusive. “she also does research on diabetes about soy vs. coconut. She was surprised to hear that soy might be bad for her already hypothyroid condition. Where can I find some good information to direct her towards? I sent her an article comparing soy and coconut, but, she was skeptical since it wasn’t written by a registered dietitian. Do you have your RD yet? I think I heard you say that you were working on it. Thanks for all the wonderful work you do. Jocelyn”

DIANE SANFILIPPO: So before I get into some information on this question, I don't have an RD. My certification is as a Certified Nutrition Consultant, and that's through Bauman College in Berkeley, California. It's not an RD certification. I'm not working on one. It's been a consideration, but I don't really think I could handle sitting in a program where I might not be able to actually answer questions and take tests that are true to what I know and believe about the science. So I don't know. I never say never. At one point I thought I would never be back to New Jersey, and yet it's something that I'm doing. So never say never, but I'm not an RD, so she may or may not listen to me, but what I will do is kind of give you my take and then also definitely point you to some resources. I'll link to the resources in the show notes, too, so you can send them on to her and you know, probably they'll get to a point where it kind of is almost too much information for her, so that'll be like, okay, I believe you because there's a lot of information out there on this stuff.

So this isn't a topic that I research day in and day out because it's not something I'm particularly as passionate about as something like digestive health, but I definitely know some things about it. Goitrogens-goitrogens are really what we're talking about when we talk about soy related to thyroid health. And they're present in foods like soy, they're also present in some levels in foods like cruciferous vegetables, not as high of levels, however. Cruciferous vegetables being like broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage. But when we talk about soy, if you're taking in too much goitrogenic material, which if you are eating soy in the way that people eat it today, it's usually processed in a much more dense form than just potentially soybeans, so some of these properties can really become condensed into like soymilk or tofu, for example. They can interfere with thyroid function, mostly by interfering with the iodine uptake. We tend to potentially have some low iodine levels just because our diets are not very rich in foods like sea vegetables, which can be very high in iodine, and so it's interesting to think about traditional diets that would have consumed soy at all. We don't really think of soy as a traditional food for this country or many countries, but mostly Asian countries. And from my studies, soy would have been consumed in very, very small quantities, mostly as a garnish, not really as a main, you know, giant hunk of tofu or chugging a cup of soymilk. But small pieces of fermented soy and in combination with sea vegetables. So in something like a miso soup, where you're getting sea vegetables and little bits of fermented soy. The miso is a fermented soy paste. So that's kind of the one side of it where it's just a known disruptor to thyroid function and primarily that we're not eating it in balance with other nutrients. So that's really everything that we talk about when it comes to the body: body functions, foods that we're eating. It's always about balance, right? We talk about omega 3/omega 6 fats, it's always about balance. Just kind of keeping your system in check.

Another reason that goitrogens can be problematic is that we also may not have enough selenium in the diet. So again these are all like different co-factors that we just need to make sure that we have appropriate levels of. So someone with a thyroid condition, typically you'll hear that some of them supplement with iodine, some don't. I'm not-I don't have information on which type of hypo or hyperthyroid condition may benefit from that type of supplementation. It's very individual. But I do know that a lot of people with thyroid conditions look to supplement with some selenium, so these are things to kind of talk to your doctor or your naturopath about. But I would say, if it's something that she's just kind of concerned about, you can also just come back to talking about how all that stuff is made. Of course, if she's concerned about her hypothyroid condition and you're kind of trying to trigger that education around well why is it important, but also, you know, just kind of have a level conversation around well, how do you do you make soymilk? Are you making that in your kitchen? Is it something that you are taking from a natural source or is it highly produced?

I mean, really you can say the same about coconut milk, too. Any of these milks, but I like to just challenge people first on that level. First, is it the closest to a real food that it can be, and then we can kind of look into more of these nitpicky details. But for some more information on some of the issues around thyroid toxins that can come from our foods, specifically from plant foods, I would definitely check out a report that Chris Masterjohn wrote called, “Thyroid Toxins: The Double -edged Sword of the Kingdom Plantae” So Plant Kingdom. I'll link to that, so that you can get to it through his blog,, Goitrogen Report is what it's called. And there's some other links as well that might be of use to her. Some more information. You know, if she only wants to hear it from an RD, that's unfortunate, but I would absolutely put the level of information and education of someone like Chris Masterjohn's going to help us out with at or above that level for sure when it comes to nutrition research. And he-no, he definitely says that there are some issues around goitrogenic foods like cruciferous vegetables, but you really have to be eating tons of them, so if you're one of those people who a known thyroid condition, and you are eating cruciferous vegetables- broccoli, cabbage, cauliflower-every meal of every day, okay, it might be good to rotate your vegetables. But it's not something that I would freak out about as much. Potentially looking to more the soy, which is for the most part not usually in our diet for any great benefit, and pretty easy to rotate out. Liz? [laughs]


DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, see those two points? We're trying hard not talk over each other, but I'm like, eh, I think I'm done. Those are my like, three dollars on that.

LIZ WOLFE: We need like Ten-Four type of thing. [laughs] That wouldn't be horrible. I think part of it is that there's a delay like between our…

DIANE SANFILIPPO: [laughs] Hmmm.

LIZ WOLFE: phone line to phone line and we find ourselves like talking and we don't actually hear the other person until it's too late, but [laughs] Yeah, as far as this goes, I just want to throw a little something in there. On the opposite extreme, you've got the soy lovers over here and the soy hates over here. The only real work of-like, the only book that I know of that really deals with this whole soy thing from top to bottom-it's called The Whole Soy Story by Dr. Kaayla Daniel. She calls herself “the naughty nutritionist.” She's probably the processed foods industry's greatest enemy when it comes to soy. And it's a real-it's on the extreme of soy is basically good for nothing in the modern diet. And it's hard not to agree with her once you've read the book. But I did think, you know, an interesting point that she makes in there that's kind of fun is that soy was actually something that was part of the diet of monks in our early cultures because it was actually something they knew would lower the male libido. So I've just always thought that was really interesting, just getting that background on soy and what it's actually kind of meant for in a historical context just really kind of cracks the case for me. But..

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah. Yeah, and you know, and we talk a lot about these things in school when it came to just traditional diets, traditional uses for different foods, and they can be very, very telling about how they affect us in the modern life. And you know, definitely, outside of thyroid effects, soy just having estrogenic effects and you know, men who kind of ask me about soy, I'm like “well there are some known estrogenic promoters in soy and I'm not sure that men ever want to be promoting estrogen.” So that usually nudges them in the right direction. But yeah, looking back at traditional uses of foods I think is always a good way to kind of just step back and be like, why are we doing this to the food? You know, I mean, soy milk is not really milk, and hey, you know, I used to use it, so. [laughs] I kind of…


DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, well, we've done it all, and then we learned better and we do something different. So hopefully these links will help her out, and absolutely, she's got a thyroid condition. I mean, she really needs to be avoiding things that could at all be triggering issues with that. I think did she ask also about any other information for her hypothyroid condition? I mean, I definitely have more information on hypothyroid and kind of dealing with it, and you know, she needs to absolutely be gluten free. There are known autoimmune triggers of hypothyroid. We don't know if she has an autoimmune hypothyroid condition, but most hypothyroid we see today is autoimmune. So making sure that her vitamin D level is adequate, supplementing if she needs to, and also keeping her inflammatory state in check, so she's eating omega 3 rich fish, possibly supplementing with that, maybe looking into some botanical things like resveratrol, green tea extract, maybe some pine bark. Those are things that you can research, get some dosages from like a naturopath or nutrition consultant, for example. And just see if there are some other ways to keep your body in balance, but yeah, definitely, I would be supportive of her, and try and just nudge her into the right direction. All right, ten four.

LIZ WOLFE: All right. Next question. Michelle asks: “I am suffering from a hamstring injury in both legs.” So it sounds like two hamstring injuries. “Was and am an endurance athlete..I’m 5’2 and was 114 now probably up to 116…Have moved to a Paleo low carb diet because I am not able to do much in the way of exercise..Instead of finding that it keeps the weight down I feel as though I am gaining weight..I’ve done the low carb thing before and also found that to be the same..As well as having feelings of constipation.” Let's see, “As my exercise increases I also get hungry and am at a loss as what to say” I'm sorry, this is-I'm going to make this one run-on sentence here. You're going to have to pardon me.” As my exercise increases I also get hungry and am at a loss as what to snack on when I am hungry…one can only eat so many nuts…I do eat some fruit , not really any grains..some sweet potato..and some carbs around exercise..Just at a loss as to why I would gain weight..when those around me who go on the no sugar diets all seem to lose weight..I just get grumpy and feel fat! Being my height, I really don’t want to add any weight. I’ve also adopted the CrossFit mindset and workouts in regards to training so that I don’t re-injure myself… thanks for the help… you guys rock!” And now here's a little bit on food.


LIZ WOLFE: Okay, go ahead.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: No, I was just going to say like, one thing we've added to our questions is that we're getting a lot of this background information, but then I've added in some stuff where I ask people to kind of fill in what are you eating currently and what are some cheats? Just because, you know, it gets to the point where I'm like, ahhh, I'm going to need a lot more information. So yeah. So she kind of goes through how she already explained her food, pretty clean. Not much in the way of starch or sugars. No grains, occasional cookies. But I eat fairly clean and probably not enough. Which is funny, like when-this is-I always think it's funny when people…you give them the opportunity to really tell you their story and they really tell it, so…

LIZ WOLFE: Mm-hmm.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: She might be telling her own story here. Supplements:-glutamine, carnitine, right now a b-complex. I have some osteopenia, sleep is less than adequate due to stress of injury not healing. I'm a letter carrier and returning to work after being out for a few months due to the hamstring tendons, which are still not healed. Her cheats-occasional coffee creamer and an after dinner cookie, which is again, not often anymore. She tried the sugar detox that I have, felt terrible, tired, irritable, weak, no energy. Just at a loss and not having weight loss even when keeping sugar at a minimum.

So she's got a lot of stuff going on here. Like, my very, very first just glaring thing was at 5'2″, 114-6 pounds, I mean, I don't know what this looks like for her, but that does not sound like a weight issue. I think a lot of times we just have a really strange view of what's happening with our bodies. And, you know, sounds like she's pretty petite, and so a couple of pounds can really, you know, can really feel like a lot. I mean, I know at 5'4″, 5 pounds for me is kind of a lot. So definitely not discounting her concerns, but I would love to see what this really looks like to help gauge potentially how realistic she's being or how potentially hard she's being on herself around that. I would really, really have her focus on, you know, if she's moving away from some of this endurance activity to more of a CrossFit type of workout, where she's got shorter workouts, maybe more intense, short periods of time, making user that you're resting enough. Because if you've got this go-go-go, you know, do it all and doing more is better mindset, that's not really going to be beneficial A. to healing your injuries or B. to fat loss. Really getting your fat loss to move in the right direction requires your system rebalance and just evens out. There's some kind of weird plumbing thing happening in my apartment.

So, you know, I'm not really sure when you talk about occasional heats being an after-dinner cookie, we know that continuing to irritate your system with gluten-containing grains, especially-we have no idea how much irritation that's causing to where your body might hold on to weight. You know, you've got an immune response that might be happening until you take yourself to the level where you're going to be 100% , you know, clean for maybe a few months and just see what that does to reset your system. I wouldn't be as focused on keeping the starches and sugars in terms of fruit, in this case, I would say. I wouldn't be as concerned about keeping that stuff low as I would around getting the irritating foods out. So keeping that gluten completely out, not using flavored coffee creamer, which is not really food. Again, these are some little things that if you weren't coming to me with issues, I would say, “well, if that's working for you, then, fine, go on your merry way.” But I would definitely, definitely focus on that, getting some of that really cleaned up, focusing on your sleep and stress levels primarily because a lot of these other issues are very highly related to just over-stressing the body. That's-that's it for me.

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah, I like what you said about just eliminating those irritating foods. That you really just don't know what kind of mileage you're going to get from that, such that it could literally be 99% of the equation for some people.


LIZ WOLFE: So, yeah.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: And especially like, when you know you just have a couple of pounds, you know? But I just feel like you know, you can't get your even sort of horizon line while you're still eating things that, you know, Paleo or not, like I-we come out of whatever nutrition education, I'm working with clients, and we know that there are gluten, dairy, soy. Those things are known to be irritating to a lot-a lot of people, so I just-there's no reason to not get that out completely and to see where your body lands. Yeah. Who's up next?

LIZ WOLFE: Oh, let's see. Are you getting sirens? That's the beauty of living in San Francisco.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: I'm getting sirens, you're getting sirens.

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah, and you can hear the dogs barking out here.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: No, but I've been-I've been in the ‘burbs of New Jersey recording for awhile where it's like, I mean, you could hear a pin drop outside there…


DIANE SANFILIPPO: And I come back to my apartment in San Francisco. It's pretty loud here. Yeah. All right.

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah. We do what we can. Okay, Christa asks: “I’m listening to your first podcast and I was really intrigued by your willingness to offer perspective on the emotional side of eating. For that reason, I thought I’d throw this question to you.

My mom is diagnosed with Celiac disease and Hashimoto’s autoimmune thyroid. She’s been strict gluten free for 8 years now (since diagnosis). She was also diagnosed with a fructose intolerance by the folks at University of Maryland Celiac Center after some of her GI symptoms failed to fully resolve. She does OK as long as she doesn’t eat any fruits bigger then a strawberry, and limits the quantities of what she does have.

She’s been working with a functional medicine doc (a friend of Dr. Kharrazian’s) for the last year on her thyroid issues. She was making some good progress initially, but seems to have stalled in the last few months, and is not looking or feeling as good as she would like. On her latest blood work, TSH was very high (low teens, I think), TPO antibodies were very high and CRP was high.

Having been trained in functional medicine myself, I suggested that she is still having systemic inflammation and active autoimmunity, so she is in all likelihood having gluten-cross reactivity to something still in her diet and that her best bet is a trial of strict Paleo- no grain, legumes, diary, nuts, nightshades or eggs for a month” Basically, an elimination diet. “and then slowly add any of the 3-4 and see how she feels. While she has finally resigned herself to needing to do this, her initial reaction was, “but I’ve already given up so much!”

Can you ladies offer any suggestions for overcoming this emotion? It’s not the first time I’ve encountered this sentiment when advocating for a Paleo diet. I myself am Paleo and I don’t find myself feeling deprived at all, so I’ve found it difficult to overcome this objection. I’m working on a theory that people who react this way are not so handy in the kitchen, so they lack creativity in thinking of different things to eat while staying Paleo. (This is highly theoretical though, based on just two people.) So any of your tips for addressing this concern are greatly appreciated!!”

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Oh, it's a really, really good question. She's got a lot of specific medical conditions just kind of going on, and she's not really asking us to address that or resolve any of that because she knows-Christa knows like what would be a really great approach for her. My sort of reaction or lifestyle-life coach approach to that reaction of a “But I've already given up so much!” Mostly, I tend to tell people the approach that we're going to take, it's probably not going to be for forever. You know, it's just for a period of time, it's just to see what your body is doing, and let's just see where we can get because how amazing would it be if you feel better and have good results doing something that's different. Like, you've been doing it this for however much time, let's try something else. And, you know, again, we don't have any lack of food in this country. Like the bread will always be there. These foods will always be there when the time comes for you to see how they do in your body again. But given her, maybe, just the timeline of like, okay, let's do it for this long and I think for this serious of a condition, with, you know, if she's been diagnosed with Celiac and, you know, she might have some other, if she's got that autoimmune hypothyroid with the Hashimoto's, giving it at least like 3 months is probably the best approach, and probably getting some of the you know, Paleo cookbooks we're talking about, and, you know, if she's not that into cooking, you know, keep it simple for her.

Show her what food can be with a simple meal plan and maybe kind of sit down with her-and this is something that we definitely do with my coaching. Like I don't always give somebody a meal plan. A lot of times it's kind of sit down, like here's a whole list of foods that are great foods for you or hopefully they think, great foods for you. Let's talk about what you can eat. Like, you tell me what you're going to eat. Like, if you're not going to have eggs for breakfast or cereal or anything like, what do you think you could have for breakfast? And maybe you have a couple of ideas, so that you're not coming to the table with nothing, but let that person tell you what sounds good to them, and this way, they're creating that plan for themselves, rather than you dictating this is all you can have. This way they see, oh, this is a possibility and it's really not quite as daunting. So I think, definitely that's a good approach and also just really helping them to see that the super strict approach may not be for forever, but when you have an autoimmune condition, it's like, this is your choice. You know, this is your choice to figure out, you know, how healthy you want to stay, and especially with celiac and Hashimoto's, like the gluten thing? Gluten is a never, but what you're saying about cross-reactivity, absolutely. Eating any grains at all-that can easily-very easily- be cross-contaminated with or cross-react with the gluten. It's a huge, huge issue. So, don't know if more testing from like Cyrex Labs would be useful for her, to see some more quantifiable information on that, but yeah, those are kind of my thoughts on how to approach it.

LIZ WOLFE: Cool. Yeah, I-like, I like the idea of-I think it's really cool that she's asking this question because with everything that's going on medically, it would be really easy to just forget about the mental/emotional kind of meta-aspect of things, which is something that I think kind of tends to happen. Kind of the worse diagnosis, the less we think of the underlying, you know, brain-body type, you know, connection that's there. So I really like this question.

So I'll just throw in a little aspect of that. I really think that a lot of these things. I think meditation can be really, really helpful in managing chronic physiological conditions. You know, I'm not a doctor, obviously I can't for that as like a prescription for something, but I've found it really, really helpful. And I've read a little bit about this type of treatment, this type of approach with things like Crohn's Disease, stuff like that. So I think that's kind of a missing component a lot of times in some regimens because I think there's a biochemical type of stress reaction that can really exacerbate conditions like this, so if she's experiencing a lot of stress from feeling like she's giving up so much, or things aren't getting better, things are getting. That's just kind of whole feed forward type of situation when it comes to pressure and whatnot.

So, for me personally, I would just try and flip to the other side of the coin, if I hear somebody say, “I've already given up so much,” really, to me that means, I haven't explored enough. You now? Because there is so much at our disposal. So much, and I think that's kind of where, for example, the cookbooks, like you said, Make It Paleo is four hundred and fifty pages of delicious, you know, whole foods recipes. I mean, you couldn't-you literally could not do that in a year. You know, if you did one every single day. So again, yeah. Flip side of the coin.
And I really do think that some people who are dealing with more diagnoses than maybe the average person, they also have a phenomenal opportunity to be healthy as it's required of them for their condition, but some of us will never pay that much attention to the state of our bodies, because we're not necessarily dealing with different diagnoses. So, I mean, you know, the mental part's tough, but I think those are a couple things to maybe think about.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, I think, you know, navigating cookbooks too when you are looking at more specific details of autoimmunity can be tricky because then there are those whole lists of other ingredients that are considered healthy in Paleo, but those with autoimmune conditions really need to stay away from. That's part of why I'm going to be doing what I'm doing with the book that I have coming out where, you know, there will be a little bit more details and specifics on what those people can be eating or how to kind of make changes to recipes to make them workable, but yeah, I think your approach is definitely, yeah, a good thing to consider as well.

LIZ WOLFE: Cool. All right.


LIZ WOLFE: Yup, okay. Kris asks: “Hey Diane and Liz, I’m one year away from going to college and I'm really nervous about how I am going to be able to maintain the Paleo lifestyle while away from home for a whole year. I regularly CrossFit and have been Paleo since June 2011. I have been overweight my whole life and am now finally getting it under control so obviously I have some insulin problems. By time college comes around (fall 2012) I will be at my maintaining weight. My tentative plan is to try to eat out as much as possible at places like Whole Foods, Chipotle and such so that I can eat food that is as clean as possible but that can get expensive. Unfortunately I don’t have an apartment with a kitchen. I will be in a dorm that only allows a mini fridge, so I’m thinking of stocking up on deli meat. I’m also thinking I’m going to have to rely on stuff like PaleoKits but I try eat minimal nuts and fruits if at all because I gain weight quickly.

Do you all have any ideas on what I should plan to do when college comes around so that I will be able to maintain my new healthy weight and the Paleo lifestyle I have now adopted? P.S. hopefully I’ll be in Austin so if you know of any Paleo friendly restaurants I would love to hear about them.” Cool.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Well, I don't know specifically about Austin, but people can kind of chime in and comment. Maybe they'll have some ideas for you. But it's been awhile since I've been in college, [laughs] but I was kind of thinking back to, you know, what were the accessible foods, and I'm wondering what kind of dining hall situation might exist? I remember specifically making lots of salads and kind of having salads with meat and I was not even eating Paleo or very healthy, though I did always love making salads at the dining hall. So that seems to definitely be one option, kind of see what's there. I think those are usually pretty accessible, even if the prepared foods are not looking like the best option for you.

If you've got a fridge in the room, and you're going to Whole Foods, you're going to any grocery store, you don't need to stress about it being the very best, top quality it can be. If you just want to make sure you're getting in good food and not irritating food, just avoiding the pizza and the beer, but getting in protein, good fats and veggies, then buying stuff like a whole roasted chicken and keeping that in your fridge and eating that for several meals. Snack on that, getting some little plastic baggies and filling them up, like putting real food snacks in your backpack. You can also do stuff like the wild canned salmon. Those are things you can keep in the form and olives for snacks. Things like some coconut flakes here or there, and, you know, salad greens. Just the things you could stock up.

I was thinking about this in terms of when I travel and I'm in a hotel, and I have a mini-fridge, what do I put in there? And I almost always do some kind of salad greens and just like throw stuff on top of it. Like, you know, guacamole. I don't think there's a Trader Joe's in Austin, but you can probably find some pretty clean guacamoles that are already prepared or just make some. Just buy an avocado. You don't need a real kitchen to do that. Just kind of mash it up with some lemon, salt and pepper. It's a really simple approach. And just, you know, keep stuff in the fridge that you can kind of grab and snack on,. That's really what I would say for kind of your best bet. It sounds like you know what to look for otherwise. But I wouldn't worry too much about it. This is really the same thing that obviously, those of us who have a kitchen, when we travel, you know, we need to figure out what to do and so it's less than ideal to feel like you're traveling all the time, it's not going to be forever. And maybe this is what you focus on for your next housing situation next year, that you do have a kitchen. You know? And so you just go with it this year, do the best you can, and just try not to stress about it too much. More ideas?

LIZ WOLFE: Ten-four. Over and out?

DIANE SANFILIPPO: [laughs] Do you have some more ideas for her? Or him? I can't tell with Kris with a “K.” So.

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah, well, first of all, I'm jealous that she's going to be in Austin because that is an awesome, awesome city. I am a Kansas Jayhawk forever, love Lawrence, Kansas, but Austin definitely rivals Lawrence in culture. I'm thinking a little …

DIANE SANFILIPPO: I can't hear you at all.

LIZ WOLFE: Oh, you can't?

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Hello? Nope. Now I can hear you.

LIZ WOLFE: Are you there?


LIZ WOLFE: This is going to be the worst podcast, D. You're going to be freaking out.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: [laughs] Okay. We're like, Liz is in a closet and her phone cuts. No, I'm kidding.

LIZ WOLFE: [laughs] No, this is a disaster.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: I couldn't hear any of that. Any of that last bit.

LIZ WOLFE: All right, I'll start over. I was just basically saying that Austin is awesome and it….

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Oh, I heard that part. [laughs]

LIZ WOLFE: Second only to Lawrence, Kansas. Rock Chalk, Jayhawk. I'll say that part twice.


LIZ WOLFE: But I was just thinking kind of about-I wish that I knew about CrossFit and Paleo and all that good stuff when I started college. Because I did not start college with a framework for knowing what's good and what's not, you know? Like I think I bounced from coffee and cigarettes to low fat dairy to, you know, vegetarianism and etc., etc. But when you start with that framework, that is a super powerful thing that will color your choices. And being someone that's into CrossFit, I think that there's a huge support system just built in with that. Austin is like a thriving CrossFit, you know, Mecca and just surrounding yourself with like-minded people is going to enable good choices and is also going to open up ideas and options, places to go that maybe you didn't know about before. So that's kind of where I come down on that. I think that Kris is more set up for success than she realizes, just thinking back on my college experience, so…

DIANE SANFILIPPO: I think you're probably right. Yeah. I wish I had that, too. I definitely did not. I went into college like athlete who was then not athletic anymore, and man, wish I had found CrossFit. I think CrossFit was barely born when I was in college [laughs], so I would not have had too much luck with that. Interestingly enough, I also-I'm doing a seminar in Austin in January, so if you want to come join us, check it out, I'll be at CrossFit and Fearless, let's see, January 14th. So that might be cool. You'll definitely meet some people who are obviously interested in Paleo nutrition, so people will love finding other like-minded people, especially-even if you don't train at that gym, definitely come check it out. So yeah.

LIZ WOLFE: Yeah. I like it.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: She's better off than she thinks.

LIZ WOLFE: Definitely. Definitely. And the dining halls, you know, there are definitely ways to keep that mini-fridge kind of stocked, like you said, with stuff that will work in a pinch. I mean, obviously, I'm biased that I love PaleoKits. I think that's a good option, you know, if you're on the go, but yeah, she'll do good. She'll do well, excuse me. She will do well.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: [laughs] Nice, Liz, nice.

LIZ WOLFE: All right. Next question. Sophie. Sophie asks “I am about to start the Paleo diet and I was wondering what do you recommend for someone who has an autoimmune disease(Hashimoto's thyroiditis in this case) any supplements etc… Any food to avoid.” Kind of a second angle to what we were talking about before.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah. Yeah. And I just kind of left this one in here too because I wanted to just reiterate again some of the stuff around Hashimoto's and just kind of make sure that she feels we were answering her question, too here, because it is stuff that we answered kind of previously. But your recommendations really for Hashimoto's, when it comes to starting a Paleo diet, your main thing is really to stick to it. You know, do-for thyroid conditions, getting rid of the gluten, since it is the biggest issue and when you go grain/legume/dairy free, you're doing everything you really need to do to manage that the best that you can at that point.

As far as any supplementation, I did already talk about that. I wouldn't stress too much, but make sure you are working with a doctor who knows about what you're doing with your diet and see if you can find someone who is well versed, maybe check out the Paleo Physicians Network. I think in Arizona in Scottsdale, I think Garrett Smith. He might be pretty close by, I'm not exactly sure what town he's in. But he could be helpful and see if you do want to do anything around selenium supplementation, those kinds of things that might be useful. but otherwise remaining gluten free is just your biggest barrier and I would download the guide that I have. Make it a priority when you do dine out at all, just to make sure that you're really keeping that strict gluten free. You don't want to be pushing that autoimmune response further. And if you haven't read Dr. Kharrazian's book Why do I Still Have Thyroid Symptoms When My Lab Tests are Normal? I would definitely check that book out for more on Hashimoto's. Yeah, not too much more here for her, you know. Just kind of quick. But I just wanted to kind of bang that one out and make sure that she was addressed.

As far as other questions for today, I think we had this one more that we can hold off on for now. Did you-we have a little bit more time and we had a couple more questions that we were looking at. Do you want to address one of these other ones or do you kind of want to wrap it up for now?

LIZ WOLFE: You know, I think that….

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Or we could just chat.

LIZ WOLFE: We could wrap it up maybe with this lovely connection that I've got here, and hopefully I can get that taken care of. Unless there is-I know I had one kind of about the willpower thing that we could do real quick or…If you could hear me okay.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah. Yeah, I can hear you.

LIZ WOLFE: We could launch into that real quick.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah. We can do that.

LIZ WOLFE: Good deal.


LIZ WOLFE: All right, we'll do this one and then we'll wrap it up. All right, this one is from Jamie. “I used to have really strong willpower but it seems to have diminished lately. Through healthy eating & exercise I lost 80 pounds but now it’s such a struggle to continue doing what I know needs to be done and what makes me feel best. I’m at 188 and don’t care about a certain number, I just want to feel good again.

I keep falling in the trap of eating junk. I know it’s my choice but it is very difficult when my husband is not into this lifestyle and I have to live with all the chips, candy, etc around. In the past I’ll go super strict with myself for a few months and then fall apart. ” And Jamie, you're not alone in that. At all. “I’m in that fall apart cycle again. How can I finally beat this emotional roller coaster and maintain the healthy habits I know how to follow and make me feel my best? How can I avoid the junk around here for good (he wants me to buy it for him). I know once it’s out of my system I don’t usually care for it. It’s even a struggle to get good sleep. My husband doesn’t understand that I need lots of sleep and a dark room. I feel like I’m fighting myself as well as another person to live this way.”

And I-I wanted to do this question because I think this is so common for people. It's so, so hard because you've got two people who are living their lives together and it's not like, you know, you're asking your husband to support you in a heroin habit. You know? This is good lifestyle choices. And there may be a whole variety of reasons that he's entrenched in a different way of life and unwilling to move forward. But he's just got to look at it as he's got two choices. He can choose the world, the commercial products, the things that other vested interests want you to choose, not for your own good, but for their pockets. You just have to look at it that way vs.,. these other choices that are just for you and nobody else. And you're not beholden to any company or any producer. It's just that kind of try. And maybe framing it that way could be helpful. A lot of times, I personally thought, you know, “Hey, I want to eat this. It's part of what makes me happy,” or “I want to watch a movie, you know, in bed, before falling asleep.” Regardless of what it was going to do to my sleep. It's just one of those things where all of those desires were simply representative of me being unconsciously beholden to somebody else, some other company that didn't have my best interests in mind. So framing it that way, I think, is helpful.

But I would also say that sometimes people are only there for you insofar as you continue to fulfill what their vision of you is, so you know, as long as you're still in that place where they have kind of set you up in their life, they're okay. But if you're not okay, then that's a problem. And that's something where your spouse really has to kind of find it in his soul to move forward with you. And I just-I really believe that everybody has that desire in them to move forward and have a good life. It's just that for some, it takes a little bit more rubbing, you know, a little more convincing to kind of throw off those shackles. Am I making sense, Diane?

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, and I mean, I don't have a spouse. And this definitely sounds to me like a really tough situation…


DIANE SANFILIPPO: And it's one of the reasons why, in looking at finding someone one day for myself that will be, I don't know, that I'll get married and have a husband, but some sort of partner at some point, who knows. I don't know. But it's like, wow, you know at least with my lifestyle now? I would need that person to be on board with it, and how, you know, how hard it must be to maybe not have this lifestyle at first, and then make the change. And it is-it's such positive change, like you said, it's not like you're asking to have a heroin addict supported.


DIANE SANFILIPPO: It's healthy changes, and it just makes me-it would make me sort of question, like, I don't know how much time it's been, she's been trying to get him to come around or at least be supportive of her. I do deal with this with some of my clients now and then who have, not always unsupportive spouses, but just spouses who aren't doing the same thing that they're doing, even if they're not necessarily trying to sabotage them in any way. But that's just kind of-honestly, this kind of breaks my heart a bit. I'm like, I don't know what else it matters n a relationship with someone who's trying to support the betterment of that other person. So, you know, it might be easy to say things like that because I'm not-I don't have a partner or spouse right now.

You know, it's easier to say things sometimes when you don't have kids, but I do honestly believe that in my heart that if you have a partner in your life, it's part of what they're there for, it's to help you to live a better life, and I don't know. So it could mean that this requires getting a little more therapy going or something where you're really opening communication to have him understand why this is important to you and it's not just about “I'm not eating bread.” It's about “I care so much to take care of my health, and I would hope that you love and care about me enough to want that for me, too.” You know? I mean, that sounds kind of heavy and deep and getting into some issues, but whatever it is, like, who knows what's getting in his way of kind of allowing that. And a lot of times, it is just, you know, emotional ties to food and people feeling that sense of entitlement. Like what you were saying, “Oh, I still want to eat this because I feel like I deserve it” or you know, no one's going to tell me not to. But I think there's just a lot of things to kind of look into with that, and I don't know.

I really think, if not getting your spouse on board with what you're doing, in terms of the actual habits, I think on some level the spouse needs to get on board with the fact that you're trying to take of yourself, you know what I mean? And that's…

LIZ WOLFE: Mm-hmm.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: I mean, it's not-it's really selfish of them to get in the way, quite frankly. So and all sorts of…

LIZ WOLFE: I agree. And also I think you should really stand in your power. Like I've said that before, and it just seems so cheesy, man. The first time I heard that phrase, I thought that is so nerdy. But really, you have the choice of being sad and feeling a little bit victimized or kind of depressed about this situation and hopeless. Or you can take it, like we were talking about the flip side of the coin, you can say, this is how I'm living my life. I would love for you to be on board. You-you're the wife, AKA you're the boss, so you can say, if you want to mess with your computer or read before bed, you're going to go in the other room. You know? If you want that candy, you buy it for yourself, but if I find it, I'm throwing it out. You know, you can do this. Be proactive.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Oh, absolutely. How can I avoid the junk when, you know, he wants me to buy it for him? So what he wants you to buy it for him. If he wanted you to buy him cigarettes or heroin, would you? I mean, you know, if you're enabling the situation, not only are you enabling him to eat garbage, but you're then enabling a more difficult situation for yourself. Like if I find bread in the refrigerator at my parents' house? I throw it away. I'm like, I don't know. I don't care who's it was. I don't care who gets mad, I don't care who's it was, I don't care if they blame each other. I really couldn't care less. I don't want that stuff in the house, so I've done it. I've thrown it away. It could have been my uncle's. Whoever's it was, nobody needs it, so it's going in the garbage. You know?


DIANE SANFILIPPO: So at some point, you just have to be stronger, I guess, and like you were saying, just kind of
hold it. Hold that line.

LIZ WOLFE: Definitely. Phew, all right. Ten-four. Over and out?

DIANE SANFILIPPO: and you know, not that…Yeah, I was going to say one more thing. And that was like not the first time I've heard someone not understanding “I need sleep in a dark room.” I've had clients where they're not even sleeping in the same room as their spouse because of that…

LIZ WOLFE: Mm-hmm.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: And it's like, we really need to have conversations about that stuff. People really need to address that. Like, we are not relationship therapists, but come on, like people need to be talking and get on the same page with these things because if you're, yeah, if you're not on the same page there, things are just going to be destroyed. [laughs]

LIZ WOLFE: For sure, and sometimes you've just got to make yourself do it. You've got to make yourself say that first sentence. You probably don't want to start the first sentence with “I hate you right now,” you know? “I'm judging you right now.” But, you know, make yourself say it. “We need to have a real frank discussion right now.”


LIZ WOLFE: “And you're going to hear me out, and then I'll listen to what you have to say. I'll still be right, but, you know, we can have this out.”


LIZ WOLFE: [laughs] Relationship advice from Liz, yeah.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Yeah, all right, cool. Well, I think we've significantly dropped her property value today enough.

LIZ WOLFE: [laughs]

DIANE SANFILIPPO: No, honestly, actually I think people do seem to really appreciate this type of advice from us.


DIANE SANFILIPPO: The slightly more female point of view. Slightly softer or emotional side of things. But as much as we offer that, I think we both have the-we both have the conviction that we deserve a certain way of living or a certain life or being treated a certain way.

LIZ WOLFE: Mm-hmm.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: So as much as we recognize struggles with the emotional sides of things, we don't want people to let themselves become, you know, victims of their situation.

LIZ WOLFE: Definitely.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Like everyone has to make these choices and drive their own life, so yeah. All right, well, we can wrap this one up and talk to everyone next time.

LIZ WOLFE: All right everybody, peace out, man. And I'll talk to you next time.

DIANE SANFILIPPO: Peace. All right, later.





Diane & Liz

Comments 10

  1. Love the podcast! Re: Paleo-friendly restaurants in Austin (for college students– and–ahem– “older” folks like me too–check out Snap Kitchen. They offer a full menu of Paleo and “Paleo-style” (translation: vinegar is included in the ingredients) of reheatable breakfasts, lunches, snacks and dinners to go. You can store them in your dorm fridge and microwave them when you’re ready to eat. No fake ingredients included, and they vary their veggie sides seasonally. Bonus: they also carry Paleo Kits, Paleo Crunch, etc. Enjoy!

  2. Just a heads up Diane… I am NOT seeing this available in iTunes… all the rest have and still are. Robb Wolf’s latest podcast has shown up too… any ideas? Is it just my MAC?

  3. I wish I had the guts to throw my parents bread in the garbage, lol.

    However, my lifestyle has had a HUGE effect on how they live today. And, now my brother. Ah, how lucky I am 😉

  4. Thanks for another interesting podcast.

    However I have to say I disagree with your advice to the final question. I’m in a similar situation in that my spouse has no interest in joining my attempt to follow paleo diet recommendations, preferring to stick to an “everything in moderation” philosophy. However, it has never occurred to me that I have the right to determine how my spouse should eat, or throw away food belonging to someone else. I would certainly be very annoyed if someone did that to me, especially if they were openly doing it with only their own interest in mind rather than mine! If I am tempted to eat my spouse’s snack food that is my problem, not hers! I think it’s better to “evangelise” by example rather than demanding someone adopt your own opinions and “convert” before they are honestly convinced in their own mind.

    I can completely see where you’re answer was coming, and I actually really appreciate that you gave an honest, controversial answer rather than playing it safe. I just thought it was worth pointing out the alternative point of view on this particular issue.

  5. Unless you have more information than listeners got on the second question, I don’t understand your answer. I never heard Jamie say her husband was intentionally sabotaging her. She just said he didn’t want to eat the same was she does.

    My dh isn’t paleo, but it really hasn’t caused any problems for us. Granted, we were already eating a whole foods (WAPF) diet before I switched to a primal diet so there really isn’t a lot of junk food around the house, but he does still eat several things that are not paleo-friendly. I just don’t eat them. I couldn’t imagine telling me spouse he wasn’t allowed to eat certain foods or throwing away something that belongs to him or any other adult.

    If Jamie really can’t deal with buying snacks for him I think it is perfectly acceptable to ask him to get them himself. She could also ask him to keep them in a specific cupboard that she doesn’t ever open. However, trying to force him into the paleo lifestyle would be counterproductive. Watching me lose weight and have more energy has gotten my dh pretty interested in paleo–much more so than if I had nagged him or tried to force him to change his diet.

    I really wish you would have spent at least part of your answer actually discussing the issue of willpower. Even if Jamie manages to force/convince her husband to switch to a paleo diet she will still face temptation at work, out with friends, at family gatherings, etc. I really enjoy the podcast and get a lot of good information from listening to it. I hope you will address the issue of willpower in a future podcast.

  6. If you are looking for good information on dieting and fitness check out my link, I am a serious athlete on a budget. So I find ways to eat and train right without breaking your bank.

  7. Hi, I’m a huge fan of your podcast, and you directed me to your archives when I suggested the topic of coexisting with a non-paleo spouse. I found this and listened just now, and was pretty alarmed by your response. Long story short, I agree with Nicolas H & Kristin’s comments. To hear that you have literally gone into your parents’ home – another adult’s home, THEIR HOME – and thrown away their bread – I repeat, thrown another adult’s private property into the trash – made my jaw hit the floor. I can’t imagine being so entrenched in a nutritional philosophy that I would disrespect another person like that – especially my spouse or family!

    Before I question whether or not to continue my Thursday ritual of listening to your podcast which I’ve loved so much, I’m keeping in mind this aired 3 years ago. Now I’m not sure, but I thought I have heard in more recent episodes that, Diane, you’re now married (or in a serious relationship)? I’m just curious if after all this time, if you may have any new insight on this scenario.


    1. Post

      Hi Amanda- I’m just seeing this comment now in the archives. New insights? Meaning would I still do this in my parents’ home? Yes, I would. In someone’s home I do not know or are not my parents? No. I think it’s a tough call here for you to judge my actions without knowing my relationship with my family, specifically with my parents, and the entire scenario around the action that I took as well as our relationship and history. But I appreciate the feedback and hope you’re still a listener. It’s fair for our listeners to not always agree with our actions, but we put ourselves out there, every week, in hopes that what we teach helps someone every day.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *